Apple's iPhone to wirelessly stream YouTube content

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  • Reply 81 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight


    3G coverage is a joke.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by badNameErr View Post


    Only in the US.





    Actually, more like "only in the US, and only under HSDPA/UMTS" (i.e. ATT's 3G).



    Sprint and Verizon's EVDO 3G networks have pretty good coverage now, and should be very good by the end of the year.



    Even so, Apple should've considered going HSDPA/EDGE with the iPhone, like Samsung did with the Blackjack. Battery life may have been a concern (3G uses a lot of power, and the iPhone has a huge, power-draining screen already), but even so, the ability to switch back and forth between 3G and EDGE would've been awesome. \



    It's not like ATT's 3G coverage is going to suck forever. Should be decent (or close) in a year. But I guess they wanted to insta-obsolete all the iPhone 1.0s, so iPhone 2.0 sales would be even higher?



    Brrr-rrr. I hope Apple really isn't that eval.





    .
  • Reply 82 of 141
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post


    ....It's not like ATT's 3G coverage is going to suck forever. Should be decent (or close) in a year. But I guess they wanted to insta-obsolete all the iPhone 1.0s, so iPhone 2.0 sales would be even higher?



    Brrr-rrr. I hope Apple really isn't that eval.



    I'm sure obsoleting the first gen iPhone is a good part of the plan. That is kinda evil. The thing is, the market is so craving something like this that Apple could be good in this sense, get something out there on 2G EDGE, and yes, in 2G not 3G mode my SonyEricsson V600i lasts a whole lot longer, and all I sacrifice is some choppy blocky video clips *and* unusable "video chat" *and* exorbitant data costs.



    We need to move past this rubbish small-screen 3G nonsense onto proper [3G unlimited data plans fast internet on your mobile device] stuff. This will leapfrog WiFi and WiMax in terms of convenience and coverage, if it doesn't already.



    Mobility is the new black going into 2008. Desktops will be more related to those that do regular office job hours and in any case these desktops at home, work, or in retail, will also act as internal servers (distributed file storage, for TimeMachine, web host testing devices, personal/family/corporate video/music/movies, etc. etc.) ... with the real hardcore "server in server room" stuff for production-level enterprise/internet-wide 24/7/365 stuff.



    OMG why do I sound like I'm writing a brochure....???
  • Reply 83 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    sry, double post.
  • Reply 84 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    I'm sure obsoleting the first gen iPhone is a good part of the plan. That is kinda evil. The thing is, the market is so craving something like this that Apple could be good in this sense, get something out there on 2G EDGE, and yes, in 2G not 3G mode my SonyEricsson V600i lasts a whole lot longer, and all I sacrifice is some choppy blocky video clips *and* unusable "video chat" *and* exorbitant data costs.



    Yup. So glad I'm not getting iPhone 1.0. The planned obsolescence angle may make Apple a lot of money, but it sure isn't playing nice with customers... and may hurt them in the end, if any credible competitors step forward faster than anticipated. \



    Quote:

    We need to move past this rubbish small-screen 3G nonsense onto proper [3G unlimited data plans fast internet on your mobile device] stuff. This will leapfrog WiFi and WiMax in terms of convenience and coverage, if it doesn't already.



    Mobility is the new black going into 2008. Desktops will be more related to those that do regular office job hours and in any case these desktops at home, work, or in retail, will also act as internal servers (distributed file storage, for TimeMachine, web host testing devices, personal/family/corporate video/music/movies, etc. etc.) ... with the real hardcore "server in server room" stuff for production-level enterprise/internet-wide 24/7/365 stuff.



    OMG why do I sound like I'm writing a brochure....???



    A brochure? LOL, maybe. But the point you make is a very good one. Apple should commit to mobility across its lineup. Even MacBooks should be able to take advantage of 3G cards (and rumor has it Apple will be doing this- kinda points out the silliness of arbitrary lack of upgradability, don't it though?), and of course it goes without saying that the next iPhone MUST be 3G. And if WiMax amounts to anything, Apple should support it also, and not be the last to do so.



    "Broadband anywhere" is going to be a fairly big deal. Apple should be in the front of the parade.



    .
  • Reply 85 of 141
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    Yup. So glad I'm not getting iPhone 1.0. The planned obsolescence angle may make Apple a lot of money, but it sure isn't playing nice with customers...



    Well every electronic product we buy has some type of planned obsolescence. What would be the point of Playstation 3 or XBox 360? None of us have any idea when Apple would introduce a new iPhone. The video iPod has not had a major update in nearly two years.



    Apple has said each iPhone will receive free software upgrades for two years. Which means Apple needs to put in hardware today that will handle new software two years from now. Apple may not make a radically new iPhone in that time.
  • Reply 86 of 141
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    Those that care about the iPhone user base. Those that don't, will be better to use since the Flash ads and banners (vertical or horizontal) won't load



    Right now with Safari 3.0 (it's actually quite stable) I can see the AppleInsider site well without any pop unders/ pop ups which used to plague me for a while when using Firefox.



    On an iPhone the AppleInsider site will look better because no Flash Ads...



    Not adding Flash is a strategic move for Apple. Personally, I'm glad as I find Flash much more of an annoyance than a welcome addition to a webpage.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post


    Even MacBooks should be able to take advantage of 3G cards (and rumor has it Apple will be doing this- kinda points out the silliness of arbitrary lack of upgradability, don't it though?), and of course it goes without saying that the next iPhone MUST be 3G. And if WiMax amounts to anything, Apple should support it also, and not be the last to do so.



    Intel is doing this. Remember Centrino and how Intel added 802.11 to their chips? Santa Rosa was originally going to have HSDPA and WiMax. Obviously, neither happened, but they are still working to get them ready for the next platform due out next year.
  • Reply 87 of 141
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Well every electronic product we buy has some type of planned obsolescence. What would be the point of Playstation 3 or XBox 360? None of us have any idea when Apple would introduce a new iPhone. The video iPod has not had a major update in nearly two years.



    Apple has said each iPhone will receive free software upgrades for two years. Which means Apple needs to put in hardware today that will handle new software two years from now. Apple may not make a radically new iPhone in that time.





    Don't cha love it? If Apple revamps a product quickly they are screwing the customer; if Apple doesn't revamp a product quickly they are screwing the customer.





    Did they say two years or is that speculation? They have moved to a new 24 month accounting system and have stated they will offer free upgrades, but I don't recall an appended timeframe.
  • Reply 88 of 141
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Don't cha love it? If Apple revamps a product quickly they are screwing the customer; if Apple doesn't revamp a product quickly they are screwing the customer...



    Heh. ...By the way YouTube showed up in AppleTV w00t.
  • Reply 89 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Well every electronic product we buy has some type of planned obsolescence. What would be the point of Playstation 3 or XBox 360? None of us have any idea when Apple would introduce a new iPhone. The video iPod has not had a major update in nearly two years.



    Well, obviously. But there's planned obsolesence, and then there's near-instant obsolescence. No 3G on the iPhone is an example of the latter, insofar as the 'Internet in your pocket' aspect of it goes.



    Take a look around... even midrange US phones far cheaper than the iPhone have had 3G on them for a year now, higher-end phones, two years. WiFi isn't really a good stop-gap... as Forbes says, its not as common as people think and is often not free.



    Given that, and the fact that not having 3G leaves the only real door open to a competitor (imagine a touch-screen 'iPhone wannabe', cheaper, and advertising that its '10x faster' than the iPhone, by virtue of having 3G), Apple will have to come out with a 3G iteration of the iPhone reasonably quickly, likely within a year.



    To use your own example, its not so much like releasing a PS3 or Xbox360, but releasing a PS3 or Xbox360 with dial-up only, and then next year, releasing one with broadband. Ugh.



    And somewhat unnecessary, considering that there are phones that do HSDPA(3G) and EDGE, and that the major drawback of going 3G (battery life) appears to be less of an issue than previously thought, considering that the iPhone is now posting batt life specs that are quite a lot better than its competition (8 hours talk time, etc.)





    Quote:

    Apple has said each iPhone will receive free software upgrades for two years. Which means Apple needs to put in hardware today that will handle new software two years from now. Apple may not make a radically new iPhone in that time.



    See above... they'll likely have to come out with iPhone 2.0 before then. And ATT's 3G coverage will be decent within a year, not two. I highly doubt ATT'll want said 3G network to go untapped by the iPhone for long, when an iPhone 2.0 could be helping them sell even more data plans.



    Finally, supporting a product with free software updates for two years doesn't mean that you you're not bringing out new models before then. If you bought a Mac when Tiger first came out, you've been receiving free sofware updates to Tiger for over two years now, with 10.4.10 being posted just a day or two ago.



    So, did Apple stop bringing out new Macs since early-2005? \



    .
  • Reply 90 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Don't cha love it? If Apple revamps a product quickly they are screwing the customer; if Apple doesn't revamp a product quickly they are screwing the customer.



    More like, if they release a product that they know will be insta-obsoleted, they are screwing the customer. \



    Don't get me wrong, as an iPod and as a phone, the iPhone will still be very good, of course. But not going HSDPA(3G)/EDGE on a $500-600 phone, when competing phones (such as the Blackjack) have been doing this for 6 months now, and with battery life on the iPhone turning out to be very good, i.e. apparently able to handle 3G's power drain?



    I dunno solip... I have to wonder what they were thinkin'.



    Perhaps they didn't get the power management thing well and truly down until recently, and originally thought that battery life might end up being far less, which would then rule out power-hungry 3G... and of course the iPhone does not have a removable battery, so the usual 'carry a spare batt to swap in and out' solution that works for other phones is a no-go here.



    Now it turns out that the power situation is probably fine... and just in time to release a 3G iPhone in Europe and Asia, which are more advanced markets than the US, and where a lack of 3G really would hurt the iPhone a very great deal.



    It all kind of comes together... 'cept that iPhone 1.0 users in the US are kinda screwed, as you say, if they're really interested in the Internet experience of the thing.



    .
  • Reply 91 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Not adding Flash is a strategic move for Apple. Personally, I'm glad as I find Flash much more of an annoyance than a welcome addition to a webpage.



    Flash is good to have, though. For example, a lot of CBT (computer-based training) relies on it, because nearly every web browser supports Flash, and the movie file sizes you get with it are nice n' small.



    Quote:

    Intel is doing this. Remember Centrino and how Intel added 802.11 to their chips? Santa Rosa was originally going to have HSDPA and WiMax. Obviously, neither happened, but they are still working to get them ready for the next platform due out next year.



    WiMax I knew about (Intel is heavily into pimping it), but HSDPA I did not. Good stuff. I'd hope they'd also have EVDO 3G support for the US, as here it is far more widely-deployed than HSDPA is.



    Rumor has it that Apple is going to be including a 3G card adapter for MacBooks in the coming months (perhaps next revision), so whichever way we get 3G, it should all be good. *crosses fingers*



    .
  • Reply 92 of 141
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post


    Flash is good to have, though. For example, a lot of CBT (computer-based training) relies on it, because nearly every web browser supports Flash, and the movie file sizes you get with it are nice n' small.



    Ditto that.



    I bet we will see Flash on iPhone pretty soon. I remember when the first Intel Macs shipped they had a beta Flash plugin. Adobe is a little slow sometimes.



    m
  • Reply 93 of 141
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,727member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by badNameErr View Post


    Only in the US.



    No. Only for ATT.
  • Reply 94 of 141
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,727member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacGregor View Post


    So the office would rather you use the office pc and phone to do personal business?!



    That's not what I said. I don't see how you could have gotten from what I did say, to that.



    Network is network. does it matter whether it's from the PC Ethernet network, the WiFi PC network, or any other network? No, of course not.



    I didn't mention the phone, because we weren't taking about the phone, but the same thing applies, obviously.
  • Reply 95 of 141
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,727member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    3G in Europe and Asia and Australia is far outstripping WiFi or WiMax in terms of reliable all-the-time coverage. Agreed. Asia will most definitely have a 3G iPhone in 2008. IMO.



    Yes, this will be nice. Not yet though, until 3G in the US is really developed well over the next few years.



    Some of you guys not in the US have a strange view of what is actually happening here. It seems as though a few who are here do as well. I suppose that's true because those here who have this odd view don't have a cell network that does have 3G over most of its range (ATT), or don't want to pay for it, so don't understand what's available.



    They all do. Let that be clear.



    ATT has the least developed 3G network, by far. Don't compare the US to anywhere else by what you've heard about ATT.
  • Reply 96 of 141
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,727member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post


    Yup. So glad I'm not getting iPhone 1.0. The planned obsolescence angle may make Apple a lot of money, but it sure isn't playing nice with customers... and may hurt them in the end, if any credible competitors step forward faster than anticipated. \



    I'm waiting too.





    Quote:

    A brochure? LOL, maybe. But the point you make is a very good one. Apple should commit to mobility across its lineup. Even MacBooks should be able to take advantage of 3G cards (and rumor has it Apple will be doing this- kinda points out the silliness of arbitrary lack of upgradability, don't it though?), and of course it goes without saying that the next iPhone MUST be 3G. And if WiMax amounts to anything, Apple should support it also, and not be the last to do so.



    "Broadband anywhere" is going to be a fairly big deal. Apple should be in the front of the parade.



    .



    Apple's machines can take advantage of any 3G cards that will fit in the slot, and have drivers.



    Sprint, for example, lets me use my Treo 700p as a Bluetooth modem for any Mac having Bluetooth. That way I can use Sprints EVDO network.



    So, it's not really up to Apple. That's what their WiFi, Bluetooth, and 34 pin slot are for.
  • Reply 97 of 141
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    Well, obviously. But there's planned obsolesence, and then there's near-instant obsolescence. No 3G on the iPhone is an example of the latter, insofar as the 'Internet in your pocket' aspect of it goes.



    That's only one scenario. There are a couple of ways it could go. Apple could release the iPhone on June 29th with 3G hardware. And use a firmware update later to activate it.



    Apple could release phones in Europe and Asia without 3G, and roll out 3G on future models of the phone. There is no way for us to know at this point exactly what will happen.



    Quote:

    Take a look around... even midrange US phones far cheaper than the iPhone have had 3G on them for a year now, higher-end phones, two years. WiFi isn't really a good stop-gap... as Forbes says, its not as common as people think and is often not free.







    Which phones support 3G? Which phones support EDGE? Which phones even support WiFi?



    Quote:

    Given that, and the fact that not having 3G leaves the only real door open to a competitor (imagine a touch-screen 'iPhone wannabe', cheaper, and advertising that its '10x faster' than the iPhone, by virtue of having 3G), Apple will have to come out with a 3G iteration of the iPhone reasonably quickly, likely within a year.



    I doubt simply a touchscreen 3G phone will out-compete the iPhone. Very very few people (in the US) actively search for phones that have 3G, or base their phone buying decisions on 3G.



    Quote:

    To use your own example, its not so much like releasing a PS3 or Xbox360, but releasing a PS3 or Xbox360 with dial-up only, and then next year, releasing one with broadband. Ugh



    they'll likely have to come out with iPhone 2.0 before then. And ATT's 3G coverage will be decent within a year, not two. I highly doubt ATT'll want said 3G network to go untapped by the iPhone for long, when an iPhone 2.0 could be helping them sell even more data plans.



    My point is that its pure speculation at this point. They may, they may not.



    Quote:

    So, did Apple stop bringing out new Macs since early-2005



    The computer market is entirely different from the handheld electronic market. The fact that the video iPod has not received a major upgrade in two years while facing new competition is more akin to how the iPhone will compete.
  • Reply 98 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I'm waiting too.



    Smart man. Though I may be grousing a bit overmuch... EDGE may not be all that bad. It just won't be anywhere near good, either.





    Quote:

    Apple's machines can take advantage of any 3G cards that will fit in the slot, and have drivers.



    Yep, but with MacBooks (not MB Pros), the only slot is already taken up by the Airport Extreme card. So you end up choosing between having WiFi and 3G. For a lot of people that sucks, because they have cable modems and wireless routers, like me.



    I get 6 Mbps at home via my wireless router. With current 3G, I'd be getting around one-tenth that. But of course I still want the 3G when I'm out and about. So I want both WiFi and 3G.



    Quote:

    Sprint, for example, lets me use my Treo 700p as a Bluetooth modem for any Mac having Bluetooth. That way I can use Sprints EVDO network.



    Yeah, that is a good solution... but of course, not everyone has a bluetooth 3G phone yet (though they should, dammit ).



    And bluetooth (the spec is evolving) seems like could lag behind 3G.... your Treo 700p's BT 1.2, for example, is fine for EVDO Rev A, but won't come close to taking full advantage of Rev B (9 Mbps!!), which should start rolling out late this year (I won't even get into Rev C/UMB, which is scary-fast). And its not like your phone is ancient by any means... came out only a year ago.



    Quote:

    So, it's not really up to Apple. That's what their WiFi, Bluetooth, and 34 pin slot are for.



    Well, in the case of MacBooks (not MB Pros, which have a slot other than the Airport card slot), I'm happy to hear that Intel plans to integrate 3G and WiMax into future chipsets, and that Apple is thinking of including a seperate 3G card adapter/slot.



    .
  • Reply 99 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    That's only one scenario. There are a couple of ways it could go. Apple could release the iPhone on June 29th with 3G hardware. And use a firmware update later to activate it.



    I don't think they can do that. 3G requires a separate and different radio from GSM/GPRS/EDGE. One that I don't think is in the iPhone.



    Quote:

    Apple could release phones in Europe and Asia without 3G, and roll out 3G on future models of the phone. There is no way for us to know at this point exactly what will happen.



    I highly doubt it. Europe and Asia are more advanced cellular markets than the US, where expectations (and competition) are higher for phones, and where 3G is well-established. Releasing the iPhone in those markets without 3G is suicidal, and Apple understands this.



    Quote:







    Which phones support 3G? Which phones support EDGE? Which phones even support WiFi?





    Not a great graphic, considering that it missed the fact that the Samsung Upstage is 3G. \

    It's also missing key competitors like the Samsung Blackjack, Motorola Q, Blackberry 8830 and Treo 700 series, all of which are 3G. In other words...



    Its just not a good or representative graphic. Most smartphones are 3G these days, and have been for awhile. Ditto even midrange flip phones. Feel free to look around and verify this.



    A somewhat better graphic (that could easily be larger than 20 phones, its just that's what searches on PhoneScoop are limited to):



    http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/fin...y&f6r=r&f46r=r





    ... As you can see, there's no shortage of high-end 3G phones these days.





    Quote:

    I doubt simply a touchscreen 3G phone will out-compete the iPhone. Very very few people (in the US) actively search for phones that have 3G, or base their phone buying decisions on 3G.



    Yes, and few people think $500-600 is a good price for a cell phone too.



    Point is, the iPhone's customer base are high-end customers, i.e. the kind who actually do care about things like 3G.



    Far as competitors go, an alternative doesn't have to be better than the iPhone, it merely has to be 'good enough' while being cheaper, touchscreen, and 3G. That is what all the major phone makers (Nokia, Motorola, LG, Samsung) are stampeding towards. They know they can't out iPhone the iPhone.





    Quote:

    My point is that its pure speculation [that Apple will make a US 3G iPhone next year] at this point. They may, they may not.



    They kind of have to. Lack of 3G hurts them some even in the US, due to the high-end nature of the market segment they're going after.



    I dunno Teno... late this year/next year, 3G is going to 9 Mbps, at least. What does Apple do, say that dial-up speed (EDGE) is just tres awesome? Hem and haw and say, "Well, there's a lot of them there coffee house hot spots, an' some of 'em are even free."?



    Quote:

    The computer market is entirely different from the handheld electronic market. The fact that the video iPod has not received a major upgrade in two years while facing new competition is more akin to how the iPhone will compete.



    You know as well as I that the current vid Pod upgrade cycle is



    1) far from ideal, and only acceptable due to its competition being weak (hi Zune)

    2) rather unique, in that the vid Pod is waiting on a touchscreen makeover, and can't debut earlier than late this year, for fear of upstaging/cannibalizing the iPhone



    And not the same thing as the computer market? I'm not sure anymore. Given the iPhone's price point and the fact that its more computer than cellphone (runs OS X and the 'real Internet'), I'd have to say the two markets are converging some, at least for the products Apple makes. In any case, free software updates for iPhone 1.0 for two years still in no way prevent Apple from coming out with an iPhone 2.0 whenever it feels it needs one... which will likely be sooner than later.



    .
  • Reply 100 of 141
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,727member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post


    Smart man. Though I may be grousing a bit overmuch... EDGE may not be all that bad. It just won't be anywhere near good, either.



    We'll see in a few days.



    Quote:

    Yep, but with MacBooks (not MB Pros), the only slot is already taken up by the Airport Extreme card. So you end up choosing between having WiFi and 3G. For a lot of people that sucks, because they have cable modems and wireless routers, like me.



    That's true. I don't like WiFi at home anyway. I wired my house for 1Gb Ethernet.



    Quote:

    I get 6 Mbps at home via my wireless router. With current 3G, I'd be getting around one-tenth that. But of course I still want the 3G when I'm out and about. So I want both WiFi and 3G.



    Outside, except in certain, limited areas, and circumstances, WiFi simply doesn't exist. 3G will be a far more USEFUL choice.



    Quote:

    Yeah, that is a good solution... but of course, not everyone has a bluetooth 3G phone yet (though they should, dammit ).



    And bluetooth (the spec is evolving) seems like could lag behind 3G.... your Treo 700p's BT 1.2, for example, is fine for EVDO Rev A, but won't come close to taking full advantage of Rev B (9 Mbps!!), which should start rolling out late this year (I won't even get into Rev C/UMB, which is scary-fast). And its not like your phone is ancient by any means... came out only a year ago.



    These things are coming. In a few, short, years, we will have what we want. These are all still relatively new technologies. It takes time until they're deployed, and even longer before most people understand, and want them.



    Quote:

    Well, in the case of MacBooks (not MB Pros, which have a slot other than the Airport card slot), I'm happy to hear that Intel plans to integrate 3G and WiMax into future chipsets, and that Apple is thinking of including a seperate 3G card adapter/slot.



    .



    I'm sure that we will see all of these technologies integrated.



    While that won't make people who want it NOW happy, that's the way it always is, isn't it?
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