Apple estimates raised at ThinkEquity ahead of Leopard launch

1235

Comments

  • Reply 81 of 109
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Democaster


    ...Apple aren't necessarily "faking out" the devs - all the stuff you'll need as a developer in Leopard is there. I think the bugs are a red herring, and the stuff that's of interest to end users is not only being omitted from devprevs, but it's good to go...



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Quite a leap...



    1. Well we know the *real* UI for Leopard is not in the developer builds.

    2. Some real juicy stuff not yet announced is not in the developer builds.



    No. 1 and 2 above is clearly stuff that if in the developer builds, some developers would clearly be putting up a huge sign, saying "Will Violate NDA for Fame and Fortune".



    Heh. Like recently in Family Guy... A guy is driving on the highway, sees a Moose, holding a sign, "Will do Moose Stuff for Food". Guy speaks to the Moose, says, "What the hell is Moose stuff?". The Moose says, "Well, anything from say, drinking some water by the lake, or... having sex with you, or, anything inbetween, you know...". Driver says, "Get In...".



    Given No. 1 and 2 above



    3. Giving "forked" buggy builds/ prior builds with bugs not worked out becomes less of a jump.



    With 10.4.9 out, it's hard to say really. Apple and Adobe are ready to go in full flight with CS3 AND Leopard. I'd prefer Leopard be pushed back to WWDC, but Apple may want to ride high in the April-May-June-2007 quarter [clearly, clearly there would be hardware bumps here alongside IF Leopard is full shipping by end of April...].



    There's definitely a lot of forked builds going on for (A) separate non-new UI Leopard for developers, (B) security reasons - maybe different Apple departments are getting different builds, then (C) somewhere there's the "Leopard: Steve Jobs' Premium Reserve Build" - it's a gold-plated DVD-ROM that if removed from Steve Jobs' office, will transform automatically into Vista HomeUpgrade within 10 seconds.
  • Reply 82 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Really? I remember a 15 year number in a speech in late 1999.



    Someone else remembered it being 20 years and mentioned that here. I had just seen the keynote again that morning, so I corrected him.



    I wish some ultra Apple zealot had transcribed all of the keynotes so I could point it out to you, but I'm not about to spend an hour watching it for that



    Either way, it's not so relevant: 10 and 15 years are both a long time, plans change. And even if they wanted it out in 2010, I bet it'd be late, anyway
  • Reply 83 of 109
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gregmightdothat View Post


    Someone else remembered it being 20 years and mentioned that here. I had just seen the keynote again that morning, so I corrected him.



    I wish some ultra Apple zealot had transcribed all of the keynotes so I could point it out to you, but I'm not about to spend an hour watching it for that



    Either way, it's not so relevant: 10 and 15 years are both a long time, plans change. And even if they wanted it out in 2010, I bet it'd be late, anyway



    Awww, now... come on, with all those posts, surely it means you've got a lot of time...

    Full transcripts of all the keynotes would actually be really cool.

    Maybe we should start with MacworldSF2007Jan.
  • Reply 84 of 109
    donebyleedonebylee Posts: 521member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Lion...Lynx...Cougar...Sabretooth...Also Tasmanian Tiger...



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    BigFoot...



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Moose...



    Am I detecting a theme here? Just how far out there do you live???



  • Reply 85 of 109
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,598member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    1. Well we know the *real* UI for Leopard is not in the developer builds.

    2. Some real juicy stuff not yet announced is not in the developer builds.



    No. 1 and 2 above is clearly stuff that if in the developer builds, some developers would clearly be putting up a huge sign, saying "Will Violate NDA for Fame and Fortune".



    Heh. Like recently in Family Guy... A guy is driving on the highway, sees a Moose, holding a sign, "Will do Moose Stuff for Food". Guy speaks to the Moose, says, "What the hell is Moose stuff?". The Moose says, "Well, anything from say, drinking some water by the lake, or... having sex with you, or, anything inbetween, you know...". Driver says, "Get In...".



    Given No. 1 and 2 above



    3. Giving "forked" buggy builds/ prior builds with bugs not worked out becomes less of a jump.



    With 10.4.9 out, it's hard to say really. Apple and Adobe are ready to go in full flight with CS3 AND Leopard. I'd prefer Leopard be pushed back to WWDC, but Apple may want to ride high in the April-May-June-2007 quarter [clearly, clearly there would be hardware bumps here alongside IF Leopard is full shipping by end of April...].



    There's definitely a lot of forked builds going on for (A) separate non-new UI Leopard for developers, (B) security reasons - maybe different Apple departments are getting different builds, then (C) somewhere there's the "Leopard: Steve Jobs' Premium Reserve Build" - it's a gold-plated DVD-ROM that if removed from Steve Jobs' office, will transform automatically into Vista HomeUpgrade within 10 seconds.



    Actually, we don't know if 1 and 2 is true. That's just rumors.



    One reason some features may not yet be available is because they aren't finished enough to present in beta's.



    When I beta PS for Adobe, I find features being added until the very last moment. Not because they don't want to show them to us, but because we are BETA testing the software, not ALPHA testing it.



    Only when features are reliable enough to be allowed into the builds are they placed there.



    Apple might not even be sure that some of these features will be in the final builds.



    And, you are likely right that SOME features are on a different track, but not for security reasons, but because they are modular, and are being developed seperately. Areas such as Quicktime, for example can be developed that way, and added when ready.



    Does that mean that Apple might be changing minor desktop design without placing it into developers hands? Sure. If it's only the "look" with minor changes that won't have an effect on the programs, or API's, they might want to hide that.



    But, anything major would be released as soon as possible. NDA's are a powerful thing. Some info, such as rez independence will leak out, as have some other features, but overall, much of the changes are under the hood, where developers will be affected. If a change will negatively affect a developer, Apple is obligated to let them know.



    So, will we see features that have so far escaped our notice? Possibly. But, it won't be because Apple is hiding them. It will be because they are not yet ready for inclusion.
  • Reply 86 of 109
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,605member
    When Steve said "top secret," I took it as stuff for developers and not consumer direct stuff in the OS.



    I think you are right on.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Actually, we don't know if 1 and 2 is true. That's just rumors.



    One reason some features may not yet be available is because they aren't finished enough to present in beta's.



    When I beta PS for Adobe, I find features being added until the very last moment. Not because they don't want to show them to us, but because we are BETA testing the software, not ALPHA testing it.



    Only when features are reliable enough to be allowed into the builds are they placed there.



    Apple might not even be sure that some of these features will be in the final builds.



    And, you are likely right that SOME features are on a different track, but not for security reasons, but because they are modular, and are being developed seperately. Areas such as Quicktime, for example can be developed that way, and added when ready.



    Does that mean that Apple might be changing minor desktop design without placing it into developers hands? Sure. If it's only the "look" with minor changes that won't have an effect on the programs, or API's, they might want to hide that.



    But, anything major would be released as soon as possible. NDA's are a powerful thing. Some info, such as rez independence will leak out, as have some other features, but overall, much of the changes are under the hood, where developers will be affected. If a change will negatively affect a developer, Apple is obligated to let them know.



    So, will we see features that have so far escaped our notice? Possibly. But, it won't be because Apple is hiding them. It will be because they are not yet ready for inclusion.



  • Reply 87 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aplnub View Post


    When Steve said "top secret," I took it as stuff for developers and not consumer direct stuff in the OS.



    I think you are right on.



    It's all about marketing and no one, NO ONE knows better than Steve how to get the rumor mills cranked up.



    If it was stuff for developers, then developers will need time to learn how to incorporate it into their applications. Thats why most of the stuff that was announced were developer oriented.



    1. 64-bit application support - purely a developer thang

    2. Time Machine - applications need to be tuned to work with it

    3. Boot Camp, Photo Booth, and Front Row - some opportunities for developer

    4. Spaces - nothing for developers

    5. Spotlight - nothing much here

    6. Core Animation - lots of stuff for developers, developers, developers!

    7. Accessibility improvements - developers can take advantage of new accessibility features

    8. Mail - other apps can tap into Mail's central DB for notes and to-do items

    9. Dashcode and Dashboard improvements - developers can build widgets with it

    10. iChat -can do screencasts with other apps



    The 5 secret features will probably be less oriented to developers and more geared toward consumers. Think stand alone apps, superficial GUI stuff, bells, whistles, dogs, ponies, etc.

    Steve is saving the magic for the final announcement to WOW the crowds and stoke the sales.
  • Reply 88 of 109
    dacloodacloo Posts: 890member
    *cough* new Finder *cough*
  • Reply 89 of 109
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post


    It's all about marketing and no one, NO ONE knows better than Steve how to get the rumor mills cranked up.



    If it was stuff for developers, then developers will need time to learn how to incorporate it into their applications. Thats why most of the stuff that was announced were developer oriented.

    ............



    The 5 secret features will probably be less oriented to developers and more geared toward consumers. Think stand alone apps, superficial GUI stuff, bells, whistles, dogs, ponies, etc.

    Steve is saving the magic for the final announcement to WOW the crowds and stoke the sales.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dacloo View Post


    *cough* new Finder *cough*



    Agreed. Melgross, you have a point, but "hiding" is one thing Apple does very very well.

    I'm not trying to paint a huge conspiracy theory, but clearly there are "modules" such as new UI, and

    WOW stuff like JohnnyMoz mentions above, that are not "included".



    I feel both sides of the story, it's what fuels the basis of either an April announcement

    [Apple has clearly intentionally not "included" "significant modules"]



    or June announcement

    [Apple has clearly not completed significant coding/ bug fixing/ new features]



    My gut feeling is Apple is generally ahead of the game, far more than one would suspect.

    Without being overtly paranoid, I'd prefer June to give Apple more headroom,

    but I'm 65% April announcement, 35% June announcement.
  • Reply 90 of 109
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by donebylee View Post


    Am I detecting a theme here? Just how far out there do you live???





    I've always watched a lot of American TV and I (used to) read a lot.

    My parents always taught me "General Knowledge" was important.

    They spent a sh1tload of money on a full set of Encyclopaedia Britannica.

    [You know, that paper-book stuff 5-25 years ago before Wikis]
  • Reply 91 of 109
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by donebylee View Post


    Am I detecting a theme here? Just how far out there do you live???





    Actually I'm just a pop culture vulture whore. Which explains stuff... Oh, besides always being a tree-hugger at heart, until 2004 where I believe I actually talked to the soul of the planet and it explained "stuff" to me...



    Lion...

    -Lion King, Akuna Matata, 'nuff Said.



    Lynx...

    -Name of a popular global anti-perspirant/deodorant.



    Cougar...

    -Name of a Car? also Cougar Bourbon.



    Sabretooth...

    -From Ice Age 1 and 2. He was BADASS.



    Tasmanian Tiger...

    -An unavoidable legend if you visit Tasmania, Australia.

    -Also made famous with confusion with Tasmanian Devil (cartoons).



    BigFoot...

    -I used to be a fan of X-Files (say up to season 06).

    Got deep into conspiracy theories, Discovery channel, etc.

    Though I don't think X-Files had significant, if any BigFoot-

    related episodes, it was kinda a running joke with "Spooky Mulder".

    Also Simpsons parodies on both BigFoot sightings and the

    awesome X-Files parody episode.



    Moose...

    -Unavoidable in many American movies and TV. And cartoons.



  • Reply 92 of 109
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    I blame the USA for taking at least 50 points off what my IQ should be.
  • Reply 93 of 109
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    <snip>

    Lion...

    -Lion King, Akuna Matata, 'nuff Said.



    Lynx...

    -Name of a popular global anti-perspirant/deodorant.



    Cougar...

    -Name of a Car? also Cougar Bourbon.



    Sabretooth...

    -From Ice Age 1 and 2. He was BADASS.



    Tasmanian Tiger...

    -An unavoidable legend if you visit Tasmania, Australia.

    -Also made famous with confusion with Tasmanian Devil (cartoons).



    BigFoot...

    -I used to be a fan of X-Files (say up to season 06).

    Got deep into conspiracy theories, Discovery channel, etc.

    Though I don't think X-Files had significant, if any BigFoot-

    related episodes, it was kinda a running joke with "Spooky Mulder".

    Also Simpsons parodies on both BigFoot sightings and the

    awesome X-Files parody episode.



    <snip>



    I'm surprised that there has been no mention of the Liger and Tigon. At least those actually exist.
  • Reply 94 of 109
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,605member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dacloo View Post


    *cough* new Finder *cough*



    In my mind, what bigger and better top secret thing could Apple give us besides what Steve has said and excluding Resolution Independence? Maybe some type of Windows integration but I think we all have come to grips that BootCamp will be as far as Apple takes that.



    Nothing really. Just more refinements and better tools for developers to give us better and faster programs with less programming crap to go through. Really, that is enough for me. If it means the Omni guys can do bigger and better things easier, I will get faster and better software from them.



    Minus a new finder, I don't think we will be wow'd. Just like when Steve gave the big iPhone speech and not a single Mac update. People were bent. I think they will not be overly excited but not bent come the big "Top Secret" features announcements we were promised from Steve.
  • Reply 95 of 109
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aplnub View Post


    In my mind, what bigger and better top secret thing could Apple give us besides what Steve has said and excluding Resolution Independence? Maybe some type of Windows integration but I think we all have come to grips that BootCamp will be as far as Apple takes that.



    With Apple's marketshare skyrocketing and Apple finally has a chance to make some headway in the workplace, I'd really like to see some fast and seamless integration with Windows internetworking.



    1) Accessing offline network shares that don't lockup the computer for several minutes (that certainly goes into the FTFF file).

    2) The ability for OS X to know which file systems to leave its hidden files (e.g.: ._Trash).



    PS: I've had so much trouble trying to get Vista to see and access shares and for it's sahres to be ssen and accessed. Really, it's been a nightmare and I wish there was one solution that worked for all of my installs.
  • Reply 96 of 109
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aplnub View Post


    Just like when Steve gave the big iPhone speech and not a single Mac update. People were bent.



    People always expect too much from the 2 hour keynote. Some people are never satisfied. Me, I satisfy myself several times a a day.







    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aplnub View Post


    In my mind, what bigger and better top secret thing could Apple give us besides what Steve has said and excluding Resolution Independence? Maybe some type of Windows integration but I think we all have come to grips that BootCamp will be as far as Apple takes that.



    With Apple's marketshare skyrocketing and Apple finally has a chance to make some headway in the workplace, I'd really like to see some fast and seamless integration with Windows internetworking.



    1) Accessing offline network shares that don't lockup the computer for several minutes (that certainly goes into the FTFF file).

    2) The ability for OS X to know which file systems to leave its hidden files (e.g.: ._Trash).



    PS: I've had so much trouble trying to get Vista to see and access shares and for it's sahres to be ssen and accessed. Really, it's been a nightmare and I wish there was one solution that worked for all of my installs.
  • Reply 97 of 109
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,605member
    I agree on all points you make. Even those are not the end-all be-all jaw dropping features the people on this board are looking for. We are going to be a little dissapointed. I will guarantee you that.



    I also hope for a massive Automator update. That is a program that is underrated, under supported, and could be a shining star if Apple wanted it too.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    People always expect too much from the 2 hour keynote. Some people are never satisfied. Me, I satisfy myself several times a a day.



    With Apple's marketshare skyrocketing and Apple finally has a chance to make some headway in the workplace, I'd really like to see some fast and seamless integration with Windows internetworking.



    1) Accessing offline network shares that don't lockup the computer for several minutes (that certainly goes into the FTFF file).

    2) The ability for OS X to know which file systems to leave its hidden files (e.g.: ._Trash).



    PS: I've had so much trouble trying to get Vista to see and access shares and for it's sahres to be ssen and accessed. Really, it's been a nightmare and I wish there was one solution that worked for all of my installs.



  • Reply 98 of 109
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,598member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    I blame the USA for taking at least 50 points off what my IQ should be.



    What do you have left?
  • Reply 99 of 109
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Actually I'm just a pop culture vulture whore. Which explains stuff... Oh, besides always being a tree-hugger at heart, until 2004 where I believe I actually talked to the soul of the planet and it explained "stuff" to me...



    Lion...

    -Lion King, Akuna Matata, 'nuff Said.



    Lynx...

    -Name of a popular global anti-perspirant/deodorant.



    Cougar...

    -Name of a Car? also Cougar Bourbon.



    Sabretooth...

    -From Ice Age 1 and 2. He was BADASS.



    Tasmanian Tiger...

    -An unavoidable legend if you visit Tasmania, Australia.

    -Also made famous with confusion with Tasmanian Devil (cartoons).



    BigFoot...

    -I used to be a fan of X-Files (say up to season 06).

    Got deep into conspiracy theories, Discovery channel, etc.

    Though I don't think X-Files had significant, if any BigFoot-

    related episodes, it was kinda a running joke with "Spooky Mulder".

    Also Simpsons parodies on both BigFoot sightings and the

    awesome X-Files parody episode.



    Moose...

    -Unavoidable in many American movies and TV. And cartoons.











    The Tasmanian Devil IS a real animal, although suffering teribly at the moment from an undiagnosed, untreatable form of mouth ulcer/cancer, the devils are being wiped out rapidly, some say they will be extinct within a decade.



    Beautiful/nasty little marsupial they are.
  • Reply 100 of 109
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,598member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bikerdude View Post


    The Tasmanian Devil IS a real animal, although suffering teribly at the moment from an undiagnosed, untreatable form of mouth ulcer/cancer, the devils are being wiped out rapidly, some say they will be extinct within a decade.



    Beautiful/nasty little marsupial they are.



    Yes, that's sad. It's being spread by their unfortunate instinct of fighting, and biting each others faces .It seems to be a virus, and it's thought that a cure could be found, if there are some of the buggers left by then. The photo's are horrible.
Sign In or Register to comment.