splain' why? I am really having a difficult time pushing the 4 cores on my pro now. How does 4-8 core determine what videocard you can use?
Unless Apple restricts the card to only 8 core mac pro systems via software.
I dont think they meant the number of cores would hold it up, just the systems that come with 8 cores could run it. Its most likely just because of the high power requirements and that running 2 of these cards in an older 4 core Mac Pro would overload the power supply.
Well ECC better for games then FB-dimms are. Also ECC ram uses less power then FB-dimms as well. Can AMD 4x4 system use 4 ram sticks per cpu? Was it cut down to 2 to make it fit in a smaller cases?
I think you are just meaning standard DDR2 dimms ... ECC or not, because the FBDIMMs are ECC.
As long as Apple wants multiple sockets, theyll go with Xeons. It would be nice if they had a Single socket Mac pro that could run Core 2 Duo/Extreme ... 2 or 4 core processors. That would cut off the requirement for FBDIMMs as well.
I don't believe the mac pro aux plug ins are 6 pin compatible. That doesn't mean you can't use an adapter though. I saw someone do it in an NVidia 8800 thread on macrumors. Though here is a few problems for people to consider. A) Only 1 slot (the main one) runs at 16x. The others are 8x or 4x. Not sure which. The built in powersupply doesn't really have enough juice for more than 1 high end graphics card. According to the thread I was reading on macrumors. http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=250851
Long story short, there are watts that are delivered through the bus, anything more than that has to be supplied through an external power source (ie different than the bus). So you can use the power supply or you can get a new thermaltake / fortron graphics card power supply.
I believe you are wrong, sir. Does not the current Mac Pro have slots that are all 16x size/compatible, and the system assigns lanes to the slots as needed?
Main problem with the current box is the low number of lanes available? I do not recall the exact number offhand, but it is lacking?
I believe you are wrong, sir. Does not the current Mac Pro have slots that are all 16x size/compatible, and the system assigns lanes to the slots as needed?
Main problem with the current box is the low number of lanes available? I do not recall the exact number offhand, but it is lacking?
If I am the one with a faulty memory, forgive me?
Well don't quote me, like last time because what I was reading was from someone off of a forum on mac rumors about adding an 8800gtx to his mac pro. When he had his 7300gt and his 8800gtx plugged in. His mac would FAIL to turn on. Someone brought up the reason that both slots aren't pci-e 16x. I could be wrong. But from what I've been reading from numerous sources, is that may be true. His mac would only turn on once just 1 card was plugged in. He even had an external power source for the 8800gtx, so it wasn't a power problem.
I believe you are wrong, sir. Does not the current Mac Pro have slots that are all 16x size/compatible, and the system assigns lanes to the slots as needed?
Main problem with the current box is the low number of lanes available? I do not recall the exact number offhand, but it is lacking?
If I am the one with a faulty memory, forgive me?
The chipset only supports 24 lanes if i remember right, so its not possible to run 2 at 16.
That shouldnt matter really as most video cards do not require a 16 lanes, just a x16 slot. Most nvidias and ATIs will work with x4 or x8, as well as the full x16. Even nvidias original SLI cards would run each card down at x8 when running SLI.
Well don't quote me, like last time because what I was reading was from someone off of a forum on mac rumors about adding an 8800gtx to his mac pro. When he had his 7300gt and his 8800gtx plugged in. His mac would FAIL to turn on. Someone brought up the reason that both slots aren't pci-e 16x. I could be wrong. But from what I've been reading from numerous sources, is that may be true. His mac would only turn on once just 1 card was plugged in. He even had an external power source for the 8800gtx, so it wasn't a power problem.
thats not a problem with needing 2 x16 lanes, I've seen the same issue with 2 unmatching cards on some Dells that used the same chipset as the Mac Pro. I know 7300s can run ok with 4 lanes, as ive done it before, and Apple will even sell you a Mac Pro with 4 7300s. Being only 24 lanes avaialble, each one is most likely running using only 4.
I havent found out, but it is possible there is a limitation in the chipset that cant run multiple video cards with different amount of lanes to each (some chipsets have had that type of limitation). Apple could have some things in their auto detect wrong where it saw multiple cards and set them all to 4 channels to start out, and the 8800 might (not sure) require at least 8, or messed up completely by setting the 7300 to 4 or 8 and the 8800 to 16.
too many things I'm unsure of on the exact chipset specs and how Apple controls the size of each slot, but I'm not surprised someone had a problem doing this.
Unless it's a conroe machine running 975x, a crossfire Mac Pro is not possible. Workstation solutions for crossfire don't exist for AMD's own chips, let alone intel CPUs. The only multi-gpu setup for the pro segment is the nForce Pro and that's Opteron only.
too many things I'm unsure of on the exact chipset specs and how Apple controls the size of each slot, but I'm not surprised someone had a problem doing this.
I thought there was a program included with the Mac Pro that allows the user to specifically set the lane configuration. I don't remember the name of the program.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig
Unless it's a conroe machine running 975x, a crossfire Mac Pro is not possible. Workstation solutions for crossfire don't exist for AMD's own chips, let alone intel CPUs. The only multi-gpu setup for the pro segment is the nForce Pro and that's Opteron only.
Isn't it possible that ATI had improved or fixed the Crossfire system on the new cards so that it doesn't require a proprietary chipset? IIRC, nVidia's SLI will work on the 5000X chipset. At least for a while, it required drivers that were hacked to ignore the fact that it's not running a "certified" SLI chipset.
I thought there was a program included with the Mac Pro that allows the user to specifically set the lane configuration. I don't remember the name of the program.
The Expansion Slot Utility, located in /System/Library/Core Services
you can get two x8s and two x4s. There is no option for all x4s so it must not have a limit on video cards running in different speeds, since theres no option to make all the slots the same. If the person that was having problems never set anything, might have been having an issue with the 8800 in the next slot which at default is running at x1, but i doubt that was the issue.
It does look like it saves it at a low level so it keeps the settings each boot, but info isnt there for sure. Some machines that are similar the software only changes it as an OS level, but has a different default state.... luckily it doesnt look like Apple did it that way
Unless it's a conroe machine running 975x, a crossfire Mac Pro is not possible. Workstation solutions for crossfire don't exist for AMD's own chips, let alone intel CPUs. The only multi-gpu setup for the pro segment is the nForce Pro and that's Opteron only.
Actually.... it is possible. Crossfire can be made to work, as well as SLI. Dell even sells workstations with the same 5000X chipset with SLI configed from the factory.
This quote from the developer's article is also interesting
The X2800XT, if it is 12.4 inches long, is just longer than a full length card and will have a little trouble fitting in a Mac Pro.
Although it doesn't say that there is only enough room for a 12.4inch card. By that I mean that there's nothing to indicate that there isn't room left over for a longer card, merely that it will fit both a full length or half length PEIe card.
Although it doesn't say that there is only enough room for a 12.4inch card. By that I mean that there's nothing to indicate that there isn't room left over for a longer card, merely that it will fit both a full length or half length PEIe card.
Ahhhh, I see your point. It doesn't say it can't fit a slightly larger card.
thats not a problem with needing 2 x16 lanes, I've seen the same issue with 2 unmatching cards on some Dells that used the same chipset as the Mac Pro. I know 7300s can run ok with 4 lanes, as ive done it before, and Apple will even sell you a Mac Pro with 4 7300s. Being only 24 lanes avaialble, each one is most likely running using only 4.
I havent found out, but it is possible there is a limitation in the chipset that cant run multiple video cards with different amount of lanes to each (some chipsets have had that type of limitation). Apple could have some things in their auto detect wrong where it saw multiple cards and set them all to 4 channels to start out, and the 8800 might (not sure) require at least 8, or messed up completely by setting the 7300 to 4 or 8 and the 8800 to 16.
too many things I'm unsure of on the exact chipset specs and how Apple controls the size of each slot, but I'm not surprised someone had a problem doing this.
There is likely a bandwidth limitation as there 24 pci-e lanes comeing off of the NB 16 for pci-e slots 8 + 4 ESI for chip set to chip set link and 12 PCI Express lanes form the SB so there is a bottleneck right there. Also airport seems to share one of the pci-e lanes.
remember that the PM G5 had more pci-e lanes and better chip set to chip set link.
Reread the quote... it said 12.238 NOT 12.38. 12.238 rounded off is 12.2 NOT 12.4.
But I think I've gotten past the length thing with what SpiunDrift said.
I read a bit wrong and went back and changed my post to quick before proofreading... still, back to what i was gong to say before i misread the numbers...
The specs on Apples sight talks about the standard card lengths, full length and half... not the amount of room there is to fit a card in, just that the 2 standard sizes fit.
I said it was a memory hungry app. If CS3 upgraded to handle more of it, isn't the statement. THe statement is that it's a memory hungry app. If CS3 has a 2GB memory ceiling that isn't the issue. It's an issue for Adobe, but the fact that it's always going to be hungry for more memory is still a fact of the app.
But then again I wasn't saying this computer was only intended for Photoshop users either. I was saying it was made for more than just Photoshop users - which IMO is the lowest end of the "highend" Applications and that's why some of these features may seem a bit excessive for merely a photoshop user. More than just Photoshop users buy these machines.
From what I saw when I DL'd CS3 it does recognize more ram on the system as mine has 4gb's of ram installed, the prefs came up using like 3000mb and some aprox. Which made it launch and operate fairly snappy! Which was niiice.
You're all assuming that Apple would be using a standard Intel chipset ? what if Apple and Intel sat down together and designed an Apple-only custom support chipset?
You're all assuming that Apple would be using a standard Intel chipset ? what if Apple and Intel sat down together and designed an Apple-only custom support chipset?
Well, considering that AMD pulled Intel's crossfire license when they bought ATI, that would be a no.
Comments
splain' why? I am really having a difficult time pushing the 4 cores on my pro now. How does 4-8 core determine what videocard you can use?
Unless Apple restricts the card to only 8 core mac pro systems via software.
I dont think they meant the number of cores would hold it up, just the systems that come with 8 cores could run it. Its most likely just because of the high power requirements and that running 2 of these cards in an older 4 core Mac Pro would overload the power supply.
Running one should work fine though.
Well ECC better for games then FB-dimms are. Also ECC ram uses less power then FB-dimms as well. Can AMD 4x4 system use 4 ram sticks per cpu? Was it cut down to 2 to make it fit in a smaller cases?
I think you are just meaning standard DDR2 dimms ... ECC or not, because the FBDIMMs are ECC.
As long as Apple wants multiple sockets, theyll go with Xeons. It would be nice if they had a Single socket Mac pro that could run Core 2 Duo/Extreme ... 2 or 4 core processors. That would cut off the requirement for FBDIMMs as well.
I don't believe the mac pro aux plug ins are 6 pin compatible. That doesn't mean you can't use an adapter though. I saw someone do it in an NVidia 8800 thread on macrumors. Though here is a few problems for people to consider. A) Only 1 slot (the main one) runs at 16x. The others are 8x or 4x. Not sure which.
Long story short, there are watts that are delivered through the bus, anything more than that has to be supplied through an external power source (ie different than the bus). So you can use the power supply or you can get a new thermaltake / fortron graphics card power supply.
I believe you are wrong, sir. Does not the current Mac Pro have slots that are all 16x size/compatible, and the system assigns lanes to the slots as needed?
Main problem with the current box is the low number of lanes available? I do not recall the exact number offhand, but it is lacking?
If I am the one with a faulty memory, forgive me?
I believe you are wrong, sir. Does not the current Mac Pro have slots that are all 16x size/compatible, and the system assigns lanes to the slots as needed?
Main problem with the current box is the low number of lanes available? I do not recall the exact number offhand, but it is lacking?
If I am the one with a faulty memory, forgive me?
Well don't quote me, like last time because what I was reading was from someone off of a forum on mac rumors about adding an 8800gtx to his mac pro. When he had his 7300gt and his 8800gtx plugged in. His mac would FAIL to turn on. Someone brought up the reason that both slots aren't pci-e 16x. I could be wrong. But from what I've been reading from numerous sources, is that may be true. His mac would only turn on once just 1 card was plugged in. He even had an external power source for the 8800gtx, so it wasn't a power problem.
I believe you are wrong, sir. Does not the current Mac Pro have slots that are all 16x size/compatible, and the system assigns lanes to the slots as needed?
Main problem with the current box is the low number of lanes available? I do not recall the exact number offhand, but it is lacking?
If I am the one with a faulty memory, forgive me?
The chipset only supports 24 lanes if i remember right, so its not possible to run 2 at 16.
That shouldnt matter really as most video cards do not require a 16 lanes, just a x16 slot. Most nvidias and ATIs will work with x4 or x8, as well as the full x16. Even nvidias original SLI cards would run each card down at x8 when running SLI.
Well don't quote me, like last time because what I was reading was from someone off of a forum on mac rumors about adding an 8800gtx to his mac pro. When he had his 7300gt and his 8800gtx plugged in. His mac would FAIL to turn on. Someone brought up the reason that both slots aren't pci-e 16x. I could be wrong. But from what I've been reading from numerous sources, is that may be true. His mac would only turn on once just 1 card was plugged in. He even had an external power source for the 8800gtx, so it wasn't a power problem.
thats not a problem with needing 2 x16 lanes, I've seen the same issue with 2 unmatching cards on some Dells that used the same chipset as the Mac Pro. I know 7300s can run ok with 4 lanes, as ive done it before, and Apple will even sell you a Mac Pro with 4 7300s. Being only 24 lanes avaialble, each one is most likely running using only 4.
I havent found out, but it is possible there is a limitation in the chipset that cant run multiple video cards with different amount of lanes to each (some chipsets have had that type of limitation). Apple could have some things in their auto detect wrong where it saw multiple cards and set them all to 4 channels to start out, and the 8800 might (not sure) require at least 8, or messed up completely by setting the 7300 to 4 or 8 and the 8800 to 16.
too many things I'm unsure of on the exact chipset specs and how Apple controls the size of each slot, but I'm not surprised someone had a problem doing this.
too many things I'm unsure of on the exact chipset specs and how Apple controls the size of each slot, but I'm not surprised someone had a problem doing this.
I thought there was a program included with the Mac Pro that allows the user to specifically set the lane configuration. I don't remember the name of the program.
Unless it's a conroe machine running 975x, a crossfire Mac Pro is not possible. Workstation solutions for crossfire don't exist for AMD's own chips, let alone intel CPUs. The only multi-gpu setup for the pro segment is the nForce Pro and that's Opteron only.
Isn't it possible that ATI had improved or fixed the Crossfire system on the new cards so that it doesn't require a proprietary chipset? IIRC, nVidia's SLI will work on the 5000X chipset. At least for a while, it required drivers that were hacked to ignore the fact that it's not running a "certified" SLI chipset.
I thought there was a program included with the Mac Pro that allows the user to specifically set the lane configuration. I don't remember the name of the program.
The Expansion Slot Utility, located in /System/Library/Core Services
you can get two x8s and two x4s. There is no option for all x4s so it must not have a limit on video cards running in different speeds, since theres no option to make all the slots the same. If the person that was having problems never set anything, might have been having an issue with the 8800 in the next slot which at default is running at x1, but i doubt that was the issue.
It does look like it saves it at a low level so it keeps the settings each boot, but info isnt there for sure. Some machines that are similar the software only changes it as an OS level, but has a different default state.... luckily it doesnt look like Apple did it that way
Unless it's a conroe machine running 975x, a crossfire Mac Pro is not possible. Workstation solutions for crossfire don't exist for AMD's own chips, let alone intel CPUs. The only multi-gpu setup for the pro segment is the nForce Pro and that's Opteron only.
Actually.... it is possible. Crossfire can be made to work, as well as SLI. Dell even sells workstations with the same 5000X chipset with SLI configed from the factory.
There is only 1 slot that supports 16 lanes.
This quote from the developer's article is also interesting
Each slot has room for a full length 312.00 mm (12.238 inch) or half length 167.65 mm (6.600 inch) card.
The X2800XT, if it is 12.4 inches long, is just longer than a full length card and will have a little trouble fitting in a Mac Pro.
This quote from the developer's article is also interesting
The X2800XT, if it is 12.4 inches long, is just longer than a full length card and will have a little trouble fitting in a Mac Pro.
Although it doesn't say that there is only enough room for a 12.4inch card. By that I mean that there's nothing to indicate that there isn't room left over for a longer card, merely that it will fit both a full length or half length PEIe card.
Although it doesn't say that there is only enough room for a 12.4inch card. By that I mean that there's nothing to indicate that there isn't room left over for a longer card, merely that it will fit both a full length or half length PEIe card.
Ahhhh, I see your point. It doesn't say it can't fit a slightly larger card.
Apple's Developer note on the PCIe lanes http://developer.apple.com/documenta...inkElementID_3
There is only 1 slot that supports 16 lanes.
This quote from the developer's article is also interesting
The X2800XT, if it is 12.4 inches long, is just longer than a full length card and will have a little trouble fitting in a Mac Pro.
12.38 rounded off is 12.4 .... Its the right size
If you look at the card, the card ends short, and its just a plastic spacer under the fan area to slide into the front holding slot.
12.38 rounded off is 12.4
Reread the quote... it said 12.238 NOT 12.38. 12.238 rounded off is 12.2 NOT 12.4.
But I think I've gotten past the length thing with what SpiunDrift said.
thats not a problem with needing 2 x16 lanes, I've seen the same issue with 2 unmatching cards on some Dells that used the same chipset as the Mac Pro. I know 7300s can run ok with 4 lanes, as ive done it before, and Apple will even sell you a Mac Pro with 4 7300s. Being only 24 lanes avaialble, each one is most likely running using only 4.
I havent found out, but it is possible there is a limitation in the chipset that cant run multiple video cards with different amount of lanes to each (some chipsets have had that type of limitation). Apple could have some things in their auto detect wrong where it saw multiple cards and set them all to 4 channels to start out, and the 8800 might (not sure) require at least 8, or messed up completely by setting the 7300 to 4 or 8 and the 8800 to 16.
too many things I'm unsure of on the exact chipset specs and how Apple controls the size of each slot, but I'm not surprised someone had a problem doing this.
There is likely a bandwidth limitation as there 24 pci-e lanes comeing off of the NB 16 for pci-e slots 8 + 4 ESI for chip set to chip set link and 12 PCI Express lanes form the SB so there is a bottleneck right there. Also airport seems to share one of the pci-e lanes.
remember that the PM G5 had more pci-e lanes and better chip set to chip set link.
Reread the quote... it said 12.238 NOT 12.38. 12.238 rounded off is 12.2 NOT 12.4.
But I think I've gotten past the length thing with what SpiunDrift said.
I read a bit wrong and went back and changed my post to quick before proofreading... still, back to what i was gong to say before i misread the numbers...
The specs on Apples sight talks about the standard card lengths, full length and half... not the amount of room there is to fit a card in, just that the 2 standard sizes fit.
I said it was a memory hungry app. If CS3 upgraded to handle more of it, isn't the statement. THe statement is that it's a memory hungry app. If CS3 has a 2GB memory ceiling that isn't the issue. It's an issue for Adobe, but the fact that it's always going to be hungry for more memory is still a fact of the app.
But then again I wasn't saying this computer was only intended for Photoshop users either. I was saying it was made for more than just Photoshop users - which IMO is the lowest end of the "highend" Applications and that's why some of these features may seem a bit excessive for merely a photoshop user. More than just Photoshop users buy these machines.
From what I saw when I DL'd CS3 it does recognize more ram on the system as mine has 4gb's of ram installed, the prefs came up using like 3000mb and some aprox. Which made it launch and operate fairly snappy! Which was niiice.
You're all assuming that Apple would be using a standard Intel chipset ? what if Apple and Intel sat down together and designed an Apple-only custom support chipset?
Well, considering that AMD pulled Intel's crossfire license when they bought ATI, that would be a no.