The City has Leverage. The place where they hope to build the stadium has a piece of land owned my San Francisco (a piece of land with a pipe underneath) so who knows. Personally I was never a sports fan though.
I'm not sure what a "proper PDF viewer can be expected to do on a small mobile device, other than to open the file, and have it appear somewhat like the original.
While I can't speak for others, I've had to open a lot of professionally composed PDF's for printing, and the thought of having to do that on a 480 x 320 device disgusts me. As long as it can be read, and the layout is sort of correct, that should be enough.
I was answering sepcifically to the point that the current PDF viewer on the iPhone as suggested by Pogue was that it was built in to Safari or Mail. Like trying to view a PDF in Safari on the desktop was bad enough, on a small screen is worse.
A 'proper' PDF viewer has navigation, an index, page numbering, zoom in/out. On small form factors like PDAs and phones they may also reformat the text so it's more readable taking the text out of the PDF instead of accurately showing the PDF. It makes reading ebooks much easier IME.
The layout doesn't always need to be correct, it needs to be suited to the device you're displaying it on. This is what some of the better PDF ebook readers do.
Did you not see Jobs send a picture to a email address off his phone?
Completely useless if the other person doesn't have an email address accessible on their phone, whereas most people have MMS now, at least in Europe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrunn
And why do you need a full word processor on your phone?
To read and write full documents?
Some people do that you know. I used to turn copy in for magazines from a PalmVx, an early serial cable based modem phone and a fold out keyboard. The screen on the iPhone is six times bigger than the PalmVx I used to use. Add a bluetooth keyboard and a text editor that works in landscape mode and it'd be pretty useful and save me from having to carry a laptop.
I was answering sepcifically to the point that the current PDF viewer on the iPhone as suggested by Pogue was that it was built in to Safari or Mail. Like trying to view a PDF in Safari on the desktop was bad enough, on a small screen is worse.
A 'proper' PDF viewer has navigation, an index, page numbering, zoom in/out. On small form factors like PDAs and phones they may also reformat the text so it's more readable taking the text out of the PDF instead of accurately showing the PDF. It makes reading ebooks much easier IME.
The layout doesn't always need to be correct, it needs to be suited to the device you're displaying it on. This is what some of the better PDF ebook readers do.
Yes, of course. But, a simple version of Preview should be enough.
Bingo!! You said it very well! (Most of us spend our time howling in forums such these that what we want -- or have -- is what the world needs, and that what is unimportant to us, the world does not need).
Exactly. I've no wish for Apple to make stuff that meets all my needs. (It'd be nice, but it'll never happen and their stuff wouldn't have such mass appeal if it did.) But for goodness sake, make it extendable by third parties, so I can form my own solution!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrunn
Did you not see Jobs send a picture to a email address off his phone?
And why do you need a full word processor on your phone?
I saw him send to email. I meant, there is no way to send to another phone, knowing only the phone number. When any crappy camera phone can do that, and it's a feature I use all the time, it's hard to justify why it should be left out.
Word processor: to write stuff. I don't always want to carry a laptop, but would still like to work on assignments, take notes whilst in the library, and a number of other such things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis
Quote:
Presentation remote control a la Salling Clicker
Ditto iTunes control
SSH client
MSN messenger (and no, AIM will not do)
MMS, which does not seem to be included. (It seems from the demos that there is no way to send an image to someone else's phone, which is ridiculous!)
Full word processor
Database that can sync with main computer, particularly for expense tracking
Not Sure Why
Ditto on Not Sure
There will likely be some form of Encryption
Ask Microsoft, not Apple
Try Email, it was in the Keynote
Why?
No Comment
Sebastian
EXACTLY!!!! This proves my point in its entirety. I've listed what I want on a phone, and Sebastian cannot see the point of some of it. Doesn't that suggest that third party software is the way to go?
As it happens, to justify Salling Clicker, we use my laptop (with keynote) and my phone (with clicker) to control the liturgy on the projector at church every week. If my new phone cannot do that, we have to buy another remote. Itunes control is for parties when I'm doing the music, so I can take requests without sitting at the desk.
Regarding MSN, I can't ask Microsoft, because the iPhone is a closed platform! I am not asking Apple to write an MSN client. Just open the damned APIs so that other people can write one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella
So email is useless now. I don't know about Europe, but here people still use computers and email.
Email is not useless. But if I've just taken a snapshot of a drunken mate arsing about and I want to send it to Bob with a "Look what Bill's up to!", then email is overkill.
Aside from that, I don't know the email addresses of half the people in my phone book. Nor should I have to. When the cellular network can transmit photos, and I want to send a photo from one phone to another, why should I have to go elsewhere?
Also, sending an MMS is about 15p, if I've used up my monthly allowance. If I have not used them all up, an MMS is free. But an email is likely to cost significantly more, take a lot longer to get there, require the person at the other end to be near a computer and generally be less useful.
Exactly. I've no wish for Apple to make stuff that meets all my needs. (It'd be nice, but it'll never happen and their stuff wouldn't have such mass appeal if it did.) But for goodness sake, make it extendable by third parties, so I can form my own solution!
I saw him send to email. I meant, there is no way to send to another phone, knowing only the phone number. When any crappy camera phone can do that, and it's a feature I use all the time, it's hard to justify why it should be left out.
Word processor: to write stuff. I don't always want to carry a laptop, but would still like to work on assignments, take notes whilst in the library, and a number of other such things.
EXACTLY!!!! This proves my point in its entirety. I've listed what I want on a phone, and Sebastian cannot see the point of some of it. Doesn't that suggest that third party software is the way to go?
As it happens, to justify Salling Clicker, we use my laptop (with keynote) and my phone (with clicker) to control the liturgy on the projector at church every week. If my new phone cannot do that, we have to buy another remote. Itunes control is for parties when I'm doing the music, so I can take requests without sitting at the desk.
Regarding MSN, I can't ask Microsoft, because the iPhone is a closed platform! I am not asking Apple to write an MSN client. Just open the damned APIs so that other people can write one!
Email is not useless. But if I've just taken a snapshot of a drunken mate arsing about and I want to send it to Bob with a "Look what Bill's up to!", then email is overkill.
Aside from that, I don't know the email addresses of half the people in my phone book. Nor should I have to. When the cellular network can transmit photos, and I want to send a photo from one phone to another, why should I have to go elsewhere?
Also, sending an MMS is about 15p, if I've used up my monthly allowance. If I have not used them all up, an MMS is free. But an email is likely to cost significantly more, take a lot longer to get there, require the person at the other end to be near a computer and generally be less useful.
Amorya
I'm curious, who was it that said that the iPhone wouldn't allow any type of 3rd party software just because it's a "Closed Platform" ?
I'm curious, who was it that said that the iPhone wouldn't allow any type of 3rd party software just because it's a "Closed Platform" ?
Sebastian
It's not been officially announced, but that's the popular perception on the net. That Apple may create their own downloadable (for money) programs for it, but no-one else is able to, similar to iPod games.
It's not been officially announced, but that's the popular perception on the net. That Apple may create their own downloadable (for money) programs for it, but no-one else is able to, similar to iPod games.
Amorya
Or perhaps developers will be able to sell their own software through iTunes, and software through iTunes was tested with the games.
Either way, Apple has it closed to control quality, given a chance to do it again, I'd actually find it easier to do it this way because there would be one place where I could go and download Software for my Mac without worry. But popular perception or not, the Net does not control what Apple will or won't do.
It's not been officially announced, but that's the popular perception on the net. That Apple may create their own downloadable (for money) programs for it, but no-one else is able to, similar to iPod games.
Amorya
Except that you are wrong.
Jobs never said that. He said that third parties would have to run their programs through Apple, so that Apple cxould decide whether the program would be alright from a quality standpoint. While that will allow Apple to set the standards, and decide what goes on, it does allow third parties to write software for it.
I posted the proper quotes from Jobs about this several times, but now, I can't seem to find the article, even though I bookmarked it under "iPhone".
I saw him send to email. I meant, there is no way to send to another phone, knowing only the phone number. When any crappy camera phone can do that, and it's a feature I use all the time, it's hard to justify why it should be left out.
How do you know it can't? Didnt know the iPhone was out yet.
You know that your phone number has a email address right?
On the former point, I'm basing it on the fact that when Steve popped up his Send Picture dialog, there was no MMS option, only email or bluetooth. If this changes, and they add the option, then that's great and I'll stop bitching (on that point!)
Regarding SMS-to-email gateways: most of them do text only, and it still requires knowing more than the user's phone number (i.e. their SMS email address, which is different per network). Such tech hasn't taken off in England... I don't know anyone who publicises an SMS email address. I have no idea if I have even got one.
He said that third parties would have to run their programs through Apple, so that Apple cxould decide whether the program would be alright from a quality standpoint.
That's as much of an assumption as I made. He said Apple would control all the software, thus maintaining a quality standard. You could take that to mean that third parties can write, and get it approved... although I'd wager that if they can, it'll be the big companies that get the approval (or those with lots of money). You could also take it as Apple just write all the software and there is no third party stuff at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis
Either way, Apple has it closed to control quality
I don't buy that excuse. They have it closed to control profit.
I don't buy that excuse. They have it closed to control profit.
Amorya
It doesn't matter how or why they have it closed, that still doesn't equal out to be absolutely no 3rd party software. Anyways, Apple doesn't profit from iTunes very much, they make about 4 cents for every song downloaded and they put that back into managing the store.
That's as much of an assumption as I made. He said Apple would control all the software, thus maintaining a quality standard. You could take that to mean that third parties can write, and get it approved... although I'd wager that if they can, it'll be the big companies that get the approval (or those with lots of money). You could also take it as Apple just write all the software and there is no third party stuff at all.
No, he said that there would be third party software. I just can't find that article right now.
Comments
You lock it up. They're not going anywhere...yet.
Officially.
Maybe.
Hopefully.
Fuck.
The City has Leverage. The place where they hope to build the stadium has a piece of land owned my San Francisco (a piece of land with a pipe underneath) so who knows. Personally I was never a sports fan though.
Sebastian
I'm not sure what a "proper PDF viewer can be expected to do on a small mobile device, other than to open the file, and have it appear somewhat like the original.
While I can't speak for others, I've had to open a lot of professionally composed PDF's for printing, and the thought of having to do that on a 480 x 320 device disgusts me. As long as it can be read, and the layout is sort of correct, that should be enough.
I was answering sepcifically to the point that the current PDF viewer on the iPhone as suggested by Pogue was that it was built in to Safari or Mail. Like trying to view a PDF in Safari on the desktop was bad enough, on a small screen is worse.
A 'proper' PDF viewer has navigation, an index, page numbering, zoom in/out. On small form factors like PDAs and phones they may also reformat the text so it's more readable taking the text out of the PDF instead of accurately showing the PDF. It makes reading ebooks much easier IME.
The layout doesn't always need to be correct, it needs to be suited to the device you're displaying it on. This is what some of the better PDF ebook readers do.
Did you not see Jobs send a picture to a email address off his phone?
Completely useless if the other person doesn't have an email address accessible on their phone, whereas most people have MMS now, at least in Europe.
And why do you need a full word processor on your phone?
To read and write full documents?
Some people do that you know. I used to turn copy in for magazines from a PalmVx, an early serial cable based modem phone and a fold out keyboard. The screen on the iPhone is six times bigger than the PalmVx I used to use. Add a bluetooth keyboard and a text editor that works in landscape mode and it'd be pretty useful and save me from having to carry a laptop.
I was answering sepcifically to the point that the current PDF viewer on the iPhone as suggested by Pogue was that it was built in to Safari or Mail. Like trying to view a PDF in Safari on the desktop was bad enough, on a small screen is worse.
A 'proper' PDF viewer has navigation, an index, page numbering, zoom in/out. On small form factors like PDAs and phones they may also reformat the text so it's more readable taking the text out of the PDF instead of accurately showing the PDF. It makes reading ebooks much easier IME.
The layout doesn't always need to be correct, it needs to be suited to the device you're displaying it on. This is what some of the better PDF ebook readers do.
Yes, of course. But, a simple version of Preview should be enough.
Completely useless if the other person doesn't have an email address accessible on their phone, whereas most people have MMS now, at least in Europe.
So email is useless now. I don't know about Europe, but here people still use computers and email.
Bingo!! You said it very well! (Most of us spend our time howling in forums such these that what we want -- or have -- is what the world needs, and that what is unimportant to us, the world does not need).
Exactly. I've no wish for Apple to make stuff that meets all my needs. (It'd be nice, but it'll never happen and their stuff wouldn't have such mass appeal if it did.) But for goodness sake, make it extendable by third parties, so I can form my own solution!
Did you not see Jobs send a picture to a email address off his phone?
And why do you need a full word processor on your phone?
I saw him send to email. I meant, there is no way to send to another phone, knowing only the phone number. When any crappy camera phone can do that, and it's a feature I use all the time, it's hard to justify why it should be left out.
Word processor: to write stuff. I don't always want to carry a laptop, but would still like to work on assignments, take notes whilst in the library, and a number of other such things.
Presentation remote control a la Salling Clicker
Ditto iTunes control
SSH client
MSN messenger (and no, AIM will not do)
MMS, which does not seem to be included. (It seems from the demos that there is no way to send an image to someone else's phone, which is ridiculous!)
Full word processor
Database that can sync with main computer, particularly for expense tracking
- Not Sure Why
- Ditto on Not Sure
- There will likely be some form of Encryption
- Ask Microsoft, not Apple
- Try Email, it was in the Keynote
- Why?
- No Comment
SebastianEXACTLY!!!! This proves my point in its entirety. I've listed what I want on a phone, and Sebastian cannot see the point of some of it. Doesn't that suggest that third party software is the way to go?
As it happens, to justify Salling Clicker, we use my laptop (with keynote) and my phone (with clicker) to control the liturgy on the projector at church every week. If my new phone cannot do that, we have to buy another remote. Itunes control is for parties when I'm doing the music, so I can take requests without sitting at the desk.
Regarding MSN, I can't ask Microsoft, because the iPhone is a closed platform! I am not asking Apple to write an MSN client. Just open the damned APIs so that other people can write one!
So email is useless now. I don't know about Europe, but here people still use computers and email.
Email is not useless. But if I've just taken a snapshot of a drunken mate arsing about and I want to send it to Bob with a "Look what Bill's up to!", then email is overkill.
Aside from that, I don't know the email addresses of half the people in my phone book. Nor should I have to. When the cellular network can transmit photos, and I want to send a photo from one phone to another, why should I have to go elsewhere?
Also, sending an MMS is about 15p, if I've used up my monthly allowance. If I have not used them all up, an MMS is free. But an email is likely to cost significantly more, take a lot longer to get there, require the person at the other end to be near a computer and generally be less useful.
Amorya
Exactly. I've no wish for Apple to make stuff that meets all my needs. (It'd be nice, but it'll never happen and their stuff wouldn't have such mass appeal if it did.) But for goodness sake, make it extendable by third parties, so I can form my own solution!
I saw him send to email. I meant, there is no way to send to another phone, knowing only the phone number. When any crappy camera phone can do that, and it's a feature I use all the time, it's hard to justify why it should be left out.
Word processor: to write stuff. I don't always want to carry a laptop, but would still like to work on assignments, take notes whilst in the library, and a number of other such things.
EXACTLY!!!! This proves my point in its entirety. I've listed what I want on a phone, and Sebastian cannot see the point of some of it. Doesn't that suggest that third party software is the way to go?
As it happens, to justify Salling Clicker, we use my laptop (with keynote) and my phone (with clicker) to control the liturgy on the projector at church every week. If my new phone cannot do that, we have to buy another remote. Itunes control is for parties when I'm doing the music, so I can take requests without sitting at the desk.
Regarding MSN, I can't ask Microsoft, because the iPhone is a closed platform! I am not asking Apple to write an MSN client. Just open the damned APIs so that other people can write one!
Email is not useless. But if I've just taken a snapshot of a drunken mate arsing about and I want to send it to Bob with a "Look what Bill's up to!", then email is overkill.
Aside from that, I don't know the email addresses of half the people in my phone book. Nor should I have to. When the cellular network can transmit photos, and I want to send a photo from one phone to another, why should I have to go elsewhere?
Also, sending an MMS is about 15p, if I've used up my monthly allowance. If I have not used them all up, an MMS is free. But an email is likely to cost significantly more, take a lot longer to get there, require the person at the other end to be near a computer and generally be less useful.
Amorya
I'm curious, who was it that said that the iPhone wouldn't allow any type of 3rd party software just because it's a "Closed Platform" ?
Sebastian
I'm curious, who was it that said that the iPhone wouldn't allow any type of 3rd party software just because it's a "Closed Platform" ?
Sebastian
It's not been officially announced, but that's the popular perception on the net. That Apple may create their own downloadable (for money) programs for it, but no-one else is able to, similar to iPod games.
Amorya
It's not been officially announced, but that's the popular perception on the net. That Apple may create their own downloadable (for money) programs for it, but no-one else is able to, similar to iPod games.
Amorya
Or perhaps developers will be able to sell their own software through iTunes, and software through iTunes was tested with the games.
Either way, Apple has it closed to control quality, given a chance to do it again, I'd actually find it easier to do it this way because there would be one place where I could go and download Software for my Mac without worry. But popular perception or not, the Net does not control what Apple will or won't do.
Sebastian
It's not been officially announced, but that's the popular perception on the net. That Apple may create their own downloadable (for money) programs for it, but no-one else is able to, similar to iPod games.
Amorya
Except that you are wrong.
Jobs never said that. He said that third parties would have to run their programs through Apple, so that Apple cxould decide whether the program would be alright from a quality standpoint. While that will allow Apple to set the standards, and decide what goes on, it does allow third parties to write software for it.
I posted the proper quotes from Jobs about this several times, but now, I can't seem to find the article, even though I bookmarked it under "iPhone".
Perhaps someone else will have it handy.
I saw him send to email. I meant, there is no way to send to another phone, knowing only the phone number. When any crappy camera phone can do that, and it's a feature I use all the time, it's hard to justify why it should be left out.
How do you know it can't? Didnt know the iPhone was out yet.
You know that your phone number has a email address right?
SMS 411
How do you know it can't? Didnt know the iPhone was out yet.
You know that your phone number has a email address right?
SMS 411
On the former point, I'm basing it on the fact that when Steve popped up his Send Picture dialog, there was no MMS option, only email or bluetooth. If this changes, and they add the option, then that's great and I'll stop bitching (on that point!)
Regarding SMS-to-email gateways: most of them do text only, and it still requires knowing more than the user's phone number (i.e. their SMS email address, which is different per network). Such tech hasn't taken off in England... I don't know anyone who publicises an SMS email address. I have no idea if I have even got one.
Amorya
He said that third parties would have to run their programs through Apple, so that Apple cxould decide whether the program would be alright from a quality standpoint.
That's as much of an assumption as I made. He said Apple would control all the software, thus maintaining a quality standard. You could take that to mean that third parties can write, and get it approved... although I'd wager that if they can, it'll be the big companies that get the approval (or those with lots of money). You could also take it as Apple just write all the software and there is no third party stuff at all.
Either way, Apple has it closed to control quality
I don't buy that excuse. They have it closed to control profit.
Amorya
I don't buy that excuse. They have it closed to control profit.
Amorya
It doesn't matter how or why they have it closed, that still doesn't equal out to be absolutely no 3rd party software. Anyways, Apple doesn't profit from iTunes very much, they make about 4 cents for every song downloaded and they put that back into managing the store.
Sebastian
That's as much of an assumption as I made. He said Apple would control all the software, thus maintaining a quality standard. You could take that to mean that third parties can write, and get it approved... although I'd wager that if they can, it'll be the big companies that get the approval (or those with lots of money). You could also take it as Apple just write all the software and there is no third party stuff at all.
No, he said that there would be third party software. I just can't find that article right now.