My two cents on the Keyboard issue are fairly straightforward.
The AI story seems to point to Jobs and Ive looking to produce a uber-cool keyboard to complement the new iMac.
While many may see this as a good thing, this is the kind of thinking that gave us the Hockey Puck mouse.
Unless Apple's going to build in some LCD app-specific menu stuff, I don't see the keyboard as being a huge upgrade. I'll just be happy that it's no longer white.
The mouse, however, is another story. Those patent applications for bringing iPhone tech to the lowly mouse seem very plausible.
Do NOT forget the shortened keyboard they included with the imac. Remember they went from full size to laptop size on the original imacs (can't remember how many revs in). I HATED that keyboard more than any keyboard i have ever used. I just hope apple doesn't make that mistake again.
The only way to get a mini under $500 would be to toss out the Core Duo in favor of a Celeron M. And trust me, that'd be a dishonor to the whole Apple name.
The only way to get a mini under $500 would be to toss out the Core Duo in favor of a Celeron M. And trust me, that'd be a dishonor to the whole Apple name.
Wow, dude. That is quite a laundry list of complaints. Have you tried bringing the keyboard forward a bit, and placing the mouse parallel, and slightly to the back of the screen? I was suffering from some carpal tunnel, and this fixed everything for me. It keeps the keyboard in a good location parallel to the monitor, and forces you to keep your mousing hand extended.
As far as your other points, Exposé is a huge part of OS X, so don't expect to see the F-keys go anywhere anytime soon. I use them hundreds of times a day, at the very least.
As for media keys, I can't see Apple adding any. The point of the Apple experience is that the software is so easy, simple key commands, if any, are all that's necessary to operate them. They also won't add labels to the keyboard indicating copy or paste. Apple prefers minimalistic design, so the last thing they want to do is complicate one of the primary input devices of their computers.
If anything, Apple will totally rethink the keyboard, coming up with a new way for it to work. Keyboards are truly stuck in the past, containing many long dead buttons, and complicate layouts. This might be many years off, but Apple is probably working on the next input paradigm for computers, possibly adding multi-touch (as evidence in their recent mouse patent), or something similar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by visionary
I am amazed at all the people who are complaining about the past Apple keyboards. Not that people don't like them but the reasons why they don't like them. My biggest complaint is the number pad to the right. It forces me to put my mouse way to the right beyond what is ergonomically correct. Either that or I have to shift the center of keyboard way to the left......
You've got it all wrong-- its the Royal Typewriter that had it right. Of course, the IBM Selectric did have that wonderful "industrial sound" as the ball bashed the platen.
The IBM Selectric keyboard has been acknowledged as being the best keyboard ever made.
Personally, I don't like the laptop keyboards. Maybe I am old school, but I think the best keyboards have slightly larger keys, on a sloping keyboard, and a good degree of tactile feedback. In fact, I hearken for days the old clickity IBM keyboards.
But whole should really care? I may love the new keyboard...and if I do not, I could always buy an old mac pro keyboard (~$20 on ebay) or a PC-keyboard and learn to fiddle with the keystrokes.
Reportedly, Intel is just about to come out with their Penryn/45 mm cores and newer (presumably faster) chipsets. A newer chipset does not necessarily mean more expensive (especially when Apple promises to buy in bulk). Quite possibly the newer chips will come out in late July/August and Apple will be right there with the new hardware. The newer chips will compete favorably with the current q6600 and q6700 (about $500/900 on newegg right now).
I would just desire a more "prosumer" tower built with c2d or quad c2 chips, instead of the expensive but mighty Xeons. Being able to add a 750gb or terabyte drive when they are down to $150 would be nice. Already, 500gb drives are <$150...A little expandibility in drives, video cards, etc would make some folks (myself) more comfortable.
And USB 1.1 is called "Full Speed" while USB 2.0 is called "Hi-Speed".
If Apple calls their laptop keyboards "full size", then their desktop keyboards must be super size.
Sometimes when referring to laptop keyboards, full-size" refers to the size of the keys themselves, most importantly the alphanumeric keys of the old QWERTY layout. All the little function keys, numeric keypad, arrow keys are often shrunken and jumbled into peculiar positions in laptops, but having "full size" letter keys will make the difference when you are typing a letter, IM, etc. Even gigantic laptops are rarely able to accommodate a "full keyboard", and even then they rarely can have a nice slope to the keyboard, etc, since that would certainly get in the way of being a portable computer.
Personally, I don't like the laptop keyboards. Maybe I am old school, but I think the best keyboards have slightly larger keys, on a sloping keyboard, and a good degree of tactile feedback. In fact, I hearken for days the old clickity IBM keyboards.
But whole should really care? I may love the new keyboard...and if I do not, I could always buy an old mac pro keyboard (~$20 on ebay) or a PC-keyboard and learn to fiddle with the keystrokes.
Reportedly, Intel is just about to come out with their Penryn/45 mm cores and newer (presumably faster) chipsets. A newer chipset does not necessarily mean more expensive (especially when Apple promises to buy in bulk). Quite possibly the newer chips will come out in late July/August and Apple will be right there with the new hardware. The newer chips will compete favorably with the current q6600 and q6700 (about $500/900 on newegg right now).
I would just desire a more "prosumer" tower built with c2d or quad c2 chips, instead of the expensive but mighty Xeons. Being able to add a 750gb or terabyte drive when they are down to $150 would be nice. Already, 500gb drives are <$150...A little expandibility in drives, video cards, etc would make some folks (myself) more comfortable.
You got a few more months to go before penryn is out. According to Maximum PC the earliest will be November, December for bulk. They are ahead of schedule, that is for sure. But I wouldn't count on Penryn being around in summer.
Do NOT forget the shortened keyboard they included with the imac. Remember they went from full size to laptop size on the original imacs (can't remember how many revs in). I HATED that keyboard more than any keyboard i have ever used. I just hope apple doesn't make that mistake again.
It happened when the original Bondi Blue iMac was released in '97, at the same time they unveiled the puck mouse (both of which were ergonomically atrocious, but looked kinda cool for the time).
That keyboard was replaced in 2000 by a very well built design, which happens to be my favorite Apple keyboard of all time. I still don't think the minimalist stylish design, good tactile feedback and slick black keys have not been matched in the current design.
White (or even beige of the olden days) is terrible for keyboards as it shows the dirtiness of the keys. But it is nice for the keyboard and mouse to match the system, so I can understand it from that perspective.
My hope is that if they do release another "minimalist" design that mimics a laptop keyboard, they will have an alternate "full size" design that can be at least custom ordered. Nothing beats tactile feedback. And I hate feeling like my hands are cramped.
I'm also hoping for a new mouse design, which Apple has almost always released alongside a respective keyboard (I wouldn't consider the Mighty Mouse a new design, just an evolution of the old one).
To be honest, I really don't expect that I will like whatever they come up with. And will probably just order another Logitech MX Revolution and similar keyboard. But either way, I have my credit card waiting for the day the new iMac is released : )
I am extremely happy apple finally decided to do this. Their current kb is total crap. It is completely ergonomic unfriendly. ...
Finally the keys... the current keys on the kb have such horrible feel after a few weeks. They started sticking on me (most notably the left cmd key). I'm curious as to what apple will produce but i'm not holding my breath on anything earth shattering.
Good -in a manner of speaking- to hear I am not the only person whose keyboard Left Command key has gone wonky. It is so bad now that i am thinking of buying a new keyboard, and it will probably be a sloped ergo keyboard. The number of times now I have to either really smash down on the left command key, or else move my whole hand to tap it on the one 'magic spot' that works (from directly in front, bottom center is only clean push way) that I frequently get multiple command key operations in a row. REALLY aggravating. Destroys any of my high speed typing riffs... \
I agree that the recent Apple keyboards have been OK but not stellar (see my post above about problem with Left side Command key).
Probably the last non-Apple, Mac-friendly 'traditional' keyboard I really liked was the Datadesk 101E (years back, when there was a Datadesk hardware company).
But these days what I really want is a Mac-friendly, Mac-keyed ergo board that is not too expensive and not to bizarre. Something that lets me have the keys in Mac order of left-side Ctrl-Opt-Cmd. not the Windows substitute of Ctrl-Win-Alt. And as far as the ergo, a slight slope and slight curve. ... I don't care what color (as long as subdued). Will Apple ever make such a keyboard?
Do you guys think that a new iMac keyboard will trigger product revisions across the entire Macintosh family?
Commonality would suggest that it is beneficial for Apple to ship one type of keyboard across the entire Macintosh family ? and if Apple are having to look at the contents of the boxes again... then maybe they'll take the opportunity to revisit the specs?
One issue I will have is my Palm Treo 700w which only likes to synch with Outlook. I don't want to spend the money for an iPhone, so we will see what happens.
And so can millions of other non-rich people. All of which are lost business for Apple - customers that might have bought a mini or a low-end iMac, but now they're buying Dells. And thus, Apple loses money and marketshare.
Now do you see the problem?
i never said the mini or the low end iMacs should be discontinued... but they are still priced higher than dell's or other brands... especially the mini...
also, when mercedes released the A class to capitalize on non-rich customers, they lost the status they once had... i'm not sure apple wants to be seen as a discount brand
Comments
My two cents on the Keyboard issue are fairly straightforward.
The AI story seems to point to Jobs and Ive looking to produce a uber-cool keyboard to complement the new iMac.
While many may see this as a good thing, this is the kind of thinking that gave us the Hockey Puck mouse.
Unless Apple's going to build in some LCD app-specific menu stuff, I don't see the keyboard as being a huge upgrade. I'll just be happy that it's no longer white.
The mouse, however, is another story. Those patent applications for bringing iPhone tech to the lowly mouse seem very plausible.
Do NOT forget the shortened keyboard they included with the imac. Remember they went from full size to laptop size on the original imacs (can't remember how many revs in). I HATED that keyboard more than any keyboard i have ever used. I just hope apple doesn't make that mistake again.
So don't type too hard or pull-on the keys then!
So don't make laptop keyboards so flimsy and fragile then!
The only way to get a mini under $500 would be to toss out the Core Duo in favor of a Celeron M. And trust me, that'd be a dishonor to the whole Apple name.
or lower profit margins.
The only way to get a mini under $500 would be to toss out the Core Duo in favor of a Celeron M. And trust me, that'd be a dishonor to the whole Apple name.
AppleTV with Hackint0sh hacks.
As far as your other points, Exposé is a huge part of OS X, so don't expect to see the F-keys go anywhere anytime soon. I use them hundreds of times a day, at the very least.
As for media keys, I can't see Apple adding any. The point of the Apple experience is that the software is so easy, simple key commands, if any, are all that's necessary to operate them. They also won't add labels to the keyboard indicating copy or paste. Apple prefers minimalistic design, so the last thing they want to do is complicate one of the primary input devices of their computers.
If anything, Apple will totally rethink the keyboard, coming up with a new way for it to work. Keyboards are truly stuck in the past, containing many long dead buttons, and complicate layouts. This might be many years off, but Apple is probably working on the next input paradigm for computers, possibly adding multi-touch (as evidence in their recent mouse patent), or something similar.
I am amazed at all the people who are complaining about the past Apple keyboards. Not that people don't like them but the reasons why they don't like them. My biggest complaint is the number pad to the right. It forces me to put my mouse way to the right beyond what is ergonomically correct. Either that or I have to shift the center of keyboard way to the left......
You've got it all wrong-- its the Royal Typewriter that had it right. Of course, the IBM Selectric did have that wonderful "industrial sound" as the ball bashed the platen.
The IBM Selectric keyboard has been acknowledged as being the best keyboard ever made.
Not if you have small hands. I found the Macbook keyboard extremely difficult to type on.
Use larger hands.
But whole should really care? I may love the new keyboard...and if I do not, I could always buy an old mac pro keyboard (~$20 on ebay) or a PC-keyboard and learn to fiddle with the keystrokes.
Reportedly, Intel is just about to come out with their Penryn/45 mm cores and newer (presumably faster) chipsets. A newer chipset does not necessarily mean more expensive (especially when Apple promises to buy in bulk). Quite possibly the newer chips will come out in late July/August and Apple will be right there with the new hardware. The newer chips will compete favorably with the current q6600 and q6700 (about $500/900 on newegg right now).
I would just desire a more "prosumer" tower built with c2d or quad c2 chips, instead of the expensive but mighty Xeons. Being able to add a 750gb or terabyte drive when they are down to $150 would be nice. Already, 500gb drives are <$150...A little expandibility in drives, video cards, etc would make some folks (myself) more comfortable.
And USB 1.1 is called "Full Speed" while USB 2.0 is called "Hi-Speed".
If Apple calls their laptop keyboards "full size", then their desktop keyboards must be super size.
Sometimes when referring to laptop keyboards, full-size" refers to the size of the keys themselves, most importantly the alphanumeric keys of the old QWERTY layout. All the little function keys, numeric keypad, arrow keys are often shrunken and jumbled into peculiar positions in laptops, but having "full size" letter keys will make the difference when you are typing a letter, IM, etc. Even gigantic laptops are rarely able to accommodate a "full keyboard", and even then they rarely can have a nice slope to the keyboard, etc, since that would certainly get in the way of being a portable computer.
Personally, I don't like the laptop keyboards. Maybe I am old school, but I think the best keyboards have slightly larger keys, on a sloping keyboard, and a good degree of tactile feedback. In fact, I hearken for days the old clickity IBM keyboards.
But whole should really care? I may love the new keyboard...and if I do not, I could always buy an old mac pro keyboard (~$20 on ebay) or a PC-keyboard and learn to fiddle with the keystrokes.
Reportedly, Intel is just about to come out with their Penryn/45 mm cores and newer (presumably faster) chipsets. A newer chipset does not necessarily mean more expensive (especially when Apple promises to buy in bulk). Quite possibly the newer chips will come out in late July/August and Apple will be right there with the new hardware. The newer chips will compete favorably with the current q6600 and q6700 (about $500/900 on newegg right now).
I would just desire a more "prosumer" tower built with c2d or quad c2 chips, instead of the expensive but mighty Xeons. Being able to add a 750gb or terabyte drive when they are down to $150 would be nice. Already, 500gb drives are <$150...A little expandibility in drives, video cards, etc would make some folks (myself) more comfortable.
You got a few more months to go before penryn is out. According to Maximum PC the earliest will be November, December for bulk. They are ahead of schedule, that is for sure. But I wouldn't count on Penryn being around in summer.
Do NOT forget the shortened keyboard they included with the imac. Remember they went from full size to laptop size on the original imacs (can't remember how many revs in). I HATED that keyboard more than any keyboard i have ever used. I just hope apple doesn't make that mistake again.
It happened when the original Bondi Blue iMac was released in '97, at the same time they unveiled the puck mouse (both of which were ergonomically atrocious, but looked kinda cool for the time).
That keyboard was replaced in 2000 by a very well built design, which happens to be my favorite Apple keyboard of all time. I still don't think the minimalist stylish design, good tactile feedback and slick black keys have not been matched in the current design.
White (or even beige of the olden days) is terrible for keyboards as it shows the dirtiness of the keys. But it is nice for the keyboard and mouse to match the system, so I can understand it from that perspective.
My hope is that if they do release another "minimalist" design that mimics a laptop keyboard, they will have an alternate "full size" design that can be at least custom ordered. Nothing beats tactile feedback. And I hate feeling like my hands are cramped.
I'm also hoping for a new mouse design, which Apple has almost always released alongside a respective keyboard (I wouldn't consider the Mighty Mouse a new design, just an evolution of the old one).
To be honest, I really don't expect that I will like whatever they come up with. And will probably just order another Logitech MX Revolution and similar keyboard. But either way, I have my credit card waiting for the day the new iMac is released : )
I am extremely happy apple finally decided to do this. Their current kb is total crap. It is completely ergonomic unfriendly. ...
Finally the keys... the current keys on the kb have such horrible feel after a few weeks. They started sticking on me (most notably the left cmd key). I'm curious as to what apple will produce but i'm not holding my breath on anything earth shattering.
Good -in a manner of speaking- to hear I am not the only person whose keyboard Left Command key has gone wonky. It is so bad now that i am thinking of buying a new keyboard, and it will probably be a sloped ergo keyboard. The number of times now I have to either really smash down on the left command key, or else move my whole hand to tap it on the one 'magic spot' that works (from directly in front, bottom center is only clean push way) that I frequently get multiple command key operations in a row. REALLY aggravating. Destroys any of my high speed typing riffs...
Probably the last non-Apple, Mac-friendly 'traditional' keyboard I really liked was the Datadesk 101E (years back, when there was a Datadesk hardware company).
But these days what I really want is a Mac-friendly, Mac-keyed ergo board that is not too expensive and not to bizarre. Something that lets me have the keys in Mac order of left-side Ctrl-Opt-Cmd. not the Windows substitute of Ctrl-Win-Alt. And as far as the ergo, a slight slope and slight curve. ... I don't care what color (as long as subdued). Will Apple ever make such a keyboard?
Commonality would suggest that it is beneficial for Apple to ship one type of keyboard across the entire Macintosh family ? and if Apple are having to look at the contents of the boxes again... then maybe they'll take the opportunity to revisit the specs?
So , yes, i'd expect a new keyboard release alongside a change ( to whatever extent ) in the machine that it attaches to.
One issue I will have is my Palm Treo 700w which only likes to synch with Outlook. I don't want to spend the money for an iPhone, so we will see what happens.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301039
Palm OS PDAs(2)
The following Palm-based PDAs with Palm Desktop 4.x installed can be synced with iSync (you will also need iSync Palm Conduit 1.2)
palmOne Tungsten family
palmOne Zire family
palmOne Treo family
Older Palm/Handspring PDAs with Palm Desktop 4.x
Other Palm OS PDAs
money/wealth comes from the Lord...period. People who don't realize this are fools. If you think wealth comes from you deserving it you are a fool.
What a complete and utter LIE!
Sure, he can do that.
And so can millions of other non-rich people. All of which are lost business for Apple - customers that might have bought a mini or a low-end iMac, but now they're buying Dells. And thus, Apple loses money and marketshare.
Now do you see the problem?
i never said the mini or the low end iMacs should be discontinued... but they are still priced higher than dell's or other brands... especially the mini...
also, when mercedes released the A class to capitalize on non-rich customers, they lost the status they once had... i'm not sure apple wants to be seen as a discount brand