Last I read, the 2.2 standard couldn't be agreed on by the community. That a lot of bickering has caused the development to imensly slow down... Who knows, maybe hear-say.
Last I read, the 2.2 standard couldn't be agreed on by the community. That a lot of bickering has caused the development to imensly slow down... Who knows, maybe hear-say.
I don't know where you get that infornmation. They are still holding developer workshops going over what is new in 2.1. There is one in SF at the GDC in March. The OpenGL Wiki still only goes to 2.0. - 2.1 isn't exactly stagnant. It's pretty damn fresh.
I think its reasonably safe to assume that this is going to be a devastating card, and did anyone catch AMD recent demo using two R600's to achieve an amazing 1000 Gigaflop computer...
Well, considering that AMD pulled Intel's crossfire license when they bought ATI, that would be a no.
They didn't pull it, they extended it to the 965 chipsets and now they're extending it to everyone. Link You could end up using Crossfire on Nvidia chipsets.
This is a good tactical decision for AMD. Intel is crushing them with better CPU products and a price war that have many people wondering how AMD could possibly survive. But if they come up with a compelling GPU and sell it like hotcakes they might be able to hang on until they ramp K10. Open Crossfire will help them do that and it seems like Apple is planning to buy a whole lot of R600s for the Mac Pro.
This thread has been quiet for awhile. I know that NVIDIA is getting ready to release new cards which might appear at NAB, but the price point is too high for non-video intensive uses.
What is the current news on the X2800/R600?
Also, after reading thru this thread, I'm still not clear on why the X2800/R600 would only work on an 8 core Mac Pro (or is that just referring to running 2 cards side by side?)
I'm asking all this because as an Aperture user, I'm thinking I should save a little on CPU (ie Quad 3.0 instead of Octo 3.0) and spend the money on a better graphics card.....
Unless they changed the chipset without telling us, you still can't run dual graphics cards in crossfire mode on a 8 core mac. Something like that would require a whole new motherboard.
I think people assumed apple would do it at the time of this news, now I think you may have to look at the next rev to run dual graphics cards in a linked mode like Crossfire or SLI.
Unless they changed the chipset without telling us, you still can't run dual graphics cards in crossfire mode on a 8 core mac. Something like that would require a whole new motherboard.
I think people assumed apple would do it at the time of this news, now I think you may have to look at the next rev to run dual graphics cards in a linked mode like Crossfire or SLI.
But I dont want to run dual graphics cards. My question is will I be able to run ONE of the upcoming X2800/R600 in a Quad Core 3.0, or will I need an Octo Core?
Unless they changed the chipset without telling us, you still can't run dual graphics cards in crossfire mode on a 8 core mac. Something like that would require a whole new motherboard.
I think people assumed apple would do it at the time of this news, now I think you may have to look at the next rev to run dual graphics cards in a linked mode like Crossfire or SLI.
Is Crossfire restricted by hardware limitation or is it just a software restriction? I've heard that SLI is basically a software restriction now, that you can find hacked drivers that remove that restriction, placed there in part because nVidia wants to certify (and maybe validate) the boards, as well as the all-important money for SLI certified boards.
This thread has been quiet for awhile. I know that NVIDIA is getting ready to release new cards which might appear at NAB, but the price point is too high for non-video intensive uses.
What is the current news on the X2800/R600?
Also, after reading thru this thread, I'm still not clear on why the X2800/R600 would only work on an 8 core Mac Pro (or is that just referring to running 2 cards side by side?)
I'm asking all this because as an Aperture user, I'm thinking I should save a little on CPU (ie Quad 3.0 instead of Octo 3.0) and spend the money on a better graphics card.....
the current estimate on the r600 is now May, with simultaneous release of the entire range of X2000 series cards from low-end to high end. I also read that there is an A15 revision of the r600 in development that can run at up to 2GHZ!!!
Nvidia's new cards (lowend and midrange) are also due in a few weeks, and rumour is it - that they might be a bit duff - the most powerful of these being bested by ATi's last generation X1950 pro, which can be had for less than £100 - BUT remember its only a rumour!
Whatever the situation I'm going to be pretty upset if there is no graphics cards announced at NAB. The Mac Pro I configured is a whopping amount of cash, and I am going with the minimum RAM, and Hard Dive. All my features are in other departments. I'm buying the RAM, and HD's elsewhere for less. I'm counting on a Quadro 5600, and Apple better damn well have the quadro drivers for them.
There is no point in buying the quadro with out the drivers for me. Right now the ATI 1900 has better Maya support with their driver which just isn't right. When you spend 7K or so on a base configuration computer you expect a new graphics card to perform to it's fullest. I can always stick with another vendor again, but I'd rather have another Mac.
I watched Apple loose a lot of money on Mac Pro's b/c they didn't support Nvidia's better performing cards in their last revision like the GeForce 7950 GX2. They didn't support SLI which is a dead giveaway that your not building cutting edge systems that are ready for the future. SLI wasn't as important as no cutting edge cards like 7950 GX2. If Apple were smart about it they would just support both EFI, and BIOS in Leopard so people would have a better choice. It would also put them a step ahead of windows in graphics b/c windows isn't supporting EFI.
so when this new card comes out what are we to expect of the mac pros?
ati 1900 xt as the standard card, this one as the middle card and the latest nvidia quadro as the top end card?
The standard card should IMO be atleast a 1950Pro, which is a decent card and pretty inexpensive these days. At very least an X1650XT should be in there.
As others have said, if you drop many thousands on a workstation, you expect by default a top-midrange card atleast. Regardless of whether they are used or not, putting a junk card like a 7300GT in a serious workstation is really crappy.
so when this new card comes out what are we to expect of the mac pros?
ati 1900 xt as the standard card, this one as the middle card and the latest nvidia quadro as the top end card?
You mean what do I expect as the entry level card? I have no idea. Apple is going to have to figure out what they need from their graphics vendors, and work from there. They do need to think about how their machines are to become competitive. AFAIAC The Mac Pro shouldn't worry so much about low level performance cards because it is a higher performing machine, but it does need to have a decent entry level price for those who can not afford a behemoth. IT makes me think that maybe they do need to a single socket motherboard with a another processor with a few other card options for a different market. The ATI X1950PRO PCI Express 512MB Video Card is only $250.00 which is not a bad price for an entry level card. You can get a GeForce 7950 for $200.00. Which one is a better card? Which of these is better in photoshop? The GeForce 8800 GTS is available for $300.00. What would you choose? Price, or performance. I have no idea how any of these perform, but I'm pretty sure the 8800 GTS is still considered to be cutting edge and in the now.
The gpu thing has been an issue for a while now. (Remember the alien face sucker ATI rage '16' cards that never seems to leave the imacs or 'power'Macs alone?)
Or Quickdraw 3D?
Shudders.
Open GL arrived. Got better. Bigger, better cards from Nividia and ATI have over the years.
But a 7300 GPU in a workstation costing 1700 pounds? Shocking.
And the complete lack of price cuts, new gpu options...and a mere octo drop in as the 'new' high end? Leaves me with a 'meh' feeling about the 'update' which isn't an update, really?
I guess Apple is waiting for Penryn? Which is due, possibly early 2nd half 2007?
It that's the case. Don't buy a 'new' Mac until Leopard is patched twice and Penryn arrives.
It's not that far away. You'd be mad to buy in the next few months.
For me, it's down to Leopard and Penryn? We can't discount the idea that Apple are merely waiting for the dust to settle on the R600 and the revision to the 8800 from Nvidia.
I don't see the 7300 as a major flaw in the Mac Pros. I mean, I'd have loved to have the x1900 standard, but really, the 7300gt was a decent fanless card that worked fine when you don't have much use for the graphics card. I mean, if you don't do graphics work, video encoding, or games, then the x1900xt is about as much use as an ejector seat in a helicopter. It would have been nice to have a better card, but the Mac Pros are still very price-competitive if you don't need SAS or Hardware RAID. I mean, the 7300 was not a travesty. Look at Dell's Precision 690 entry-level card: a 128MB ancient Quadro NVS. Not a great card.
Apple is unlikely to support gaming-card SLI/Crossfire, simply because the market for that is too small to offer an SKU to, and that market would much rather BYO and run Windows for games. I could see a Quadro SLI or something, but the market for dual-X2900XTs just isn't there. Apple can't retain its "minimal options, minimal problems" approach to computers (which works pretty well overall) and cater to gamers.
And just to propagate the "ultimate computer of doom" thing we've got going, I'd much rather have two 8800 Ultras than x2900s.
I don't see the 7300 as a major flaw in the Mac Pros. I mean, I'd have loved to have the x1900 standard, but really, the 7300gt was a decent fanless card that worked fine when you don't have much use for the graphics card. I mean, if you don't do graphics work, video encoding, or games, then the x1900xt is about as much use as an ejector seat in a helicopter. It would have been nice to have a better card, but the Mac Pros are still very price-competitive if you don't need SAS or Hardware RAID. I mean, the 7300 was not a travesty. Look at Dell's Precision 690 entry-level card: a 128MB ancient Quadro NVS. Not a great card.
Apple is unlikely to support gaming-card SLI/Crossfire, simply because the market for that is too small to offer an SKU to, and that market would much rather BYO and run Windows for games. I could see a Quadro SLI or something, but the market for dual-X2900XTs just isn't there. Apple can't retain its "minimal options, minimal problems" approach to computers (which works pretty well overall) and cater to gamers.
And just to propagate the "ultimate computer of doom" thing we've got going, I'd much rather have two 8800 Ultras than x2900s.
As a workstation and not a desktop, I would expect the base graphics to be a FireGL V3300.
Comments
Last I read, the 2.2 standard couldn't be agreed on by the community. That a lot of bickering has caused the development to imensly slow down... Who knows, maybe hear-say.
I don't know where you get that infornmation. They are still holding developer workshops going over what is new in 2.1. There is one in SF at the GDC in March. The OpenGL Wiki still only goes to 2.0. - 2.1 isn't exactly stagnant. It's pretty damn fresh.
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4510
I think its reasonably safe to assume that this is going to be a devastating card, and did anyone catch AMD recent demo using two R600's to achieve an amazing 1000 Gigaflop computer...
Well, considering that AMD pulled Intel's crossfire license when they bought ATI, that would be a no.
They didn't pull it, they extended it to the 965 chipsets and now they're extending it to everyone. Link You could end up using Crossfire on Nvidia chipsets.
This is a good tactical decision for AMD. Intel is crushing them with better CPU products and a price war that have many people wondering how AMD could possibly survive. But if they come up with a compelling GPU and sell it like hotcakes they might be able to hang on until they ramp K10. Open Crossfire will help them do that and it seems like Apple is planning to buy a whole lot of R600s for the Mac Pro.
What is the current news on the X2800/R600?
Also, after reading thru this thread, I'm still not clear on why the X2800/R600 would only work on an 8 core Mac Pro (or is that just referring to running 2 cards side by side?)
I'm asking all this because as an Aperture user, I'm thinking I should save a little on CPU (ie Quad 3.0 instead of Octo 3.0) and spend the money on a better graphics card.....
I think people assumed apple would do it at the time of this news, now I think you may have to look at the next rev to run dual graphics cards in a linked mode like Crossfire or SLI.
Unless they changed the chipset without telling us, you still can't run dual graphics cards in crossfire mode on a 8 core mac. Something like that would require a whole new motherboard.
I think people assumed apple would do it at the time of this news, now I think you may have to look at the next rev to run dual graphics cards in a linked mode like Crossfire or SLI.
But I dont want to run dual graphics cards. My question is will I be able to run ONE of the upcoming X2800/R600 in a Quad Core 3.0, or will I need an Octo Core?
Unless they changed the chipset without telling us, you still can't run dual graphics cards in crossfire mode on a 8 core mac. Something like that would require a whole new motherboard.
I think people assumed apple would do it at the time of this news, now I think you may have to look at the next rev to run dual graphics cards in a linked mode like Crossfire or SLI.
Is Crossfire restricted by hardware limitation or is it just a software restriction? I've heard that SLI is basically a software restriction now, that you can find hacked drivers that remove that restriction, placed there in part because nVidia wants to certify (and maybe validate) the boards, as well as the all-important money for SLI certified boards.
This thread has been quiet for awhile. I know that NVIDIA is getting ready to release new cards which might appear at NAB, but the price point is too high for non-video intensive uses.
What is the current news on the X2800/R600?
Also, after reading thru this thread, I'm still not clear on why the X2800/R600 would only work on an 8 core Mac Pro (or is that just referring to running 2 cards side by side?)
I'm asking all this because as an Aperture user, I'm thinking I should save a little on CPU (ie Quad 3.0 instead of Octo 3.0) and spend the money on a better graphics card.....
the current estimate on the r600 is now May, with simultaneous release of the entire range of X2000 series cards from low-end to high end. I also read that there is an A15 revision of the r600 in development that can run at up to 2GHZ!!!
Nvidia's new cards (lowend and midrange) are also due in a few weeks, and rumour is it - that they might be a bit duff - the most powerful of these being bested by ATi's last generation X1950 pro, which can be had for less than £100 - BUT remember its only a rumour!
There is no point in buying the quadro with out the drivers for me. Right now the ATI 1900 has better Maya support with their driver which just isn't right. When you spend 7K or so on a base configuration computer you expect a new graphics card to perform to it's fullest. I can always stick with another vendor again, but I'd rather have another Mac.
I watched Apple loose a lot of money on Mac Pro's b/c they didn't support Nvidia's better performing cards in their last revision like the GeForce 7950 GX2. They didn't support SLI which is a dead giveaway that your not building cutting edge systems that are ready for the future. SLI wasn't as important as no cutting edge cards like 7950 GX2. If Apple were smart about it they would just support both EFI, and BIOS in Leopard so people would have a better choice. It would also put them a step ahead of windows in graphics b/c windows isn't supporting EFI.
ati 1900 xt as the standard card, this one as the middle card and the latest nvidia quadro as the top end card?
so when this new card comes out what are we to expect of the mac pros?
ati 1900 xt as the standard card, this one as the middle card and the latest nvidia quadro as the top end card?
The standard card should IMO be atleast a 1950Pro, which is a decent card and pretty inexpensive these days. At very least an X1650XT should be in there.
As others have said, if you drop many thousands on a workstation, you expect by default a top-midrange card atleast. Regardless of whether they are used or not, putting a junk card like a 7300GT in a serious workstation is really crappy.
so when this new card comes out what are we to expect of the mac pros?
ati 1900 xt as the standard card, this one as the middle card and the latest nvidia quadro as the top end card?
You mean what do I expect as the entry level card? I have no idea. Apple is going to have to figure out what they need from their graphics vendors, and work from there. They do need to think about how their machines are to become competitive. AFAIAC The Mac Pro shouldn't worry so much about low level performance cards because it is a higher performing machine, but it does need to have a decent entry level price for those who can not afford a behemoth. IT makes me think that maybe they do need to a single socket motherboard with a another processor with a few other card options for a different market. The ATI X1950PRO PCI Express 512MB Video Card is only $250.00 which is not a bad price for an entry level card. You can get a GeForce 7950 for $200.00. Which one is a better card? Which of these is better in photoshop? The GeForce 8800 GTS is available for $300.00. What would you choose? Price, or performance. I have no idea how any of these perform, but I'm pretty sure the 8800 GTS is still considered to be cutting edge and in the now.
Or Quickdraw 3D?
Shudders.
Open GL arrived. Got better. Bigger, better cards from Nividia and ATI have over the years.
But a 7300 GPU in a workstation costing 1700 pounds? Shocking.
And the complete lack of price cuts, new gpu options...and a mere octo drop in as the 'new' high end? Leaves me with a 'meh' feeling about the 'update' which isn't an update, really?
I guess Apple is waiting for Penryn? Which is due, possibly early 2nd half 2007?
It that's the case. Don't buy a 'new' Mac until Leopard is patched twice and Penryn arrives.
It's not that far away. You'd be mad to buy in the next few months.
For me, it's down to Leopard and Penryn? We can't discount the idea that Apple are merely waiting for the dust to settle on the R600 and the revision to the 8800 from Nvidia.
Lemon Bon Bon
Apple is unlikely to support gaming-card SLI/Crossfire, simply because the market for that is too small to offer an SKU to, and that market would much rather BYO and run Windows for games. I could see a Quadro SLI or something, but the market for dual-X2900XTs just isn't there. Apple can't retain its "minimal options, minimal problems" approach to computers (which works pretty well overall) and cater to gamers.
And just to propagate the "ultimate computer of doom" thing we've got going, I'd much rather have two 8800 Ultras than x2900s.
I don't see the 7300 as a major flaw in the Mac Pros. I mean, I'd have loved to have the x1900 standard, but really, the 7300gt was a decent fanless card that worked fine when you don't have much use for the graphics card. I mean, if you don't do graphics work, video encoding, or games, then the x1900xt is about as much use as an ejector seat in a helicopter. It would have been nice to have a better card, but the Mac Pros are still very price-competitive if you don't need SAS or Hardware RAID. I mean, the 7300 was not a travesty. Look at Dell's Precision 690 entry-level card: a 128MB ancient Quadro NVS. Not a great card.
Apple is unlikely to support gaming-card SLI/Crossfire, simply because the market for that is too small to offer an SKU to, and that market would much rather BYO and run Windows for games. I could see a Quadro SLI or something, but the market for dual-X2900XTs just isn't there. Apple can't retain its "minimal options, minimal problems" approach to computers (which works pretty well overall) and cater to gamers.
And just to propagate the "ultimate computer of doom" thing we've got going, I'd much rather have two 8800 Ultras than x2900s.
As a workstation and not a desktop, I would expect the base graphics to be a FireGL V3300.
As a workstation and not a desktop, I would expect the base graphics to be a FireGL V3300.
What percentage of workstations requires a powerful GPU?
What percentage of workstations requires a powerful GPU?
Actually, the V3300 is an entry level workstation card, not necessarily anything special that you might assume.
Actually, the V3300 is an entry level workstation card, not necessarily anything special that you might assume.
But it is made for workstation type activities, not consumer ones like the 7300GT.