^^^ Wow, the numbers are here even sooner than I thought. Anyhow, Murch, you'll notice that despite the united and planned buyathon on April 15th, HD DVD still failed in overtaking overall sales from Blu-ray given last week actions. And this was even a week with a lapse in Blu-ray releases. Proof is in the numbers...from a dataset that represents the majority of the market and not some PR campaign for the HD DVD group.
Also, on the Wal-mart note, I found this quote rather damning of the HD DVD hopes and speculation...
Quote:
Melissa O'Brien, senior manager, corporate communications, merchandise, said the chain would carry Sony's new Blu-ray player when it is released...Meanwhile, reports surfaced that the retailer had ordered 2 million Chinese-made HD DVD players for $100 million. O'Brien not only denied the existence of any such order, but also added the report was false.
Keep in mind a lot of the April increase in HD DVD activity was precipitated by the availability of The Matrix Trilogy pre-orders. That is where Amazon can inflate "sales" making one format look like it's doing greater than it really is.
When we look at actual sales we'll find the numbers a bit more static for both platforms.
Quote:
Melissa O'Brien, senior manager, corporate communications, merchandise, said the chain would carry Sony's new Blu-ray player when it is released...Meanwhile, reports surfaced that the retailer had ordered 2 million Chinese-made HD DVD players for $100 million. O'Brien not only denied the existence of any such order, but also added the report was false.
You're inventing controversy where none exists. I never bought into the Wal-Mart deal as a done deal but I think Wal-Mart is actively looking at both HD DVD and Blu-ray product that is priced for higher volume sales. I wouldn't be surprised to see a $399 MSRP Blu-ray player and $299 MSRP HD DVD player in Wal-Mart for the holiday shopping season. It's quite easy to deny the existance of an order if you're just tossing numbers about. Fu Yuan's retraction wasn't a retraction of the entire subject but rather a clarification that talks were in progress. Naturally the report is false in the context that a deal had been struck which is what many intimated.
Since there's an absence of definitive information regarding completed or inprogress deals it's easy to fall to whatever side you want. If you're a "glass half empty" type you'll state that the deal was false and nothing's coming. If you're a "glass half full" type you'll latch onto the possibility that talks are in progress but nothing is eminent as we aren't even in Summer yet and the shopping season isn't upon us for a while.
I'm more interested at this point in seeing the Reference Platform players announced and shipping. They're supposed to ship Q2 so that means a May or June timeframe.
It's literally going to take HD DVD players in high quantity at pricing between $199 and $299 and a hot Christmast selling season to hit those numbers. This is why many are looking at any potential deals with Wal-Mart.
If HD-DVD gets to $199 this Christmas they win. But it will be a Pyrrhic victory for the Japanese CES companies except for Toshiba.
But hey...if they get to $199 and into WalMart then I'd be happy too because BluRay would be dead as a doornail as everyone BUT Sony jumps ship.
I gotta laugh at Marzetta7's post. Bragging about being first to a million disc sales is pretty ridiculous when you have 3 million players in the wild. That's 1 disc per 3 players. Luuuuuuucy ...you've got some 'splainin to do. </sarcasm>
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
The PR from Blu-raydisc.com does not state the 1 million discs are Americas sales so they must be worldwide which means you must take the worldwide sales of Blu-ray players. That's closer to 2 million and may be over 2 million.
Uh, so which is it? Is it 2 million or thereabouts or is it 3 million? The difference isn't insignificant.
Blu-ray has what 2 million players in North America now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Sony marketed the PS3 as being vital to the Blu-ray platform and gained the support of Warner and Paramount based on the potential of millions of PS3 owners buying discs. We now have good data that suggest that many PS3 owners don't care about buying movies even if they have the hardware to easily play them back.
And still Warner releases such as The Departed is selling more on Blu-ray.
And you can say that many PS3 owners don't care about buying movies and say that there are 3 million Blu-ray players out there.
Please make up your mind about how many Blu-ray players are on the market.
Of course not every PS3 owner is going to buy Blu-ray movies but if we subtract the PS3 from player sales then you find that HD DVD is outselling Blu-ray hardware at a 4:1 ratio.
2: The PS3 was released March 24 in Europe and the numbers in that link are from LAST YEAR - not even the Samsung had been available for long in Europe.
There are Blu-Ray Recorders, although I really don't expect to see much in the way of sales for them until next year given the prices. I can't say I have seen any HD players + ordinary DVD recorders. I suppose it is technically possible but when you are pushing HD why would you add SD recording?
I'm tired of fiddling with my VCR and don't want the hassle of multiple machines spagetti-linked to my TV.
Why not get a DVR with a large capacity? I don't know how it works with ordinary TV or cable, but the DVR integrated in our HD satellite receiver is great, and easy to use.
OK, so I only dip into this thread intermittently, but:
Weren't the Blu-Ray folks, a little while ago, all saying "Bwahahahaha, PS3 will cover the earth in Blu-Ray players, game over, suckers!" or words to that effect?
And if anyone suggested that maybe not all, or even many, of those PS3 owners would necessarily be watching a lot of Blu-Ray movies, the bwahahahaing got even louder?
And is it possibly true that now that the actual number of Blu-Ray discs sold doesn't compare favorably to the number of players out there, the very same people are saying "No fair, who knows if PS3 owners are even using them for movies"?
Personally, I don't care much one way or the other but if it were decided on the posting habits of supporters, I'd be HD DVD all the way. Lots of bwahahah-ing and Blu-Ray teh win!!! and victory dances in the end zone really really get on my nerves.
OK, so I only dip into this thread intermittently, but:
Weren't the Blu-Ray folks, a little while ago, all saying "Bwahahahaha, PS3 will cover the earth in Blu-Ray players, game over, suckers!" or words to that effect?
And if anyone suggested that maybe not all, or even many, of those PS3 owners would necessarily be watching a lot of Blu-Ray movies, the bwahahahaing got even louder?
And is it possibly true that now that the actual number of Blu-Ray discs sold doesn't compare favorably to the number of players out there, the very same people are saying "No fair, who knows if PS3 owners are even using them for movies"?
Personally, I don't care much one way or the other but if it were decided on the posting habits of supporters, I'd be HD DVD all the way. Lots of bwahahah-ing and Blu-Ray teh win!!! and victory dances in the end zone really really get on my nerves.
Hmm, only dip into this thread intermittently, however, draws the conclusion in a negative light toward those who support Blu-ray and their posting habits...what really gets on my nerves are the uninformed. Granted, there are some within the thread, myself included that get carried away from time to time, but I think for the most part there is a very good group of individuals in the thread that debate quite intellectually,...both pro Blu-ray and pro HD DVD. To paint those supporters of Blu-ray with your wide, and yet, intermittent brush, in my humble opinion, doesn't give an accurate or representative picture. Stick around though, you just might see the Blu light, and learn a few things (on both sides).
I just wanted to share with you guys my experience with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. I have a 1080p sony 60" rear projection TV. After getting severely addicted to the 15 720p cable channels from time warner I was jonesing for more HD goodness. I researched these 2 formats for months going back and forth in my decision. What sold me was the 1080p. HD-DVD currently has 1 player capable of this output and it has only been available half the time I was looking. I hear all this talk of HD-DVD being so much cheaper than Blu-ray but when you look at apples to apples comparison the 1080p player the HD-XA2 for HD-DVD is right in line with several current and future offernings from Blu-ray. So HD-DVD may be cheaper for some players but 1080p is out of the question for most of them, which seems like a cheap way to cut price and sell sub par quality players to push units (Remember true HD is 1080p not 1080i or 720p) Since I have a 1080p tv I decided I might as well get the most bang for the buck. I settled on the PS3. Games were not a factor in this at all and I highly doubt I will ever purchase one. I bought it purely for the Blu-ray player. What sold me on it over a standalone player was the wireless connection for updates and the fact you can browse the internet from it relatively easy. It seemed for 600$ I got a little bit more for my player. The internet browsing is quite nice for browsing sites from the comfort of your living room. I bought 2 discs initially with my player. Saw 3 of which I have yet to watch, and Casino Royale. Casino Royale looks flat out amazing. I feel like I am in a movie theater. Being able to access menus while the movie was playing was awesome and I can see this will allow some pretty cool things to be done in the future. I could not be happier with my purchase and am now awaiting several new releases of movies to add to my collection. Another great thing about Blu-ray is they have all the studio's but ones support. HD-DVD has one exclusive studio Universal while Blu-ray has several. Not good either way for us but seeing as your only missing out on one studio at the moment with Blu-ray it seems the better buy. Once they firmware update the PS3 to upscale DVD's it will only get better.
Notorious excellent post and welcome to the boards. I'm glad you've posted your thoughts here.
True HD is marketing blather. The actually specification encompasses 720p and 1080i as well. The reason why I say this is because you stated a preference for a 1080p player. The only benefit of a 1080p output in the context of HD DVD or Blu-ray is the ability to bypass the de-interlacer of your HDTV set. This may or may not lead to better picture quality depending on the relative performance of your sets de-interlacer.
Since the data stored on both platforms is 1080p24 proper de-interlacing , whether it be in the player or in the HDTV, will yield the same picture quality.
Now that you have a PS3 you will get to enjoy HD content and if a low cost HD DVD player is available to you that's something you can take advantage of. There comes a point where you'll want full access to HD movies. Until then enjoy all that you can
After much viewing on different settings and from cable hd which is obviously highly compressed 1080i to me is not so great. I prefer 720p to 1080i. 1080i has some serious smearing during fast movement. I can definetly notice the difference between 1080p and 1080i and it is more than marginal. Progressive is the winner no matter how you slice, for my setup at least.
HMurchison what is your setup and what TV do you have?
After much viewing on different settings and from cable hd which is obviously highly compressed 1080i to me is not so great. I prefer 720p to 1080i. 1080i has some serious smearing during fast movement. I can definetly notice the difference between 1080p and 1080i and it is more than marginal. Progressive is the winner no matter how you slice, for my setup at least.
HMurchison what is your setup and what TV do you have?
It's interesting... I have two 1080p LCD TV's and I do not notice 1080i smear.... I actually prefer 1080i over 720p for all viewing from DirecTV. Every set up will vary, but most current model 1080p displays use decent deintelacer and has faster refresh time which eliminates most of the motion smears. I'm not sure how noticeable the motion smear is when one's watching 60Hz vs. 30Hz material. Watching hockey puck moving around at 1080i/60 or (1080p30) from HDnet does not show noticeable smear.... so, what are you watching with your TV?
After much viewing on different settings and from cable hd which is obviously highly compressed 1080i to me is not so great. I prefer 720p to 1080i. 1080i has some serious smearing during fast movement. I can definetly notice the difference between 1080p and 1080i and it is more than marginal. Progressive is the winner no matter how you slice, for my setup at least.
HMurchison what is your setup and what TV do you have?
Sadly my access to HD was via my former roomates 30" Philips CRT and I know exactly of the smearing that you speak of. Fades and some fast pans would smear or pixelate on our comcast connection.
I'm vacillating between picking up a 32 or 37" LCD HDTV and I will mate a HD-A2 to it. Progressive is a good choice because sadly many HDTV manufacturers cut corners on their de-interlacing.
If I had a Sony SXRD, Panny or Samsung I HDTV I wouldn't worry so much.
HMurchison is right it's more the pixelation that comes with 1080i than smearing. One thing to remember though is cable and satelite are highly compressed. One of the reasons I considered adopting Blu-ray or HD-DVD so early. No matter how good it looks, movies such as the Matrix still have pixelation during scenes that have fast movement. That is definetly non existent on my PS3. I do have an SXRD and I do feel that switching between 720p, 1080i, and 1080p, 1080i is the lowest of the bunch as far as picture quality. So therefor I choose to watch in 1080p because to me picture quality is better. That's what it's all about, what makes you feel the best about your purchase I guess. Different setups vary though, my parents have a 720p tv and the apple tv looks way better on it as far as pixelation than on my tv. So who knows. All I know is I love 1080p and am happy with my purchase and felt like sharing my experience. I highly recommend no matter which format you go with you get a 1080p capable player (For future proofing at the very least.)
I do see pixelation time to time and it most definitely is terrible when you get it. Such service issue is supposed to be fixed with MPEG4 broadcast in the future, though. There are so many things you can do to ruin the broadcast signal. Most people actually use fixed resolution output from the cable box that usually ruins the picture quality. The last thing you'd want is to have the cheap cable box deinterlace or scale the picture. As I said before, most 1080p displays come with pretty decent video processors and it's much better to have the cable box to passthru native signal to the TV and let your TV do the deinterlacing/upscaling.
All in all, I do agree that the best reward for 1080p HDTV is to purchase HiDef format player to demonstrate what real hidef is all about. I just got my copy of Planet Earth in HD-DVD and it looks even better than the Discovery HD broadcast for sure. I think I just purchased the best HD-DVD demo material for next family get together......
Comments
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...hp?startpage=2
^^^ Wow, the numbers are here even sooner than I thought. Anyhow, Murch, you'll notice that despite the united and planned buyathon on April 15th, HD DVD still failed in overtaking overall sales from Blu-ray given last week actions. And this was even a week with a lapse in Blu-ray releases. Proof is in the numbers...from a dataset that represents the majority of the market and not some PR campaign for the HD DVD group.
Also, on the Wal-mart note, I found this quote rather damning of the HD DVD hopes and speculation...
Melissa O'Brien, senior manager, corporate communications, merchandise, said the chain would carry Sony's new Blu-ray player when it is released...Meanwhile, reports surfaced that the retailer had ordered 2 million Chinese-made HD DVD players for $100 million. O'Brien not only denied the existence of any such order, but also added the report was false.
When we look at actual sales we'll find the numbers a bit more static for both platforms.
Melissa O'Brien, senior manager, corporate communications, merchandise, said the chain would carry Sony's new Blu-ray player when it is released...Meanwhile, reports surfaced that the retailer had ordered 2 million Chinese-made HD DVD players for $100 million. O'Brien not only denied the existence of any such order, but also added the report was false.
You're inventing controversy where none exists. I never bought into the Wal-Mart deal as a done deal but I think Wal-Mart is actively looking at both HD DVD and Blu-ray product that is priced for higher volume sales. I wouldn't be surprised to see a $399 MSRP Blu-ray player and $299 MSRP HD DVD player in Wal-Mart for the holiday shopping season. It's quite easy to deny the existance of an order if you're just tossing numbers about. Fu Yuan's retraction wasn't a retraction of the entire subject but rather a clarification that talks were in progress. Naturally the report is false in the context that a deal had been struck which is what many intimated.
Since there's an absence of definitive information regarding completed or inprogress deals it's easy to fall to whatever side you want. If you're a "glass half empty" type you'll state that the deal was false and nothing's coming. If you're a "glass half full" type you'll latch onto the possibility that talks are in progress but nothing is eminent as we aren't even in Summer yet and the shopping season isn't upon us for a while.
I'm more interested at this point in seeing the Reference Platform players announced and shipping. They're supposed to ship Q2 so that means a May or June timeframe.
It's literally going to take HD DVD players in high quantity at pricing between $199 and $299 and a hot Christmast selling season to hit those numbers. This is why many are looking at any potential deals with Wal-Mart.
If HD-DVD gets to $199 this Christmas they win. But it will be a Pyrrhic victory for the Japanese CES companies except for Toshiba.
But hey...if they get to $199 and into WalMart then I'd be happy too because BluRay would be dead as a doornail as everyone BUT Sony jumps ship.
Vinea
I gotta laugh at Marzetta7's post. Bragging about being first to a million disc sales is pretty ridiculous when you have 3 million players in the wild. That's 1 disc per 3 players. Luuuuuuucy ...you've got some 'splainin to do. </sarcasm>
The PR from Blu-raydisc.com does not state the 1 million discs are Americas sales so they must be worldwide which means you must take the worldwide sales of Blu-ray players. That's closer to 2 million and may be over 2 million.
Uh, so which is it? Is it 2 million or thereabouts or is it 3 million? The difference isn't insignificant.
Why are you limiting yourself to the Americas.
You said:
Blu-ray has what 2 million players in North America now?
Sony marketed the PS3 as being vital to the Blu-ray platform and gained the support of Warner and Paramount based on the potential of millions of PS3 owners buying discs. We now have good data that suggest that many PS3 owners don't care about buying movies even if they have the hardware to easily play them back.
And still Warner releases such as The Departed is selling more on Blu-ray.
And you can say that many PS3 owners don't care about buying movies and say that there are 3 million Blu-ray players out there.
Please make up your mind about how many Blu-ray players are on the market.
Of course not every PS3 owner is going to buy Blu-ray movies but if we subtract the PS3 from player sales then you find that HD DVD is outselling Blu-ray hardware at a 4:1 ratio.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/02/24...ar-in-england/
1: That link is about software sales
2: The PS3 was released March 24 in Europe and the numbers in that link are from LAST YEAR - not even the Samsung had been available for long in Europe.
I'm tired of fiddling with my VCR and don't want the hassle of multiple machines spagetti-linked to my TV.
I think that such a machine will be my next purchase.
I'm tired of fiddling with my VCR and don't want the hassle of multiple machines spagetti-linked to my TV.
Why not get a DVR with a large capacity? I don't know how it works with ordinary TV or cable, but the DVR integrated in our HD satellite receiver is great, and easy to use.
Weren't the Blu-Ray folks, a little while ago, all saying "Bwahahahaha, PS3 will cover the earth in Blu-Ray players, game over, suckers!" or words to that effect?
And if anyone suggested that maybe not all, or even many, of those PS3 owners would necessarily be watching a lot of Blu-Ray movies, the bwahahahaing got even louder?
And is it possibly true that now that the actual number of Blu-Ray discs sold doesn't compare favorably to the number of players out there, the very same people are saying "No fair, who knows if PS3 owners are even using them for movies"?
Personally, I don't care much one way or the other but if it were decided on the posting habits of supporters, I'd be HD DVD all the way. Lots of bwahahah-ing and
Are there any HD-DVD players that up-convert DVD's AND offer a DVD recorder function?
I'm tired of fiddling with my VCR and don't want the hassle of multiple machines spagetti-linked to my TV.
I think that such a machine will be my next purchase.
I would seriously consider a HDD based PVR as Snoopy suggests, in my opinion in terms of recording TV, you will not look back.
OK, so I only dip into this thread intermittently, but:
Weren't the Blu-Ray folks, a little while ago, all saying "Bwahahahaha, PS3 will cover the earth in Blu-Ray players, game over, suckers!" or words to that effect?
And if anyone suggested that maybe not all, or even many, of those PS3 owners would necessarily be watching a lot of Blu-Ray movies, the bwahahahaing got even louder?
And is it possibly true that now that the actual number of Blu-Ray discs sold doesn't compare favorably to the number of players out there, the very same people are saying "No fair, who knows if PS3 owners are even using them for movies"?
Personally, I don't care much one way or the other but if it were decided on the posting habits of supporters, I'd be HD DVD all the way. Lots of bwahahah-ing and
Hmm, only dip into this thread intermittently, however, draws the conclusion in a negative light toward those who support Blu-ray and their posting habits...what really gets on my nerves are the uninformed. Granted, there are some within the thread, myself included that get carried away from time to time, but I think for the most part there is a very good group of individuals in the thread that debate quite intellectually,...both pro Blu-ray and pro HD DVD. To paint those supporters of Blu-ray with your wide, and yet, intermittent brush, in my humble opinion, doesn't give an accurate or representative picture. Stick around though, you just might see the Blu light, and learn a few things (on both sides).
I just wanted to share with you guys my experience with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. I have a 1080p sony 60" rear projection TV. After getting severely addicted to the 15 720p cable channels from time warner I was jonesing for more HD goodness. I researched these 2 formats for months going back and forth in my decision. What sold me was the 1080p. HD-DVD currently has 1 player capable of this output and it has only been available half the time I was looking. I hear all this talk of HD-DVD being so much cheaper than Blu-ray but when you look at apples to apples comparison the 1080p player the HD-XA2 for HD-DVD is right in line with several current and future offernings from Blu-ray. So HD-DVD may be cheaper for some players but 1080p is out of the question for most of them, which seems like a cheap way to cut price and sell sub par quality players to push units (Remember true HD is 1080p not 1080i or 720p) Since I have a 1080p tv I decided I might as well get the most bang for the buck. I settled on the PS3. Games were not a factor in this at all and I highly doubt I will ever purchase one. I bought it purely for the Blu-ray player. What sold me on it over a standalone player was the wireless connection for updates and the fact you can browse the internet from it relatively easy. It seemed for 600$ I got a little bit more for my player. The internet browsing is quite nice for browsing sites from the comfort of your living room. I bought 2 discs initially with my player. Saw 3 of which I have yet to watch, and Casino Royale. Casino Royale looks flat out amazing. I feel like I am in a movie theater. Being able to access menus while the movie was playing was awesome and I can see this will allow some pretty cool things to be done in the future. I could not be happier with my purchase and am now awaiting several new releases of movies to add to my collection. Another great thing about Blu-ray is they have all the studio's but ones support. HD-DVD has one exclusive studio Universal while Blu-ray has several. Not good either way for us but seeing as your only missing out on one studio at the moment with Blu-ray it seems the better buy. Once they firmware update the PS3 to upscale DVD's it will only get better.
My choice is clearly Blu-ray.
2c over.
True HD is marketing blather. The actually specification encompasses 720p and 1080i as well. The reason why I say this is because you stated a preference for a 1080p player. The only benefit of a 1080p output in the context of HD DVD or Blu-ray is the ability to bypass the de-interlacer of your HDTV set. This may or may not lead to better picture quality depending on the relative performance of your sets de-interlacer.
Since the data stored on both platforms is 1080p24 proper de-interlacing , whether it be in the player or in the HDTV, will yield the same picture quality.
Now that you have a PS3 you will get to enjoy HD content and if a low cost HD DVD player is available to you that's something you can take advantage of. There comes a point where you'll want full access to HD movies. Until then enjoy all that you can
HMurchison what is your setup and what TV do you have?
After much viewing on different settings and from cable hd which is obviously highly compressed 1080i to me is not so great. I prefer 720p to 1080i. 1080i has some serious smearing during fast movement. I can definetly notice the difference between 1080p and 1080i and it is more than marginal. Progressive is the winner no matter how you slice, for my setup at least.
HMurchison what is your setup and what TV do you have?
It's interesting... I have two 1080p LCD TV's and I do not notice 1080i smear.... I actually prefer 1080i over 720p for all viewing from DirecTV. Every set up will vary, but most current model 1080p displays use decent deintelacer and has faster refresh time which eliminates most of the motion smears. I'm not sure how noticeable the motion smear is when one's watching 60Hz vs. 30Hz material. Watching hockey puck moving around at 1080i/60 or (1080p30) from HDnet does not show noticeable smear.... so, what are you watching with your TV?
After much viewing on different settings and from cable hd which is obviously highly compressed 1080i to me is not so great. I prefer 720p to 1080i. 1080i has some serious smearing during fast movement. I can definetly notice the difference between 1080p and 1080i and it is more than marginal. Progressive is the winner no matter how you slice, for my setup at least.
HMurchison what is your setup and what TV do you have?
Sadly my access to HD was via my former roomates 30" Philips CRT and I know exactly of the smearing that you speak of. Fades and some fast pans would smear or pixelate on our comcast connection.
I'm vacillating between picking up a 32 or 37" LCD HDTV and I will mate a HD-A2 to it. Progressive is a good choice because sadly many HDTV manufacturers cut corners on their de-interlacing.
If I had a Sony SXRD, Panny or Samsung I HDTV I wouldn't worry so much.
All in all, I do agree that the best reward for 1080p HDTV is to purchase HiDef format player to demonstrate what real hidef is all about. I just got my copy of Planet Earth in HD-DVD and it looks even better than the Discovery HD broadcast for sure. I think I just purchased the best HD-DVD demo material for next family get together......