Apple's iPhone to wirelessly stream YouTube content

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  • Reply 101 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Outside, except in certain, limited areas, and circumstances, WiFi simply doesn't exist. 3G will be a far more USEFUL choice.



    Well, it will be, once EVDO Rev B rolls out. Faster than my cable modem, and everywhere too? At that point, I'll be like "WTF do I still have a cable modem and wireless router for?".



    But right now, home wifi (cable modem plus wireless router plus airport) is good to have. I can dload an eppy of Battlestar Galactica or Weeds or Scrubs in just a few minutes. With EVDO Rev A, it'd take a couple of hours.



    The depressing thing is that 3G appears to be ramping up in speed far faster than home internet service. My home internet speeds, while fast, haven't budged much in the last year or two. But in a year, EVDO will be ten times faster.



    Frankly, the US sucks at home broadband. Japan already has 100 Mbps internet to many homes.





    Quote:

    I'm sure that we will see all of these technologies integrated.



    While that won't make people who want it NOW happy, that's the way it always is, isn't it?



    Yeah. Though its not like 3G hasn't been around for a couple of years already in the US, though.



    .
  • Reply 102 of 141
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    I don't think they can do that. 3G requires a separate and different radio from GSM/GPRS/EDGE. One that I don't think is in the iPhone.



    Well...they slipped 802.11n into the MacBook/MBPro. "n" requires a different radio and dual antenna than required for b/g.



    Quote:

    Releasing the iPhone in those markets without 3G is suicidal, and Apple understands this.



    I'm sure you are right but Apple does not always do what everyone thinks they should.



    Quote:

    As you can see, there's no shortage of high-end 3G phones these days



    You are right but.....



    Quote:

    Lack of 3G hurts them some even in the US, due to the high-end nature of the market segment they're going after.



    The only place I hear people so adamant about wireless data speeds is on the internet. I guarantee if I ask people I know with Blackberry's and Treo's what type of data network does their phone use or its speed, they will have no idea.



    At this point 3G is not really a big selling point in the US. Where I do agree with you. If people clearly see that the iPhone is noticeably slower and other phones are noticeably faster that could be a negative against it.
  • Reply 103 of 141
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post


    Well, it will be, once EVDO Rev B rolls out. Faster than my cable modem, and everywhere too? At that point, I'll be like "WTF do I still have a cable modem and wireless router for?".



    I question just what speeds we really do need for a phone.



    Considering its much lower resolution, even video's will be fairly small. But, everything gets faster, so it will happen. It could kill WiFi entirely.



    But it will never get as fast as a land line.



    Quote:

    But right now, home wifi (cable modem plus wireless router plus airport) is good to have. I can dload an eppy of Battlestar Galactica or Weeds or Scrubs in just a few minutes. With EVDO Rev A, it'd take a couple of hours.



    The depressing thing is that 3G appears to be ramping up in speed far faster than home internet service. My home internet speeds, while fast, haven't budged much in the last year or two. But in a year, EVDO will be ten times faster.



    Frankly, the US sucks at home broadband. Japan already has 100 Mbps internet to many homes.



    It's much cheaper to do wireless than it is to do wired. Putting towers up is expensive, but obtaining right of way, and then laying cables is far more expensive. Verison will have spent over $18 billion by 2010 just laying enough FIOS to reach 18 million homes.



    Sure, small countries with a few population centers, or very high tax rates will get the highest speeds first. The US is very spread out. What cost S Korea $100 billion to do, will cost at least a couple of trillion here. It will take longer.



    Verison has announced that their FIOS will be bring the max speeds from 50 Mbs to 100 Mbs shortly.







    Yeah. Though its not like 3G hasn't been around for a couple of years already in the US, though.



    .[/QUOTE]
  • Reply 104 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Well...they slipped 802.11n into the MacBook/MBPro. "n" requires a different radio and dual antenna than required for b/g.



    The 802.11n software update doesn't magically make new hardware appear. It only makes 802.11n possible for Macbooks and MBPs that already have the hardware built in. From apple.com:



    These Macs have the 802.11n hardware built-in:



    * MacBook Pro with Intel Core 2 Duo

    * MacBook with Intel Core 2 Duo

    * Mac Pro with AirPort Extreme option

    * iMac with Intel Core 2 Duo (except the 17-inch, 1.83GHz iMac)



    Please make sure you have one of these Mac computers before purchasing the 802.11n Enabler software. It is not compatible with other Mac models.




    Thus, a software or firmware update to the iPhone isn't going to magically make 3G radio hardware appear that isn't in there already.



    And it doesn't seem to be in there, since Jobs and ATT are talking about bringing out new models of iPhone that will have 3G:



    Jobs himself was already pointing towards future models in his keynote speech at Macworld San Francisco. He mentioned in passing that the company's choice of GSM network support via EDGE would allow it to produce a 3G wireless phone and "many other amazing things" in the near future.



    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._in_queue.html



    Also:



    3G iPhone could arrive overseas by early 2008



    Even though its vanguard cellphone isn't yet out the door, Apple is allegedly preparing a quick follow-up model with 3G wireless installed.




    ... a Swedish firm has received assurances from its liaison at the provider that the [iPhone] would arrive as soon as September -- and, startlingly, that a version of the handset with 3G (third-generation) wireless Internet access would be in the provider's hands as soon as January of 2008. The contact at the carrier was especially confident, sources said.



    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...arly_2008.html





    Quote:

    I'm sure you are right but Apple does not always do what everyone thinks they should [releasing a 3G phone for European and Asian markets]



    See link above. Apparently, even if the initial European release isn't 3G, a follow-up model will appear quickly that is 3G.



    .
  • Reply 105 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I question just what speeds we really do need for a phone.



    Considering its much lower resolution, even video's will be fairly small. But, everything gets faster, so it will happen. It could kill WiFi entirely.



    True. And I'd agree getting up into stupid-fast wireless speeds (EVDO Rev B and up) is more useful for laptops than iPhone-type devices... but who knows what uses they'll eventually find for it.



    Quote:

    It's much cheaper to do wireless than it is to do wired. Putting towers up is expensive, but obtaining right of way, and then laying cables is far more expensive. Verison will have spent over $18 billion by 2010 just laying enough FIOS to reach 18 million homes.



    Sure, small countries with a few population centers, or very high tax rates will get the highest speeds first. The US is very spread out. What cost S Korea $100 billion to do, will cost at least a couple of trillion here. It will take longer.



    Verizon has announced that their FIOS will be bring the max speeds from 50 Mbs to 100 Mbs shortly.



    Quote:

    But it [wireless] will never get as fast as a land line.



    All very excellent points.



    However, regarding speed, keep in mind that 3G (actually, 4G in this case) is slated to become scary-fast... EVDO RevC/UMB is allegedly capable of 280 Mbps!!!



    And its only a couple of years away from deployment. Will even fiber to the home be able to keep up? I dunno.



    .
  • Reply 106 of 141
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    Thus, a software or firmware update to the iPhone isn't going to magically make 3G radio hardware appear that isn't in there already.



    Here is what I originally said, "Apple could release the iPhone on June 29th with 3G hardware, and use a firmware update later to activate it."



    You said "I don't think they can do that. 3G requires a separate and different radio from GSM/GPRS/EDGE. One that I don't think is in the iPhone."



    Then I said "Well...they slipped 802.11n into the MacBook/MBPro. "n" requires a different radio and dual antenna than required for b/g." The point being the radio and antenna were in the laptops but a software update was required to make them useful.



    Somehow that bring us to you claiming that software will not magically make non-existent hardware appear.



    Quote:

    Jobs himself was already pointing towards future models in his keynote speech at Macworld San Francisco. He mentioned in passing that the company's choice of GSM network support via EDGE would allow it to produce a 3G wireless phone and "many other amazing things" in the near future.



    He said that but Jobs does not always mean what he says and does not always say what he means. Having inert 3G hardware in the phone to be activated later is one way to accomplish what he has said.



    Quote:

    3G iPhone could arrive overseas by early 2008



    So now we can count on some Swedish firm to have definitive info on Apple's future plans?
  • Reply 107 of 141
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post


    True. And I'd agree getting up into stupid-fast wireless speeds (EVDO Rev B and up) is more useful for laptops than iPhone-type devices... but who knows what uses they'll eventually find for it.











    All very excellent points.



    However, regarding speed, keep in mind that 3G (actually, 4G in this case) is slated to become scary-fast... EVDO RevC/UMB is allegedly capable of 280 Mbps!!!



    And its only a couple of years away from deployment. Will even fiber to the home be able to keep up? I dunno.



    .



    All wireless is theoretical. At best, it is actually half the speed, and more often, less than one third. When signal isn't great, it's often no better than a fifth.



    Land line speeds are close to what the companies state. My DSL is always within 20% of the delivered speed. My home 1 Gbs Ethernet network is within 10% of stated speed.



    As backbone speeds continue to rise, FIOS will go even higher. I've seen a couple of studies that show with that multiplexing, FIOS can hit 1 Gbs.
  • Reply 108 of 141
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    So now we can count on some Swedish firm to have definitive info on Apple's future plans?



    Emmm. It's those Swedish girls, you know. Even Jobs can't resist spilling the plans.
  • Reply 109 of 141
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    ^ Yeah, every man has his carnal weakness.
  • Reply 110 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Here is what I originally said, "Apple could release the iPhone on June 29th with 3G hardware, and use a firmware update later to activate it."



    You said "I don't think they can do that. 3G requires a separate and different radio from GSM/GPRS/EDGE. One that I don't think is in the iPhone."



    Then I said "Well...they slipped 802.11n into the MacBook/MBPro. "n" requires a different radio and dual antenna than required for b/g." The point being the radio and antenna were in the laptops but a software update was required to make them useful.



    Somehow that bring us to you claiming that software will not magically make non-existent hardware appear.



    I'm sorry Teno, but odds are, you're engaging in some wishful thinking here.



    If there was a 3G radio in the iPhone, just waiting to be activated by a software update, Apple would've said something by now. 3G helps them sell iPhones, and lack of 3G is one of the big slams against the iPhone, in article after article, editorial after editorial. Apple could take away one of the biggest (perhaps the biggest) reasons NOT to buy an iPhone simply by saying, "Oh yeah... and there's a 3G radio in there. Just give us time to do the software update."



    Also, if there's 3G hardware already in the iPhone, why is Jobs careful to point out that future iPhones will have 3G? \



    I wanna be with you on this one Teno, I really do, because it would be awesome if it were true, but I just think you're hoping overmuch.



    ...Oh, and I'm sorry if I lumped you in with the folks who think that the 802.11n software update was all that was required to make 802.11n happen on MacBooks and MBPs. I've heard that from other people, it's wrong, and I'm tired of telling them its wrong. I think my reflex is to 'shoot on sight' on that one right now... my bad.





    Quote:

    [Jobs] said that but Jobs does not always mean what he says and does not always say what he means. Having inert 3G hardware in the phone to be activated later is one way to accomplish what he has said.



    Again, I really admire your ability to hope.



    Quote:

    So now we can count on some Swedish firm to have definitive info on Apple's future plans?



    Sounds higher percentage than thinking the iPhone will be successful in Europe without 3G.



    But you're right... those damn, crafty, untrustworthy... Swedes.



    In any case, if the Euro iPhone doesn't have 3G at launch, you can bet that a 3G version will be following shortly thereafter. Because that's a market where consumers have had 3G for awhile, and expect it. If Apple drags ass over there on that, they can likely kiss that market good-bye.



    .
  • Reply 111 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    All wireless is theoretical. At best, it is actually half the speed, and more often, less than one third. When signal isn't great, it's often no better than a fifth.



    Even at half-speed, Rev C looks awesome. 140 Mbps would be incredible, you must agree. It's tough to complain about that.



    Quote:

    Land line speeds are close to what the companies state. My DSL is always within 20% of the delivered speed. My home 1 Gbs Ethernet network is within 10% of stated speed.



    As backbone speeds continue to rise, FIOS will go even higher. I've seen a couple of studies that show with that multiplexing, FIOS can hit 1 Gbs.



    If Verizon can start deploying 1 Gbps FIOS straight to the customer's home by 2009 (when EVDO Rev C/UMB is slated to start deployment), then they are my new and powerful gods.



    .
  • Reply 112 of 141
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    I'm sorry Teno, but odds are, you're engaging in some wishful thinking here.



    Its not necessarily my wish. My point is that no one knows what Apple is going to do. There are a couple of options Apple has with 3G and at this point its all speculation.



    It would be a mistake for people to get it into their heads that Apple will introduce a 3G iPhone at MW '08. When Apple has said no such thing. January '08 comes with no 3G iPhone and people are upset.



    Its just as likely what we get on June 29th is what we will have for awhile.



    Quote:

    If there was a 3G radio in the iPhone, just waiting to be activated by a software update, Apple would've said something by now.



    That's difficult to say. Over the past week Apple has steadily announced updated specs and new features for the iPhone. Today in the video they verified that the iPhone will open PDF, Word, and Excel documents. New information is likely to continue through the week. With bigger announcements before Friday.



    Quote:

    ...Oh, and I'm sorry if I lumped you in with the folks who think that the 802.11n software update was all that was required to make 802.11n happen on MacBooks and MBPs.



    Oh ok that did confuse me.



    Quote:

    3G helps them sell iPhones, and lack of 3G is one of the big slams against the iPhone



    I only hear this issue raised on the interweb. Out in real life the only complaint I hear about the iPhone is the price.



    Quote:

    In any case, if the Euro iPhone doesn't have 3G at launch, you can bet that a 3G version will be following shortly thereafter.



    Yes the logic of how Apple is doing this is confusing right now. It doesn't make any sense to introduce an iPhone right now without 3G then introduce one with 3G months later. You will piss off the people who bought an iPhone early and could impact scale of economy.



    Apple also has no recent precedent of releasing products around the world that have different specs. It wouldn't be smart because that also hurts the scale of economy. If they are using 3G at all they should have in all phones.
  • Reply 113 of 141
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    I guess where we differ. Is I don't believe the majority of people are going to look at the iPhone and care whether it uses EDGE, GSM, CDMA, EV-DO, WiMAX, or whatever.



    Where I can agree. If other phones are noticeably faster searching the internet than the iPhone. That could be a problem.
  • Reply 114 of 141
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post


    Even at half-speed, Rev C looks awesome. 140 Mbps would be incredible, you must agree. It's tough to complain about that.



    It sure would be incredible! I don't think we'll see it too soon. They still have problems with gen 1.



    Quote:

    If Verizon can start deploying 1 Gbps FIOS straight to the customer's home by 2009 (when EVDO Rev C/UMB is slated to start deployment), then they are my new and powerful gods.



    .



    I don't know if it will be done by 2009, but I'm willing to bet that it will be in place before 2012. The repeaters are now working. That was a big step. I'm pretty sure that the fiber that Verison is laying can do multifrequency light, and there are other methods of multiplexing without even using that.



    The great thing is that once the cable is laid, it costs much less (though it's still expensive) to upgrade the nodes and repeaters. The boxes in the house might have to be changed though, depending on how they handle that part of the drop.
  • Reply 115 of 141
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,743member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    I guess where we differ. Is I don't believe the majority of people are going to look at the iPhone and care whether it uses EDGE, GSM, CDMA, EV-DO, WiMAX, or whatever.



    Where I can agree. If other phones are noticeably faster searching the internet than the iPhone. That could be a problem.



    What I would like to know, and I'm sure the numbers are out there, is just what percentage of people both here, Europe, Japan, and the rest of the world, are using 3G in those areas where it is available.



    Of course, Apple, the cell manufacturers, and the cell network providers know this.



    If we had all of those numbers, if would help us to understand what the situation really is.
  • Reply 116 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    It would be a mistake for people to get it into their heads that Apple will introduce a 3G iPhone at MW '08. When Apple has said no such thing. January '08 comes with no 3G iPhone and people are upset.



    The problem is that Apple has already raised such expectations by releasing an iPhone 1.0 that lags behind even most common midrange phones these days in terms of data speeds. Its not unrealistic for consumers to expect the iPhone, which is cutting edge in so many ways, to go to 3G ASAP. Especially considering that the iPhone really encourages Internet usage in every possible way, except data speed. \



    Jobs saying that 3G iPhones were in the pipeline is just the icing on the expectations cake.



    Quote:

    Its just as likely what we get on June 29th is what we will have for awhile.



    Frankly, I would be shocked if we were here a year from now, and Apple still hadn't announced or released a 3G iPhone.



    Quote:

    That's difficult to say. Over the past week Apple has steadily announced updated specs and new features for the iPhone. Today in the video they verified that the iPhone will open PDF, Word, and Excel documents. New information is likely to continue through the week. With bigger announcements before Friday.



    Watch and learn Teno. No 'secret 3G' announced though launch week. Launch day getting closer, closer, hoping, hoping.... nah. Drat. Then someone will do an iPhone teardown a couple of weeks later, and there won't be any UMTS/HSDPA radio in there. Sad to say.



    Quote:

    Oh ok that did confuse me.



    Yeah, sorry about that.



    Quote:

    I only hear this issue raised on the interweb. Out in real life the only complaint I hear about the iPhone is the price.



    Yeah, there are some people out there who are going to buy the iPhone because its hot, or the latest trend, or whatever. Those people are not technically inclined, and don't even really know what 3G is. Put them in the same room as a halfway slick cellular salesman, and the iPhone could be based on 1980s analog technology and they'd still buy it.



    People like that guarantee that the iPhone is going to have absolutely no problems selling out at launch.



    The problem is, what happens down the road. Can the trendies keep the sales coming six months, a year, two years down the road? We can say that "Well, the iPod is bought partly by trendies, and its still going strong and is moving 10 million units a quarter"... but most of that are relatively cheap Nanos and Shuffles, not $500-600 units (in fact, there isn't an iPod in that price range). Plus the commitment of being in a long-term contract, the cost of service, and the cost of the data plan. Whew.



    At these prices, at some point you have to start selling to a more discerning crowd to keep the momentum going. A crowd that actually knows what high-speed data is, and wonders why the heck a $600 iPhone doesn't have it, when $99 phones do. \



    And that's just the US. In Europe and Asia, where Apple is less of a household name, where the cellular market is more sophisticated and 3G has been around longer, Apple runs into that crowd a whole lot sooner.



    Quote:

    Yes the logic of how Apple is doing this is confusing right now. It doesn't make any sense to introduce an iPhone right now without 3G then introduce one with 3G months later. You will piss off the people who bought an iPhone early and could impact scale of economy.



    The most logical theory I've heard revolves around power management and battery life.



    3G sucks more juice than EDGE, you already have a very large screen sucking lots of power, and Apple perhaps was initially unsure that they'd be able to get battery life to the point where the iPhone was viable with 3G. This was made extra critical by their design choice to have the battery be non-removable.



    Also, ATT's 3G coverage is still pretty poor, and Apple could err on the side of "well, the customers are not missing much yet" with no 3G (though of course ATT's 3G coverage will be much better in a year or so). Plus, they could use WiFi as a cover, and have, to some effect.



    However, final iPhone battery life specs appeared just this week, and it looks like any power management issues have been resolved... battery life now looks great. So now the road is clear to do a 3G version.



    No doubt they want to, for Europe and Asia. And then they'd likely want to circle back and release it in the US, for the holdouts/more discerning customers. And to head off any high-end phone competitors that will be appearing, no doubt touting their inclusion of 3G as a selling point over the iPhone.



    After all, speed is a very easy thing to sell on:



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cicguTDA6wE





    Quote:

    Apple also has no recent precedent of releasing products around the world that have different specs. It wouldn't be smart because that also hurts the scale of economy. If they are using 3G at all they should have in all phones.



    I think they will have it in all phones, it'll just take a bit of time. See above.



    .
  • Reply 117 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    What I would like to know, and I'm sure the numbers are out there, is just what percentage of people both here, Europe, Japan, and the rest of the world, are using 3G in those areas where it is available.



    Of course, Apple, the cell manufacturers, and the cell network providers know this.



    If we had all of those numbers, if would help us to understand what the situation really is.



    Basically, 3G is popular in Asia (specifically, 'richer Asia', i.e. Japan and Korea), and is ramping up fairly rapidly from a low base in the US and Europe, with Europe quite a bit further along:



    According to industry reports, there are currently 151 3G license holders operating in 56 countries and 207 3G-networks globally, serving a total of 200 million 3G users worldwide.



    In Asia, 3G subscribers have reached a market share of 38% while 62% of the total mobile subscribers are 3G enabled in Japan and Korea, respectively.




    http://www.quicklybored.com/content/?p=1160



    Some graphics:















    In the US, 3G still has a-ways to go (we are way behind Japan and Korea in 3G penetration), but guess what'll drive demand for it? Yep, mobile 'internet rich' devices like... the iPhone.



    .
  • Reply 118 of 141
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    Of course, Apple, the cell manufacturers, and the cell network providers know this.



    Which is why Apple may not worry about 3G in the near term.



    Quote:

    Watch and learn Teno. No 'secret 3G' announced though launch week. Launch day getting closer, closer, hoping, hoping.... nah. Drat. Then someone will do an iPhone teardown a couple of weeks later, and there won't be any UMTS/HSDPA radio in there. Sad to say.



    I'm not saying Apple will do this. Honestly I'm not emotionally invested in 3G.



    My two basic points are that Apple has a couple of options and this is one they could do. The other is the fact that no one knows what Apple will do. Many try to predict, but at best its a shot in the dark.



    Quote:

    Jobs saying that 3G iPhones were in the pipeline is just the icing on the expectations cake.



    Frankly, I would be shocked if we were here a year from now, and Apple still hadn't announced or released a 3G iPhone.



    People constantly accuse Apple hardware of being over priced and under featured. But that criticism has never forced them do anything any quicker or any different from what they've decided to do. I don't believe it'll be any different with the iPhone.



    Quote:

    However, final iPhone battery life specs appeared just this week, and it looks like any power management issues have been resolved... battery life now looks great. So now the road is clear to do a 3G version.



    If this is the theory. The battery issues have been resolved, then there is no reason we cannot have 3G now. Which leaves me to believe the battery wasn't the problem.
  • Reply 119 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Sry, double post.



    .
  • Reply 120 of 141
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Which is why Apple may not worry about 3G in the near term.



    Guess it depends by what you mean 'near term'.



    In the US, of course, iPhone 1.0 will be launching next week with 2.5G. And they may even try to launch it in Europe late this year without 3G as well... at first anyway, even though its not such a great idea.



    But in Asia... wow. The Asian launch is slated for 2008, where two of the key and richest markets, Japan and Korea, already have 3G penetration rates of over 50%, and increasing rapidly. By 2008, it will be hard to find a handset over there that isn't 3G.



    So, the iPhone is going to launch over there without it, and expect to be succesful? Uhh... no. \



    And this is probably why Apple scheduled the launch in this way... they wanted to be 110% certain they'd be able to offer a 3G iPhone to a market that would absolutely demand one. Intelligent planning.





    Quote:

    People constantly accuse Apple hardware of being over priced and under featured. But that criticism has never forced them do anything any quicker or any different from what they've decided to do.



    That does not seem to be true. I seem to remember the G4 Cube being price cut in an attempt to 'save' it, in response to a lot of feedback saying that, while people liked the Cube, they didn't think it was worth near what Apple was charging for it.



    Apple is stubborn, sure, but they're not suicidal. If lack of 3G is dragging the iPhone down in a market, they'll rectify the situation. And if its obvious that the iPhone can't be successful in a market without it, it'll launch with it (hi Asia).



    Jobs has already stated that 3G iPhones are in the pipeline. I don't see a major conflict here. The question is obviously not whether we'll get 3G iPhones, but rather, how soon.





    Quote:

    If this is the theory. The battery issues have been resolved, then there is no reason we cannot have 3G now. Which leaves me to believe the battery wasn't the problem.



    If only it were that easy. Adding the required additional 3G radio to the iPhone isn't as easy as snapping one's fingers. For one thing, it takes up space in what is a very slim form factor, so some redesign may be necessary. And of course, following that, there would need to be additional and exhaustive testing of the new version. Did you check out the USA Today article, where they went into how much they tested the iPhone? It was impressive:



    Thandu is one of about 200 field technicians who have been secretly testing the iPhone and looking for technical glitches for more than 10 weeks and counting. AT&T routinely tests new devices, but the iPhone has been different, Thandu says. The technicians have logged more than 10,000 hours on the phone, including more than 5,000 hours of voice calls and near 5 gigabytes of data usage. Most phones, he says, get about half that much test time.



    ...For the actual testing, technicians frequented all the places where consumers go: office buildings, subway platforms, stairwells, elevators, crowded bars, sprawling suburban malls and congested city streets. They also showed up incognito at Apple and AT&T stores.



    To test iPhone's durability, Thandu says, they doused it with water, dropped it on concrete and bounced it off sidewalks.






    In short, if the power management problems were fixed only recently (and given that the battery life times given at MWSF were different and a lot shorter than the ones given recently, I have to conclude this), no, we would not be set to get a 3G iPhone 'now'.



    But in '08? Likely.



    .
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