So i take it nobody is going out for a Tex-Mex tonight then? Or have i just said something racist about both Texans and Mexicans?
People where i live are called Aussies, is that racist?
In the UK and Australia the word 'Jap' is a common name for someone from Japan and is not necessarily meant as a racist slur. In fact do you know how the word 'Jap' became part of the language of these countries? During the second world war the American government distrubuted to all the GI's stationed overseas a booklet explaining the culture of the countries they were staying in, among the notes of wisdom contained in these booklets they learned that Australians and Americans had a common enemy in the "Jap", that "Abos" roamed the Australian "waste lands". This from a booklet that actually included a personal message from the president Franklin Roosevelt. Once a word has entered a common language it is very difficult to remove, but it should not matter anyway, it is not the word that causes offence but the way in which it was said and the feelings behind it.
Words are just words and no word should be outlawed. Guns are far more likely to kill people and yet it is deemed the absolute right of all Americans to have the chance to own one, but it is okay to ban a word?. Its crazy that white people still get sacked for saying the N word and even i am not able to say the N word without being accused of being a racist and yet half of the black music that comes out of America is full of the N word and slapping hoes and popping caps, Its fine if a black dude says it but a not a white person!! Is that not the racist thing you ever heard in your life?
Have you got nothing else to get upset about? Turn on the news and try getting upset about something that matters.
Apparently 'Abo' and 'Jap' are just a-ok for you ... language being the way it is, with the implicit endorsement of a president no less ... but they aren't for the majority of posters here.
You can feel free to us whichever words you'd like but I don't have to put up with them nor do the other members. Since I've already made my stance on this issue clear, if you don't care to be considerate with your choice of words, on AI, please PM me and we'll see what we can do about filtering your posts so other users don't have to read them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
This is an odd thing to put in your argument. I don't know if you missed the distinction, but AI is a private organization, one that probably doesn't have any direct control of any government. Anyway, being a private forum, AI can decide what discussion topics are acceptable here.
The right (if you are an American citizen) to free speech as guaranteed by the 1st amendment to the U.S. Constitution does not apply when posting at this message board. AppleInsider is a privately owned and operated forum. Posters are allowed a great deal of flexibility in their posts, but be respectful of other members and the guidelines.
It is not much to ask that everyone use care and consideration when choosing their words.
Not taking the time to add the letters 'a' & 'n' after what is, at best, an offensive term is pure laziness or bile.
Any excuse that it's the first syllable of the nationality is ridiculous. I don't hear much about the Cans or the Engs or the Uns or the Mexs and so on.
Any further posts not related to the original story will be dealt with as I see fit.
Not that I care much about this topic but "anese" is 5 letters not just "an" and we do call the British...well Brits and Australians Aussies. But since it is considered offensive by the Japanese we should not use it.
Not that I really personally care what the Japanese think about racism given their rather abysmal track record past and present regarding racism. Individually the Japanese are often very polite and open. As a culture...well...not so much.
So why is "gaijin" less offensive than "jap" anyway? Not that it gets used much here but I rarely see "jap" either...I figured the poster was a brit or aussie since their English is a tad different from ours. But if you're going to ban one term, the other should be as well since it too is considered derrogatory by some/many of the folks that are called "gaijin".
As a black male I can tell you that I take offense to the N word and any word derived from it. There are a number of synonyms that could have been used and it was that person's choice to use the word and disregard how some might take it.
Toyin,
Is this in reference to the earlier comment about the "niggardly" controversy? If so, I can assure you that "niggardly" is in no way derived from a racial slur, and in fact predates the slur in question by many centuries:
Is this in reference to the earlier comment about the "niggardly" controversy? If so, I can assure you that "niggardly" is in no way derived from a racial slur, and in fact predates the slur in question by many centuries:
It seems wikipedia agrees with you. I had read previously that the the N word, was derived from Niggardly or Niggard. It is also phonetically much closer to the N word then the french negre or spanish negro.
So here lies the problem. I've been to college and graduate school (obviously not in history or language) and I was confused with origins and uses of the word. There are so many other synonyms he could have used, especially in a speech which is written and combed over with a fine tooth comb. The word was used on purpose to make a point.
It seems wikipedia agrees with you. I had read previously that the the N word, was derived from Niggardly or Niggard. It is also phonetically much closer to the N word then the french negre or spanish negro.
So here lies the problem. I've been to college and graduate school (obviously not in history or language) and I was confused with origins and uses of the word. There are so many other synonyms he could have used, especially in a speech which is written and combed over with a fine tooth comb. The word was used on purpose to make a point.
Don't trust Wikipedia as the final answer. Check the etymology of any dictionary.
But you have a point. Society obviously prefers to be offended by 'comment' instead of 'context' so we have no choice but to erase any offensive terms from out lexicon. If a word even reminds someone of an offensive word then we shouldn't use that word either. I suggest that we burn all the books that contain these offensive or offensive-by-proxy words if their spelling or sound seems offensively familiar.
You can feel free to us whichever words you'd like but I don't have to put up with them nor do the other members. Since I've already made my stance on this issue clear, if you don't care to be considerate with your choice of words, on AI, please PM me and we'll see what we can do about filtering your posts so other users don't have to read them.
Okay, so i make one post pointing out that the word 'Jap' is a word used widely in the UK and Australia and is not deeemd a racial slur but just a short name for japanese people. I actually do not think i use the word very much, not sure why just have grown up not saying it so much, but has nothing to do with my feelings on whether it is appropriate or not. I would be very upset if i thought you were implying i was a racist however when all i am doing is explaining that elswhere in the world it is an acceptable word.
Quote:
f you don't live in the US, I'm not sure how you can have a full understanding of what is and is not offensive, just like I wouldn't completely understand what is or is not offensive in Australia.
Oh Sorry, this is an American site? I was confused by the WWW thing in front of the sites address i was under the impression that the first W stood for World. Silly me i never realised. I have however spent alot of time in the US so do have an understanding of the problems there. I have also spent much of my life in other countries and cultures and have a good understanding of how many cultures differ.
Quote:
Black music? Black Dude? So Rap and Hip Hop are now Black music?
Actually yes! maybe that is another phrase that it widely used around the world but maybe not in America - Do you really not use the term Black Music? i.e. Music made by balck people, do you really think there is something racist about that phrase? becasue if you do then i think you have a problem.
As has been said previousley the Americans are happy to call British 'Brits', Irish 'Micks', Australians 'Aussies' and you eat Tex-Mex food. Now how many of these words have been used on this forum in the past and how many people have complained?? I am Irish and am used to being called a Paddy or a Mick and would never be offended by any word thrown at me as long as the person calling me the name was not using it as a racist slur. That is the difference, there are some people that are getting far too touchy about this and that is not good for society at large, If you really can be offencded by a word that was said in all innocence then i really believe you need to go to the doctors and have the stick removed from your behind!
This does appear to be an American problem (oops did i just say American? I meant the people from many background who live in the great northern land called the United States of America - does not roll of the tongue quite as easily but i guess is less offensive). The rest of the world (esp Europe) just get on with life now, there has been far too much energy spent on trying to ban words and it never worked anyway. In Europe people are trusted more to make the right decision on what is appropriate and it works, America is no longer the land of the free, the first ammendment does not exist anymore and there is greater freedom to be enjoyed in many other parts of the world than there is in America Maybe this is why there has been such an uproar on this forum about one little word that seems to have been used in a no offensive manner.
As i said i have never used the word 'Jap' on this forum and probably never will but if you are saying that posts using that word are not acceptable and will be deleted for being racists then you need to come on here now and state that the same goes for 'Brit' and 'Aussie'. Can you do that? Yes or No?
All this talk of offending someone got to me thinking that someone ay decide to phycially attack another. So I decided to hide my identity further while posting on these forums. I was going to set up a Jap but then I spoke with Mr. Jew who said that the chances of someone getting a chink in their armour over such a comment was pretty rare.
Seriously though, If we have to stop using all racial slurs regardless of intent then this forum is screwed...
Apple
• (North America) An American Indian (Native American) who is "red on the outside, white on the inside." Used primarily by other American Indians to indicate someone who has lost touch with their cultural identity. First used in the 1980s.[12]
It seems wikipedia agrees with you. I had read previously that the the N word, was derived from Niggardly or Niggard. It is also phonetically much closer to the N word then the french negre or spanish negro.
So here lies the problem. I've been to college and graduate school (obviously not in history or language) and I was confused with origins and uses of the word. There are so many other synonyms he could have used, especially in a speech which is written and combed over with a fine tooth comb. The word was used on purpose to make a point.
It's hard to say. Having read the Uncle Remus tales as a kid, I used to use the phrase "tar baby" to refer to a sticky mess that was difficult to get away from. It wasn't until some public figure was chastised for using the phrase that I learned that "tar baby" is also a racial slur.
My point is that we shouldn't be too quick to judge another's intentions. This thread is full of examples where a linguistic coincidence or a difference in national dialects can cause an innocuous phrase to appear offensive.
As has been said previousley the Americans are happy to call British 'Brits', Irish 'Micks', Australians 'Aussies' and you eat Tex-Mex food. Now how many of these words have been used on this forum in the past and how many people have complained?? I am Irish and am used to being called a Paddy or a Mick and would never be offended by any word thrown at me as long as the person calling me the name was not using it as a racist slur. That is the difference, there are some people that are getting far too touchy about this and that is not good for society at large, If you really can be offencded by a word that was said in all innocence then i really believe you need to go to the doctors and have the stick removed from your behind!
I'm not a fan of the overly sensitive political correctness that has been prevalent lately, but I have to disagree with you here. The examples you give ("Brits", "Micks", etc.) are ones where there is (in general) no perceived inequity. (I can't recall ever having encountered genuine anti-British or anti-Irish sentiments, but I've encountered a lot of hatred directed at other ethnic groups.) Some years ago, when the Irish in America faced widespread discrimination, terms like "Mick" or "Paddy" would have been much less benign, but they can now be used innocuously since there is (usually) no reason to suspect malice behind them.
I'm not a fan of the overly sensitive political correctness that has been prevalent lately, but I have to disagree with you here. The examples you give ("Brits", "Micks", etc.) are ones where there is (in general) no perceived inequity. (I can't recall ever having encountered genuine anti-British or anti-Irish sentiments, but I've encountered a lot of hatred directed at other ethnic groups.) Some years ago, when the Irish in America faced widespread discrimination, terms like "Mick" or "Paddy" would have been much less benign, but they can now be used innocuously since there is (usually) no reason to suspect malice behind them.
I guess the question then would be that now that the Japanese economy has been stagnating a long time do many folks (in the US and not Asia...given the news reports the Chinese are none too happy with them) actually feel much malice/hatred toward them since they aren't an economic/job threat anymore? No more than the Irish I would think.
Oh Sorry, this is an American site? I was confused by the WWW thing in front of the sites address i was under the impression that the first W stood for World. Silly me i never realised. I have however spent alot of time in the US so do have an understanding of the problems there. I have also spent much of my life in other countries and cultures and have a good understanding of how many cultures differ.
Read the sentence again, I think you misunderstood. Here's a clearer version:
If you don't live in the US, I'm not sure how you can have a full understanding of what is and is not offensivein the US, just like I wouldn't completely understand what is or is not offensive in Australia.
You believe being Irish, living in Australia, and 'spending a lot of time in he US' makes you somehow understand the subtleties of US culture and racism? That's pretty arrogant. I've been around the world and I'm amazed how those who haven't lived in the US can minimize our racial/cultural issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb
Actually yes! maybe that is another phrase that it widely used around the world but maybe not in America - Do you really not use the term Black Music? i.e. Music made by balck people, do you really think there is something racist about that phrase? becasue if you do then i think you have a problem.
Hip-hop and Rap music originated in the black community, but has crossed many racial/ethnic barriers for years. To call it 'black music' is incorrect and associates all the stigmata of that music on one race.
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb
If you really can be offencded by a word that was said in all innocence then i really believe you need to go to the doctors and have the stick removed from your behind!
I'm also tired of the overly PC crowd. I've had people say use 'African-american' instead of black. I remember in college some spelled woman, womyn because woman contained 'man'. Sorry, I couldn't follow. Draw your line in the sand and stick with it. If you feel that there's nothing wrong with using Black Dude and White Person in the same sentence then go with it. If you feel like calling me a nigga because Jay-Z said it, go with it. I won't get mad or offended by your comments. You're not that relevant. I'm merely pointing out that your language shows some ignorance and most recently disrespect.
If you feel that there's nothing wrong with using Black Dude and White Person in the same sentence then go with it.
And there you go! Perfect example number 1
When i wrote 'black dude' and 'white person' in the same sentence there was no thought to that, there was no hidden meaning and there was certainly no racism involved. I sometimes say person and i sometimes say dude (a rather annoying expression that has been ingrained into my language from no doubt watching too many US films and far too many episodes of South Park).
The fact that you saw racist undertones in that sentence says far more about you than it does about me.
You believe that it's only the Japanese government that continues to deny attrocities on civilians WW2? Most Japanese on the streets BELIEVE they were the victims of WW2 and are unjustly accused by Western powers. And you missed the point when I said J__ is a little word. If that word is racist, then Germans should be offended by Jerry, Americans should be offended by Yank, and the English should take offense with Pommie. Frenchie isn't safe. Jew isn't safe because it was (and continues to be) used with much hate. How far do we go with this?
To conclude, the main thrust of my post was that Japanese people need to address the reasons for hate directed toward them and not hide behind a veneer of being a victim, or by distancing themselves from the events of WW2 by time, or by dissasociation with the government of then or today.
WTF?!?!
I've lived in Japan for 10yrs and I don't know ANYONE that thinks they were victims of WW2 ! ! !
Sure, some of the govenrment is messed up, trying to change history books, but average people?!?!
*extreme editions will come soon offering higher picturee fidelity once Sony man up and use VC1 instead of mpeg2
Sony appears to be switching to H.264 AVC now for Blu-Ray (and are exchanging The Fifth Element for a version with a better transfer & AVC coding), and they have several camcorders that record AVCHD, which is based on the same codec. I really don't see the Sony using VC1 any more than Apple would. I don't know if Apple is using AVC for anything yet, they've been using a lower profile last I heard.
I've lived in Japan for 10yrs and I don't know ANYONE that thinks they were victims of WW2 ! ! !
Sure, some of the govenrment is messed up, trying to change history books, but average people?!?!
Where the hell did you get that information?
What planet do you live on??
I visited Japan for just three weeks, and encountered a number of people who viewed Japan as the victim of WW2. The a-bomb museum in Hiroshima explains how (I don't remember the exact quote) "a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor launched Japan into WW2" (whose surprise attack???), and goes at length to demonize the U.S. for the firebombing of Tokyo while failing to mention the atrocities committed by Japan. The attempt to rewrite textbooks is certainly not the work of some isolated few. If you've spent 10 years in Japan without encountering these (not uncommon) views, then you probably don't venture too far from the expat community.
I visited Japan for just three weeks, and encountered a number of people who viewed Japan as the victim of WW2. The a-bomb museum in Hiroshima explains how (I don't remember the exact quote) "a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor launched Japan into WW2" (whose surprise attack???), and goes at length to demonize the U.S. for the firebombing of Tokyo while failing to mention the atrocities committed by Japan. The attempt to rewrite textbooks is certainly not the work of some isolated few. If you've spent 10 years in Japan without encountering these (not uncommon) views, then you probably don't venture too far from the expat community.
I live in Tokyo... one of the bigest cities in the world...
"surprise attack" = US didn't know about it (for the most part)
No one here, except the extreme right wing, think they are victims
Everyone here, except the extreme right wing and some politicians, know war is wrong and never want to be involved in it again.
Japanese Law prohibits Japan from making war
I'm not saying that everyone thinks that way, but I AM sure not everyone thinks they are vicitms.
BTW, I said "I dont know anyone" ... that doesn't mean they aren't out there.
No one listends to the extreme right wing people driving around in their armored vans with loud speakers blaring their crap...
I've lived in Japan for 10yrs and I don't know ANYONE that thinks they were victims of WW2 ! ! !
Sure, some of the govenrment is messed up, trying to change history books, but average people?!?!
Where the hell did you get that information?
What planet do you live on??
Mkay...so the Japanese don't believe that WWII was forced upon them because the US embargoed them?
Tell me that Abe didn't reject the 1993 statement on "comfort women" and state there was no evidence of coercion earlier this year. Tell me that he didn't issue the lamest non-correction on record.
Tell me that the Japanese museums on WWII dont primarily show Japanese suffering during the air raids and the atomic bombings but are balanced exhibits on a war that THEY caused.
Tell me that the Japanese believe that the Nanjing massacre occured...oh excuse me, I believe that the Japanese prefer to call it the Nanjing "incident"...
Obviously the planet YOU live on is filtered through a Japanese perspective or you met very few people in the 10 years you lived there. The Japanese have systematically avoided responsibility for WWII...weak official apologies not withstanding...and if they deem themselves as NOT the responsible party then they can be nothing else but victims.
They say that the Germans are ashamed of WWII while the Japanese are embarassed (over losing). I believe that saying has more than a grain of truth. The Germans have the Auschwitz-Birkenau memorial. The Japanese the Yasukuni Shrine.
Not to belittle any of the atrocities commited by all sides during WWII, I wonder if America is embarrassed enough and ready to aplogise for inflicting the world with Paris Hilton.
Not to belittle any of the atrocities commited by all sides during WWII, I wonder if America is embarrassed enough and ready to aplogise for inflicting the world with Paris Hilton.
Heh...I can think of worse cultural atrocities from the US than Paris. Jerry Lewis comes to mind but since that was against the French we don't mind so much.
US fast food all over the place in London is another atrocity likely deemed worse than Paris Hilton although with English food I dunno...may be an improvement.
Besides, Paris is ersatz royalty...a pale imitation of the shennanigans real royals can get into. We copy from the Brits since we're just colonials putting on airs anyway. What can you expect...we're culturally barely above the Australians. Oh heh.
Vinea
PS for Lewis fans, I kid. He had some really funny movies and real talent for "low" humor. Paris is obviously worse but of nearly zero real impact so how bad can she be?
Comments
So i take it nobody is going out for a Tex-Mex tonight then? Or have i just said something racist about both Texans and Mexicans?
People where i live are called Aussies, is that racist?
In the UK and Australia the word 'Jap' is a common name for someone from Japan and is not necessarily meant as a racist slur. In fact do you know how the word 'Jap' became part of the language of these countries? During the second world war the American government distrubuted to all the GI's stationed overseas a booklet explaining the culture of the countries they were staying in, among the notes of wisdom contained in these booklets they learned that Australians and Americans had a common enemy in the "Jap", that "Abos" roamed the Australian "waste lands". This from a booklet that actually included a personal message from the president Franklin Roosevelt. Once a word has entered a common language it is very difficult to remove, but it should not matter anyway, it is not the word that causes offence but the way in which it was said and the feelings behind it.
Words are just words and no word should be outlawed. Guns are far more likely to kill people and yet it is deemed the absolute right of all Americans to have the chance to own one, but it is okay to ban a word?. Its crazy that white people still get sacked for saying the N word and even i am not able to say the N word without being accused of being a racist and yet half of the black music that comes out of America is full of the N word and slapping hoes and popping caps, Its fine if a black dude says it but a not a white person!! Is that not the racist thing you ever heard in your life?
Have you got nothing else to get upset about? Turn on the news and try getting upset about something that matters.
Apparently 'Abo' and 'Jap' are just a-ok for you ... language being the way it is, with the implicit endorsement of a president no less ... but they aren't for the majority of posters here.
You can feel free to us whichever words you'd like but I don't have to put up with them nor do the other members. Since I've already made my stance on this issue clear, if you don't care to be considerate with your choice of words, on AI, please PM me and we'll see what we can do about filtering your posts so other users don't have to read them.
This is an odd thing to put in your argument. I don't know if you missed the distinction, but AI is a private organization, one that probably doesn't have any direct control of any government. Anyway, being a private forum, AI can decide what discussion topics are acceptable here.
Exactly.
Point #1 in the Posting Guidelines is:
The right (if you are an American citizen) to free speech as guaranteed by the 1st amendment to the U.S. Constitution does not apply when posting at this message board. AppleInsider is a privately owned and operated forum. Posters are allowed a great deal of flexibility in their posts, but be respectful of other members and the guidelines.
Everyone should read the posting guidelines.
It is not much to ask that everyone use care and consideration when choosing their words.
Not taking the time to add the letters 'a' & 'n' after what is, at best, an offensive term is pure laziness or bile.
Any excuse that it's the first syllable of the nationality is ridiculous. I don't hear much about the Cans or the Engs or the Uns or the Mexs and so on.
Any further posts not related to the original story will be dealt with as I see fit.
Not that I care much about this topic but "anese" is 5 letters not just "an" and we do call the British...well Brits and Australians Aussies. But since it is considered offensive by the Japanese we should not use it.
Not that I really personally care what the Japanese think about racism given their rather abysmal track record past and present regarding racism. Individually the Japanese are often very polite and open. As a culture...well...not so much.
So why is "gaijin" less offensive than "jap" anyway? Not that it gets used much here but I rarely see "jap" either...I figured the poster was a brit or aussie since their English is a tad different from ours. But if you're going to ban one term, the other should be as well since it too is considered derrogatory by some/many of the folks that are called "gaijin".
Vinea
As a black male I can tell you that I take offense to the N word and any word derived from it. There are a number of synonyms that could have been used and it was that person's choice to use the word and disregard how some might take it.
Toyin,
Is this in reference to the earlier comment about the "niggardly" controversy? If so, I can assure you that "niggardly" is in no way derived from a racial slur, and in fact predates the slur in question by many centuries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niggardly
Toyin,
Is this in reference to the earlier comment about the "niggardly" controversy? If so, I can assure you that "niggardly" is in no way derived from a racial slur, and in fact predates the slur in question by many centuries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niggardly
It seems wikipedia agrees with you. I had read previously that the the N word, was derived from Niggardly or Niggard. It is also phonetically much closer to the N word then the french negre or spanish negro.
So here lies the problem. I've been to college and graduate school (obviously not in history or language) and I was confused with origins and uses of the word. There are so many other synonyms he could have used, especially in a speech which is written and combed over with a fine tooth comb. The word was used on purpose to make a point.
It seems wikipedia agrees with you. I had read previously that the the N word, was derived from Niggardly or Niggard. It is also phonetically much closer to the N word then the french negre or spanish negro.
So here lies the problem. I've been to college and graduate school (obviously not in history or language) and I was confused with origins and uses of the word. There are so many other synonyms he could have used, especially in a speech which is written and combed over with a fine tooth comb. The word was used on purpose to make a point.
Don't trust Wikipedia as the final answer. Check the etymology of any dictionary.
But you have a point. Society obviously prefers to be offended by 'comment' instead of 'context' so we have no choice but to erase any offensive terms from out lexicon. If a word even reminds someone of an offensive word then we shouldn't use that word either. I suggest that we burn all the books that contain these offensive or offensive-by-proxy words if their spelling or sound seems offensively familiar.
You can feel free to us whichever words you'd like but I don't have to put up with them nor do the other members. Since I've already made my stance on this issue clear, if you don't care to be considerate with your choice of words, on AI, please PM me and we'll see what we can do about filtering your posts so other users don't have to read them.
Okay, so i make one post pointing out that the word 'Jap' is a word used widely in the UK and Australia and is not deeemd a racial slur but just a short name for japanese people. I actually do not think i use the word very much, not sure why just have grown up not saying it so much, but has nothing to do with my feelings on whether it is appropriate or not. I would be very upset if i thought you were implying i was a racist however when all i am doing is explaining that elswhere in the world it is an acceptable word.
f you don't live in the US, I'm not sure how you can have a full understanding of what is and is not offensive, just like I wouldn't completely understand what is or is not offensive in Australia.
Oh Sorry, this is an American site? I was confused by the WWW thing in front of the sites address i was under the impression that the first W stood for World. Silly me i never realised. I have however spent alot of time in the US so do have an understanding of the problems there. I have also spent much of my life in other countries and cultures and have a good understanding of how many cultures differ.
Black music? Black Dude? So Rap and Hip Hop are now Black music?
Actually yes! maybe that is another phrase that it widely used around the world but maybe not in America - Do you really not use the term Black Music? i.e. Music made by balck people, do you really think there is something racist about that phrase? becasue if you do then i think you have a problem.
As has been said previousley the Americans are happy to call British 'Brits', Irish 'Micks', Australians 'Aussies' and you eat Tex-Mex food. Now how many of these words have been used on this forum in the past and how many people have complained?? I am Irish and am used to being called a Paddy or a Mick and would never be offended by any word thrown at me as long as the person calling me the name was not using it as a racist slur. That is the difference, there are some people that are getting far too touchy about this and that is not good for society at large, If you really can be offencded by a word that was said in all innocence then i really believe you need to go to the doctors and have the stick removed from your behind!
This does appear to be an American problem (oops did i just say American? I meant the people from many background who live in the great northern land called the United States of America - does not roll of the tongue quite as easily but i guess is less offensive). The rest of the world (esp Europe) just get on with life now, there has been far too much energy spent on trying to ban words and it never worked anyway. In Europe people are trusted more to make the right decision on what is appropriate and it works, America is no longer the land of the free, the first ammendment does not exist anymore and there is greater freedom to be enjoyed in many other parts of the world than there is in America Maybe this is why there has been such an uproar on this forum about one little word that seems to have been used in a no offensive manner.
As i said i have never used the word 'Jap' on this forum and probably never will but if you are saying that posts using that word are not acceptable and will be deleted for being racists then you need to come on here now and state that the same goes for 'Brit' and 'Aussie'. Can you do that? Yes or No?
Seriously though, If we have to stop using all racial slurs regardless of intent then this forum is screwed...
It seems wikipedia agrees with you. I had read previously that the the N word, was derived from Niggardly or Niggard. It is also phonetically much closer to the N word then the french negre or spanish negro.
So here lies the problem. I've been to college and graduate school (obviously not in history or language) and I was confused with origins and uses of the word. There are so many other synonyms he could have used, especially in a speech which is written and combed over with a fine tooth comb. The word was used on purpose to make a point.
It's hard to say. Having read the Uncle Remus tales as a kid, I used to use the phrase "tar baby" to refer to a sticky mess that was difficult to get away from. It wasn't until some public figure was chastised for using the phrase that I learned that "tar baby" is also a racial slur.
My point is that we shouldn't be too quick to judge another's intentions. This thread is full of examples where a linguistic coincidence or a difference in national dialects can cause an innocuous phrase to appear offensive.
As has been said previousley the Americans are happy to call British 'Brits', Irish 'Micks', Australians 'Aussies' and you eat Tex-Mex food. Now how many of these words have been used on this forum in the past and how many people have complained?? I am Irish and am used to being called a Paddy or a Mick and would never be offended by any word thrown at me as long as the person calling me the name was not using it as a racist slur. That is the difference, there are some people that are getting far too touchy about this and that is not good for society at large, If you really can be offencded by a word that was said in all innocence then i really believe you need to go to the doctors and have the stick removed from your behind!
I'm not a fan of the overly sensitive political correctness that has been prevalent lately, but I have to disagree with you here. The examples you give ("Brits", "Micks", etc.) are ones where there is (in general) no perceived inequity. (I can't recall ever having encountered genuine anti-British or anti-Irish sentiments, but I've encountered a lot of hatred directed at other ethnic groups.) Some years ago, when the Irish in America faced widespread discrimination, terms like "Mick" or "Paddy" would have been much less benign, but they can now be used innocuously since there is (usually) no reason to suspect malice behind them.
I'm not a fan of the overly sensitive political correctness that has been prevalent lately, but I have to disagree with you here. The examples you give ("Brits", "Micks", etc.) are ones where there is (in general) no perceived inequity. (I can't recall ever having encountered genuine anti-British or anti-Irish sentiments, but I've encountered a lot of hatred directed at other ethnic groups.) Some years ago, when the Irish in America faced widespread discrimination, terms like "Mick" or "Paddy" would have been much less benign, but they can now be used innocuously since there is (usually) no reason to suspect malice behind them.
I guess the question then would be that now that the Japanese economy has been stagnating a long time do many folks (in the US and not Asia...given the news reports the Chinese are none too happy with them) actually feel much malice/hatred toward them since they aren't an economic/job threat anymore? No more than the Irish I would think.
I would think "Mick" is still not a good thing?
Vinea
Oh Sorry, this is an American site? I was confused by the WWW thing in front of the sites address i was under the impression that the first W stood for World. Silly me i never realised. I have however spent alot of time in the US so do have an understanding of the problems there. I have also spent much of my life in other countries and cultures and have a good understanding of how many cultures differ.
Read the sentence again, I think you misunderstood. Here's a clearer version:
If you don't live in the US, I'm not sure how you can have a full understanding of what is and is not offensive in the US, just like I wouldn't completely understand what is or is not offensive in Australia.
You believe being Irish, living in Australia, and 'spending a lot of time in he US' makes you somehow understand the subtleties of US culture and racism? That's pretty arrogant. I've been around the world and I'm amazed how those who haven't lived in the US can minimize our racial/cultural issues.
Actually yes! maybe that is another phrase that it widely used around the world but maybe not in America - Do you really not use the term Black Music? i.e. Music made by balck people, do you really think there is something racist about that phrase? becasue if you do then i think you have a problem.
Hip-hop and Rap music originated in the black community, but has crossed many racial/ethnic barriers for years. To call it 'black music' is incorrect and associates all the stigmata of that music on one race.
If you really can be offencded by a word that was said in all innocence then i really believe you need to go to the doctors and have the stick removed from your behind!
I'm also tired of the overly PC crowd. I've had people say use 'African-american' instead of black. I remember in college some spelled woman, womyn because woman contained 'man'. Sorry, I couldn't follow. Draw your line in the sand and stick with it. If you feel that there's nothing wrong with using Black Dude and White Person in the same sentence then go with it. If you feel like calling me a nigga because Jay-Z said it, go with it. I won't get mad or offended by your comments. You're not that relevant. I'm merely pointing out that your language shows some ignorance and most recently disrespect.
If you feel that there's nothing wrong with using Black Dude and White Person in the same sentence then go with it.
And there you go! Perfect example number 1
When i wrote 'black dude' and 'white person' in the same sentence there was no thought to that, there was no hidden meaning and there was certainly no racism involved. I sometimes say person and i sometimes say dude (a rather annoying expression that has been ingrained into my language from no doubt watching too many US films and far too many episodes of South Park).
The fact that you saw racist undertones in that sentence says far more about you than it does about me.
You believe that it's only the Japanese government that continues to deny attrocities on civilians WW2? Most Japanese on the streets BELIEVE they were the victims of WW2 and are unjustly accused by Western powers. And you missed the point when I said J__ is a little word. If that word is racist, then Germans should be offended by Jerry, Americans should be offended by Yank, and the English should take offense with Pommie. Frenchie isn't safe. Jew isn't safe because it was (and continues to be) used with much hate. How far do we go with this?
To conclude, the main thrust of my post was that Japanese people need to address the reasons for hate directed toward them and not hide behind a veneer of being a victim, or by distancing themselves from the events of WW2 by time, or by dissasociation with the government of then or today.
WTF?!?!
I've lived in Japan for 10yrs and I don't know ANYONE that thinks they were victims of WW2 ! ! !
Sure, some of the govenrment is messed up, trying to change history books, but average people?!?!
Where the hell did you get that information?
What planet do you live on??
*extreme editions will come soon offering higher picturee fidelity once Sony man up and use VC1 instead of mpeg2
Sony appears to be switching to H.264 AVC now for Blu-Ray (and are exchanging The Fifth Element for a version with a better transfer & AVC coding), and they have several camcorders that record AVCHD, which is based on the same codec. I really don't see the Sony using VC1 any more than Apple would. I don't know if Apple is using AVC for anything yet, they've been using a lower profile last I heard.
WTF?!?!
I've lived in Japan for 10yrs and I don't know ANYONE that thinks they were victims of WW2 ! ! !
Sure, some of the govenrment is messed up, trying to change history books, but average people?!?!
Where the hell did you get that information?
What planet do you live on??
I visited Japan for just three weeks, and encountered a number of people who viewed Japan as the victim of WW2. The a-bomb museum in Hiroshima explains how (I don't remember the exact quote) "a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor launched Japan into WW2" (whose surprise attack???), and goes at length to demonize the U.S. for the firebombing of Tokyo while failing to mention the atrocities committed by Japan. The attempt to rewrite textbooks is certainly not the work of some isolated few. If you've spent 10 years in Japan without encountering these (not uncommon) views, then you probably don't venture too far from the expat community.
I visited Japan for just three weeks, and encountered a number of people who viewed Japan as the victim of WW2. The a-bomb museum in Hiroshima explains how (I don't remember the exact quote) "a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor launched Japan into WW2" (whose surprise attack???), and goes at length to demonize the U.S. for the firebombing of Tokyo while failing to mention the atrocities committed by Japan. The attempt to rewrite textbooks is certainly not the work of some isolated few. If you've spent 10 years in Japan without encountering these (not uncommon) views, then you probably don't venture too far from the expat community.
I live in Tokyo... one of the bigest cities in the world...
"surprise attack" = US didn't know about it (for the most part)
- Japanese Law prohibits Japan from making war
I'm not saying that everyone thinks that way, but I AM sure not everyone thinks they are vicitms.BTW, I said "I dont know anyone" ... that doesn't mean they aren't out there.
No one listends to the extreme right wing people driving around in their armored vans with loud speakers blaring their crap...
WTF?!?!
I've lived in Japan for 10yrs and I don't know ANYONE that thinks they were victims of WW2 ! ! !
Sure, some of the govenrment is messed up, trying to change history books, but average people?!?!
Where the hell did you get that information?
What planet do you live on??
Mkay...so the Japanese don't believe that WWII was forced upon them because the US embargoed them?
Tell me that Abe didn't reject the 1993 statement on "comfort women" and state there was no evidence of coercion earlier this year. Tell me that he didn't issue the lamest non-correction on record.
Tell me that the Japanese museums on WWII dont primarily show Japanese suffering during the air raids and the atomic bombings but are balanced exhibits on a war that THEY caused.
Tell me that the Japanese believe that the Nanjing massacre occured...oh excuse me, I believe that the Japanese prefer to call it the Nanjing "incident"...
Obviously the planet YOU live on is filtered through a Japanese perspective or you met very few people in the 10 years you lived there. The Japanese have systematically avoided responsibility for WWII...weak official apologies not withstanding...and if they deem themselves as NOT the responsible party then they can be nothing else but victims.
They say that the Germans are ashamed of WWII while the Japanese are embarassed (over losing). I believe that saying has more than a grain of truth. The Germans have the Auschwitz-Birkenau memorial. The Japanese the Yasukuni Shrine.
Vinea
Not to belittle any of the atrocities commited by all sides during WWII, I wonder if America is embarrassed enough and ready to aplogise for inflicting the world with Paris Hilton.
Well this is fun.
Not to belittle any of the atrocities commited by all sides during WWII, I wonder if America is embarrassed enough and ready to aplogise for inflicting the world with Paris Hilton.
Heh...I can think of worse cultural atrocities from the US than Paris. Jerry Lewis comes to mind but since that was against the French we don't mind so much.
US fast food all over the place in London is another atrocity likely deemed worse than Paris Hilton although with English food I dunno...may be an improvement.
Besides, Paris is ersatz royalty...a pale imitation of the shennanigans real royals can get into. We copy from the Brits since we're just colonials putting on airs anyway. What can you expect...we're culturally barely above the Australians. Oh heh.
Vinea
PS for Lewis fans, I kid. He had some really funny movies and real talent for "low" humor. Paris is obviously worse but of nearly zero real impact so how bad can she be?
Never be rude to an Arab,
An Israeli or Saudi or Jew.
Never be rude to an Irishman
No matter what you do.
Never pull fun at a nigger,
A spic or a wop or a kraut,
And never poke fun at a [explosion]