Heh, i own one too and even though i think it is a nice laptop to use i have found the design flaws make do not make it "Damn good design" and please stop with the magazine reviews. I could find good reviews of the Zune if you really wanted!!
Damn good design suggests to me that it has been designed with user funcionality in mind, not just looks. It is obvious that the lid mechanism on the MBP has been designed with looks in mind and less about functionality.
Why does everyone have to go Black and White on these issues. The trade off is clear to me and both side involve user functionality - The current design (which I do really like) give a lower profile, thinner aspect ratio while maintaining rigidity and robustness at the expense of extended movement. Both items, lower profile and extended movement, are user functionality issues. Apple's design tradeoff, to me, is a great choice - about 120-135 degrees of movement while maintaining the lower profile and strength. If that doesn't meet you needs then it doesn't meet you needs. Doesn't mean its a bad design tradeoff.
Be careful with sales figures, By the time it took Apple to sell 1,000,000 iPhones Nokia sold somewhere in the region of 74,000,000 of these "standard" phones!!
If apple had 100s of models and their phones cost $1, then im sure they could have sold a shit load by now.
If apple had 100s of models and their phones cost $1, then im sure they could have sold a shit load by now.
You are right i am sure they could of, although Nokias phones do not cost $1, many models would cost around the same as an iPhone just that the networks pay for the phones upfront where with the iPhone the customer pays upfront.
All i was saying was that using the fact that the iPhone sold 1million in 74 days as a reason why it is better than standard phones is not really a good idea.
Why does everyone have to go Black and White on these issues. The trade off is clear to me and both side involve user functionality - The current design (which I do really like) give a lower profile, thinner aspect ratio while maintaining rigidity and robustness at the expense of extended movement. Both items, lower profile and extended movement, are user functionality issues. Apple's design tradeoff, to me, is a great choice - about 120-135 degrees of movement while maintaining the lower profile and strength. If that doesn't meet you needs then it doesn't meet you needs. Doesn't mean its a bad design tradeoff.
I am not being black and white on this issue, i said the MBP is a nice laptop, the best i have ever had but that still is not enough to hold up the MBP as a beacon to damn good design becuase it does have flaws. While not dismissing your points, which do make plenty of sense there are some things that could of been designed better.
You said retaining lower profile and strength, that is qimply untrue, the lid is not strong enough hence why there is a common fault accross the MBP range in that the lid does not shut properly becuase it warps. This could easily lead to something falling between the lid while being carried in a bag and damaging the screen. This is not a god trade off for having a lighter laptop, a stronger lid at the expenece of a couple more grams of weight would have been a better trade off i think. The warped lids are not even deemed worthy of a return and replace from Apple which highlights how widespread the issue must be, and forgetting the real issue just purely on looks alone it seems strange to go to all the bother of designing such a nice laptop only for the whole design to be ruined by a lid that one one side is flush yet the other 4mm open - it does not look nicely designed when sitting closed on my desk.
It is not enough to ruin the MBP for me, it is not enough to wish i had never bought one, but it is enough to tell me that it could of been designed better and therefore it is not damn good design.
You are right i am sure they could of, although Nokias phones do not cost $1, many models would cost around the same as an iPhone just that the networks pay for the phones upfront where with the iPhone the customer pays upfront.
All i was saying was that using the fact that the iPhone sold 1million in 74 days as a reason why it is better than standard phones is not really a good idea.
It's not better for everyone, its not worse for everyone. I've been saying this since January - its aimed at a different, and in IMO significant, market than current phones. A market that has not been well served at all by current phones and one that doesn't value these so called 'standard' features as much as the iPhone 'standard' features of usability, user friendliness, etc. This is why I said that these features sets that people point to should NOT be called 'standard', only 'usual' (or my snide approach of ubiquitous) .
Also, following on the MPB lid, re strength I was not referring to the top, which would have the same strength (as designed) in either hinge configuration, but to the hinge strength. The MBP hinge design has some inherent factors adding to its strength and durability.
No design will even be perfect. If a given product is considered 'best in class' at a given point in time (and you seem to put the MPB at that level) then I think it deserves the appellation 'Damed good design'
Whatever market you want to think the iphone is aimed at one thing remains. Users of phones in all those markets whether it be business, music or otherwise: they all use features such as bluetooth for file sending, using mp3s as ringtones, recording videos ect....
Weve heard Job's response to why they wont use 3G yet but has there been any similar comment from him regarding why it cant record video?
I agree with ZO, the iPhone is far short of its potential. ZO didn't do the usual bitching.. no 3G, swappable battery etc, but identified valid short comings in certain features. Nothing wrong with this. Yes we all know about most of these before we buy and that doesn't stop us, but that doesn't make ZOs points any less valid. The iPhone is a fantastic product, but it has so much more potential, something nobody can deny.
Whatever market you want to think the iphone is aimed at one thing remains. Users of phones in all those markets whether it be business, music or otherwise: they all use features such as bluetooth for file sending, using mp3s as ringtones, recording videos ect....
Weve heard Job's response to why they wont use 3G yet but has there been any similar comment from him regarding why it cant record video?
I just don't agree. I think those items are not important to the market its aimed at. I certainly one of those in this market (whatever its size). I've never used anything but the supplied ringtones, I can't stand videos recorded on a phone. I've never transfered a file on a phone, and don't want to, etc. etc. This is what apple has seen - a market not driven by feature lists, but my usability. Again, so far, apple has hit their targets and so has understood the market they're going after - and yes, I'll say it for you, we'll see in Europe.
I do believe apple will eventually add most of these features (I hope not video but and as been pointe out mp3 ringtones are already there. Very easy to use the workarounds that are out there. I've tried it out of curiosity and then deleted the ringtone because it was just obnoxious
If a given product is considered 'best in class' at a given point in time (and you seem to put the MPB at that level) then I think it deserves the appellation 'Damed good design'
Cheers
Exactly. The MBP has been recognized as a damn good design by reviewers and - and here's the kicker - by the consumer.
I just don't agree. I think those items are not important to the market its aimed at. I certainly one of those in this market (whatever its size). I've never used anything but the supplied ringtones, I can't stand videos recorded on a phone. I've never transfered a file on a phone, and don't want to, etc. etc. This is what apple has seen - a market not driven by feature lists, but my usability. Again, so far, apple has hit their targets and so has understood the market they're going after - and yes, I'll say it for you, we'll see in Europe.
Physguy has hit the nail on the head. I'm in the exact same market, and I suspect we are far from alone. I've never desired the functions that some posters here see as necessary. I've never used a song as a ringtone (tricks are for kids and all that). I never even saw a need to own a mobile phone until two years ago, and the iPhone is only my second mobile.
I'm a mature, 30-something who isn't dazzled by a million features I'll never use. I just see a damned good design that is perfect for my needs i.e. an easy-to-use communication device with some useful entertainment features, not a mini-computer that pretends to do everything but in reality can't do it half as well as my MBP -- which is also a damned good design, btw!
2. Bluetooth: Absolutely worthless, you can ONLY use a hands free bluetooth adapter. No file transfer, sync, fax, modem connectivity.
i'm pretty sure this will be resolved in future updates...
Quote:
3. Language support: Only English dictionary/interface for now. I want to see how easy it will be to switch language dictionaries when typing SMSs. I constantly switch between Italian, English, and French every day.
...
4. Why can't you turn OFF the auto-correct function?
...
1. No foreign stock exchanges supported (come on already, wheres the Euronext, CAC, TSE, etc?)
...
1. Contacts: The "auto number formatting" is KILLING me. For the love of god let me enter a number normally without parentheses and spaces, etc. Its just.. wrong!
Really, you can't expect apple to fix these for you. You are running the phone in france, when it was designed to run in the US. Most people in the US would have little use for any language other then english, and i'm sure that you are whineing about the autocorrect for the same reason. The autocorrect uses an english dictionary, so it will try to help you type english, not french or italian or any other language you might use. as for the foreign stock exchanges, again, most people in the US would not care about what stocks are doing four thousand miles across an ocean. And as for the auto-number formatting, the US uses a different numbering system then Europe, so our parentheses and spaces will be different then your spaces.
Using the car analogie, that would be like me buing a european car, then whining because the steering wheel was on the wrong side, the gas guage was in liters, speed in kM/H ect. ect.
Really people, again, if you buy something from one country, and use it in a SPECIFICLY STATED unsupported country, don't complain about the lack of support!
I think Zo has made some good points. Yes, there are some wonderful features to the iPhone but there is surely a need for upgraded capabilities. While I do not think the iPhone has to have everything other phones have, voice dialing, a real tone for text message alerts, copy features, etc, and others already stated in other posts are in keeping with being world class.
As to the market that Apple is aiming for, a $600 phone is seeking those that have the money for "beyond category" experiences. Apple has done a great job of pointing the direction, but needs now to start the "paces" on the path leading to the future. I have been observing the usage behavior of many other iPhone users and voice dialing, search, and other features really do need to be added.
As to power users of smartphones, I too have come out of that segment and I am pulling for Apple in a major way but they have only touched the surface of the need. It is not an insult to Apple to have the iPhone criticized and I am hopeful again that they are listening. Some of us are on the "team" we simply want the "coach" to put in the right players... I think sometimes many on this blog take all Apple criticisms as mortal attacks and it is not meant to be so! I am here because I love the Apple company but they do piss me off sometimes. Hopefully through the sterilization of criticism, we will all get a better device! Again, same team!!!!
The thing is the Euro market is more advanced than the US one. You simply cant dispute that.
You say that bluetooth is useless but in my case, everyone I know at some point needs to use this to transfer a file whether it be a picture, video or contact.
As for video recording, where you say its useless and have no need for it, on the other hand you get phone on the European market that specialise in high quality video capture. Not high by digi cam standards but there is definatley a huge growth in that sector. Teh fact that companies specialise in bringing such good video capture only goes to disproove any notion that no one uses video recording.
Also staying on the camera phones, whilst you only have 2 or 3 mp cameras at most we have 5mp camera. By xmas there will be probably 5 different 5mp models fighting it out in Europe.
These are features that are used in Europe. When I get an iphone I will probably be forced into carrying a small digi cam around with me. And to be honest I dont mind as I know I will get high quality pics and vids which will be good for viewing on the iphone anyway but ALOT will not want to do this. They want all in once convergance devices.
This is what you guys had the 4gb model and 8gb model the same way as you had 2 versions of the PS3. When both those items came to Europe Apple had phased out the one which people didnt buy as they know we are more picky in Europe.
the European market that specialise in high quality video capture.
What phone are you talking about that specializes in high quality video capture? Seeing that dedicated consumer video cameras take pretty crappy video under certain conditions.
Quote:
When both those items came to Europe Apple had phased out the one which people didnt buy as they know we are more picky in Europe.
The thing is the Euro market is more advanced than the US one. You simply cant dispute that.
You say that bluetooth is useless but in my case, everyone I know at some point needs to use this to transfer a file whether it be a picture, video or contact.
As for video recording, where you say its useless and have no need for it, on the other hand you get phone on the European market that specialise in high quality video capture. Not high by digi cam standards but there is definatley a huge growth in that sector. Teh fact that companies specialise in bringing such good video capture only goes to disproove any notion that no one uses video recording.
Also staying on the camera phones, whilst you only have 2 or 3 mp cameras at most we have 5mp camera. By xmas there will be probably 5 different 5mp models fighting it out in Europe.
These are features that are used in Europe. When I get an iphone I will probably be forced into carrying a small digi cam around with me. And to be honest I dont mind as I know I will get high quality pics and vids which will be good for viewing on the iphone anyway but ALOT will not want to do this. They want all in once convergance devices.
This is what you guys had the 4gb model and 8gb model the same way as you had 2 versions of the PS3. When both those items came to Europe Apple had phased out the one which people didnt buy as they know we are more picky in Europe.
You're continuing to argue black and white which is not the case. No one here has said, and I quote "no one uses video recording". That is clearly not the case. The converse is also just as false - "everyone uses video recording". So what's the point???
5mp - fighting it out over what? The entire phone market? don't think so. The portion of the phone market that values high-quality picture - probably. How big is that market? I don't know and I bet you don't either. I KNOW there is a market for phones specifically without cameras. I DON'T KNOW how big that is.
Apple phased out the 4 GB because it wasn't selling in the US so, I guess by your logic, US'ers are more picky that EU'ers.
Again, the phone market is huge and more importantly DIVERSE. One size definitely doesn't fit all.
5mp - fighting it out over what? The entire phone market? don't think so. The portion of the phone market that values high-quality picture - probably. How big is that market? I don't know and I bet you don't either.
Well, this would be the market of high-end consumer phones and low-end business/smart phone devices, mmm let me see, what other device is aimed squarely at that market?
Video Recording
MMS
Full SMS capability
3G
Swappable Battery
5mp camera - with flash and "proper camera" lens
Wifi - in some models
That is about standard specs for a new phone in that segment, this is exactly what the iPhone is competing with in Europe. And on a tarrif equal to the iPhones tarrif these phones will be available heavily subsidised - even no upfront cost at all.
Well, this would be the market of high-end consumer phones and low-end business/smart phone devices, mmm let me see, what other device is aimed squarely at that market?
Video Recording
MMS
Full SMS capability
3G
Swappable Battery
5mp camera - with flash and "proper camera" lens
Wifi - in some models
That is about standard specs for a new phone in that segment, this is exactly what the iPhone is competing with in Europe. And on a tarrif equal to the iPhones tarrif these phones will be available heavily subsidised - even no upfront cost at all.
All I can say is I hope so. If this phone is for the iPhone market then iPhone will sail through. Its not about features, IMO. This is for a different market - the tech market that want's feature lists. As had been said by both proponents, only time will tell, but the question is not 'it the iPhone a Beta' but 'is the market for the iPhone real'. I think it is, and its different that for the phone you put forward above. That's thick, and ugly and is to because it does many things I don't want. Other that WiFi there's nothing in your list I want, or would trade battery life for (3G). Apple in ONLY going after 1% of the market with the current iPhone and that's where I think they will succeed. They don't have to 'kill' the N95's or other similar feature-phones to do that.
The 'market segment' you mention - high-end consumer phones and low-end business/smart phone devices - is, by itself, far from homogeneous.
If they add some of these 'feature' with a software upgrade, that's great for sales. I just hope they don't add them in a way that screws up the interface (which I don't think they will).
Comments
Heh, i own one too and even though i think it is a nice laptop to use i have found the design flaws make do not make it "Damn good design" and please stop with the magazine reviews. I could find good reviews of the Zune if you really wanted!!
Damn good design suggests to me that it has been designed with user funcionality in mind, not just looks. It is obvious that the lid mechanism on the MBP has been designed with looks in mind and less about functionality.
Why does everyone have to go Black and White on these issues. The trade off is clear to me and both side involve user functionality - The current design (which I do really like) give a lower profile, thinner aspect ratio while maintaining rigidity and robustness at the expense of extended movement. Both items, lower profile and extended movement, are user functionality issues. Apple's design tradeoff, to me, is a great choice - about 120-135 degrees of movement while maintaining the lower profile and strength. If that doesn't meet you needs then it doesn't meet you needs. Doesn't mean its a bad design tradeoff.
Be careful with sales figures, By the time it took Apple to sell 1,000,000 iPhones Nokia sold somewhere in the region of 74,000,000 of these "standard" phones!!
If apple had 100s of models and their phones cost $1, then im sure they could have sold a shit load by now.
If apple had 100s of models and their phones cost $1, then im sure they could have sold a shit load by now.
You are right i am sure they could of, although Nokias phones do not cost $1, many models would cost around the same as an iPhone just that the networks pay for the phones upfront where with the iPhone the customer pays upfront.
All i was saying was that using the fact that the iPhone sold 1million in 74 days as a reason why it is better than standard phones is not really a good idea.
Why does everyone have to go Black and White on these issues. The trade off is clear to me and both side involve user functionality - The current design (which I do really like) give a lower profile, thinner aspect ratio while maintaining rigidity and robustness at the expense of extended movement. Both items, lower profile and extended movement, are user functionality issues. Apple's design tradeoff, to me, is a great choice - about 120-135 degrees of movement while maintaining the lower profile and strength. If that doesn't meet you needs then it doesn't meet you needs. Doesn't mean its a bad design tradeoff.
I am not being black and white on this issue, i said the MBP is a nice laptop, the best i have ever had but that still is not enough to hold up the MBP as a beacon to damn good design becuase it does have flaws. While not dismissing your points, which do make plenty of sense there are some things that could of been designed better.
You said retaining lower profile and strength, that is qimply untrue, the lid is not strong enough hence why there is a common fault accross the MBP range in that the lid does not shut properly becuase it warps. This could easily lead to something falling between the lid while being carried in a bag and damaging the screen. This is not a god trade off for having a lighter laptop, a stronger lid at the expenece of a couple more grams of weight would have been a better trade off i think. The warped lids are not even deemed worthy of a return and replace from Apple which highlights how widespread the issue must be, and forgetting the real issue just purely on looks alone it seems strange to go to all the bother of designing such a nice laptop only for the whole design to be ruined by a lid that one one side is flush yet the other 4mm open - it does not look nicely designed when sitting closed on my desk.
It is not enough to ruin the MBP for me, it is not enough to wish i had never bought one, but it is enough to tell me that it could of been designed better and therefore it is not damn good design.
You are right i am sure they could of, although Nokias phones do not cost $1, many models would cost around the same as an iPhone just that the networks pay for the phones upfront where with the iPhone the customer pays upfront.
All i was saying was that using the fact that the iPhone sold 1million in 74 days as a reason why it is better than standard phones is not really a good idea.
It's not better for everyone, its not worse for everyone. I've been saying this since January - its aimed at a different, and in IMO significant, market than current phones. A market that has not been well served at all by current phones and one that doesn't value these so called 'standard' features as much as the iPhone 'standard' features of usability, user friendliness, etc. This is why I said that these features sets that people point to should NOT be called 'standard', only 'usual' (or my snide approach of ubiquitous) .
Also, following on the MPB lid, re strength I was not referring to the top, which would have the same strength (as designed) in either hinge configuration, but to the hinge strength. The MBP hinge design has some inherent factors adding to its strength and durability.
No design will even be perfect. If a given product is considered 'best in class' at a given point in time (and you seem to put the MPB at that level) then I think it deserves the appellation 'Damed good design'
Cheers
Weve heard Job's response to why they wont use 3G yet but has there been any similar comment from him regarding why it cant record video?
Whatever market you want to think the iphone is aimed at one thing remains. Users of phones in all those markets whether it be business, music or otherwise: they all use features such as bluetooth for file sending, using mp3s as ringtones, recording videos ect....
Weve heard Job's response to why they wont use 3G yet but has there been any similar comment from him regarding why it cant record video?
I just don't agree. I think those items are not important to the market its aimed at. I certainly one of those in this market (whatever its size). I've never used anything but the supplied ringtones, I can't stand videos recorded on a phone. I've never transfered a file on a phone, and don't want to, etc. etc. This is what apple has seen - a market not driven by feature lists, but my usability. Again, so far, apple has hit their targets and so has understood the market they're going after - and yes, I'll say it for you, we'll see in Europe.
I do believe apple will eventually add most of these features (I hope not video but
If a given product is considered 'best in class' at a given point in time (and you seem to put the MPB at that level) then I think it deserves the appellation 'Damed good design'
Cheers
Exactly. The MBP has been recognized as a damn good design by reviewers and - and here's the kicker - by the consumer.
I don't think the Zune can make that claim.
I just don't agree. I think those items are not important to the market its aimed at. I certainly one of those in this market (whatever its size). I've never used anything but the supplied ringtones, I can't stand videos recorded on a phone. I've never transfered a file on a phone, and don't want to, etc. etc. This is what apple has seen - a market not driven by feature lists, but my usability. Again, so far, apple has hit their targets and so has understood the market they're going after - and yes, I'll say it for you, we'll see in Europe.
Physguy has hit the nail on the head. I'm in the exact same market, and I suspect we are far from alone. I've never desired the functions that some posters here see as necessary. I've never used a song as a ringtone (tricks are for kids and all that). I never even saw a need to own a mobile phone until two years ago, and the iPhone is only my second mobile.
I'm a mature, 30-something who isn't dazzled by a million features I'll never use. I just see a damned good design that is perfect for my needs i.e. an easy-to-use communication device with some useful entertainment features, not a mini-computer that pretends to do everything but in reality can't do it half as well as my MBP -- which is also a damned good design, btw!
The rest of the features are not as important to me as the ability of voice dialing.
2. Bluetooth: Absolutely worthless, you can ONLY use a hands free bluetooth adapter. No file transfer, sync, fax, modem connectivity.
i'm pretty sure this will be resolved in future updates...
3. Language support: Only English dictionary/interface for now. I want to see how easy it will be to switch language dictionaries when typing SMSs. I constantly switch between Italian, English, and French every day.
...
4. Why can't you turn OFF the auto-correct function?
...
1. No foreign stock exchanges supported (come on already, wheres the Euronext, CAC, TSE, etc?)
...
1. Contacts: The "auto number formatting" is KILLING me. For the love of god let me enter a number normally without parentheses and spaces, etc. Its just.. wrong!
Really, you can't expect apple to fix these for you. You are running the phone in france, when it was designed to run in the US.
Using the car analogie, that would be like me buing a european car, then whining because the steering wheel was on the wrong side, the gas guage was in liters, speed in kM/H ect. ect.
Really people, again, if you buy something from one country, and use it in a SPECIFICLY STATED unsupported country, don't complain about the lack of support!
As to the market that Apple is aiming for, a $600 phone is seeking those that have the money for "beyond category" experiences. Apple has done a great job of pointing the direction, but needs now to start the "paces" on the path leading to the future. I have been observing the usage behavior of many other iPhone users and voice dialing, search, and other features really do need to be added.
As to power users of smartphones, I too have come out of that segment and I am pulling for Apple in a major way but they have only touched the surface of the need. It is not an insult to Apple to have the iPhone criticized and I am hopeful again that they are listening. Some of us are on the "team" we simply want the "coach" to put in the right players... I think sometimes many on this blog take all Apple criticisms as mortal attacks and it is not meant to be so! I am here because I love the Apple company but they do piss me off sometimes. Hopefully through the sterilization of criticism, we will all get a better device! Again, same team!!!!
You say that bluetooth is useless but in my case, everyone I know at some point needs to use this to transfer a file whether it be a picture, video or contact.
As for video recording, where you say its useless and have no need for it, on the other hand you get phone on the European market that specialise in high quality video capture. Not high by digi cam standards but there is definatley a huge growth in that sector. Teh fact that companies specialise in bringing such good video capture only goes to disproove any notion that no one uses video recording.
Also staying on the camera phones, whilst you only have 2 or 3 mp cameras at most we have 5mp camera. By xmas there will be probably 5 different 5mp models fighting it out in Europe.
These are features that are used in Europe. When I get an iphone I will probably be forced into carrying a small digi cam around with me. And to be honest I dont mind as I know I will get high quality pics and vids which will be good for viewing on the iphone anyway but ALOT will not want to do this. They want all in once convergance devices.
This is what you guys had the 4gb model and 8gb model the same way as you had 2 versions of the PS3. When both those items came to Europe Apple had phased out the one which people didnt buy as they know we are more picky in Europe.
the European market that specialise in high quality video capture.
What phone are you talking about that specializes in high quality video capture? Seeing that dedicated consumer video cameras take pretty crappy video under certain conditions.
When both those items came to Europe Apple had phased out the one which people didnt buy as they know we are more picky in Europe.
You are just making stuff up now.
The thing is the Euro market is more advanced than the US one. You simply cant dispute that.
You say that bluetooth is useless but in my case, everyone I know at some point needs to use this to transfer a file whether it be a picture, video or contact.
As for video recording, where you say its useless and have no need for it, on the other hand you get phone on the European market that specialise in high quality video capture. Not high by digi cam standards but there is definatley a huge growth in that sector. Teh fact that companies specialise in bringing such good video capture only goes to disproove any notion that no one uses video recording.
Also staying on the camera phones, whilst you only have 2 or 3 mp cameras at most we have 5mp camera. By xmas there will be probably 5 different 5mp models fighting it out in Europe.
These are features that are used in Europe. When I get an iphone I will probably be forced into carrying a small digi cam around with me. And to be honest I dont mind as I know I will get high quality pics and vids which will be good for viewing on the iphone anyway but ALOT will not want to do this. They want all in once convergance devices.
This is what you guys had the 4gb model and 8gb model the same way as you had 2 versions of the PS3. When both those items came to Europe Apple had phased out the one which people didnt buy as they know we are more picky in Europe.
You're continuing to argue black and white which is not the case. No one here has said, and I quote "no one uses video recording". That is clearly not the case. The converse is also just as false - "everyone uses video recording". So what's the point???
5mp - fighting it out over what? The entire phone market? don't think so. The portion of the phone market that values high-quality picture - probably. How big is that market? I don't know and I bet you don't either. I KNOW there is a market for phones specifically without cameras. I DON'T KNOW how big that is.
Apple phased out the 4 GB because it wasn't selling in the US so, I guess by your logic, US'ers are more picky that EU'ers.
Again, the phone market is huge and more importantly DIVERSE. One size definitely doesn't fit all.
5mp - fighting it out over what? The entire phone market? don't think so. The portion of the phone market that values high-quality picture - probably. How big is that market? I don't know and I bet you don't either.
Well, this would be the market of high-end consumer phones and low-end business/smart phone devices, mmm let me see, what other device is aimed squarely at that market?
Video Recording
MMS
Full SMS capability
3G
Swappable Battery
5mp camera - with flash and "proper camera" lens
Wifi - in some models
That is about standard specs for a new phone in that segment, this is exactly what the iPhone is competing with in Europe. And on a tarrif equal to the iPhones tarrif these phones will be available heavily subsidised - even no upfront cost at all.
This is the iPhone killer - http://europe.nokia.com/A4494164
Well, this would be the market of high-end consumer phones and low-end business/smart phone devices, mmm let me see, what other device is aimed squarely at that market?
Video Recording
MMS
Full SMS capability
3G
Swappable Battery
5mp camera - with flash and "proper camera" lens
Wifi - in some models
That is about standard specs for a new phone in that segment, this is exactly what the iPhone is competing with in Europe. And on a tarrif equal to the iPhones tarrif these phones will be available heavily subsidised - even no upfront cost at all.
This is the iPhone killer - http://europe.nokia.com/A4494164
All I can say is I hope so. If this phone is for the iPhone market then iPhone will sail through. Its not about features, IMO. This is for a different market - the tech market that want's feature lists. As had been said by both proponents, only time will tell, but the question is not 'it the iPhone a Beta' but 'is the market for the iPhone real'. I think it is, and its different that for the phone you put forward above. That's thick, and ugly and is to because it does many things I don't want. Other that WiFi there's nothing in your list I want, or would trade battery life for (3G). Apple in ONLY going after 1% of the market with the current iPhone and that's where I think they will succeed. They don't have to 'kill' the N95's or other similar feature-phones to do that.
The 'market segment' you mention - high-end consumer phones and low-end business/smart phone devices - is, by itself, far from homogeneous.
If they add some of these 'feature' with a software upgrade, that's great for sales. I just hope they don't add them in a way that screws up the interface (which I don't think they will).