I'm pretty curious about this, actually. To view any normal web page, I would think EDGE speeds would be more than adequate. It's about 128kbps, right? So a page that's 100k would take a bit under 10 seconds (it's 12.8 k bytes per second, approximately).
I just loaded up Cingular's plans page, which I had not loaded previously, and it took about 15 seconds for my cable modem and 1.6ghz PowerBook G4 to download and process. So it doesn't seem to me like my effective speeds are that much more than EDGE.
I suppose video content might be a little painful but I don't watch enough video for it to matter that much.
So why are people so bothered by the lack of 3G? It seems like something that's more a feature checkoff than anything that we'll really use.
I'm getting a iPhone, but I don't see how they are calling it a smartphone. It they have some type of kick ass office suite to go with it, and some other type of business apps, I would agree. But they don't have either of those for the Macs, so I doubt they do. I think the iPhone is going to be a kick ass gadget phone, nothing more, nothing less. I just don't like carrying around a cellphone and a iPod, that's why I'm getting one.
Office suite = Google Apps..... more than you'll ever need, and fast and light!
I have a treo 700w. I've never hated anything more in my entire life. I'm very tech savvy, and I know what I'm doing. But if this dang thing crashes one more time, or doesn't pick up a call when I answer it, or if one more app times out, or if one more key goes bad, or if my stylus flys out again just by answering the phone, or if the microphone screeches one more time while taking a video... well, then... I don't know WHAT i'm going to do with myself....short of holding my breath until Appl finally gets this whole thing right for the first time in human history.
I know it's not 'real OSX' running...but man, I can't imagine OSX crashing in such a controlled environment...
From an Australian perspective (and I had thought we were ahead of the US in the mobile phone field but perhaps not):
3G - essentially we don't even have 3G GSM (I think 3 is 3G GSM but limited coverage and crap plans+lock in phones), so who cares.
telstra 'next g' is 3G as well.
i swore i'd only buy japanese phones, and have been happy with my NEC i-mode phone even tho' it is getting a bit long in the tooth. but with my contract finishing in nov. i'll prob get the iPhone. it'll prob be thru telstra (which kinda sucks as they are so inflexible with their plans), tho' telstra have said some negative things about the iPhone recently. by the time it comes out here, it'll be 3G
Blah blah blah. Apple's getting a little ahead of themselves here -- they're soooo sure the iPhone is gonna be such a big hit. Well let me tell you something: a smartphone is not a smartphone unless it is open to 3rd party applications. Otherwise, it's just an overpriced cell phone that nobody's going to pay for, with a minor amount of eye candy that nobody cares about. Not to mention the fact that it has a virtual keyboard which is 100 times harder to type on than a real keyboard. But most importantly is the lack of 3rd party apps, and Apple's insistence that it will not open up the iPhone for 3rd party apps. Unless I can run all of my 3rd-party business apps on the iPhone that I can currently run on my Treo 650, there will be NO SALE to me nor any of my clients. I give the iPhone a BIG THUMBS DOWN.
I gotta say this does not usually bother me but Scotty who on this board really gives a shit if you and or your clients are gonna buy it? I certainly do not give 2 shits. I feel like 30 seconds of my life and now a minute have been completely wasted. Thanks jackass.
Google's online business apps aren't designed for the small screen. Mobile office suites like QuickOffice are. It's important there are business apps.
Also, things that are missing that I have on my p910 and use most days...
Tasks/todo
Jotter for notes
Safe - for storing passwords and other secure info
PDF reader
ssh
Java
Sound Recorder
TomTom Mobile
Expenses
VNC
There's about 30 games on mine too, most of which are open source or emulators - ScummVM, MAME, Lemmings.
Again, we don't even know what is included at this point but most of these would not need to be third party in any case. This is OS X.
Tasks/todo - iCal/calendar
Jotter - Textedit
Safe - keychain (part of Safari wouldn't know why they wouldn't use it.)
PDF reader - part of safari and part of OS X
ssh - terminal/ssh - part of OS X
Java - Frankly won't miss it
Sound Recorder - Agree, if you need it. I won't miss it but not part of OS X
TomTom Mobile - my guess something like this will be certified, we'll see
Expenses - Agree, if you need it
VNC - If you complaining about google apps on a small screen this would be even worse getting another computers full desktop.
The point is most of these are part of OS X and wouldn't need third party apps in any case and we don't know what apple will include. These certainly wouldn't have been part of a demo as they are mostly of limited interest COMPARED to what was shown.
I'm getting a iPhone, but I don't see how they are calling it a smartphone. It they have some type of kick ass office suite to go with it, and some other type of business apps, I would agree. But they don't have either of those for the Macs, so I doubt they do. I think the iPhone is going to be a kick ass gadget phone, nothing more, nothing less. I just don't like carrying around a cellphone and a iPod, that's why I'm getting one.
When did "smartphone" get redefined as "a phone with Office apps"?
PS: I'm sure Cingular would hare it, but I'd love to see a Slingbox-like interaction with my home Mac and my iPhone. This can easily be achieved with a no-hassle setup with QT Streaming Server and a .Mac account.
Google's online business apps aren't designed for the small screen. Mobile office suites like QuickOffice are. It's important there are business apps.
Also, things that are missing that I have on my p910 and use most days...
Tasks/todo
Jotter for notes
Safe - for storing passwords and other secure info
PDF reader
ssh
Java
Sound Recorder
TomTom Mobile
Expenses
VNC
There's about 30 games on mine too, most of which are open source or emulators - ScummVM, MAME, Lemmings.
But these are all PC 'smartphone' type of apps. I mean, that's what a treo is for and windows mobile. Why on earth would I ever want those types of apps on a iPhone...which i'm only think of as a phone, mapping, contacts, googling, etc. device? Once you start putting a bunch of crap on it, you might as well have bough a treo all over again, along with all its instability, crashing, and otherworldly bugginess.
When Appl come out with a trusted OS version of OSX for the iPhone in the next decade, then THAT's when I might entertain SSH'ing into my firewall to configure it. But by then we'll be running triple authentication (bio, pw, and certs) and so I won't fret about losing my phone.
I dunno... I think people are comparing iPhones to smartphones.... it's like comparing Ferrari's to Cadillacs. Just appreciate the g'damn Ferrari for what it is, and stop whining that it doesn't have in-dash DVD players. Like the other poster said...it's not even out yet, so what exactly are we criticizing yet.
The iPhone is not a smartphone....and that's what makes it brilliant.
The lack of 3G was my only disappointment. Cingular has 3G, and it is deployed in my area, and it is even included on my plan already. But I understand 3G sucks power. And it's true, there are tons of open WiFi spots around here. (Perhaps WiFi sucks as much power as 3G? Hmm) Hopefully, the phone will auto-grab any nearby open WiFi spot it is near, and prefer it over EDGE. If it does that, I will survive just fine for 6 months until a 3G model comes out, and my original model will probably sell for a decent price.
There are only 4 ways a Desktop OS can branch into a Mobile OS:
I'm unable to port my desktop OS to a mobile platform, so I'll create a new mobile OS with a UI that mimics the desktop OS because it's familiar, despite it not being ideal for the mobile I/O
I'm unable to port my desktop OS to a mobile platform, so I'll create a a new mobile OS and make a new UI that is ideal for the mobile I/O.
I'm able to port my desktop OS to a mobile platform, but I'm sticking with the desktop UI because it's familiar, despite not being ideal for the mobile I/O.
I'm able to port my desktop OS to a mobile platform, but I'll redo the UI so that is ideal for the mobile I/O.
If you think Verizon rejected Apple, then Apple equally rejected Verizon by not agreeing to Verizon's terms. And the historical timeline shows that Apple worked with Cingular first before going to Verizon. So we don't know if Verizon would've been a second partner or if that overture was supposed to put pressure on Cingular.
Also, Cook's statement on supply and demand wasn't dumb at all. He was asked a question and either it's true he doesn't know (which I doubt) or he didn't want to give out Apple's internal marketing information (which is just a forecast so arguably he can say truthfully that he doesn't know). And he basically said regardless of what demand is, Apple can ramp to meet it just as they did with the iPod. And Apple will probably gage demand by taking pre-orders in May. So what's dumb about that?
And finally, Cook did reveal new information about how Apple's product planning process is radically different from what's being taught in B-schools. Maybe you all guessed this already but in that case, he confirms it. There's more here between the lines...
A: The traditional way that all of us were taught in business school to look at a market was, you look at the products you are selling. You look at the price bands that are curving the market. You think about the price band that your product is in. You assume that you can get a percentage of it. And that is kinda how you get to the addressable market.
This is silly, and dated.
He -- and the people that work for him -- should go back to business school. He might be surprised.
But these are all PC 'smartphone' type of apps. I mean, that's what a treo is for and windows mobile. Why on earth would I ever want those types of apps on a iPhone...which i'm only think of as a phone, mapping, contacts, googling, etc. device? Once you start putting a bunch of crap on it, you might as well have bough a treo all over again, along with all its instability, crashing, and otherworldly bugginess.
Damn right I don't want that kind of buggy crap. That's why I run it all on my totally rock solid Symbian based phone. I don't need a big old crappy Treo or Windows Mobile phone when a smaller Nokia Series 60 or SE UIQ phone runs all those apps just fine. Most of them come free too.
Only problem there is, I reckon Symbian have screwed up with Release 9. It's almost as buggy as the other two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shagghie
When Appl come out with a trusted OS version of OSX for the iPhone in the next decade, then THAT's when I might entertain SSH'ing into my firewall to configure it. But by then we'll be running triple authentication (bio, pw, and certs) and so I won't fret about losing my phone.
Sometimes it's just damn useful to ssh into the server and fix something whilst I'm out. I've ssh on my phone. It's no less safe than sshing in from my Mac. The KVM is Java based so that would be handy too. I can do that now on a cheap Nokia Series 60 phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shagghie
I dunno... I think people are comparing iPhones to smartphones.... it's like comparing Ferrari's to Cadillacs. Just appreciate the g'damn Ferrari for what it is, and stop whining that it doesn't have in-dash DVD players. Like the other poster said...it's not even out yet, so what exactly are we criticizing yet.
The iPhone is not a smartphone....and that's what makes it brilliant.
I wasn't criticising it. Just stating what it would need to actually be useful to me some of which are obviously quite specialised items. No need to get defensive.
Ferraris aren't terribly useful as day to day transport I find.
A: Our thinking first and foremost was that we wanted GSM. Because GSM is the world standard and that was one of the factors in selecting Cingular. Secondly, the product, as we announced, has Wi-Fi capabilities. And so many people, like in this room I'm sure there is Wi-Fi in this room as there are hot spots everywhere -- at your home, where you have coffee, your place of work, etc., etc. -- they're going to use Wi-Fi. And between these spots we are going to use EDGE because it is widely deployed. And we are confident it will give the user a great experience.
Does this imply that the iPhone will do VoIP when it is within range of a WiFi AP?? My understanding was that it did not -- I need to know this; it may effect a business decision.
I think the iPhone is an amazing product but w/o VoIP I can't help feeling like Apple is missing the boat on the real revolution in Telephony.
Comments
What business apps are you looking for???
Google's online business apps aren't designed for the small screen. Mobile office suites like QuickOffice are. It's important there are business apps.
Also, things that are missing that I have on my p910 and use most days...
Tasks/todo
Jotter for notes
Safe - for storing passwords and other secure info
PDF reader
ssh
Java
Sound Recorder
TomTom Mobile
Expenses
VNC
There's about 30 games on mine too, most of which are open source or emulators - ScummVM, MAME, Lemmings.
I just loaded up Cingular's plans page, which I had not loaded previously, and it took about 15 seconds for my cable modem and 1.6ghz PowerBook G4 to download and process. So it doesn't seem to me like my effective speeds are that much more than EDGE.
I suppose video content might be a little painful but I don't watch enough video for it to matter that much.
So why are people so bothered by the lack of 3G? It seems like something that's more a feature checkoff than anything that we'll really use.
D
I'm getting a iPhone, but I don't see how they are calling it a smartphone. It they have some type of kick ass office suite to go with it, and some other type of business apps, I would agree. But they don't have either of those for the Macs, so I doubt they do. I think the iPhone is going to be a kick ass gadget phone, nothing more, nothing less. I just don't like carrying around a cellphone and a iPod, that's why I'm getting one.
Office suite = Google Apps..... more than you'll ever need, and fast and light!
I have a treo 700w. I've never hated anything more in my entire life. I'm very tech savvy, and I know what I'm doing. But if this dang thing crashes one more time, or doesn't pick up a call when I answer it, or if one more app times out, or if one more key goes bad, or if my stylus flys out again just by answering the phone, or if the microphone screeches one more time while taking a video... well, then... I don't know WHAT i'm going to do with myself....short of holding my breath until Appl finally gets this whole thing right for the first time in human history.
I know it's not 'real OSX' running...but man, I can't imagine OSX crashing in such a controlled environment...
From an Australian perspective (and I had thought we were ahead of the US in the mobile phone field but perhaps not):
3G - essentially we don't even have 3G GSM (I think 3 is 3G GSM but limited coverage and crap plans+lock in phones), so who cares.
telstra 'next g' is 3G as well.
i swore i'd only buy japanese phones, and have been happy with my NEC i-mode phone even tho' it is getting a bit long in the tooth. but with my contract finishing in nov. i'll prob get the iPhone. it'll prob be thru telstra (which kinda sucks as they are so inflexible with their plans), tho' telstra have said some negative things about the iPhone recently. by the time it comes out here, it'll be 3G
edit: mrjoec123, great post btw!
Blah blah blah. Apple's getting a little ahead of themselves here -- they're soooo sure the iPhone is gonna be such a big hit. Well let me tell you something: a smartphone is not a smartphone unless it is open to 3rd party applications. Otherwise, it's just an overpriced cell phone that nobody's going to pay for, with a minor amount of eye candy that nobody cares about. Not to mention the fact that it has a virtual keyboard which is 100 times harder to type on than a real keyboard. But most importantly is the lack of 3rd party apps, and Apple's insistence that it will not open up the iPhone for 3rd party apps. Unless I can run all of my 3rd-party business apps on the iPhone that I can currently run on my Treo 650, there will be NO SALE to me nor any of my clients. I give the iPhone a BIG THUMBS DOWN.
I gotta say this does not usually bother me but Scotty who on this board really gives a shit if you and or your clients are gonna buy it? I certainly do not give 2 shits. I feel like 30 seconds of my life and now a minute have been completely wasted. Thanks jackass.
Google's online business apps aren't designed for the small screen. Mobile office suites like QuickOffice are. It's important there are business apps.
Also, things that are missing that I have on my p910 and use most days...
Tasks/todo
Jotter for notes
Safe - for storing passwords and other secure info
PDF reader
ssh
Java
Sound Recorder
TomTom Mobile
Expenses
VNC
There's about 30 games on mine too, most of which are open source or emulators - ScummVM, MAME, Lemmings.
Again, we don't even know what is included at this point but most of these would not need to be third party in any case. This is OS X.
Tasks/todo - iCal/calendar
Jotter - Textedit
Safe - keychain (part of Safari wouldn't know why they wouldn't use it.)
PDF reader - part of safari and part of OS X
ssh - terminal/ssh - part of OS X
Java - Frankly won't miss it
Sound Recorder - Agree, if you need it. I won't miss it but not part of OS X
TomTom Mobile - my guess something like this will be certified, we'll see
Expenses - Agree, if you need it
VNC - If you complaining about google apps on a small screen this would be even worse getting another computers full desktop.
The point is most of these are part of OS X and wouldn't need third party apps in any case and we don't know what apple will include. These certainly wouldn't have been part of a demo as they are mostly of limited interest COMPARED to what was shown.
I'm getting a iPhone, but I don't see how they are calling it a smartphone. It they have some type of kick ass office suite to go with it, and some other type of business apps, I would agree. But they don't have either of those for the Macs, so I doubt they do. I think the iPhone is going to be a kick ass gadget phone, nothing more, nothing less. I just don't like carrying around a cellphone and a iPod, that's why I'm getting one.
When did "smartphone" get redefined as "a phone with Office apps"?
PS: I'm sure Cingular would hare it, but I'd love to see a Slingbox-like interaction with my home Mac and my iPhone. This can easily be achieved with a no-hassle setup with QT Streaming Server and a .Mac account.
Google's online business apps aren't designed for the small screen. Mobile office suites like QuickOffice are. It's important there are business apps.
Also, things that are missing that I have on my p910 and use most days...
Tasks/todo
Jotter for notes
Safe - for storing passwords and other secure info
PDF reader
ssh
Java
Sound Recorder
TomTom Mobile
Expenses
VNC
There's about 30 games on mine too, most of which are open source or emulators - ScummVM, MAME, Lemmings.
But these are all PC 'smartphone' type of apps. I mean, that's what a treo is for and windows mobile. Why on earth would I ever want those types of apps on a iPhone...which i'm only think of as a phone, mapping, contacts, googling, etc. device? Once you start putting a bunch of crap on it, you might as well have bough a treo all over again, along with all its instability, crashing, and otherworldly bugginess.
When Appl come out with a trusted OS version of OSX for the iPhone in the next decade, then THAT's when I might entertain SSH'ing into my firewall to configure it. But by then we'll be running triple authentication (bio, pw, and certs) and so I won't fret about losing my phone.
I dunno... I think people are comparing iPhones to smartphones.... it's like comparing Ferrari's to Cadillacs. Just appreciate the g'damn Ferrari for what it is, and stop whining that it doesn't have in-dash DVD players. Like the other poster said...it's not even out yet, so what exactly are we criticizing yet.
The iPhone is not a smartphone....and that's what makes it brilliant.
finally!
s
I know it's not 'real OSX' running
Damn straight it is OS X. It has Darwin, Cocoa, Core Animation, Security Features and Battery Optimization. It's OS X.
Sebastian
I know it's not 'real OSX' running...
There are only 4 ways a Desktop OS can branch into a Mobile OS:
- I'm unable to port my desktop OS to a mobile platform, so I'll create a new mobile OS with a UI that mimics the desktop OS because it's familiar, despite it not being ideal for the mobile I/O
- I'm unable to port my desktop OS to a mobile platform, so I'll create a a new mobile OS and make a new UI that is ideal for the mobile I/O.
- I'm able to port my desktop OS to a mobile platform, but I'm sticking with the desktop UI because it's familiar, despite not being ideal for the mobile I/O.
- I'm able to port my desktop OS to a mobile platform, but I'll redo the UI so that is ideal for the mobile I/O.
Can you guess which ones are OS X and Windows?telstra 'next g' is 3G as well.
NextG is CDMA, not GSM, and hence not relevant to future 3G iPhones.
Also, Cook's statement on supply and demand wasn't dumb at all. He was asked a question and either it's true he doesn't know (which I doubt) or he didn't want to give out Apple's internal marketing information (which is just a forecast so arguably he can say truthfully that he doesn't know). And he basically said regardless of what demand is, Apple can ramp to meet it just as they did with the iPod. And Apple will probably gage demand by taking pre-orders in May. So what's dumb about that?
And finally, Cook did reveal new information about how Apple's product planning process is radically different from what's being taught in B-schools. Maybe you all guessed this already but in that case, he confirms it. There's more here between the lines...
A: The traditional way that all of us were taught in business school to look at a market was, you look at the products you are selling. You look at the price bands that are curving the market. You think about the price band that your product is in. You assume that you can get a percentage of it. And that is kinda how you get to the addressable market.
This is silly, and dated.
He -- and the people that work for him -- should go back to business school. He might be surprised.
But these are all PC 'smartphone' type of apps. I mean, that's what a treo is for and windows mobile. Why on earth would I ever want those types of apps on a iPhone...which i'm only think of as a phone, mapping, contacts, googling, etc. device? Once you start putting a bunch of crap on it, you might as well have bough a treo all over again, along with all its instability, crashing, and otherworldly bugginess.
Damn right I don't want that kind of buggy crap. That's why I run it all on my totally rock solid Symbian based phone. I don't need a big old crappy Treo or Windows Mobile phone when a smaller Nokia Series 60 or SE UIQ phone runs all those apps just fine. Most of them come free too.
Only problem there is, I reckon Symbian have screwed up with Release 9. It's almost as buggy as the other two.
When Appl come out with a trusted OS version of OSX for the iPhone in the next decade, then THAT's when I might entertain SSH'ing into my firewall to configure it. But by then we'll be running triple authentication (bio, pw, and certs) and so I won't fret about losing my phone.
Sometimes it's just damn useful to ssh into the server and fix something whilst I'm out. I've ssh on my phone. It's no less safe than sshing in from my Mac. The KVM is Java based so that would be handy too. I can do that now on a cheap Nokia Series 60 phone.
I dunno... I think people are comparing iPhones to smartphones.... it's like comparing Ferrari's to Cadillacs. Just appreciate the g'damn Ferrari for what it is, and stop whining that it doesn't have in-dash DVD players. Like the other poster said...it's not even out yet, so what exactly are we criticizing yet.
The iPhone is not a smartphone....and that's what makes it brilliant.
I wasn't criticising it. Just stating what it would need to actually be useful to me some of which are obviously quite specialised items. No need to get defensive.
Ferraris aren't terribly useful as day to day transport I find.
A: Our thinking first and foremost was that we wanted GSM. Because GSM is the world standard and that was one of the factors in selecting Cingular. Secondly, the product, as we announced, has Wi-Fi capabilities. And so many people, like in this room I'm sure there is Wi-Fi in this room as there are hot spots everywhere -- at your home, where you have coffee, your place of work, etc., etc. -- they're going to use Wi-Fi. And between these spots we are going to use EDGE because it is widely deployed. And we are confident it will give the user a great experience.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
Does this imply that the iPhone will do VoIP when it is within range of a WiFi AP?? My understanding was that it did not -- I need to know this; it may effect a business decision.
I think the iPhone is an amazing product but w/o VoIP I can't help feeling like Apple is missing the boat on the real revolution in Telephony.
K
What business apps are you looking for???
There will be
Calendar
Contacts
e-mail (great e-mail)
browser (great browser)
And, I've said this elsewhere, with Safari on the phone you have (will have soon - its committed to) docs.google.com so you have
Word
Excel
This is more than I will need.
Heard of PPT?