Why not a small tablet, maybe 4" X 7" or there about? I see people in stores going around with devices about that size, apparently taking shelf inventory. A small touch screen table might be ideal for that job, and many other jobs to for that matter.
I think I remember seeing a handheld barcode reader plugged into these inventory devices. If the application put up a keypad, the user could enter the quantity easily. I think a 4 X 7 inch hard-faced tablet would be useful in business, as well as personal life. And it's small!
You're missing the point! We don't need "extra devices" that aren't quite general purpose computers but are more like an older WiFi only iPhone brother! If you want a tablet that doesn't do much of anything I suggest you look at the Nokia 800 tablet.
Then there is design. The iPhone is a 3.5" screen with a single home button, some switches for whatever along the side, and a multi touch screen for input that fits in your pocket! What am I going to do with the tablet described above? Hold a 10" tablet and type with the other hand and for what added benefits? I certainly wouldn't be coding anything on it, it wouldn't be any good for taking notes (size plays a factor in this, don't just point at the iPhone and say "Oh look, that works! Implement it!" because the iPhone is a completely different device) in class, I might be able to edit a photo but that's about it. Oh maybe if it had a stylus it could get the notes down but then I could just use my Macbook for that (although I'd much rather write than type).
Further, who the hell wants to lug around a keyboard SEPARATELY? If I wanted to do that I'd be using an iMac instead of a Macbook because hey, it's just a laptop in desktop form anyways and who needs portability? Right...
So why the swivel screen design? The keyboard and trackpad could stay and when I needed to take notes, doodle something, or read a PDF (I prefer reading on a horizontal plane like a book instead of a vertical plane on screen) I could just switch it into Tablet mode and do just that and it stays a general purpose computer instead of a tablet that doesn't do much of anything because it would be "cool"
Easy there horsey.
You'll look like a right idiot if Apple makes a tablet then.
The whole point of the tablet is no moving parts, or at least not as many a laptop, endless possibilities for keyboard and interactive UI configurations, and direct software interaction. Hell Apple could even make a special custom, hardware keyboard for people like you, as an optional extra that could just snap on and snap off when you need to write that novel.
The tablet itself could have a small little spring-loaded flap on the back-that when pulled out-you could rest the tablet on a table at about 30º--a perfect angle for typing on the on-screen keyboard--or in a classroom type situation. With the right sensor a stylus could be used too, if you liked.
I guess no one likes my 4 X 7 tablet for scanning inventory. Hey, it could even have a built-in barcode reader, so the user doesn't need two pieces of hardware. Also a built in camera, so it's a large viewing screen camera. It could do the Google Maps too, and maybe even a GPS navigation option. It could dock in your car for finding places and trip planning along the road, with notification of traffic conditions.
Hell, I would take something like that over the iPhone. It's bigger and more readable, though I could read the tiny print on iPhone Maps without too much trouble. I've got a name for it too: the iPad.
I need my computer to work when I need it to work without any fussing over an external keyboard, if I want to use it as a tablet for a particular task I should be able to just flip the screen over and use it as that, but if I need to compose an email I'd much rather have a keyboard with tactile feedback.
You are missing one thing.. I said this would be Apple's ultra-portable. i.e. 10" solid-state, sleek, thin, multi-touch tablet. They would continue to make their 13 and 15 Inch notebooks. I was saying they would go the whole hog and make their ultra-portable a full-on tablet, and dump the keyboard. You probably don't like tablets, either do I, but Apple didn't make theirs yet did they?
Further, I need my computer to work when I need it to work without any fussing over an external keyboard, if I want to use it as a tablet for a particular task I should be able to just flip the screen over and use it as that, but if I need to compose an email I'd much rather have a keyboard with tactile feedback. The Keyboard and Mouse/Trackpad is a tested input device that works and doesn't need to be replaced.
I still don't think there needs to be a keyboard. Tactile feedback is good on a keyboard simply because you are looking in a different direction from where you are typing. On-screen keyboards can be as close as you like to where you type.
A physical keyboard can't be used with the machine at all in portrait mode so in the interests of keeping the dimensions down, I don't think it has to come with it. No hinge and therefore no extra plastic can reduce the thickness considerably.
The modbook doesn't have a keyboard built-in and it doesn't have multi-touch:
One huge advantage I can see with a software-based keyboard is that one product is immediately international. No keyboard replacement required for China, Brazil etc.
So what you're telling me is that I should write an essay on a multitouch keyboard or with a stylus? That makes absolutely no sense!
Of course not, although in lectures, I wrote out notes faster than I could type them so I went with pen and paper so I think that handwriting would be used a lot. For the likes of essays, you'd probably use an external keyboard but I don't see how that would be any different from a touch keyboard. As a lot of people are finding out with the iphone, touch typing isn't any harder than using a physical keyboard, it just takes getting used to.
You get fold-up keyboards if you need portability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis
The point I'm making is that the Tablet/Notebook hybrid can be used however you please and it stays a general purpose computer, not a slate that acts like an older brother to the iPhone but isn't quite a Mac
I agree but I don't think this would be as long as the CPU was fast enough. If they just remove the keyboard and trackpad, you basically have a portable touch-screen iMac.
I can live with a slate that has a sensible mobile dock to turn it into a erzatz notebook.
A MT slate really only needs to last a couple hours by itself so can have a slimmer battery. A second battery in the base with keyboard, optical drive and HDD that allows for a slim, very light slate with a SSD would be very nice. The weight of the larger battery, HDD, and other stuff should help offset the weight of sticking the CPU/GPU into the slate body to make it less tippy than it would otherwise be.
Slewis: you've taken to posting my thoughts for me, and I appreciate that. Saves time .
I guess I'll dredge up my old form factor rant, haven't used it for a while now....
There are things that fit in your pocket, like the iPhone. They are great, because you can literally have them on you at all times.
Then there are laptops. They're great, because they provide a full computing experience in a portable form factor.
And then there is the endlessly championed "in-between" something something that never seems to go anywhere. Why is that?
Because as soon as you get bigger than pocket size, you've left behind the "always have it on you" advantage, and you might as well go straight to the "full computing experience" level, AKA a sub-portable laptop.
I don't want to carry around a 5x7 thing that has all of the compromises of a handheld without being pocket sized, anymore than I want to carry around a 8x10 thing that has most of the bulk of a sub-notebook without having all the functionality.
That's the reason there isn't any natural "middle ground" between pocket sized and sub-notebook sized: either it fits in my shirt pocket, or it doesn't, in which case the next logical size is "big enough to accommodate a keyboard."
So, OK, you say, I want a sub-notebook sized tablet. And I say, once I have a form factor that accommodates a more-or-less full sized keyboard, why do I want to leave that off?
Because a keyboard is so incredibly heavy and massive? It just isn't. And what do you get in trade-off (and it's always about trade-offs) for your slightly thicker, slightly heavier has-a-real-keyboard sub-laptop? Much, much, much more functionality.
For a pure tablet to justify jettisoning a physical keyboard, it would have to offer a great deal of size or weight advantages in order to offset all that functionality, and it doesn't.
But, you say, iPhone shows us the wonders of a virtual keyboard! But what iPhone shows us is how smart UI designers can make a virtue of a limitation and cram functionality in that all-important "fits in my pocket" segment. Once we leave that behind, that's pointless.
I'm with Slewis-- I would be interested in a tablet/sub-notebook hybrid that lets me carry around a tablet if I just want to look at the internet or watch a movie, but provides a proper keyboard when I want to use a real computer. For that huge improvement in convenience, I am willing to add a few ounces and .25" of thickness. Who wouldn't-- it's basically a win-win.
Just fixating on the "coolness" of a pure tablet doesn't take into account some pretty basic truths about how people use computers.
I read everything you said, now I'm starting to wonder if you're reading everything I'm saying. I have no problem with a tablet, provided there's a full keyboard built in with the option to use it as either a notebook or a tablet based on the circumstances.
Comments
Why not a small tablet, maybe 4" X 7" or there about? I see people in stores going around with devices about that size, apparently taking shelf inventory. A small touch screen table might be ideal for that job, and many other jobs to for that matter.
I think I remember seeing a handheld barcode reader plugged into these inventory devices. If the application put up a keypad, the user could enter the quantity easily. I think a 4 X 7 inch hard-faced tablet would be useful in business, as well as personal life. And it's small!
You're missing the point! We don't need "extra devices" that aren't quite general purpose computers but are more like an older WiFi only iPhone brother! If you want a tablet that doesn't do much of anything I suggest you look at the Nokia 800 tablet.
Then there is design. The iPhone is a 3.5" screen with a single home button, some switches for whatever along the side, and a multi touch screen for input that fits in your pocket! What am I going to do with the tablet described above? Hold a 10" tablet and type with the other hand and for what added benefits? I certainly wouldn't be coding anything on it, it wouldn't be any good for taking notes (size plays a factor in this, don't just point at the iPhone and say "Oh look, that works! Implement it!" because the iPhone is a completely different device) in class, I might be able to edit a photo but that's about it. Oh maybe if it had a stylus it could get the notes down but then I could just use my Macbook for that (although I'd much rather write than type).
Further, who the hell wants to lug around a keyboard SEPARATELY? If I wanted to do that I'd be using an iMac instead of a Macbook because hey, it's just a laptop in desktop form anyways and who needs portability? Right...
So why the swivel screen design? The keyboard and trackpad could stay and when I needed to take notes, doodle something, or read a PDF (I prefer reading on a horizontal plane like a book instead of a vertical plane on screen) I could just switch it into Tablet mode and do just that and it stays a general purpose computer instead of a tablet that doesn't do much of anything because it would be "cool"
Easy there horsey.
You'll look like a right idiot if Apple makes a tablet then.
The whole point of the tablet is no moving parts, or at least not as many a laptop, endless possibilities for keyboard and interactive UI configurations, and direct software interaction. Hell Apple could even make a special custom, hardware keyboard for people like you, as an optional extra that could just snap on and snap off when you need to write that novel.
The tablet itself could have a small little spring-loaded flap on the back-that when pulled out-you could rest the tablet on a table at about 30º--a perfect angle for typing on the on-screen keyboard--or in a classroom type situation. With the right sensor a stylus could be used too, if you liked.
I guess no one likes my 4 X 7 tablet for scanning inventory. Hey, it could even have a built-in barcode reader, so the user doesn't need two pieces of hardware. Also a built in camera, so it's a large viewing screen camera. It could do the Google Maps too, and maybe even a GPS navigation option. It could dock in your car for finding places and trip planning along the road, with notification of traffic conditions.
Hell, I would take something like that over the iPhone. It's bigger and more readable, though I could read the tiny print on iPhone Maps without too much trouble. I've got a name for it too: the iPad.
Look at the 2nd Image here. That's pretty much what I'm trying to describe.
You think Steve Jobs would let that kind of design out the door, pull the other one.
I need my computer to work when I need it to work without any fussing over an external keyboard, if I want to use it as a tablet for a particular task I should be able to just flip the screen over and use it as that, but if I need to compose an email I'd much rather have a keyboard with tactile feedback.
You are missing one thing.. I said this would be Apple's ultra-portable. i.e. 10" solid-state, sleek, thin, multi-touch tablet. They would continue to make their 13 and 15 Inch notebooks. I was saying they would go the whole hog and make their ultra-portable a full-on tablet, and dump the keyboard. You probably don't like tablets, either do I, but Apple didn't make theirs yet did they?
Further, I need my computer to work when I need it to work without any fussing over an external keyboard, if I want to use it as a tablet for a particular task I should be able to just flip the screen over and use it as that, but if I need to compose an email I'd much rather have a keyboard with tactile feedback. The Keyboard and Mouse/Trackpad is a tested input device that works and doesn't need to be replaced.
I still don't think there needs to be a keyboard. Tactile feedback is good on a keyboard simply because you are looking in a different direction from where you are typing. On-screen keyboards can be as close as you like to where you type.
A physical keyboard can't be used with the machine at all in portrait mode so in the interests of keeping the dimensions down, I don't think it has to come with it. No hinge and therefore no extra plastic can reduce the thickness considerably.
The modbook doesn't have a keyboard built-in and it doesn't have multi-touch:
http://www.macworld.com/2007/01/firs...index.php?pf=1
One huge advantage I can see with a software-based keyboard is that one product is immediately international. No keyboard replacement required for China, Brazil etc.
So what you're telling me is that I should write an essay on a multitouch keyboard or with a stylus? That makes absolutely no sense!
Of course not, although in lectures, I wrote out notes faster than I could type them so I went with pen and paper so I think that handwriting would be used a lot. For the likes of essays, you'd probably use an external keyboard but I don't see how that would be any different from a touch keyboard. As a lot of people are finding out with the iphone, touch typing isn't any harder than using a physical keyboard, it just takes getting used to.
You get fold-up keyboards if you need portability.
The point I'm making is that the Tablet/Notebook hybrid can be used however you please and it stays a general purpose computer, not a slate that acts like an older brother to the iPhone but isn't quite a Mac
I agree but I don't think this would be as long as the CPU was fast enough. If they just remove the keyboard and trackpad, you basically have a portable touch-screen iMac.
A MT slate really only needs to last a couple hours by itself so can have a slimmer battery. A second battery in the base with keyboard, optical drive and HDD that allows for a slim, very light slate with a SSD would be very nice. The weight of the larger battery, HDD, and other stuff should help offset the weight of sticking the CPU/GPU into the slate body to make it less tippy than it would otherwise be.
Vinea
I guess I'll dredge up my old form factor rant, haven't used it for a while now....
There are things that fit in your pocket, like the iPhone. They are great, because you can literally have them on you at all times.
Then there are laptops. They're great, because they provide a full computing experience in a portable form factor.
And then there is the endlessly championed "in-between" something something that never seems to go anywhere. Why is that?
Because as soon as you get bigger than pocket size, you've left behind the "always have it on you" advantage, and you might as well go straight to the "full computing experience" level, AKA a sub-portable laptop.
I don't want to carry around a 5x7 thing that has all of the compromises of a handheld without being pocket sized, anymore than I want to carry around a 8x10 thing that has most of the bulk of a sub-notebook without having all the functionality.
That's the reason there isn't any natural "middle ground" between pocket sized and sub-notebook sized: either it fits in my shirt pocket, or it doesn't, in which case the next logical size is "big enough to accommodate a keyboard."
So, OK, you say, I want a sub-notebook sized tablet. And I say, once I have a form factor that accommodates a more-or-less full sized keyboard, why do I want to leave that off?
Because a keyboard is so incredibly heavy and massive? It just isn't. And what do you get in trade-off (and it's always about trade-offs) for your slightly thicker, slightly heavier has-a-real-keyboard sub-laptop? Much, much, much more functionality.
For a pure tablet to justify jettisoning a physical keyboard, it would have to offer a great deal of size or weight advantages in order to offset all that functionality, and it doesn't.
But, you say, iPhone shows us the wonders of a virtual keyboard! But what iPhone shows us is how smart UI designers can make a virtue of a limitation and cram functionality in that all-important "fits in my pocket" segment. Once we leave that behind, that's pointless.
I'm with Slewis-- I would be interested in a tablet/sub-notebook hybrid that lets me carry around a tablet if I just want to look at the internet or watch a movie, but provides a proper keyboard when I want to use a real computer. For that huge improvement in convenience, I am willing to add a few ounces and .25" of thickness. Who wouldn't-- it's basically a win-win.
Just fixating on the "coolness" of a pure tablet doesn't take into account some pretty basic truths about how people use computers.
So, Aries, are you for or against an Apple tablet?
I'm in favor of an Apple Tablet like a lion is in favor of fresh meat.
V/R,
Aries 1B
Welcome, and Thanks, I was starting to get lonely in here.
Sebastian
I opened up my iMac, but you weren't inside?
I read everything you said, now I'm starting to wonder if you're reading everything I'm saying. I have no problem with a tablet, provided there's a full keyboard built in with the option to use it as either a notebook or a tablet based on the circumstances.
You are missing the point. Think different.