Briefly: Sony boss calls Jobs "greedy," Vodafone on 3G iPhone, Apple Tech Talks

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  • Reply 61 of 123
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mattjumbo View Post


    You must be on crack, dude. While the PS3 is certainly more powerful from a games perspective, the Core Duo is no slouch. And with the mini being a full-on PC with hundreds of apps, it dominates the PS3 in every way *except* gaming and blu-ray playback.



    I have a mini in my home entertainment system and it does the following:



    -Skype video conferencing

    -Media center streaming and cataloging via front row

    -MAME gaming

    -web surfing

    -online chat

    -video chat

    -home security via iSight camera and Periscope

    -Gametap

    -Encoding movies with Handbrake



    Those are just the things I can think of off the top of my head. And, of course, it does all these thing at about a third the size of a PS3. Just because Sony decided to screw themselves by using the PS3 to push blu-ray, doesn't make the PS3 some great value. It doesn't matter how much Sony loses on each unit, its still overpriced, way overpriced, unless you want a blu-ray player.



    Which, of course, most people don't.



    If you install Linux on the PS3, it can probably do all those things that you suggest, except maybe Gametap.
  • Reply 62 of 123
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    That is my thoughts too, yet this is the first time I'm seen anyone share my sentiment. 2-3 decades of licensing an optical format will outshine a couple years of PS3 sales. (And yes people, there will be a need for physical media in the future. Bandwidth speeds are not there yet and won't be the majority of users for many moons).



    Sure, the majority of people won't be there for a while. But that same majority doesn't have HD tv sets, isn't going to drop money to get one, and is perfectly happy with DVDs. The majority you describe isn't going to set up and HD-based system, true. But nor are they going to invest in a Blu-Ray based system either.



    And 2-3 decades of licensing? You are *kidding* right? The DVD has barely had two decades and it had no competition. Blu-Ray, if it wins, would be lucky to have five years of dominance, let alone "2-3 decades".
  • Reply 63 of 123
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nicnac View Post


    You forgot the biggest abuse Sony has in store for customers once they complete dominance over the HD DVD format. Then, early adopters are going to find most of their equipment isn't 100% compatable with Sony's 'final' Blu-Ray specs.



    Sony does not own or control the Blu-Ray standard. They were always but one member in the Blu-Ray consortium.



    Quote:

    And as to all the people offended by the word J__, it's funny how Sony is taking a similar stance to Apple/Steve Jobs as the Japanese do to World War 2 history: "We did nothing wrong, and what about what they did to Asia? And, we're offended by that term."

    Once the J__s apologize for Nanking, forced brothels, and every other well-documented rape, then they can start complaining about silly little words like J__.



    Get over yourself. How any people in Japan that are alive now had _anything_ to do with the WWII atrocities? You are suggesting using a racial slur despite the fact that most Japanese have nothing to do with the government and nothing to do with WWII or the offending atrocities. Your reasoning is not rational, and is your complaint properly directed.
  • Reply 64 of 123
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Of course I had read the earlier discussion. My comment was meant to be generic and a minimally cluttered response to all references of "thief" (whether Blockbuster, Sony, Apple.....). But I agree I could have pointed to posters with earlier references of that term. However, since you did not put it within quotes (as you did with "highway robber") it seemed appropriate to assume that you agreed with the reference.



    I don't think the term thief applies to most companies (except maybe the oil companies but I suppose that might be closer to extortion than thievery).



    Regardless, I do consider the Mac Mini very overpriced for what it is. Maybe that price was correct when it was first introduced, but if it weren't an Apple computer, they would have long been put on the bargain rack and discontinued. By contrast, the PS3 packs in a large array of features which more than justify its price. And its abilities just keep growing with software updates; I read a couple of reviews from the beginning of the year regarding the PS3 as just a Blu-Ray player and most of the complaints have already been fixed via softare updates. These are being sold a fairly significant loss. Granted part of it is a self-serving attempt to make Blu-Ray win the HD format war which is more lucrative than short-term losses, but it's something Apple is not doing (nor would do). Nothing Apple sells is ever sold at a loss. Ever. Sony has a lot riding on Blu-Ray and I don't see Apple going out on a limb; for example, if the iPhone suddenly flops, Apple will just shrug and walk away with all the profits from sold hardware and the ongoing contract payments from AT&T and be no worse for the experiment.



    I can't speak to the longevity of the PS3 but considering I haven't heard the kind of widespread complaints that the Xbox 360 has endured and the one billion plus write-off MS is taking to fix it. Up until last week's price cut, I had no intention of buying a PS3 but I am quite impressed with it. Honestly, the last I was this impressed with a piece of electronics was when I first played around with OS X.
  • Reply 65 of 123
    Well, sure. And I can install Windows and Linux on my mini as well and the argument goes around and around.



    My point was that, other than games and blu-ray, a PS3 is certainly not better than a Mac Mini. The mini beats it handily on size, functionality, and HD space since the mini can be connected to external drives like the PS3 but also has an option to include a 160GB drive internally.
  • Reply 66 of 123
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AISI View Post


    The iPhone's motherboard has a second layer and the BlackJack is not thicker than the iPhone.



    Samsung BlackJack (GSM/EDGE/UMTS)

    Dimensions: 4.4"L x 2.3"W x 0.5"D

    Weight: 3.5 oz



    iPhone (GSM/EDGE)

    Dimensions: 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.46 inches

    Weight: 4.8 ounces



    In what universe is .5 not thicker than .46?



    Not a lot, sure. But still thicker.
  • Reply 67 of 123
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Of course I had read the earlier discussion. My comment was meant to be generic and a minimally cluttered response to all references of "thief" (whether Blockbuster, Sony, Apple.....). But I agree I could have pointed to posters with earlier references of that term. However, since you did not put it within quotes (as you did with "highway robber") it seemed appropriate to assume that you agreed with the reference.



    I don't think the term thief applies to most companies (except maybe the oil companies but I suppose that might be closer to extortion than thievery).



    Regardless, I do consider the Mac Mini very overpriced for what it is. Maybe that price was correct when it was first introduced, but if it weren't an Apple computer, they would have long been put on the bargain rack and discontinued. By contrast, the PS3 packs in a large array of features which more than justify its price. And its abilities just keep growing with software updates; I read a couple of reviews from the beginning of the year regarding the PS3 as just a Blu-Ray player and most of the complaints have already been fixed via softare updates. These are being sold a fairly significant loss. Granted part of it is a self-serving attempt to make Blu-Ray win the HD format war which is more lucrative than short-term losses, but it's something Apple is not doing (nor would do). Nothing Apple sells is ever sold at a loss. Ever. Sony has a lot riding on Blu-Ray and I don't see Apple going out on a limb; for example, if the iPhone suddenly flops, Apple will just shrug and walk away with all the profits from sold hardware and the ongoing contract payments from AT&T and be no worse for the experiment.



    I can't speak to the longevity of the PS3 but considering I haven't heard the kind of widespread complaints that the Xbox 360 has endured and the one billion plus write-off MS is taking to fix it. Up until last week's price cut, I had no intention of buying a PS3 but I am quite impressed with it. Honestly, the last I was this impressed with a piece of electronics was when I first played around with OS X.
  • Reply 68 of 123
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    First it was Michael Dell

    Then Steve Ballmer

    Now Howard Stringer



    What is it about SJ that riles these guys up so much? Their companies are bigger, they generate more revenue, their companies are worth more (except for Dell these days). For an "irrelevant niche player" Apple sure gets their goat. Not that I'm complaining.
  • Reply 69 of 123
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mattjumbo View Post


    Sure, the majority of people won't be there for a while. But that same majority doesn't have HD tv sets, isn't going to drop money to get one, and is perfectly happy with DVDs. The majority you describe isn't going to set up and HD-based system, true. But nor are they going to invest in a Blu-Ray based system either.



    I think that will change, that has been changing, albeit slowly, as HDTVs and HD players are continually dropping in price.



    Quote:

    And 2-3 decades of licensing? You are *kidding* right? The DVD has barely had two decades and it had no competition. Blu-Ray, if it wins, would be lucky to have five years of dominance, let alone "2-3 decades".



    A minor correction, DVD has only been available to the public for one decade, starting in 1997, and it's only been dominant for five years.



    The life of a format is still a matter of speculation. I think it will live for a decade or two, though probably not dominate, in part because the market will likely splinter because every download video store is basically its own format. To me, dominance doesn't matter (though would help), as long as gets to 10% of the market, it would suit me just fine, that's probably still enough sales volume to be worth exploiting.
  • Reply 70 of 123
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by caliminius View Post


    Good luck with that. While you're waiting for Apple to offer HD rentals (or even rentals period), I'll sit and enjoy the beautiful picture and immersive sound that my PS3 already pumps out via Blu-Ray discs. Meanwhile, you can sit around for the next 5 years enjoying YouTube videos on your AppleTV and hoping for Apple to introduce a rental model (and then waiting another 5 years for 720p content and then maybe in another 5 years they'll catch up to Blu-Ray's 1080p). If you think current movies suck so much, why are you even waiting for iTunes rentals?



    Um, Blu-Ray players are available for less than $1000 (like the $499 PS3 which is an excellent player and, as I've already said earlier, much more) and Blu-Ray movies are also available for less than $30 (on Amazon they range from $19.95 to $27.95 which is pretty much the same as DVD's when they first launched). Maybe you could get your facts right.



    Just the opposite of you, I haven't rented a movie since DVD launched. And I don't intend to change that now. And I'll never pay for digital downloads of iTunes locked content. And no self-destroying digital rentals. I actually value having the choice to watch my content on a device of my choosing, not being forced to buy Apple products to enjoy my content.



    Apple is thus far lagging behind most of its competitors at this point. The Tivo/Amazon Unbox link is really nice. You can rent/purchase content direct from your Tivo or from any web browser and have it download straight to your Tivo. And if you actually purchase something, once you've watched it you can just delete it off your Tivo and go back to Amazon's site and queue it up for download when you want to watch it again. This solution is far more elegant than Apple's current strategy of requiring the user to go to their computer to purchase items and then keep track of the media file forever. Then there's Xbox Live which already has 720p HD TV for purchase and 720p HD movies for rent.



    And please, Apple are as much thieves as any other company. How else can you justify them still selling the obsolete Mac Mini for $599 and $799?



    If you're point is that you prefer Sony's media implementation, fine. If you're point is that Apple isn't beating everyone's else's ass in the consumer space (especially Sony), then you're kidding yourself.
  • Reply 71 of 123
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mattjumbo View Post


    You must be on crack, dude. While the PS3 is certainly more powerful from a games perspective, the Core Duo is no slouch. And with the mini being a full-on PC with hundreds of apps, it dominates the PS3 in every way *except* gaming and blu-ray playback.



    I have a mini in my home entertainment system and it does the following:



    -Skype video conferencing

    -Media center streaming and cataloging via front row

    -MAME gaming

    -web surfing

    -online chat

    -video chat

    -home security via iSight camera and Periscope

    -Gametap

    -Encoding movies with Handbrake



    Those are just the things I can think of off the top of my head. And, of course, it does all these thing at about a third the size of a PS3. Just because Sony decided to screw themselves by using the PS3 to push blu-ray, doesn't make the PS3 some great value. It doesn't matter how much Sony loses on each unit, its still overpriced, way overpriced, unless you want a blu-ray player.



    Which, of course, most people don't.



    It already does media streaming and web surfing (you can even hook a USB or Bluetooth keyboard and mouse for a better browsing experience) . It also does online chat with other Playstation Network members (and maybe even audio and video but I'm not sure; I know it accepts USB video cameras).



    And really, it also serves as a trojan horse on many fronts. Media Center. Game System. Blu-Ray/DVD/SACD/CD player. Linux computer. And really, all of that DOES make it a great value.
  • Reply 72 of 123
    nicnacnicnac Posts: 59member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Sony does not own or control the Blu-Ray standard. They were always but one member in the Blu-Ray consortium.



    Are you under the misconception that Sony is a small-fry in the Blu-Ray/DVD-HD war? They will be, by far, the biggest winner if BD wins. And once again, as with all their previous propriatary formats, the customer who adopts this technology will lose. The difference this time is their format is going to dominate the industry.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Get over yourself. How any people in Japan that are alive now had _anything_ to do with the WWII atrocities? You are suggesting using a racial slur despite the fact that most Japanese have nothing to do with the government and nothing to do with WWII or the offending atrocities. Your reasoning is not rational, and is your complaint properly directed.



    You believe that it's only the Japanese government that continues to deny attrocities on civilians WW2? Most Japanese on the streets BELIEVE they were the victims of WW2 and are unjustly accused by Western powers. And you missed the point when I said J__ is a little word. If that word is racist, then Germans should be offended by Jerry, Americans should be offended by Yank, and the English should take offense with Pommie. Frenchie isn't safe. Jew isn't safe because it was (and continues to be) used with much hate. How far do we go with this?



    To conclude, the main thrust of my post was that Japanese people need to address the reasons for hate directed toward them and not hide behind a veneer of being a victim, or by distancing themselves from the events of WW2 by time, or by dissasociation with the government of then or today.
  • Reply 73 of 123
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    I assume you didn't read the original post (with what many reasonable people consider to be a racist reference) that led to a response, that led to a response, which led to my post. Please don't make a seemingly 'obvious'-sounding statement that misses the point.



    People can say or think what they will privately. But this is a public forum (and one that is now widely read and cited), and references such as a derisive "J" word to refer to the Japanese -- even if the writer thinks it is in jest -- are simply not cool. And, if people do that, they should expect to get called on it.



    End.of.story.



    I realize "Jap" was a derisive term used in WWII-era America, but can it seriously be considered racist in 2007? Japan and America are as closely tied as any two nations on Earth and "Jap" is the first syllable of the word Japanese, obviously.



    I don't think the context suggests any racism at all.
  • Reply 74 of 123
    err...Dell or Sony.



    Sony's market cap is 51 billion.

    Apple's is 121 billion.



    Apple is worth much, much more than Sony.
  • Reply 75 of 123
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mattjumbo View Post


    If you're point is that you prefer Sony's media implementation, fine. If you're point is that Apple isn't beating everyone's else's ass in the consumer space (especially Sony), then you're kidding yourself.



    That's a confusing set of statements. Neither one of which seems relevant to any of the points I made.



    Didn't say anything about Sony's media implementation. If I were to compare Sony's PS3 with Apple's AppleTV as media centers, I'd say the AppleTV is hand's down more elegant (except for the crap remote). But the AppleTV doesn't do much more than act as an iPod when all is said and done. The PS3 is also happy to accept file formats that the AppleTV would puke on (mpeg video for example) and accepts external storage devices. And since the PS3 can play DVD's, it can actually reduce the number of components instead of adding one. My ideal vision of an AppleTV is a blu-ray playing DVR with media streaming, something Apple will never offer on two fronts. If my Tivo could mate with my PS3 and give birth to some sort of unholy offspring, that would perfect.



    Didn't say anything about Sony (or any other company) beating Apple in the consumer space or vice versa. Of course, outside of media centers and mp3 players, where else is Apple in the consumer electronics space? As far as I can see, no where. So how are they "beating everyone's else's ass" exactly? Just because you say it, doesn't make it true.
  • Reply 76 of 123
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nicnac View Post


    Are you under the misconception that Sony is a small-fry in the Blu-Ray/DVD-HD war? They will be, by far, the biggest winner if BD wins. And once again, as with all their previous propriatary formats, the customer who adopts this technology will lose. The difference this time is their format is going to dominate the industry.



    Are you under the misconception that Sony has a controlling stake? They do not. It was a joint development of five hardware makers.



    Quote:

    You believe that it's only the Japanese government that continues to deny attrocities on civilians WW2? Most Japanese on the streets BELIEVE they were the victims of WW2 and are unjustly accused by Western powers. And you missed the point when I said J__ is a little word. If that word is racist, then Germans should be offended by Jerry, Americans should be offended by Yank, and the English should take offense with Pommie. Frenchie isn't safe. Jew isn't safe because it was (and continues to be) used with much hate. How far do we go with this?



    To conclude, the main thrust of my post was that Japanese people need to address the reasons for hate directed toward them and not hide behind a veneer of being a victim, or by distancing themselves from the events of WW2 by time, or by dissasociation with the government of then or today.



    While I agree that the Japanese need to address problems, everyone has problems that need to be addressed, I really don't believe for a moment that the WWII atrocities are behind most uses of the racial slur. As far as I know, except for one, nobody uses the other words you suggested, I think because they are stupid words to use.



    I really don't care how you justify it, AppleInsider is not the place for it.
  • Reply 77 of 123
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mattjumbo View Post


    The mini beats it handily on size, functionality, and HD space since the mini can be connected to external drives like the PS3 but also has an option to include a 160GB drive internally.



    PS3 has a user serviceable hard drive. They include swap-out instructions with the machine. You pop a side hatch and the drive slides out. It's a standard notebook SATA drive in a little tray like the Mac Pro's drive tray, but smaller.



    I'm not saying the mini is a bad machine, what I'm saying is that the PS3 hardware itself is a few multiples more powerful, and otherwise, includes a very similar set of technologies and capabilities. I wish it could run a standard consumer computer OS, but what it outputs is just stunning. I happen to have a Power Mac in my home theater, but that doesn't matter because it too just can't scratch what I bought the PS3 to do.
  • Reply 78 of 123
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by caliminius View Post


    That's a confusing set of statements. Neither one of which seems relevant to any of the points I made.



    Didn't say anything about Sony's media implementation. If I were to compare Sony's PS3 with Apple's AppleTV as media centers, I'd say the AppleTV is hand's down more elegant (except for the crap remote). But the AppleTV doesn't do much more than act as an iPod when all is said and done. The PS3 is also happy to accept file formats that the AppleTV would puke on (mpeg video for example) and accepts external storage devices. And since the PS3 can play DVD's, it can actually reduce the number of components instead of adding one. My ideal vision of an AppleTV is a blu-ray playing DVR with media streaming, something Apple will never offer on two fronts. If my Tivo could mate with my PS3 and give birth to some sort of unholy offspring, that would perfect.



    Didn't say anything about Sony (or any other company) beating Apple in the consumer space or vice versa. Of course, outside of media centers and mp3 players, where else is Apple in the consumer electronics space? As far as I can see, no where. So how are they "beating everyone's else's ass" exactly? Just because you say it, doesn't make it true.



    Well super, my apologies.



    I wasn't replying to any specific point you made but rather to the tone of your entire comment. It seemed to me that you were trying to make one of two points: that other companies were doing better than Apple in the digital media space, or that you personally preferred other solutions. Maybe I was wrong.



    Saying that Apple has the best selling MP3 player doesn't really cover it, does it?



    Apple has, with the iPod, the best-selling MP3 player and the best-selling portable video player of any kind.



    Apple has, with iTunes, the best-selling digital media service (and the third best selling music service, physical or digital), the best-selling digital movie service, the most popular podcasting site, the best-selling music video service, the best-selling audio book service, the best-selling non-DRM music service, and on and on.



    When you simply list Apple, or iTunes, or the iPod against other competing services, it gives a false impression that, in digital media, there is any real competition. There just isn't.



    Not to be political (and I don't hate President Bush like some people seem to), whenever anyone used to say the US was "going it alone" in Iraq, the white house spokesman would trot out and list all of our "partners"...Ireland, Namibia, Kazhakstan, etc., etc., each of whom contributed three soldiers and a box of rice to the cause.



    When you list Apple, Sony, MS, etc...side by side it has the same effect. Apple is utterly dominating digital media in every measurable way right now. Of course that fact is irrelevant if you prefer Amazon unbox, or XBox live, etc.



    And that is where we come back to my original comment.



    I thought you were trying to build a case that Apple is not completely dominant in the digital media space. If you were, then that is simply wrong. If you were simply expressing a preference for other players then, cool.
  • Reply 79 of 123
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    I don't think greedy is the right word, ambitious is more like it. I believe SJ wants to free the musicians from the tyranny of the record companies by offering them realistic online distribution.



    By realistic I mean a place where they have a real chance of their music being discovered and sold, as opposed to just putting up their own obscure website. And even if they do put up their own website instead, even that has only been made possible by the spread of the iPod. Steve is doing a good thing for music.
  • Reply 80 of 123
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,401member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by caliminius View Post


    Regardless, I do consider the Mac Mini very overpriced for what it is.



    That, I agree with wholeheartedly!







    PS: Actually, I also agree with the use of the term "thief" vis-a-vis oil companies, but for a complicated set of reasons I won't go into here -- it has to do with cartels, oligopolies, and possibly strategic collusive behavior on the investment front.
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