iPhone in Europe; YouTube on iPhone; ZFS 'not happening'

Posted:
in iPod + iTunes + AppleTV edited January 2014
Speaking to the Italian press on Monday, Apple's Europe boss stated that iPhone will be available only alongside a cellular contract when it arrives overseas later this year. Meanwhile, it looks like there's sorry news on the 'Flash on iPhone' and 'ZFS on Mac OS X' fronts.



Apple Europe frontman Pascal Cagni won't say precisely when and with which provider Apple plans to launch its iPhone in Europe, but when it does arrive it won't be offered with pre-paid plans that are popular in parts of the region.



Cagni told the Italian-language seeteB.IT that the Apple handset is slated for availability "at the end" of 2007 and will only be sold with a service contract.



Translation of relevant parts (thanks, Chris):



Q1) could you be more specific about the previous announcement that

the iPhone will be available in Europe in the 'fourth quarter'?



A: "We still don't know, the [release] period will be toward the end

of the year"



Q2) Have you chosen a carrier for Europe?



A: About the carrier, we still don't have any news to provide you. I

can say that for Italy, those of you very accustomed to pre-paid,

there will be issues with the iPhone.



Q3) then a more pointed question is asked: "...does this mean Apple

will pursue the same subscription only strategy in Europe & Italy (as

it is doing the US)?"



A: Yes, I can confirm that it has been decided that it will only be

offered by subscription"



iPhone to support YouTube



Meanwhile, there's sure to be some dashed hopes if iPhone arrives later this month without support for Adobe's Flash media format. Right now, Flash is looking more like a "maybe" than a guarantee.



Apple chief executive Steve Jobs told the New York Times that "you might see" Flash support come to iPhone, but YouTube support would be present regardless.



"Yeah, YouTube -- of course," he said. "But you don’t need to have Flash to show YouTube. All you need to do is deal with YouTube. And plus, we could get ‘em to up their video resolution at the same time, by using h.264 instead of the old codec."



Jobs also confirmed that iPhone won't support Java. "[It's] not worth building in," he said. "Nobody uses Java anymore. It’s this big heavyweight ball and chain."



ZFS mystery



More certain appears to be the state of ZFS on Mac OS X, or lack thereof. Brian Croll, Apple's senior director of product marketing for the Mac OS X, told InformationWeek that "ZFS is not happening," when asked whether the Sun-developed Zettabyte File System would appear in Leopard.



Instead, Leopard will reportedly use Apple's current hierarchical file system, called HFS+.



Strangely, just five days prior Sun chief executive Jonathan Schwartz boasted during a company event that Apple would announce at its developers conference a plan to make ZFS the default file system for Leopard.



Update: An Apple spokesperson contacted InformationWeek on Tuesday seeking to clarify Croll's statement. "Croll was apparently supposed to indicate that ZFS would be available as a limited option, but not as the default file system."



The publication is reportedly drafting a separate story to note Apple's mis-statement and "hopefully to reveal more about how ZFS would work in Leopard."
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 76
    MF... Just.. MF.



    If ZFS got axed because of Sun's comments, well a pox on Sun. And Apple too, but mostly on Sun.
  • Reply 2 of 76
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ChevalierMalFet View Post


    MF... Just.. MF.



    If ZFS got axed because of Sun's comments, well a pox on Sun. And Apple too, but mostly on Sun.



    If ZFS was to be the primary filesystem, it's doubtful that ZFS would be pulled because of Sun's early statement. If, however, it was to be included as an optional extra, perhaps there is indeed a pissing match taking place. Note Job's disparagement of Java as well.
  • Reply 3 of 76
    aaarrrggghaaarrrgggh Posts: 1,566member
    Shame about ZFS, although I am sure it is because it isn't viable. From what I understand, HFS+ doesn't support copy on write, so taking a snapshot with time machine will be much more resource intensive.



    I really hope they can get it into Leopard Server, as that is where it really has the value.
  • Reply 4 of 76
    Good call re Java. As far as "primary" or "default" goes, I couldn't care less. I just want a bootable supported option. If that comes along as an unsung feature, I'll be happy, but if they just let it die, well, FnA.
  • Reply 5 of 76
    kim kap solkim kap sol Posts: 2,987member
    "[It's] not worth building in. Nobody uses Java anymore. It’s this big heavyweight ball and chain." + ZFS mysteriously not in the WWDC build = one pissed off Steve Jobs and one sad Sun



    It's clear now. I'll never understand Steve...considering this isn't a consumer feature per se. What does he care if Schmidt jumped the gun?



    Steve, you sack of shit, give us ZFS.



    Eric, why'd you have to open your big mouth?
  • Reply 6 of 76
    hattighattig Posts: 828member
    Java is the defacto mobile application environment for mobile phones, especially games, but also some real applications like MSN Messenger. Not having a J2ME environment on the phone is shortsighted ...



    ... apart from the support for web hosted AJAX applications that utilise iPhone GUI interface components via some XUL-like technology.



    I still think they're avoiding it because it's a Not In Here technology. The only real failure of Java has been as a web interface, i.e., applets, which died a deserved death due to limitations and start-up delays. It's still far more versatile than flash though, but the latter is simpler and quicker for most uses. Sadly most of these uses are advertising, hence I'm not too upset if the iPhone doesn't support it.



    As for ZFS, I think it is a shame in the long run if it is not supported, and I think it would prove very useful in Leopard Server as an option. Of course file systems need extensive testing, especially complex ones like ZFS, however Apple's implementation of some ZFS features in a layer above the filesystem also requires testing - but is simpler for people who update their OS rather than reinstall.
  • Reply 7 of 76
    So while there may not be ZFS in OS X Leopard for desktops and laptops, it's probably a good thing. Disk capacities just don't warrant it, IMHO. However, it would make sense for OS X Leopard for Servers.



    - Roland
  • Reply 8 of 76
    the cool gutthe cool gut Posts: 1,714member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post


    "[It's] not worth building in. Nobody uses Java anymore. It?s this big heavyweight ball and chain." + ZFS mysteriously not in the WWDC build = one pissed off Steve Jobs and one sad Sun



    Steve said that before Eric spilled the beans. I agree though, Java support on the iphone I don't think is necessary.



    Quote:

    Eric, why'd you have to open your big mouth?



    Apparantly, a letter went to Sun asking all employees to STFU regarding ZFS in leopard the EXACT day Eric said what he said. What a fucking idiot - we all know what happened to ATI. This is probably more to set an example for other companies that deal with Apple.



    But we don't know yet - there was lots not discussed - including independant resolution, so hopefully there will be more information coming out during the week.
  • Reply 9 of 76
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post


    It's clear now. I'll never understand Steve...considering this isn't a consumer feature per se. What does he care if Schmidt jumped the gun?



    Steve, you sack of shit, give us ZFS.



    Eric, why'd you have to open your big mouth?



    You probably already caught this after you sent it, but it was Jonathan Schwartz from Sun who spilled the beans, not Eric Schmidt from Google.
  • Reply 10 of 76
    mrjoec123mrjoec123 Posts: 223member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by subatomicsoul View Post


    You probably already caught this after you sent it, but it was Jonathan Schwartz from Sun who spilled the beans, not Eric Schmidt from Google.



    Regardless of who said it, there's no way ZFS got axed because of this statement. It probably just wasn't a good use of time for the Leopard developers, considering that boot was going to be a major undertaking. The last thing Apple needs is another Leopard delay.
  • Reply 11 of 76
    How can Safari on the iPhone be a full version if it has no support for Java or Flash. Java is great for games. I wouldn't expect it to be in the iPhone since it works like shit in OSX.
  • Reply 12 of 76
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hattig View Post


    Java is the defacto mobile application environment for mobile phones, especially games, but also some real applications like MSN Messenger. Not having a J2ME environment on the phone is shortsighted ...



    I agree although I think its also down to the control apple is under by cingular, they aren't allowing ANY type of 3rd part application that doesn't involve going online (which costs users money).

    Just a few applications come to mind that would affect revenues for cingular: VOIP (possibly using wifi hot spots), sms compression, multi-player gaming over blutooth or wi-fi and Im sure there are many more.



    They could at least give us some kind of sandbox variant of cocoa or something!
  • Reply 13 of 76
    frawgzfrawgz Posts: 547member
    Um, this iPhone news (i.e. Jobs interview) is six months old. Why are rumor sites reporting it like it's straight out of WWDC?



    That means the fate of Flash on the iPhone should very well be decided by now.
  • Reply 14 of 76
    I wonder if this is another one of those infamous Steve Jobs "I'll show you to spoil my keynote!" events? I remember Steve pulling ATI cards out of Macs last minute when ATI released a keynote spoiler years ago. ;-)

    -Jeff
  • Reply 15 of 76
    You can load Skype on WM5 and make VoIP calls over WiFi. Cingular has not blocked this. You still have to pay for your plan. It would only help those who usually go over their minutes a lot, and have constant access to WiFi.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digiology View Post


    I agree although I think its also down to the control apple is under by cingular, they aren't allowing ANY type of 3rd part application that doesn't involve going online (which costs users money).

    Just a few applications come to mind that would affect revenues for cingular: VOIP (possibly using wifi hot spots), sms compression, multi-player gaming over blutooth or wi-fi and Im sure there are many more.



    They could at least give us some kind of sandbox variant of cocoa or something!



  • Reply 16 of 76
    jasongjasong Posts: 31member
    It's a lot easier to swap one compatible video card for another at a moments notice, but if Apple was truly planning on using ZFS then that means they had not only put a ton of work into developing, testing, and supporting it, but they also were planning features based on it that will now not see the light of day for months, if not years. No way that scenario plays out.
  • Reply 17 of 76
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    f'ing stupid not to have ZFS. Even as a non-boot option having raidz is a extremely useful thing.



    Leopard...seriously losing interest.
  • Reply 18 of 76
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by the cool gut View Post


    Steve said that before Eric spilled the beans. I agree though, Java support on the iphone I don't think is necessary.



    Apparantly, a letter went to Sun asking all employees to STFU regarding ZFS in leopard the EXACT day Eric said what he said. What a fucking idiot - we all know what happened to ATI. This is probably more to set an example for other companies that deal with Apple.



    But we don't know yet - there was lots not discussed - including independant resolution, so hopefully there will be more information coming out during the week.



    I don't think it makes any sense for ZFS project to be blackballed for this. Does Sun get any money for ZFS? It's an open source licence and standard as far as I can tell, with no restrictions on integrating with commercial, closed source projects. If anything, I would speculate that there were some implementation issues that need to be handled first.
  • Reply 19 of 76
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    f'ing stupid not to have ZFS. Even as a non-boot option having zraid is a extremely useful thing.



    Leopard...seriously losing interest.



    And the alternative you have in mind is---?
  • Reply 20 of 76
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrjoec123 View Post


    Regardless of who said it, there's no way ZFS got axed because of this statement.



    exactly, i would think that file systems are not as trivial as, say ichat.
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