have you ever seen 'I'm a Celebrity - Get me out of here!' or 'Fear Factor'?
- some of those are pretty cruel - equal of any Japanese TV shows!
Where do you think they got the idea for these types of shows? There have been such shows in Japan long before they showed up in the US. Most reality TV shows in the US are stolen, er, borowed from the UK and Japan.
Guys, think about it..32gb of NAND memory would be awfully expensive.. I personally think they'll do this..
Core 2 Duo 2Ghz
1GB RAM
4GB NAND memory (Flash memory)
60GB 5400 HD
12 inch display
DVD-+RW drive on the bottom of the 12 inch MacBook
(preferably) LED Display (probably not)
And the rest of the current apple fancy stuff
and why do i suggest 4gb of NAND memory..couple of reason.
1. 32GB is way overprice and i don't think its ready for use as a main stream hard drive
2. 10.5 has ZFS... ZFS isn't bootable...but NAND memory is (1+1=...)
3. Remember hearing the rumor of Mac Pro's can only use 10.5... this would make sense seeing that 10.4 probably wouldn't see the NAND memory and if it did, it doesn't have a ZFS format option. And apple wouldn't want to add that option to 10.4 because they want to sell 10.5, not 10.4
What am I getting at? You install 10.5 of your 12 macbook, it see's the NAND memory.. installs a boot partition into the NAND(faster booting time)and formats your 60GB HD to ZFS..brand new top of the line file system thats the best out there(ATM). See now.. I think this is more logical for apple to make this move than a 32gb NAND harddrive.
Also 4gb of NAND would "just" be enough to install 10.5 completely on it.. (minus the language files/printer drivers)
I mean c'mon... Shaw Wu hasn't even touched this one.
Good point. DigiTimes is rubbish, on the other end, it seems as though If Walt Mossberg mentions it, it's pretty much a done deal. So we'll have to see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by syklee26
my prediction for specs
core 2 duo 1.67ghz
It would be smaller and a little lighter, but any system that uses the LV chips properly won't make much of a scratch in the Japanese market. They pay a premium for the 2-3lb notebooks, and an LV notebook is still around 4 to 5lb region. The systems that win the Japanese market are those that use the ULV chips, and as such, you aren't going to see the 1.66/1.87 GHz chips in a typical subnotebook using current chips. Use the proper chips for the device class, and 8hrs of actual run time would be realistic.
$2000 and gma 950 that is a big ripoff next to other laptop systems. at least use a nvidia or ati card.
Out of curiosity, how many subnotes use discrete video chips? The ones I've seen are all integrated video. I think you simply don't have realistic expectations given the device class. Let's just say it to get it out of the way, you probably will never like the the subnotebook class of computers enough to actually buy one.
I fall in the camp that believes Apple must increase it's range: 15.4 MacBook, MacBook with a dedicated graphics card, and yes, a smaller MacBook/Pro. Not that I believe in following others, but the PC world offers consumer laptops with 15 and 17" screens, at MacBook prices.
I would also like to see Apple provide docking capability for their 15 and 17 inch laptops. Docking stations are very popular with corporate users.
So, what form factor does everyone think this thing will have?
A) tablet style with single screen that is touch-sensitive
clam-shell
C) slide out keyboard
I'm thinking Thinkpad X-Series, only with an 11.1" widescreen (so I guess, like the Sony TX-Series). This will not be a tablet (or even a convertable tablet): Apple's not going to fill everyone's dreams all in one product. I would also be surprised if the notebook did not have a hard drive. If it has flash memory, it will be used to augment the hard drive, storing that data that will allow less accesses to the hard drive. In the end, this product (if it really does exist) will be a little Macbook, not a large iPhone -- and so the functionality will follow from the computer end of the spectrum. And if you disagree, I would remind you that the article (which is all we have to go on, so we might as well have this lead our speculation) says,
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Also setting the new model aside from its existing counterparts, those same people say, may be the conspicuous absence of an optical disc drive. Although Apple's original plans for the notebook called for its inclusion, reports are that the daunting ergonomics have recently driven company engineers to make a concession...
You would not even think of putting an optical drive in a device like the Sony UX-Series; that you find one in the Sony TX-Series is amazing. This is about the size that Apple would have to compromise on whether it's worth having the optical drive.
Guys, think about it..32gb of NAND memory would be awfully expensive.. I personally think they'll do this..
Apple buys like half the world's flash supply. They get it at a massive discount. And if they can put 8 GB of it in a $250 iPod, they can put 16/32 in a MacBook. Flash costs Apple like $10 a GB or so, therefore at least 16 GB should be easy to get into a laptop, and 32 GB is possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortri
2. 10.5 has ZFS... ZFS isn't bootable...but NAND memory is (1+1=...)
That makes no sense whatsoever. You're equating a software issue with a hardware option. ZFS's boot issues have absolutely nothing to do with being on a hard drive or being on flash. Apple could just as easily stick their bootloader on a separate HDD partition.
And there's no evidence that 10.5 uses ZFS as its primary filesystem or even has that option. It just has support for ZFS. It might only use it for Time Machine drives or compatibility with some forthcoming Apple product that does use it.
Where do you think they got the idea for these types of shows? There have been such shows in Japan long before they showed up in the US. Most reality TV shows in the US are stolen, er, borowed from the UK and Japan.
Some of these off topic threads are fun ...
True (Archie Bunker amongst many others too, now that's cruelty to watch lol) but at least Simon didn't get ripped off... he learned from the past and brought Idol here himself (well with some help from the Murdochs)
It would be smaller and a little lighter, but any system that uses the LV chips properly won't make much of a scratch in the Japanese market. They pay a premium for the 2-3lb notebooks, and an LV notebook is still around 4 to 5lb region. The systems that win the Japanese market are those that use the ULV chips, and as such, you aren't going to see the 1.66/1.87 GHz chips in a typical subnotebook using current chips. Use the proper chips for the device class, and 8hrs of actual run time would be realistic.
...
Quote:
Out of curiosity, how many subnotes use discrete video chips? The ones I've seen are all integrated video. I think you simply don't have realistic expectations given the device class. Let's just say it to get it out of the way, you probably will never like the the subnotebook class of computers enough to actually buy one.
It's funny that people think that they will be able to replace their desktop with a sub-notebook. The performance of any Apple sub-notebook will be like buying an old iBook G3, only, because it is utilising newer tech, it will be smaller, and have better battery life.
Well yeah, 'cause they are. They try an make everyone SEEM humble, and this comes from talking to someone who is constantly going there for business. They really are quite arrogant, and it's just a game they play. Sortof like 'court behaviour', read Machiavelli's forward to the Medici Prince for an example
And there's no evidence that 10.5 uses ZFS as its primary filesystem or even has that option. It just has support for ZFS. It might only use it for Time Machine drives or compatibility with some forthcoming Apple product that does use it.
Oh, I really hope ZFS is an option... 8)
My Airport Extreme has just fired up with it's USB external hard drive and all Macs on the network are working flawlessly. Not one problem in set up. It also allows something previous secondary routers haven't done (for me at least). My Extreme is running DHCP and attached to a Verizon FiOS router / wi-fi device via ethernet and Apple Extreme is quite happily letting me see and mount Macs on the FiOS wi-fi router. This solves what I expected to be an issue. I can simply switch any 11.g machines over to the FiOS wi-fi if and continue without any hassles if Apple TV is in use to preserve the 11.n networks purity when required.
It would cost Apple about $300. I think that price is enabling.
So? The price to the customer will be $600. Gross margin is not net margin. Just keep in mind the current stable of flash-based notebooks. I can see it being a viable option if Apple doesn't automatically throw on all the software they can. A stock install on a MBP is about 30GB, at least that's what I saw on mine before I started transferring my system from another computer. I'm pretty sure that a 60, 80 or 100GB 1.8" hard drive would be faster and cheaper.
You got to be kidding, right? Think more like 1.33GHz for a sub-notebook.
That's pretty much the kind of thing I've been trying to say. A subnote is a very different animal, you get a lighter, smaller machine that might run for 8 hours on a battery at the expense of money and speed. You are very unlikely to get multi-GHz, discrete graphics and other features on a full-size notebook because it isn't one.
So? The price to the customer will be $600. Gross margin is not net margin. Just keep in mind the current stable of flash-based notebooks. I can see it being a viable option if Apple doesn't automatically throw on all the software they can. A stock install on a MBP is about 30GB, at least that's what I saw on mine before I started transferring my system from another computer. I'm pretty sure that a 60, 80 or 100GB 1.8" hard drive would be faster and cheaper.
If they announce it in June and it ships in August that's half a year of NAND flash price erosion. If you extrapolate the current price trend, that means it will cost about $200 instead of $300. How much do hard drives cost Apple? Probably $50. So the increase in price would be about $150. And the markup isn't 100%. It's around 45% (see iSupplie iMac tear-down). So the extra cost to the consumer will be about $215 - which is well worth it for the power, noise, and space savings.
My heart jumped after my daily Google for "new apple subnotebook 2007" yielded today's posting on Apple Insider. I eagerly read to get some HINT of a confirmed detail, and found nothing. My heart sank when I realized the post was a whole lotta nothing, talking about the good old days of my Powerbook Duo...with nothing concrete and a photoshopped image showing a mock-up of what the MacBook Nano might look like. I went to the forum to see if someone else had some details, and I see two pages of conjecture on what the specs will be. I thought the rumor community already went through that exercise prior to the MacWorld iPhone extravaganza. Surely someone in the world can give us some more concrete details! sheesh! THIS IS KILLING ME
If they announce it in June and it ships in August that's half a year of NAND flash price erosion. If you extrapolate the current price trend, that means it will cost about $200 instead of $300. How much do hard drives cost Apple? Probably $50. So the increase in price would be about $150. And the markup isn't 100%. It's around 45% (see iSupplie iMac tear-down). So the extra cost to the consumer will be about $215
OK, though it it's a BTO option, I'd expect that upgrading to that drive to be about as expensive as the drive by itself anywhere else.
Quote:
which is well worth it for the power, noise, and space savings.
I wouldn't go that far. Current notebook hard drives don't consume much power or generate much noise, and the typical 1.8" drives used in a subnote are even thriftier with power and don't make much noise either. My first gen MBP doesn't make any audible difference when it's flailing the hard drive, nor does that part of the notebook get very warm.
Even when assuming the hard drive is on and running most of the time (which is not typical), I think I calculated that a typical 2.5" drive would last about 30 hours on a MBP battery.
Current notebook flash drives aren't any smaller that I've seen either. I still have a hard time believing that a 32GB drive would be useful in an OS X system for reasons I've already noted. A shipping Leopard install + iLife, etc. is probably going to take even more space. Apple would have to really slim down their installations.
Comments
have you ever seen 'I'm a Celebrity - Get me out of here!' or 'Fear Factor'?
- some of those are pretty cruel - equal of any Japanese TV shows!
Where do you think they got the idea for these types of shows? There have been such shows in Japan long before they showed up in the US. Most reality TV shows in the US are stolen, er, borowed from the UK and Japan.
my prediction for specs
core 2 duo 1.67ghz
1gb ram
32gb Flash drive (this might be split into two drives like typical Vaio notebooks)
no graphics card
10 inch wide screen
isight
2 USB, 1 FW400 (and maybe slots for memory cards)
Superdrive (probably not the DL)
LED based screen lighting
4 hr practical battery life (probably listed as "upto 7 hrs"
for the price of....$1999.
IT COSTS MORE TO STAY THIN. that's true for human beings as well as gadgets.
$2000 and gma 950 that is a big ripoff next to other laptop systems. at least use a nvidia or ati card.
Core 2 Duo 2Ghz
1GB RAM
4GB NAND memory (Flash memory)
60GB 5400 HD
12 inch display
DVD-+RW drive on the bottom of the 12 inch MacBook
(preferably) LED Display (probably not)
And the rest of the current apple fancy stuff
and why do i suggest 4gb of NAND memory..couple of reason.
1. 32GB is way overprice and i don't think its ready for use as a main stream hard drive
2. 10.5 has ZFS... ZFS isn't bootable...but NAND memory is (1+1=...)
3. Remember hearing the rumor of Mac Pro's can only use 10.5... this would make sense seeing that 10.4 probably wouldn't see the NAND memory and if it did, it doesn't have a ZFS format option. And apple wouldn't want to add that option to 10.4 because they want to sell 10.5, not 10.4
What am I getting at? You install 10.5 of your 12 macbook, it see's the NAND memory.. installs a boot partition into the NAND(faster booting time)and formats your 60GB HD to ZFS..brand new top of the line file system thats the best out there(ATM). See now.. I think this is more logical for apple to make this move than a 32gb NAND harddrive.
Also 4gb of NAND would "just" be enough to install 10.5 completely on it.. (minus the language files/printer drivers)
I'll believe it when I see it.
...or hear a lot more reports about it.
I mean c'mon... Shaw Wu hasn't even touched this one.
Good point. DigiTimes is rubbish, on the other end, it seems as though If Walt Mossberg mentions it, it's pretty much a done deal. So we'll have to see.
my prediction for specs
core 2 duo 1.67ghz
It would be smaller and a little lighter, but any system that uses the LV chips properly won't make much of a scratch in the Japanese market. They pay a premium for the 2-3lb notebooks, and an LV notebook is still around 4 to 5lb region. The systems that win the Japanese market are those that use the ULV chips, and as such, you aren't going to see the 1.66/1.87 GHz chips in a typical subnotebook using current chips. Use the proper chips for the device class, and 8hrs of actual run time would be realistic.
$2000 and gma 950 that is a big ripoff next to other laptop systems. at least use a nvidia or ati card.
Out of curiosity, how many subnotes use discrete video chips? The ones I've seen are all integrated video. I think you simply don't have realistic expectations given the device class. Let's just say it to get it out of the way, you probably will never like the the subnotebook class of computers enough to actually buy one.
I fall in the camp that believes Apple must increase it's range: 15.4 MacBook, MacBook with a dedicated graphics card, and yes, a smaller MacBook/Pro. Not that I believe in following others, but the PC world offers consumer laptops with 15 and 17" screens, at MacBook prices.
I would also like to see Apple provide docking capability for their 15 and 17 inch laptops. Docking stations are very popular with corporate users.
So, what form factor does everyone think this thing will have?
A) tablet style with single screen that is touch-sensitive
C) slide out keyboard
I'm thinking Thinkpad X-Series, only with an 11.1" widescreen (so I guess, like the Sony TX-Series). This will not be a tablet (or even a convertable tablet): Apple's not going to fill everyone's dreams all in one product. I would also be surprised if the notebook did not have a hard drive. If it has flash memory, it will be used to augment the hard drive, storing that data that will allow less accesses to the hard drive. In the end, this product (if it really does exist) will be a little Macbook, not a large iPhone -- and so the functionality will follow from the computer end of the spectrum. And if you disagree, I would remind you that the article (which is all we have to go on, so we might as well have this lead our speculation) says,
Also setting the new model aside from its existing counterparts, those same people say, may be the conspicuous absence of an optical disc drive. Although Apple's original plans for the notebook called for its inclusion, reports are that the daunting ergonomics have recently driven company engineers to make a concession...
You would not even think of putting an optical drive in a device like the Sony UX-Series; that you find one in the Sony TX-Series is amazing. This is about the size that Apple would have to compromise on whether it's worth having the optical drive.
Guys, think about it..32gb of NAND memory would be awfully expensive.. I personally think they'll do this..
Apple buys like half the world's flash supply. They get it at a massive discount. And if they can put 8 GB of it in a $250 iPod, they can put 16/32 in a MacBook. Flash costs Apple like $10 a GB or so, therefore at least 16 GB should be easy to get into a laptop, and 32 GB is possible.
2. 10.5 has ZFS... ZFS isn't bootable...but NAND memory is (1+1=...)
That makes no sense whatsoever. You're equating a software issue with a hardware option. ZFS's boot issues have absolutely nothing to do with being on a hard drive or being on flash. Apple could just as easily stick their bootloader on a separate HDD partition.
And there's no evidence that 10.5 uses ZFS as its primary filesystem or even has that option. It just has support for ZFS. It might only use it for Time Machine drives or compatibility with some forthcoming Apple product that does use it.
Where do you think they got the idea for these types of shows? There have been such shows in Japan long before they showed up in the US. Most reality TV shows in the US are stolen, er, borowed from the UK and Japan.
Some of these off topic threads are fun ...
True (Archie Bunker amongst many others too, now that's cruelty to watch lol) but at least Simon didn't get ripped off... he learned from the past and brought Idol here himself (well with some help from the Murdochs)
It would be smaller and a little lighter, but any system that uses the LV chips properly won't make much of a scratch in the Japanese market. They pay a premium for the 2-3lb notebooks, and an LV notebook is still around 4 to 5lb region. The systems that win the Japanese market are those that use the ULV chips, and as such, you aren't going to see the 1.66/1.87 GHz chips in a typical subnotebook using current chips. Use the proper chips for the device class, and 8hrs of actual run time would be realistic.
...
Out of curiosity, how many subnotes use discrete video chips? The ones I've seen are all integrated video. I think you simply don't have realistic expectations given the device class. Let's just say it to get it out of the way, you probably will never like the the subnotebook class of computers enough to actually buy one.
It's funny that people think that they will be able to replace their desktop with a sub-notebook. The performance of any Apple sub-notebook will be like buying an old iBook G3, only, because it is utilising newer tech, it will be smaller, and have better battery life.
They're seen as too arrogant by some here too.
Well yeah, 'cause they are. They try an make everyone SEEM humble, and this comes from talking to someone who is constantly going there for business. They really are quite arrogant, and it's just a game they play. Sortof like 'court behaviour', read Machiavelli's forward to the Medici Prince for an example
Core 2 Duo 2Ghz
You got to be kidding, right? Think more like 1.33GHz for a sub-notebook.
And there's no evidence that 10.5 uses ZFS as its primary filesystem or even has that option. It just has support for ZFS. It might only use it for Time Machine drives or compatibility with some forthcoming Apple product that does use it.
Oh, I really hope ZFS is an option... 8)
My Airport Extreme has just fired up with it's USB external hard drive and all Macs on the network are working flawlessly. Not one problem in set up. It also allows something previous secondary routers haven't done (for me at least). My Extreme is running DHCP and attached to a Verizon FiOS router / wi-fi device via ethernet and Apple Extreme is quite happily letting me see and mount Macs on the FiOS wi-fi router. This solves what I expected to be an issue. I can simply switch any 11.g machines over to the FiOS wi-fi if and continue without any hassles if Apple TV is in use to preserve the 11.n networks purity when required.
...and why do i suggest 4gb of NAND memory..couple of reason.
1. 32GB is way overprice and i don't think its ready for use as a main stream hard drive
It would cost Apple about $300. I think that price is enabling.
It would cost Apple about $300. I think that price is enabling.
So? The price to the customer will be $600. Gross margin is not net margin. Just keep in mind the current stable of flash-based notebooks. I can see it being a viable option if Apple doesn't automatically throw on all the software they can. A stock install on a MBP is about 30GB, at least that's what I saw on mine before I started transferring my system from another computer. I'm pretty sure that a 60, 80 or 100GB 1.8" hard drive would be faster and cheaper.
You got to be kidding, right? Think more like 1.33GHz for a sub-notebook.
That's pretty much the kind of thing I've been trying to say. A subnote is a very different animal, you get a lighter, smaller machine that might run for 8 hours on a battery at the expense of money and speed. You are very unlikely to get multi-GHz, discrete graphics and other features on a full-size notebook because it isn't one.
So? The price to the customer will be $600. Gross margin is not net margin. Just keep in mind the current stable of flash-based notebooks. I can see it being a viable option if Apple doesn't automatically throw on all the software they can. A stock install on a MBP is about 30GB, at least that's what I saw on mine before I started transferring my system from another computer. I'm pretty sure that a 60, 80 or 100GB 1.8" hard drive would be faster and cheaper.
If they announce it in June and it ships in August that's half a year of NAND flash price erosion. If you extrapolate the current price trend, that means it will cost about $200 instead of $300. How much do hard drives cost Apple? Probably $50. So the increase in price would be about $150. And the markup isn't 100%. It's around 45% (see iSupplie iMac tear-down). So the extra cost to the consumer will be about $215 - which is well worth it for the power, noise, and space savings.
If they announce it in June and it ships in August that's half a year of NAND flash price erosion. If you extrapolate the current price trend, that means it will cost about $200 instead of $300. How much do hard drives cost Apple? Probably $50. So the increase in price would be about $150. And the markup isn't 100%. It's around 45% (see iSupplie iMac tear-down). So the extra cost to the consumer will be about $215
OK, though it it's a BTO option, I'd expect that upgrading to that drive to be about as expensive as the drive by itself anywhere else.
which is well worth it for the power, noise, and space savings.
I wouldn't go that far. Current notebook hard drives don't consume much power or generate much noise, and the typical 1.8" drives used in a subnote are even thriftier with power and don't make much noise either. My first gen MBP doesn't make any audible difference when it's flailing the hard drive, nor does that part of the notebook get very warm.
Even when assuming the hard drive is on and running most of the time (which is not typical), I think I calculated that a typical 2.5" drive would last about 30 hours on a MBP battery.
Current notebook flash drives aren't any smaller that I've seen either. I still have a hard time believing that a 32GB drive would be useful in an OS X system for reasons I've already noted. A shipping Leopard install + iLife, etc. is probably going to take even more space. Apple would have to really slim down their installations.