Leopard out in the next few weeks? Wow. Where is 10.4.9 then? Due out in a few hours?
So, does .9 come out with Leopard?
The unprecedented 6 month time frame currently between 10.4.8 and 10.4.9 screams to me that Apple has no plans to release Leopard anytime soon. I expect Leopard to be release no sooner than 5 to 8 weeks after the 10.4.9 update in released.
i don't know much about shaires and the like but if these guys are saying sooner rather than later then wouln't they look really silly if they were wrong and stock buyers lose all faith in them ?????
Let me retort with this then... What could be holding back development for so long? OS X is robust and mature and has been for years. What could they be doing to the OS that would cause it to be so unstable? Are the time machine plus the graphic engine changes so complex that they have destabilzed the OS for much longer than expected? Did Apple change course midway through development like MS did? Something fishy is going on here
Core Animation and resolution independence seem like pretty big steps to take.
Out of curiosity, why would this not be possible? Apple seems overly paranoid about this release and its features.
Do you know how many people here have already suggested this? Do you know how many times it's been refuted?
Apple has to work with its developers. Apple depends on them to get working versions of their software out as quickly, and as cleanly, as they can.
While a developer can't finish their package, if it's a complex piece of software, until the OS is released, because of the possibility of last minute changes, it takes them months to work out their new releases.
If Apple hides major features, and gives them packages with now non-extent bugs, just how do you expect them to work on their software, and to give Apple the proper feedback?
They can't.
You have obviously never beta tested a product.
These "secret sauce" comments are from those who want to see this software out *right now*, and are trying to find excuses as to how it can happen, in the face of evidence that it isn't nearly ready.
As I already said, if major features can be, and are dropped, it might happen?it happened with 10.4.
Let me retort with this then... What could be holding back development for so long? OS X is robust and mature and has been for years. What could they be doing to the OS that would cause it to be so unstable? Are the time machine plus the graphic engine changes so complex that they have destabilzed the OS for much longer than expected? Did Apple change course midway through development like MS did? Something fishy is going on here
The only thing fishy here is this idea you, and some others, have.
Apple promised that we would have the new version of Quartz for 10.4. We didn't.
Then we speculated that as Apple promised it for the release, it would come in a later update. Unless it comes at the last minute, in 10.4.9, Apple will have missed it by two years.
Why is it so hard to believe that major changes, and additions, to an OS are difficult to massage?
Often adding, or changing one area, will result in bugs, or unexpected results in other, seemingly unrelated, areas.
I had that same problem in electronics I designed. Change one component, and something else would have to be changed. Sometimes the changes would cascade throughout the entire design. When you got to the end, you would then find that your original change had to be changed again, and so on, until you had reworked the entire project.
I don't buy the 'external', 'internal' builds arguement either. Vista is out and isn't going to change for some time if ever. Why would Apple need to have two builds?
It's not about keeping it a secret from Microsoft.
It's about keeping it a secret from you and me.
Steve Jobs is a master showman and marketer.
He knows that secrecy creates buzz, speculation, rumors and interest.
Some here have "suggested" that Apple has external and internal tracks for the OS, with the internal one having all of the features working, and most of the bugs quashed, but that's hardly credible.
Well I could see having a separate internal build with "secret features" and an external with them stripped out. That is feasible to a degree and also the "slight" possibility with the removal adding to bugs. Releasing a stripped version to developers that has bugs not in an internal version doesn't make sense at all. Why have developers report on bugs that are already fixed/not present in internal builds? So in the end, I see 2 builds, one internal with Steve's super secrets, one external with those stripped out, and at the same point in the build both have the same bugs as reported by developers.
Well I could see having a separate internal build with "secret features" and an external with them stripped out. That is feasible to a degree and also the "slight" possibility with the removal adding to bugs. Releasing a stripped version to developers that has bugs not in an internal version doesn't make sense at all. Why have developers report on bugs that are already fixed/not present in internal builds? So in the end, I see 2 builds, one internal with Steve's super secrets, one external with those stripped out, and at the same point in the build both have the same bugs as reported by developers.
What purpose would be served by Apple having two teams working on the release? One with the *secret features*, and one for developers without it? Do you think Apple needs the expense, and inevitable confusion within their own organization from that?
And what purpose would be served by keeping developers in the dark so that they can't take advantage of these new features that Apple thinks are so important that they are willing to hide them?
So, now developers will have to wait until the OS is released to even see these features? What about new programs that are coming out in time for the release? What about major developers such as MS and Adobe who have major programs scheduled for release about the same time as the OS?
They can't take advantage of these new features that Apple will be saying they have to modify their programs to use.
What is the point of that? So, we will have to wait 6 months to a year to see these new "killer" features working in major programs? We will have rez independence with no programs able to take advantage of it?
Other features as well?
How embarrassing! And how angry these developers will be. And rightly so!
Ok, enough of all this speculation, let me drop my turd into the pile:
OS X Leopard will have the features you see in the builds. Exactly that and not much more other than some Finder updates.
THE BIG NEWS will be that iLife will have several new apps which 'overlay' Leopard and require Leopard to run. This is where the 'cool' new functionality will exist.
My own feelings about Apple's 2007's sales is that they will be higher than that. I can't see less than $26 billion. If Apple comes out with new machines in the not too distant future, with iPods selling at almost 50% higher levels than last year, with the ATv about to appear, decent sales of the iPhone, and good sales of hopefully upgraded software, we might see sales at even higher levels.
I've seen estimates of up to, and even exceeding, $30 billion, though that would be extreme.
That would be HUGE on the stock's upside, if that happens. Did a quick check of some recently released FY2007 forecasts by a few analysts:
Pacific Crest (3/1/07): $24 billion
Bear Stearns (3/5/07): $24 billion
Prudential (3/5/07): $24.6 billion
Piper Jaffray (3/5/07): $25.4 bilion
Average = $24.5 billion. (Looks like the ThinkEquity guy is right at the average).
If the data come in as hoped for, they'll all be in a drip-drip-drip mode of upward revisions, and that makes for a potentially nice year for the stock!
Ok, enough of all this speculation, let me drop my turd into the pile:
OS X Leopard will have the features you see in the builds. Exactly that and not much more other than some Finder updates.
THE BIG NEWS will be that iLife will have several new apps which 'overlay' Leopard and require Leopard to run. This is where the 'cool' new functionality will exist.
Chew on that turd for awhile and get back to me.
Dude, I really hope you are wrong about that. That's one hell of a turd. How do you "know" this turd to be fact? iLife should NOT be considered "features" of an OS. iLife is a group of applications. Great apps, but not something that should be called "Top Secret" features of Leopard. Top Secret features would be more along the lines of ZFS/bootcamp/virtualization/new UI/multitouch/etc.
That would be HUGE on the stock's upside, if that happens. Did a quick check of some recently released FY2007 forecasts by a few analysts:
Pacific Crest (3/1/07): $24 billion
Bear Stearns (3/5/07): $24 billion
Prudential (3/5/07): $24.6 billion
Piper Jaffray (3/5/07): $25.4 bilion
Average = $24.5 billion. (Looks like the ThinkEquity guy is right at the average).
If the data come in as hoped for, they'll all be in a drip-drip-drip mode of upward revisions, and that makes for a potentially nice year for the stock!
These guys forcast from what they know now. That's what they have to do. If things change, so do their forcasts.
They are responsable to their clients, and to the SEC as well.
I am not. I can speculate from what I THINK will happen, based on somewhat more tenuous information going forward. They have to wait until it gets here.
It's not about keeping it a secret from Microsoft.
It's about keeping it a secret from you and me.
Steve Jobs is a master showman and marketer.
He knows that secrecy creates buzz, speculation, rumors and interest.
Apple's strongest play right now would be to reveal Leopard's secrets and splash them all over the place. Why? To interrupt the PC churn cycle to Vista.
Apple should be running an ad campaign that says:
"Hey, Microsoft is making you buy a new PC just to get a new pretty look. Why not buy a new Mac and get more? And when our new OSX is ready, no new Mac just a $129 upgrade and you're there. Wanna see what we're talking about?"
Then run some Leopard features by them.
That would be the strongest marketing position for creating switchers.
The only plausible for reason for not having revealed more of Leopard's spots is that they are not ready.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
There is no purpose served by Apple keeping it secret it this time. If the NDA doesn't work, well, it's almost showtime anyway.
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
What is the point of that? So, we will have to wait 6 months to a year to see these new "killer" features working in major programs? We will have rez independence with no programs able to take advantage of it?
Other features as well?
How embarrassing! And how angry these developers will be. And rightly so!
Again, yes.
Keep it simple. No grand conspiracies. No double blind builds that screw software developers.
i don't know much about shaires and the like but if these guys are saying sooner rather than later then wouln't they look really silly if they were wrong and stock buyers lose all faith in them ?????
so surly they get a little insider knowledge .
whan ever it comes i think it will be amazing.
LOL, well I hope they don't have "insider trading info".
I just hope that Apple does not do like M$ and remove important features to make a date. I rather wait and get the full effect.
YES - I agree! I'd rather see Leopard released this winter than see Apple strip great features as MS did with Vista. Cuz if they stip them out for a release now it'll be 2+ years before we see Mac OS X 10.6.
Comments
Leopard out in the next few weeks? Wow. Where is 10.4.9 then? Due out in a few hours?
So, does .9 come out with Leopard?
The unprecedented 6 month time frame currently between 10.4.8 and 10.4.9 screams to me that Apple has no plans to release Leopard anytime soon. I expect Leopard to be release no sooner than 5 to 8 weeks after the 10.4.9 update in released.
so surly they get a little insider knowledge .
whan ever it comes i think it will be amazing.
Let me retort with this then... What could be holding back development for so long? OS X is robust and mature and has been for years. What could they be doing to the OS that would cause it to be so unstable? Are the time machine plus the graphic engine changes so complex that they have destabilzed the OS for much longer than expected? Did Apple change course midway through development like MS did? Something fishy is going on here
Core Animation and resolution independence seem like pretty big steps to take.
Out of curiosity, why would this not be possible? Apple seems overly paranoid about this release and its features.
Do you know how many people here have already suggested this? Do you know how many times it's been refuted?
Apple has to work with its developers. Apple depends on them to get working versions of their software out as quickly, and as cleanly, as they can.
While a developer can't finish their package, if it's a complex piece of software, until the OS is released, because of the possibility of last minute changes, it takes them months to work out their new releases.
If Apple hides major features, and gives them packages with now non-extent bugs, just how do you expect them to work on their software, and to give Apple the proper feedback?
They can't.
You have obviously never beta tested a product.
These "secret sauce" comments are from those who want to see this software out *right now*, and are trying to find excuses as to how it can happen, in the face of evidence that it isn't nearly ready.
As I already said, if major features can be, and are dropped, it might happen?it happened with 10.4.
But, you don't want to see that again, do you?
I'm still sticking to my guns that Apple is going fake everyone out and release Leopard in the next few weeks.
Guns are forbidden where I live, but I also expect a release before may
Let me retort with this then... What could be holding back development for so long? OS X is robust and mature and has been for years. What could they be doing to the OS that would cause it to be so unstable? Are the time machine plus the graphic engine changes so complex that they have destabilzed the OS for much longer than expected? Did Apple change course midway through development like MS did? Something fishy is going on here
The only thing fishy here is this idea you, and some others, have.
Apple promised that we would have the new version of Quartz for 10.4. We didn't.
Then we speculated that as Apple promised it for the release, it would come in a later update. Unless it comes at the last minute, in 10.4.9, Apple will have missed it by two years.
Why is it so hard to believe that major changes, and additions, to an OS are difficult to massage?
Often adding, or changing one area, will result in bugs, or unexpected results in other, seemingly unrelated, areas.
I had that same problem in electronics I designed. Change one component, and something else would have to be changed. Sometimes the changes would cascade throughout the entire design. When you got to the end, you would then find that your original change had to be changed again, and so on, until you had reworked the entire project.
Software can exhibit the same behavior.
I don't buy the 'external', 'internal' builds arguement either. Vista is out and isn't going to change for some time if ever. Why would Apple need to have two builds?
It's not about keeping it a secret from Microsoft.
It's about keeping it a secret from you and me.
Steve Jobs is a master showman and marketer.
He knows that secrecy creates buzz, speculation, rumors and interest.
Some here have "suggested" that Apple has external and internal tracks for the OS, with the internal one having all of the features working, and most of the bugs quashed, but that's hardly credible.
Well I could see having a separate internal build with "secret features" and an external with them stripped out. That is feasible to a degree and also the "slight" possibility with the removal adding to bugs. Releasing a stripped version to developers that has bugs not in an internal version doesn't make sense at all. Why have developers report on bugs that are already fixed/not present in internal builds? So in the end, I see 2 builds, one internal with Steve's super secrets, one external with those stripped out, and at the same point in the build both have the same bugs as reported by developers.
It's not about keeping it a secret from Microsoft.
It's about keeping it a secret from you and me.
Steve Jobs is a master showman and marketer.
He knows that secrecy creates buzz, speculation, rumors and interest.
There is no purpose served by Apple keeping it secret it this time. If the NDA doesn't work, well, it's almost showtime anyway.
After all, rez independence got out, and the world didn't end. Do you think the general public even knows about it?
Well I could see having a separate internal build with "secret features" and an external with them stripped out. That is feasible to a degree and also the "slight" possibility with the removal adding to bugs. Releasing a stripped version to developers that has bugs not in an internal version doesn't make sense at all. Why have developers report on bugs that are already fixed/not present in internal builds? So in the end, I see 2 builds, one internal with Steve's super secrets, one external with those stripped out, and at the same point in the build both have the same bugs as reported by developers.
What purpose would be served by Apple having two teams working on the release? One with the *secret features*, and one for developers without it? Do you think Apple needs the expense, and inevitable confusion within their own organization from that?
And what purpose would be served by keeping developers in the dark so that they can't take advantage of these new features that Apple thinks are so important that they are willing to hide them?
So, now developers will have to wait until the OS is released to even see these features? What about new programs that are coming out in time for the release? What about major developers such as MS and Adobe who have major programs scheduled for release about the same time as the OS?
They can't take advantage of these new features that Apple will be saying they have to modify their programs to use.
What is the point of that? So, we will have to wait 6 months to a year to see these new "killer" features working in major programs? We will have rez independence with no programs able to take advantage of it?
Other features as well?
How embarrassing! And how angry these developers will be. And rightly so!
OS X Leopard will have the features you see in the builds. Exactly that and not much more other than some Finder updates.
THE BIG NEWS will be that iLife will have several new apps which 'overlay' Leopard and require Leopard to run. This is where the 'cool' new functionality will exist.
Chew on that turd for awhile and get back to me.
I'm not looking forward to an early release.
This release is too important to Apple. With the lack of progress so far that we are seeing, an early release will have to be buggy.
If this release is buggy, a lot of negative publicity will follow, because of its juxtaposition to Vista, that it hasn't gotten before.
Apple must attempt to release 10.5 in as pristine a fashion as possible. I would much rather wait until the Dev Conf.
I don't understand the eagerness. What's a couple of months going to do to someone's life? Whoever buys this will have it for two more years.
Hear Hear,
Apple can not afford it to be too buggy, it needs to rub Vista's nose in the mud, the OS is more likely to be avialable around June than earlier.
My own feelings about Apple's 2007's sales is that they will be higher than that. I can't see less than $26 billion. If Apple comes out with new machines in the not too distant future, with iPods selling at almost 50% higher levels than last year, with the ATv about to appear, decent sales of the iPhone, and good sales of hopefully upgraded software, we might see sales at even higher levels.
I've seen estimates of up to, and even exceeding, $30 billion, though that would be extreme.
That would be HUGE on the stock's upside, if that happens. Did a quick check of some recently released FY2007 forecasts by a few analysts:
Pacific Crest (3/1/07): $24 billion
Bear Stearns (3/5/07): $24 billion
Prudential (3/5/07): $24.6 billion
Piper Jaffray (3/5/07): $25.4 bilion
Average = $24.5 billion. (Looks like the ThinkEquity guy is right at the average).
If the data come in as hoped for, they'll all be in a drip-drip-drip mode of upward revisions, and that makes for a potentially nice year for the stock!
Ok, enough of all this speculation, let me drop my turd into the pile:
OS X Leopard will have the features you see in the builds. Exactly that and not much more other than some Finder updates.
THE BIG NEWS will be that iLife will have several new apps which 'overlay' Leopard and require Leopard to run. This is where the 'cool' new functionality will exist.
Chew on that turd for awhile and get back to me.
Dude, I really hope you are wrong about that. That's one hell of a turd. How do you "know" this turd to be fact? iLife should NOT be considered "features" of an OS. iLife is a group of applications. Great apps, but not something that should be called "Top Secret" features of Leopard. Top Secret features would be more along the lines of ZFS/bootcamp/virtualization/new UI/multitouch/etc.
That would be HUGE on the stock's upside, if that happens. Did a quick check of some recently released FY2007 forecasts by a few analysts:
Pacific Crest (3/1/07): $24 billion
Bear Stearns (3/5/07): $24 billion
Prudential (3/5/07): $24.6 billion
Piper Jaffray (3/5/07): $25.4 bilion
Average = $24.5 billion. (Looks like the ThinkEquity guy is right at the average).
If the data come in as hoped for, they'll all be in a drip-drip-drip mode of upward revisions, and that makes for a potentially nice year for the stock!
These guys forcast from what they know now. That's what they have to do. If things change, so do their forcasts.
They are responsable to their clients, and to the SEC as well.
I am not. I can speculate from what I THINK will happen, based on somewhat more tenuous information going forward. They have to wait until it gets here.
It's not about keeping it a secret from Microsoft.
It's about keeping it a secret from you and me.
Steve Jobs is a master showman and marketer.
He knows that secrecy creates buzz, speculation, rumors and interest.
Apple's strongest play right now would be to reveal Leopard's secrets and splash them all over the place. Why? To interrupt the PC churn cycle to Vista.
Apple should be running an ad campaign that says: That would be the strongest marketing position for creating switchers.
The only plausible for reason for not having revealed more of Leopard's spots is that they are not ready.
There is no purpose served by Apple keeping it secret it this time. If the NDA doesn't work, well, it's almost showtime anyway.
Yes.
What is the point of that? So, we will have to wait 6 months to a year to see these new "killer" features working in major programs? We will have rez independence with no programs able to take advantage of it?
Other features as well?
How embarrassing! And how angry these developers will be. And rightly so!
Again, yes.
Keep it simple. No grand conspiracies. No double blind builds that screw software developers.
It's just not ready yet.
No matter how much we want it.
i don't know much about shaires and the like but if these guys are saying sooner rather than later then wouln't they look really silly if they were wrong and stock buyers lose all faith in them ?????
so surly they get a little insider knowledge .
whan ever it comes i think it will be amazing.
LOL, well I hope they don't have "insider trading info".
I just hope that Apple does not do like M$ and remove important features to make a date. I rather wait and get the full effect.
YES - I agree! I'd rather see Leopard released this winter than see Apple strip great features as MS did with Vista. Cuz if they stip them out for a release now it'll be 2+ years before we see Mac OS X 10.6.