I'm not suggesting the thread is closed. Stop whining.
But how MANY people will actually buy one? That's the question. "Many" people don't want one at all. You want one. A bunch of computer geeks like us might want one. That's not gonna cut it, champ.
Point? Then keep what you have. Or buy a Mac Pro when it's time. A Mid pro tower might "work fine" but that doesn't mean Apple should make one.
According to whom?
See above.
My bias?. WTF? Your assertion that a mid pro would cut into mini sales is absurd. It's a totally different market. It's a totally different price segment. It would cut into iMac and Pro sales...period. Just because "some people" run Logic on a mini doesn't mean they would choose a mid pro over an iMac. You'd get the people that can't afford a mac pro and those nerds who think they need PCI slots.
No offense, but it's clear you should never go into marketing.
Ding ding ding! And let us not forget, a mid pro for $1200 plus a nice display is going to end up being a $2200 machine anyway with basically the same specs as the iMac....but more expandable. Dumb idea.
Well, I don't know that it's moot (correct word, btw). My problem is this statement:
I'm not sure I see his point here. So what if it sucks...it's upgradable? does he think he'll get a better card with a system that's half the price? Isn't the whole point to swap out the card anyway?
for ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI) [Add $249] so you are paying $149 for a 7300 GT + $249 = $398 for a ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB with a EFI rom and the ram is rip off.
I'm not suggesting the thread is closed. Stop whining.
Then why are you "begging" us all to stop discussing a mini-tower? You say you "do not understand the demand for this product." Fine, I believe many of us believe there is a demand, and you are welcome to ignore this thread.
Quote:
But how MANY people will actually buy one? That's the question. "Many" people don't want one at all. You want one. A bunch of computer geeks like us might want one. That's not gonna cut it, champ.
Where are YOU getting your marketing information? I believe the burden of proof is on you to show there is insufficient demand for a Mac mini-tower.
The rest of us only need to look at what sells from other computer makers. What I see at Best Buy is rows of towers, in all sizes and styles. Few Xeon class workstations, but lots of towers with desktop components.
To get a Mac tower in this popular price range, I must wait 3 or 4 years and buy a used Mac Pro.
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Your assertion that a mid pro would cut into mini sales is absurd. It's a totally different market. It's a totally different price segment. It would cut into iMac and Pro sales...period.
You think it's absurd? Maybe you think folks should simply buy an iMac and dispose of their current LCD display? Do you have suggestions on what to do with the unused LCD display? Sell it on eBay? Donate it to charity? Make a movie of it hitting the pavement after falling from a 10 story building? Seems like a lot of extra effort just to have the dubious pleasure of buying an iMac.
If those of us with a good LCD display do not buy an iMac, we must choose between a Mac Pro and a Mac Mini. Guess which one we would pick most of the time? It's no contest, when money is a consideration.
Now, if there were a low-end tower, say $800 to $1800 price range, this is what many would buy. So, yes. Such a low-end tower would take sales from the Mac Mini, under present circumstances.
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No offense, but it's clear you should never go into marketing.
But how MANY people will actually buy one? That's the question. "Many" people don't want one at all. You want one. A bunch of computer geeks like us might want one. That's not gonna cut it, champ.
For years there has been a large segment of users that don't want the Mac Pro (PowerMac) but would like a good middle of the road Mac. Obviously many of us don't believe Apple makes one. So who would buy one? Many switchers for one don't want to be locked down to an AIO Mac, nor do they want the enormity of the Mac Pro. That's not even considering the Mac users. Apple is on the rise and gaining in popularity with users at an astronomical rate. They need to offer more than a choice of an AIO or a workstation for semi serious users. The iMac just isn't a serious computer to most, and the Mac Pro is overkill for a first time Mac buyer. And like I said earlier; that's not even considering the current Mac users.
For years there has been a large segment of users that don't want the Mac Pro (PowerMac) but would like a good middle of the road Mac. Obviously many of us don't believe Apple makes one. So who would buy one? Many switchers for one don't want to be locked down to an AIO Mac, nor do they want the enormity of the Mac Pro. That's not even considering the Mac users. Apple is on the rise and gaining in popularity with users at an astronomical rate. They need to offer more than a choice of an AIO or a workstation for semi serious users. The iMac just isn't a serious computer to most, and the Mac Pro is overkill for a first time Mac buyer. And like I said earlier; that's not even considering the current Mac users.
The G4 MINI cost less then intel one and had a video card with it's own ram and is better at games then what intel on board chips at that time where.
Why can't apple at least put a TurboCache / hypermemory card in the mini?
Then why are you "begging" us all to stop discussing a mini-tower? You say you "do not understand the demand for this product." Fine, I believe many of us believe there is a demand, and you are welcome to ignore this thread.
Because it's the same thing over and over. Yet, no one points out the obvious...it would be a dumb move for Apple and that it's likely not going to happen. While I don't have to post in every thread, there is a new one weekly. There are two right NOW. If nothing else it clutters up the board.
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Where are YOU getting your marketing information? I believe the burden of proof is on you to show there is insufficient demand for a Mac mini-tower.
Uh...how about the fact that Apple hasn't made one despite about 5 years of whining? That's proof right there. And the burden of proof is on you. As the anti-Iraq war people love to say, one can't prove a negative. It's even more true in this case, because the product doesn't exist. Do you think that's how marketing works? do you think that if someone has an idea for a product, he goes to his superiors or colleagues and instead of showing demand, he tells them to prove that there ISN'T demand?
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The rest of us only need to look at what sells from other computer makers. What I see at Best Buy is rows of towers, in all sizes and styles. Few Xeon class workstations, but lots of towers with desktop components.
Which is exactly what Apple tries to avoid....being just like all the other manufacturers. And gee...look who's sales are kicking ass while others are tanking.
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To get a Mac tower in this popular price range, I must wait 3 or 4 years and buy a used Mac Pro.
Then you need to make more money or buy the machine in your price range. Or you could consider saving for another 6 months to a year to come up with the extra $1,000.
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You think it's absurd? Maybe you think folks should simply buy an iMac and dispose of their current LCD display?
That's why there is a Mac pro.
Quote:
Do you have suggestions on what to do with the unused LCD display?
Buy a Mac pro
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Sell it on eBay? Donate it to charity?
But a Mac pro. Buy a Mac pro. Oh, and if not...buy and iMac and...I DON'T CARE WHAT THEY DO WITH IT.
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Make a movie of it hitting the pavement after falling from a 10 story building? Seems like a lot of extra effort just to have the dubious pleasure of buying an iMac.
"dubious pleasure?" Do you even know what that word means?
Quote:
If those of us with a good LCD display do not buy an iMac, we must choose between a Mac Pro and a Mac Mini. Guess which one we would pick most of the time? It's no contest, when money is a consideration.
You get what you pay for. Anyone that would even consider a mini doesn't really need a pro anyway.
Quote:
Now, if there were a low-end tower, say $800 to $1800 price range, this is what many would buy. So, yes. Such a low-end tower would take sales from the Mac Mini, under present circumstances.
First, it's not going to cost $800. The non-expandable mini is up to $700+ already. Now you want to add PCI slots, desktop components, a better graphics option, more RAM, more bays, etc. You also don't want to canabilize mini sales, as you point out. So you're looking at $1200-$1800.
Now, you're competing against the iMac and Mac Pro. The machine will likely hurt Mac Pro sales as it costs $1000 less. But the real issue is the price range....it's going to be up against the iMac. A consumer is going to look at both and scratch is head. The iMac will cost the same, include a great display, and lack only the PCI slots and bays. It's a no brainer...anyone except a very small target market will choose the iMac. And that small target market will also hurt the flagship Mac Pro.
So tell me again how it's a good move. The problem with Future Hardware and, well, most people in general... is they can't separate what they personally want from what would be likely or good business. It's the same with the HD-DVD discussion. The HD DVD zealots are grinning ear to ear and dancing in the streets over Paramount's recent HD-DVD exclusive announcement. But it's a stupid business decision because that company picked the format that's losing 3 to 1 because they basically got bought off to do so. Not quite the same situation, but a a good example.
Anyone that would even consider a mini doesn't really need a pro anyway.
I think this is the first sensible thing you said in your entire reply, to let's start here. It's true. We must consider the Mac Mini if we do not need a Mac Pro. However, this does not mean we are satisfied with the Mac Mini for our application. I for one will would prefer a lower cost tower. There is not such a Mac, so someday I will buy a Mac Pro that is used and within my budget. This purchase will not contribute to Apple's bottom line at all.
I find it amusing what you suggest I do about the situation.
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Then you need to make more money or buy the machine in your price range. Or you could consider saving for another 6 months to a year to come up with the extra $1,000.
Make more money? Very helpful advice. Please talk to my boss. Next you say to buy a machine in my price range. Yes! That's it -- as soon as Apple sells a Mac Mini Tower. Thanks for the show of support.
Now here is a real jewel. I ask for proof for your assertion that there is little or no demand for a lower-price tower. So, what do you reply?
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Uh...how about the fact that Apple hasn't made one despite about 5 years of whining? That's proof right there. . .
Of course! Why didn't I see the obvious? The fact that Apple hasn't made a lower-priced tower is proof that there is no demand? Come on. Give us credit for having the brains to see the illogic of your statement.
I'd keep going, but this is grinding me down. If you don't like the thread, don't read it. Stick to the BD vs. HD-DVD discussion where you make a heck of a lot more sense. Sorry if I've been offensive. Really sorry, but damn it, you got me all worked up.
You get what you pay for. Anyone that would even consider a mini doesn't really need a pro anyway.
This has the logical error of assuming that the only choice in between a Mini and a Pro. This thread assumes this is not the case. But more to the point, this quote highlights the problem. People who consider the Mini but find it lacking have three choices.
The Mac Pro - as you said, they don't need it.
The iMac - not suitable for many people
A non-Mac
Take me for example. I don't work on my home computer. I surf, I read email, and I edit photos (strictly hobbyist stuff) I would also like to run Windows under Fusion or Parallels for those pesky sites that don't work on anything but Explorer, and for running some Windows-only software such as CombineZ.
I need more disk space than fits in the mini, and I want more memory. The iMac is almost a good fit, except for the fact that the screen does not fit my needs. I could go into details as to why the screen is a poor fit for me, but please just take my word on that.
The closest fit for me is the Mini, but I want a far bigger disk. Plugging an external disk via Firewire is (to me) an ugly abomination. From a marketing PoV this makes me spend less money on Apple products. In 9 years of being a Mac user, I'm only on my 2nd Mac. I keep waiting for Apple to release something that is a good fit for me, and I postpone purchase.
My first Mac was a B&W G3 tower. I wanted to buy an iMac, but that had only a 15" screen, and I wanted 17", and later a 19".
My second Mac was a G4 MDD tower. Again I wanted an iMac, but at the time, that also had only a 17" screen, while my monitor was at 19".
Now it's time to upgrade again. The iMac still has the wrong screen, but the current tower is incredibly overkill for my needs. A PC that sells for $800 in the US would cover my performance needs, but at Apple you can't get that computer even for $1200. You need to spring for the cheapest Mac Pro, and today, I'm not going to buy something that big.
If Apple had made the computers that fit my needs, I'd upgrade every three years, rather than five.
I think this is the first sensible thing you said in your entire reply, to let's start here. It's true. We must consider the Mac Mini if we do not need a Mac Pro. However, this does not mean we are satisfied with the Mac Mini for our application. I for one will would prefer a lower cost tower. There is not such a Mac, so someday I will buy a Mac Pro that is used and within my budget. This purchase will not contribute to Apple's bottom line at all.
Strictly speaking, this is not true. Buying used Mac Pros, means that there is a resale value in Mac Pro, which makes them more attractive to buyers of new Mac Pros.
That's the same reasoning that makes companies care about the price of their stocks in the secondary market.
Strictly speaking, this is not true. Buying used Mac Pros, means that there is a resale value in Mac Pro, which makes them more attractive to buyers of new Mac Pros.
That's the same reasoning that makes companies care about the price of their stocks in the secondary market.
While I agree with what you say, it would still do Apple more good to sell a Mac Mini Tower and have the added revenue.
Keeping prices of used Macs high, however, could have some impact, if Mac Pro users would be inclined to upgrade hardware more frequently. Of the two, a Mini Tower would help Apple's bottom line the most, IMHO.
While I agree with what you say, it would still do Apple more good to sell a Mac Mini Tower and have the added revenue.
Keeping prices of used Macs high, however, could have some impact, if Mac Pro users would be inclined to upgrade hardware more frequently. Of the two, a Mini Tower would help Apple's bottom line the most, IMHO.
I agree, even though I would much rather have a better Mini - I don't need the expandability, just lots of disk space and lots of memory.
I agree, even though I would much rather have a better Mini - I don't need the expandability, just lots of disk space and lots of memory.
I wasn't suggesting that Apple discontinue the Mini, if that is what you may be thinking. A mini tower could not sell as low in price as a mini, and it would not hurt to have the top mini and lowest tower overlap slightly, in price, IMHO.
Minitower - 2GHz Core 2 Duo, GMA X3100 on motherboard, 3.5" optical drive bay, 2 internal 3.5" bays, four memory slots, 2 PCI Express slots, one of which full width.
I think that's about as much configuration as necessary. You don't go so much faster than that C2Q with dualcores that it'd be a good idea to buy a high end dualcore. The three graphics options cover desktop work, occasional accelerated work/low resolution gaming, and modeling/hardcore accelerated stuff/high resolution gaming very well. The integrated graphics cost nickels, really drop the base model production cost and "starting from" cost by avoiding the inclusion of an extra card, and are silent whereas the cards will have active cooling.
If you knuckleheads spend half the time making a hack to get OS X running on commodity boxes as you do dreaming about this (which won't happen), that hack would be mature by now, supported on dozens of chipsets.
And that's really the crux of he matter: you don't have enough money to buy a mac pro or an imac. So make the hack already.
If you knuckleheads spend half the time making a hack to get OS X running on commodity boxes as you do dreaming about this (which won't happen), that hack would be mature by now, supported on dozens of chipsets.
And that's really the crux of he matter: you don't have enough money to buy a mac pro or an imac. So make the hack already.
People like you really sour the experience of owning a Mac. You also make us all look some kind of wacky extremist cult instead of the enlightened computer users Mac owners should be.
If you knuckleheads spend half the time making a hack to get OS X running on commodity boxes as you do dreaming about this (which won't happen), that hack would be mature by now, supported on dozens of chipsets.
And that's really the crux of he matter: you don't have enough money to buy a mac pro or an imac. So make the hack already.
I don't need to "make the hack". If you look hard enough, you can find it on the Internet. If I download a hacked Mac OS X and also buy a shrink-wrapped Mac OS X, I don't think Apple could make a case against me. I don't think any EULA has ever been upheld by a court.
But never mind all that. We don't want a commodity box. We want an Apple box.
I don't need to "make the hack". If you look hard enough, you can find it on the Internet. If I download a hacked Mac OS X and also buy a shrink-wrapped Mac OS X, I don't think Apple could make a case against me. I don't think any EULA has ever been upheld by a court.
But never mind all that. We don't want a commodity box. We want an Apple box.
Perhaps, but you want commodity pricing. Commodity pricing can only come with commodity design.
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Originally Posted by BenRoethig
People like you really sour the experience of owning a Mac. You also make us all look some kind of wacky extremist cult instead of the enlightened computer users Mac owners should be.
Whatever. When Linus T wanted unix on his PC, he started working on Linux: great story. Linux was a cult for a while, but now it's not at all. It has changed the world, in fact. If you want something, you're going to do well for yourself if you make it happen. The worst-case scenario is that Apple releases the machine you want before you can finish the project, and you've found that you've learned a lot in the process.
Getting back to the point: so the hack is already out there. Now, you have the opportunity to build the enclosure that you want. Snag a micro ATX board and a riser card or two and start working. Based on the 3D mockups here, there's no shortage of ideas. The company XtremeMac started like this, and as far as I can tell, Axiotron/OWC is still selling the only mac tablet.
While this doesn't really interest me, it seems like it would be a fun project for someone (or some group of folks), and having spent the past few years designing electronic products, enclosures, and prototypes, I would be glad to offer advice to any adventurous souls.
Comments
I'm not suggesting the thread is closed. Stop whining.
But how MANY people will actually buy one? That's the question. "Many" people don't want one at all. You want one. A bunch of computer geeks like us might want one. That's not gonna cut it, champ.
Point? Then keep what you have. Or buy a Mac Pro when it's time. A Mid pro tower might "work fine" but that doesn't mean Apple should make one.
According to whom?
See above.
My bias?. WTF? Your assertion that a mid pro would cut into mini sales is absurd. It's a totally different market. It's a totally different price segment. It would cut into iMac and Pro sales...period. Just because "some people" run Logic on a mini doesn't mean they would choose a mid pro over an iMac. You'd get the people that can't afford a mac pro and those nerds who think they need PCI slots.
No offense, but it's clear you should never go into marketing.
Ding ding ding! And let us not forget, a mid pro for $1200 plus a nice display is going to end up being a $2200 machine anyway with basically the same specs as the iMac....but more expandable. Dumb idea.
Well, I don't know that it's moot (correct word, btw). My problem is this statement:
I'm not sure I see his point here. So what if it sucks...it's upgradable? does he think he'll get a better card with a system that's half the price? Isn't the whole point to swap out the card anyway?
for ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI) [Add $249] so you are paying $149 for a 7300 GT + $249 = $398 for a ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB with a EFI rom and the ram is rip off.
$299 for 1 gb of ram
OWC price $92
http://eshop.macsales.com/Search/Sea...TFBDIMM&sort=a
I'm not suggesting the thread is closed. Stop whining.
Then why are you "begging" us all to stop discussing a mini-tower? You say you "do not understand the demand for this product." Fine, I believe many of us believe there is a demand, and you are welcome to ignore this thread.
But how MANY people will actually buy one? That's the question. "Many" people don't want one at all. You want one. A bunch of computer geeks like us might want one. That's not gonna cut it, champ.
Where are YOU getting your marketing information? I believe the burden of proof is on you to show there is insufficient demand for a Mac mini-tower.
The rest of us only need to look at what sells from other computer makers. What I see at Best Buy is rows of towers, in all sizes and styles. Few Xeon class workstations, but lots of towers with desktop components.
To get a Mac tower in this popular price range, I must wait 3 or 4 years and buy a used Mac Pro.
Your assertion that a mid pro would cut into mini sales is absurd. It's a totally different market. It's a totally different price segment. It would cut into iMac and Pro sales...period.
You think it's absurd? Maybe you think folks should simply buy an iMac and dispose of their current LCD display? Do you have suggestions on what to do with the unused LCD display? Sell it on eBay? Donate it to charity? Make a movie of it hitting the pavement after falling from a 10 story building? Seems like a lot of extra effort just to have the dubious pleasure of buying an iMac.
If those of us with a good LCD display do not buy an iMac, we must choose between a Mac Pro and a Mac Mini. Guess which one we would pick most of the time? It's no contest, when money is a consideration.
Now, if there were a low-end tower, say $800 to $1800 price range, this is what many would buy. So, yes. Such a low-end tower would take sales from the Mac Mini, under present circumstances.
No offense, but it's clear you should never go into marketing.
But how MANY people will actually buy one? That's the question. "Many" people don't want one at all.
Why don't you tell us just how many people don't want one versus those that do want one since you seem to be in the know.
But how MANY people will actually buy one? That's the question. "Many" people don't want one at all. You want one. A bunch of computer geeks like us might want one. That's not gonna cut it, champ.
For years there has been a large segment of users that don't want the Mac Pro (PowerMac) but would like a good middle of the road Mac. Obviously many of us don't believe Apple makes one. So who would buy one? Many switchers for one don't want to be locked down to an AIO Mac, nor do they want the enormity of the Mac Pro. That's not even considering the Mac users. Apple is on the rise and gaining in popularity with users at an astronomical rate. They need to offer more than a choice of an AIO or a workstation for semi serious users. The iMac just isn't a serious computer to most, and the Mac Pro is overkill for a first time Mac buyer. And like I said earlier; that's not even considering the current Mac users.
For years there has been a large segment of users that don't want the Mac Pro (PowerMac) but would like a good middle of the road Mac. Obviously many of us don't believe Apple makes one. So who would buy one? Many switchers for one don't want to be locked down to an AIO Mac, nor do they want the enormity of the Mac Pro. That's not even considering the Mac users. Apple is on the rise and gaining in popularity with users at an astronomical rate. They need to offer more than a choice of an AIO or a workstation for semi serious users. The iMac just isn't a serious computer to most, and the Mac Pro is overkill for a first time Mac buyer. And like I said earlier; that's not even considering the current Mac users.
The G4 MINI cost less then intel one and had a video card with it's own ram and is better at games then what intel on board chips at that time where.
Why can't apple at least put a TurboCache / hypermemory card in the mini?
Then why are you "begging" us all to stop discussing a mini-tower? You say you "do not understand the demand for this product." Fine, I believe many of us believe there is a demand, and you are welcome to ignore this thread.
Because it's the same thing over and over. Yet, no one points out the obvious...it would be a dumb move for Apple and that it's likely not going to happen. While I don't have to post in every thread, there is a new one weekly. There are two right NOW. If nothing else it clutters up the board.
Where are YOU getting your marketing information? I believe the burden of proof is on you to show there is insufficient demand for a Mac mini-tower.
Uh...how about the fact that Apple hasn't made one despite about 5 years of whining? That's proof right there. And the burden of proof is on you. As the anti-Iraq war people love to say, one can't prove a negative. It's even more true in this case, because the product doesn't exist. Do you think that's how marketing works? do you think that if someone has an idea for a product, he goes to his superiors or colleagues and instead of showing demand, he tells them to prove that there ISN'T demand?
The rest of us only need to look at what sells from other computer makers. What I see at Best Buy is rows of towers, in all sizes and styles. Few Xeon class workstations, but lots of towers with desktop components.
Which is exactly what Apple tries to avoid....being just like all the other manufacturers. And gee...look who's sales are kicking ass while others are tanking.
To get a Mac tower in this popular price range, I must wait 3 or 4 years and buy a used Mac Pro.
Then you need to make more money or buy the machine in your price range. Or you could consider saving for another 6 months to a year to come up with the extra $1,000.
You think it's absurd? Maybe you think folks should simply buy an iMac and dispose of their current LCD display?
That's why there is a Mac pro.
Do you have suggestions on what to do with the unused LCD display?
Buy a Mac pro
Sell it on eBay? Donate it to charity?
But a Mac pro. Buy a Mac pro. Oh, and if not...buy and iMac and...I DON'T CARE WHAT THEY DO WITH IT.
Make a movie of it hitting the pavement after falling from a 10 story building? Seems like a lot of extra effort just to have the dubious pleasure of buying an iMac.
"dubious pleasure?" Do you even know what that word means?
If those of us with a good LCD display do not buy an iMac, we must choose between a Mac Pro and a Mac Mini. Guess which one we would pick most of the time? It's no contest, when money is a consideration.
You get what you pay for. Anyone that would even consider a mini doesn't really need a pro anyway.
Now, if there were a low-end tower, say $800 to $1800 price range, this is what many would buy. So, yes. Such a low-end tower would take sales from the Mac Mini, under present circumstances.
First, it's not going to cost $800. The non-expandable mini is up to $700+ already. Now you want to add PCI slots, desktop components, a better graphics option, more RAM, more bays, etc. You also don't want to canabilize mini sales, as you point out. So you're looking at $1200-$1800.
Now, you're competing against the iMac and Mac Pro. The machine will likely hurt Mac Pro sales as it costs $1000 less. But the real issue is the price range....it's going to be up against the iMac. A consumer is going to look at both and scratch is head. The iMac will cost the same, include a great display, and lack only the PCI slots and bays. It's a no brainer...anyone except a very small target market will choose the iMac. And that small target market will also hurt the flagship Mac Pro.
So tell me again how it's a good move. The problem with Future Hardware and, well, most people in general... is they can't separate what they personally want from what would be likely or good business. It's the same with the HD-DVD discussion. The HD DVD zealots are grinning ear to ear and dancing in the streets over Paramount's recent HD-DVD exclusive announcement. But it's a stupid business decision because that company picked the format that's losing 3 to 1 because they basically got bought off to do so. Not quite the same situation, but a a good example.
Anyone that would even consider a mini doesn't really need a pro anyway.
I think this is the first sensible thing you said in your entire reply, to let's start here. It's true. We must consider the Mac Mini if we do not need a Mac Pro. However, this does not mean we are satisfied with the Mac Mini for our application. I for one will would prefer a lower cost tower. There is not such a Mac, so someday I will buy a Mac Pro that is used and within my budget. This purchase will not contribute to Apple's bottom line at all.
I find it amusing what you suggest I do about the situation.
Then you need to make more money or buy the machine in your price range. Or you could consider saving for another 6 months to a year to come up with the extra $1,000.
Make more money? Very helpful advice. Please talk to my boss. Next you say to buy a machine in my price range. Yes! That's it -- as soon as Apple sells a Mac Mini Tower. Thanks for the show of support.
Now here is a real jewel. I ask for proof for your assertion that there is little or no demand for a lower-price tower. So, what do you reply?
Uh...how about the fact that Apple hasn't made one despite about 5 years of whining? That's proof right there. . .
Of course! Why didn't I see the obvious? The fact that Apple hasn't made a lower-priced tower is proof that there is no demand? Come on. Give us credit for having the brains to see the illogic of your statement.
I'd keep going, but this is grinding me down. If you don't like the thread, don't read it. Stick to the BD vs. HD-DVD discussion where you make a heck of a lot more sense. Sorry if I've been offensive. Really sorry, but damn it, you got me all worked up.
You get what you pay for. Anyone that would even consider a mini doesn't really need a pro anyway.
This has the logical error of assuming that the only choice in between a Mini and a Pro. This thread assumes this is not the case. But more to the point, this quote highlights the problem. People who consider the Mini but find it lacking have three choices.
- The Mac Pro - as you said, they don't need it.
- The iMac - not suitable for many people
- A non-Mac
Take me for example. I don't work on my home computer. I surf, I read email, and I edit photos (strictly hobbyist stuff) I would also like to run Windows under Fusion or Parallels for those pesky sites that don't work on anything but Explorer, and for running some Windows-only software such as CombineZ.I need more disk space than fits in the mini, and I want more memory. The iMac is almost a good fit, except for the fact that the screen does not fit my needs. I could go into details as to why the screen is a poor fit for me, but please just take my word on that.
The closest fit for me is the Mini, but I want a far bigger disk. Plugging an external disk via Firewire is (to me) an ugly abomination. From a marketing PoV this makes me spend less money on Apple products. In 9 years of being a Mac user, I'm only on my 2nd Mac. I keep waiting for Apple to release something that is a good fit for me, and I postpone purchase.
My first Mac was a B&W G3 tower. I wanted to buy an iMac, but that had only a 15" screen, and I wanted 17", and later a 19".
My second Mac was a G4 MDD tower. Again I wanted an iMac, but at the time, that also had only a 17" screen, while my monitor was at 19".
Now it's time to upgrade again. The iMac still has the wrong screen, but the current tower is incredibly overkill for my needs. A PC that sells for $800 in the US would cover my performance needs, but at Apple you can't get that computer even for $1200. You need to spring for the cheapest Mac Pro, and today, I'm not going to buy something that big.
If Apple had made the computers that fit my needs, I'd upgrade every three years, rather than five.
I think this is the first sensible thing you said in your entire reply, to let's start here. It's true. We must consider the Mac Mini if we do not need a Mac Pro. However, this does not mean we are satisfied with the Mac Mini for our application. I for one will would prefer a lower cost tower. There is not such a Mac, so someday I will buy a Mac Pro that is used and within my budget. This purchase will not contribute to Apple's bottom line at all.
Strictly speaking, this is not true. Buying used Mac Pros, means that there is a resale value in Mac Pro, which makes them more attractive to buyers of new Mac Pros.
That's the same reasoning that makes companies care about the price of their stocks in the secondary market.
Strictly speaking, this is not true. Buying used Mac Pros, means that there is a resale value in Mac Pro, which makes them more attractive to buyers of new Mac Pros.
That's the same reasoning that makes companies care about the price of their stocks in the secondary market.
While I agree with what you say, it would still do Apple more good to sell a Mac Mini Tower and have the added revenue.
Keeping prices of used Macs high, however, could have some impact, if Mac Pro users would be inclined to upgrade hardware more frequently. Of the two, a Mini Tower would help Apple's bottom line the most, IMHO.
While I agree with what you say, it would still do Apple more good to sell a Mac Mini Tower and have the added revenue.
Keeping prices of used Macs high, however, could have some impact, if Mac Pro users would be inclined to upgrade hardware more frequently. Of the two, a Mini Tower would help Apple's bottom line the most, IMHO.
I agree, even though I would much rather have a better Mini - I don't need the expandability, just lots of disk space and lots of memory.
All in Ones:
eMac
19? Widescreen Display with 1440x900 Resolution
(Yes, I can tell the difference between a 19? and 20? as I have both)
1.8ghz Core 2 Duo
1GB DDR2 Memory
160GB Hard drive
8x Dual Layer SuperDrive
Intel GMA X3100 Graphics Processor with 128MB shared memory
iMac
20? Glossy Widescreen Display with 1680x1050 Resolution
2.0ghz Core 2 Duo
1GB DDR2 Memory
250GB Hard drive
8x Dual Layer SuperDrive
128MB ATI Radeon HD 2400XT
iMac
20? Glossy Widescreen Display with 1680x1050 Resolution
2.4ghz Core 2 Duo
1GB DDR2 Memory
320GB Hard drive
8x Dual Layer SuperDrive
265MB ATI Radeon HD 2600Pro
iMac
20? Glossy Widescreen Display with 1900x1200 Resolution
2.4ghz Core 2 Duo
1GB DDR2 Memory
320GB Hard drive
8x Dual Layer SuperDrive
265MB ATI Radeon HD 2600Pro
iMac
20? Glossy Widescreen Display with 1900x1200 Resolution
2.8ghz Core 2 Extreme
2GB DDR2 Memory
500GB Hard drive
8x Dual Layer SuperDrive
265MB ATI Radeon HD 2600Pro
Small Form Factor Desktops:
Mac Mini Replacement (~8 x 8 x 2.5)
1.8ghz Core 2 Duo
1GB Memory
160GB Hard drive
8x Superdrive
Intel GMA X3100 Graphics Processor with 128MB shared memory
Mac Mini Replacement (~8 x 8 x 2.5)
2.0hz ghz Core 2 Duo
1GB Memory
250GB Hard drive
8x Superdrive
128MB ATI Radeon HD 2400XT
Mac Mini Replacement (~8 x 8 x 2.5)
2.4ghz Core 2 Duo
1GB memory
320GB Hard drive
8x SuperDrive
265MB ATI Radeon HD 2600Pro
Tower Desktop/ Workstations
Mac Pro Lite
2.66ghz Core 2 Duo
3.0ghz Core 2 Duo BTO
2.66ghz Core 2 Quad BTO
2GB DDR800 Memory (4 DIMMS 8GB Max)
320GB Hard drive (500GB, 750GB, 1TB BTO 2 Bays)
18x SATA Superdrive (2 Bays)
256MB Nvidia GeForce 8600GS
256MB Nvidia GeForce 8600GTS BTO
640MB Nvidia GeForce 8800GTS BTO
Mac Pro
2x 2.66ghz Quad Core Xeon
2x 2.0ghz Quad Core BTO
2x 3.0ghz Quad Core BTO
2GB DDR667 Memory (8 FB-DIMMS 16GB Max)
320GB Hard drive (500GB, 750GB, 1TB BTO 4 Bays)
18x SATA Superdrive (2 Bays)
256MB ATI FireGL V3600
512MB ATI FireGL V5600 BTO
1GB ATI FireGL 8600 BTO
Displays with iSight and Remote sensor:
20" $399
24" $699
30" $1599
I agree, even though I would much rather have a better Mini - I don't need the expandability, just lots of disk space and lots of memory.
I wasn't suggesting that Apple discontinue the Mini, if that is what you may be thinking. A mini tower could not sell as low in price as a mini, and it would not hurt to have the top mini and lowest tower overlap slightly, in price, IMHO.
A little off topic, but how would people respond to having this as Apple's desktop lineup
All in Ones:
eMac
19? Widescreen Display with 1440x900 Resolution
(Yes, I can tell the difference between a 19? and 20? as I have both)
1.8ghz Core 2 Duo
1GB DDR2 Memory
160GB Hard drive
8x Dual Layer SuperDrive
Intel GMA X3100 Graphics Processor with 128MB shared memory
iMac
20? Glossy Widescreen Display with 1680x1050 Resolution
2.0ghz Core 2 Duo
1GB DDR2 Memory
250GB Hard drive
8x Dual Layer SuperDrive
128MB ATI Radeon HD 2400XT
iMac
20? Glossy Widescreen Display with 1680x1050 Resolution
2.4ghz Core 2 Duo
1GB DDR2 Memory
320GB Hard drive
8x Dual Layer SuperDrive
265MB ATI Radeon HD 2600Pro
iMac
20? Glossy Widescreen Display with 1900x1200 Resolution
2.4ghz Core 2 Duo
1GB DDR2 Memory
320GB Hard drive
8x Dual Layer SuperDrive
265MB ATI Radeon HD 2600Pro
iMac
20? Glossy Widescreen Display with 1900x1200 Resolution
2.8ghz Core 2 Extreme
2GB DDR2 Memory
500GB Hard drive
8x Dual Layer SuperDrive
265MB ATI Radeon HD 2600Pro
Small Form Factor Desktops:
Mac Mini Replacement (~8 x 8 x 2.5)
1.8ghz Core 2 Duo
1GB Memory
160GB Hard drive
8x Superdrive
Intel GMA X3100 Graphics Processor with 128MB shared memory
Mac Mini Replacement (~8 x 8 x 2.5)
2.0hz ghz Core 2 Duo
1GB Memory
250GB Hard drive
8x Superdrive
128MB ATI Radeon HD 2400XT
Mac Mini Replacement (~8 x 8 x 2.5)
2.4ghz Core 2 Duo
1GB memory
320GB Hard drive
8x SuperDrive
265MB ATI Radeon HD 2600Pro
Tower Desktop/ Workstations
Mac Pro Lite
2.66ghz Core 2 Duo
3.0ghz Core 2 Duo BTO
2.66ghz Core 2 Quad BTO
2GB DDR800 Memory (4 DIMMS 8GB Max)
320GB Hard drive (500GB, 750GB, 1TB BTO 2 Bays)
18x SATA Superdrive (2 Bays)
256MB Nvidia GeForce 8600GS
256MB Nvidia GeForce 8600GTS BTO
640MB Nvidia GeForce 8800GTS BTO
Mac Pro
2x 2.66ghz Quad Core Xeon
2x 2.0ghz Quad Core BTO
2x 3.0ghz Quad Core BTO
2GB DDR667 Memory (8 FB-DIMMS 16GB Max)
320GB Hard drive (500GB, 750GB, 1TB BTO 4 Bays)
18x SATA Superdrive (2 Bays)
256MB ATI FireGL V3600
512MB ATI FireGL V5600 BTO
1GB ATI FireGL 8600 BTO
Displays with iSight and Remote sensor:
20" $399
24" $699
30" $1599
with the price of ram now days most of the system should have 2gb base.
eMac - 17" or 19" widescreen, 2GHz Core 2 Duo, GMA X3100.
Minitower - 2GHz Core 2 Duo, GMA X3100 on motherboard, 3.5" optical drive bay, 2 internal 3.5" bays, four memory slots, 2 PCI Express slots, one of which full width.
BTO: 2.4GHz Core 2 Quad, Geforce 8600GTS, Geforce 8800GTS 640MB.
I think that's about as much configuration as necessary. You don't go so much faster than that C2Q with dualcores that it'd be a good idea to buy a high end dualcore. The three graphics options cover desktop work, occasional accelerated work/low resolution gaming, and modeling/hardcore accelerated stuff/high resolution gaming very well. The integrated graphics cost nickels, really drop the base model production cost and "starting from" cost by avoiding the inclusion of an extra card, and are silent whereas the cards will have active cooling.
A little off topic, but how would people respond to having this as Apple's desktop lineup
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In that case, I would go with one of the Minis, probably the middle or top model.
And that's really the crux of he matter: you don't have enough money to buy a mac pro or an imac. So make the hack already.
If you knuckleheads spend half the time making a hack to get OS X running on commodity boxes as you do dreaming about this (which won't happen), that hack would be mature by now, supported on dozens of chipsets.
And that's really the crux of he matter: you don't have enough money to buy a mac pro or an imac. So make the hack already.
People like you really sour the experience of owning a Mac. You also make us all look some kind of wacky extremist cult instead of the enlightened computer users Mac owners should be.
If you knuckleheads spend half the time making a hack to get OS X running on commodity boxes as you do dreaming about this (which won't happen), that hack would be mature by now, supported on dozens of chipsets.
And that's really the crux of he matter: you don't have enough money to buy a mac pro or an imac. So make the hack already.
I don't need to "make the hack". If you look hard enough, you can find it on the Internet. If I download a hacked Mac OS X and also buy a shrink-wrapped Mac OS X, I don't think Apple could make a case against me. I don't think any EULA has ever been upheld by a court.
But never mind all that. We don't want a commodity box. We want an Apple box.
I don't need to "make the hack". If you look hard enough, you can find it on the Internet. If I download a hacked Mac OS X and also buy a shrink-wrapped Mac OS X, I don't think Apple could make a case against me. I don't think any EULA has ever been upheld by a court.
But never mind all that. We don't want a commodity box. We want an Apple box.
Perhaps, but you want commodity pricing. Commodity pricing can only come with commodity design.
People like you really sour the experience of owning a Mac. You also make us all look some kind of wacky extremist cult instead of the enlightened computer users Mac owners should be.
Whatever. When Linus T wanted unix on his PC, he started working on Linux: great story. Linux was a cult for a while, but now it's not at all. It has changed the world, in fact. If you want something, you're going to do well for yourself if you make it happen. The worst-case scenario is that Apple releases the machine you want before you can finish the project, and you've found that you've learned a lot in the process.
Getting back to the point: so the hack is already out there. Now, you have the opportunity to build the enclosure that you want. Snag a micro ATX board and a riser card or two and start working. Based on the 3D mockups here, there's no shortage of ideas. The company XtremeMac started like this, and as far as I can tell, Axiotron/OWC is still selling the only mac tablet.
While this doesn't really interest me, it seems like it would be a fun project for someone (or some group of folks), and having spent the past few years designing electronic products, enclosures, and prototypes, I would be glad to offer advice to any adventurous souls.