Apple to fire up Penryn-based Mac Pros

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  • Reply 221 of 398
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,454member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    It was on a regular Mac forum, but I got the model number wrong. I thought the current Apple model was 1950-based. I didn't type all the extra letters because I hate those designations. The point being, this person claimed they put the Mac-compatible EFI firmware from the Mac version into the PC version, though I expect with some rejiggering.



    Yah you can do that. Our EFI cards have both an EFI and BIOS.
  • Reply 222 of 398
    Quote:

    Its more like you've been reminding Apple about the mini-tower market and they've been ignoring you. Actually I think ignoring is probably too strong... they've been thinking different.



    Hot air, Programmer. Hot air.



    Yeah. Thinking Different. So they won't ever do sub notebook, eh? But they'll get around to that. They'll do it their way. But never? Thinking Different is in the implementation. You're so smart, eh? But you didn't have the clairvoyance to foresee the switch to Intel, the Mac Mini, Bootcamp or the iPhone. Apple did. Sacred Cows? Your arguments are old news, Prog'. Any moment now, you'll be dragging Amorph out the closet to help you with the 'they'll never do a Mac under a grand' argument.



    They were never going to enter the server market either? Or sell more than the glass ceilinged 2 million mark? For a fresh perspective:



    Here's what my PC owning friend says:



    "It strikes me that there are a lot of frustrated potential customers on these boards not getting the product they want. The configuration options for macs and Mac Pros seem out of kilter to the potential market place. Apple are taking too long to innovate in their choice of specification. Apple pride themselves on design aesthetics - why are they refusing to carry the baton on meeting customer choice?



    In short, faster turnaround and configurability are required.



    There are a large number of motherboard manufacturers and two major players in the graphics card industry. Licensing to an 'Apple standard' isn't a major leap of faith. Such a license would allow a greater degree of choice and would promote internal competitivity between these players under the Apple banner.



    Nvidia are putting together a specification with cooler and motherboard manufacturers, so that their devices can communicate with one another for temperature / performance requirements. If Nvidia can do this - why not Apple?



    In my opinion, Apple need to "loosen their grip on the reins and let the horse have its head. "




    Well, that's what he said.



    A Mac Pro may come out on Jan 15 08 to sweep away his arguments if the latest Nvidia card comes with it...



    ...however, he does have a point. Or two. Apple have control. It's good. It allows ultimate control to innovate and beat the snot out of Vista and if you're an ipHone? Competing phones.



    However, the same control can occasional turn into rigid thinking that excludes others from sharing the Apple pie.



    We don't want the whole pie. A slice would be nice.



    eg. A mid. Tower. 2.4 quad. Gt. 2 gig Ram. A 500 gig hd. Not difficult. They can even sell with £100 premium and I'd still buy it. All together? Shouldn't cost more than £1000-£1300. Now. If 'Mesh' computers can do it? Why, sorry, WHY can't Apple? The 15 million dollars in teh bank company?



    Another example? iPhone? I don't use £35 pounds worth of talk/text time. So give me a contract with less content for £10-15?



    It's 'control'. I'd like a bit. Just bit. Just a bit. Or choice. 5 million configurations on a Mac Pro? But not one for a GTX card... But a Spanish keyboard?



    Put that in your spanish pipe, Programmer.



    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 223 of 398
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Programmer View Post


    they've been thinking different.



    Why have you bought into such a vapid marketing slogan, and held onto it for a decade?
  • Reply 224 of 398
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,454member
    Heh, this is the most I've seen Programmer get called out sine I've been here.
  • Reply 225 of 398
    http://www.crn.com/hardware/203100330



    Quote:

    Hewlett-Packard (NYSE:HPQ)'s gaming unit is holding off on launching systems based on Intel (NSDQ:INTC)'s new Penryn processor, saying that while the 45 nm chip is reliable on Intel chipsets more work needed to be done for the CPU to work with Nvidia's SLI.



    Rahul Sood, chief technology officer for HP's gaming unit, said on his web log Wednesday that his company received information last week - - which he declined to specify - - that kept it from launching gaming products with Penryn. Sood later clarified his remarks to say Intel's CPU itself was not unreliable, but that as a platform additional work needed to be done with third party chipsets.



    "We haven't launched Intel's 45 nm processor as planned," Sood wrote. "We, like many, were hoping that it would work flawlessly on certain chipsets -- and well, unfortunately it doesn't -- not yet anyways." He said that "the bottom line is we're working on a solution for Nvidia SLI, but at the moment there isn't one."



    Later on, Sood added, "it's not an issue of Intel's chip reliability, it's an issue of platform stability on certain non-Intel chipsets."



    HP is the world's Number 1 PC maker, and last year it acquired Sood's company, VooDooPC. That organization is now primarily responsible for HP's gaming PC business.



    "I don't want to get into the details, it's not a pretty situation," Sood wrote. "There is much confusion surrounding this launch -- it's somewhat unbelievable."



    An Intel spokesman lashed out against any characterization that Penryn is flawed, and said the processor "works as intended with Intel chipsets." He declined to say whether Penryn works with any third-party chipsets.



    A spokesman for Nvidia (NSDQ:NVDA) said his company was not invited to take part in Intel's Monday launch event, and that its SLI chipset does not currently support Penryn. He said Nvidia will launch its next-generation technology next month, and that it planned for its SLI to support Intel's 45 nm Yorkfield-Penryn technology at that point. The Nvidia spokesman said his company remains excited about prospects for the Intel CPU.



  • Reply 226 of 398
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    http://www.crn.com/hardware/203100330



    I really don't think it makes sense to delay the launch of the entire product line for that. I really don't think all that many systems will run as SLI, so I'd think that only the top of the line systems could be expected to be SLI capable.
  • Reply 227 of 398
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Many people use multiple monitors and multiple graphics cards. Delaying is obviously going to be the best option. They have a lot of customers that count on reliability, and workplace compatibility. Your essentially saying throw that away. Probably not a good idea especially if your the #1 selling computer manufacturer. I think they are going to try and keep that #1 spot. That coveted # alone sells computers.
  • Reply 228 of 398
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I really don't think it makes sense to delay the launch of the entire product line for that. I really don't think all that many systems will run as SLI, so I'd think that only the top of the line systems could be expected to be SLI capable.



    Besides gamers, HP sells a ton of professional workstations for Engineering, Architecture, Bio-Medical, etc.



    Having these systems work with hardware cards that would be swapped out and put in these new purchases or bought with the need to have such support would keep them from making new purchases until these issues are resolved.
  • Reply 229 of 398
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onlooker View Post


    Many people use multiple monitors and multiple graphics cards. Delaying is obviously going to be the best option. They have a lot of customers that count on reliability, and workplace compatibility. Your essentially saying throw that away. Probably not a good idea especially if your the #1 selling computer manufacturer. I think they are going to try and keep that #1 spot. That coveted # alone sells computers.



    What? The linked article discusses the actions of the game business unit. Do a lot of businesses buy computers that were marketed as game machines? I don't see why the entire line has to be updated at the same time either.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


    Besides gamers, HP sells a ton of professional workstations for Engineering, Architecture, Bio-Medical, etc.



    Having these systems work with hardware cards that would be swapped out and put in these new purchases or bought with the need to have such support would keep them from making new purchases until these issues are resolved.



    So these businesses buy game machines to do this, rather than proper workstations?
  • Reply 230 of 398
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    So these businesses buy game machines to do this, rather than proper workstations?



    Yes. It is amazing what Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare has done for employee morale and productivity. Not only is the enemy A.I. sufficient to fight intelligently, but it can also run numbers, write proposals and complete regulatory submissions. Business has never been better.

  • Reply 231 of 398
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emig647 View Post


    Heh, this is the most I've seen Programmer get called out sine I've been here.



    'bout time, I'd say.
  • Reply 232 of 398
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    Yeah. Thinking Different. So they won't ever do sub notebook, eh? But they'll get around to that. They'll do it their way. But never? Thinking Different is in the implementation. You're so smart, eh? But you didn't have the clairvoyance to foresee the switch to Intel, the Mac Mini, Bootcamp or the iPhone. Apple did. Sacred Cows?

    .

    .

    .

    They were never going to enter the server market either? Or sell more than the glass ceilinged 2 million mark? For a fresh perspective



    I think perhaps you should learn to read. I don't make a point of predicting where they are going, I'm looking at why they haven't fulfilled your wishes... yet. In fact my point is that Apple is looking for ways to do the unexpected and go places in the market that are different. They certainly have gone in directions that caught me (and most people) by surprise. My saying they are "thinking different" isn't buying into a vapid marketing slogan, it just a phrase that happens to fit (I could and did say that they are applying the blue ocean strategy). It is an observation that they know they are a different kind of company than the other PC makers, and that is their strength. When they lost sight of it they just about folded up shop.



    If you actually read what I've been writing, you'd see that I'm not saying that they won't try to make a play for the people buying the mini-tower type PCs... I'm saying that they haven't because they haven't figured how to do it in a way that delivers a big payoff. Looking at the PC vendors merging or going out of business over the past few years (and Apple itself in the mid-90s), you can see that not doing it right can break a company. I can guess at how they might try to make a play for the mini-tower market, but its just speculation and I hope they surprise me (and everyone else). Innovation is how we get leaps forward instead of just small incremental improvements.



    And by the way, I don't smoke. Its a vile habit.
  • Reply 233 of 398
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I really don't think it makes sense to delay the launch of the entire product line for that. I really don't think all that many systems will run as SLI, so I'd think that only the top of the line systems could be expected to be SLI capable.



    My guess is that the mention of SLI is a misnomer or gross over-simplification. The 3rd party chipset(s) that HP is using most likely are buggier than hell and they've been scrambling to make them work reliably ever since they started getting Penyrn samples. No doubt they are praying a software patch can do the trick, and dreading that a hardware revision may be required.
  • Reply 234 of 398
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IanW View Post


    Since no update to the Mac Pro's you would be a fool to not choose a 2.8 24" Imac over a Mac Pro.... Cost you're getting a free 24" Monitor!



    I agree with emig647 that you can't compare a 2.8 iMac with a quad- or 8-core Mac Pro. Working in a school district that's bought a lot of the 2.4 iMacs lately --and I have a current 8-core Mac Pro on my desk-- they're not equitable. Even given the faster processor in a 2.8, it simply cannot compare to the performance of a Mac Pro. Dual-core 2.8 with 800MHz frontside bus vs quad/8-core 3GHz with 1333MHz frontside bus--hands down the Mac Pro is faster by a large margin.



    It all depends on what you want/need to use a computer for... if the performance of an iMac is sufficient, go for it and save yourself some money. But to suggest someone would be foolish to choose a Mac Pro over an iMac isn't logical... some people do need the performance benefits the Mac Pro offers. I have an 8-core Mac Pro at work and I'll be buying one of the new Penryn-based 8-core Mac Pros for home once it's released.
  • Reply 235 of 398
    idaveidave Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by da2357 View Post


    It all depends on what you want/need to use a computer for... if the performance of an iMac is sufficient, go for it and save yourself some money. But to suggest someone would be foolish to choose a Mac Pro over an iMac isn't logical... some people do need the performance benefits the Mac Pro offers.



    Not to mention extra drive bays, PCI slots and dual-link DVI. Comparing an iMac to a Mac Pro is like comparing a one-man band to a symphony orchestra.
  • Reply 236 of 398
    Here is my WAG (Wild Ass Guess):

    New Mac Pro next month with a slight re-design, its not like apple hasn't already had the time. Lets face it though the current Mac Pro layout is nearly optimum as far as layout and nice features go (come on the SATA hard drive bays are wonderful). Perhaps a more BTX type layout and slight re-work of some internal thermals is all.

    I just keep on laughing when people talk about how much of a work of art a professional powerful mac should be. please its a Mac Pro, its normally stuffed under a desk or next to a bunch of big monitors. its not a centerpiece in a home or home office like a iMac is. It needs to simply say, "yeah I am a Mac, bet I could beat up your workstation and look better while doing it too."

    38xx based GPUs as an option and Apple is just waiting for Intel to ship it enough CPUs to start full production. Apple planed on releasing already, but wants enough quantities of the higher end chips. I predict at least a normal and a high end base configuration. Quad core CPUs all around, and perhaps we may finally see more then a gig of RAM on the high end mac.



    I need to buy a Mac Pro soon so I hope it gets released with a nice GPU. Oh also fixing all of the bugs and problems in 10.5 would be nice too. 10.5.1 still feels like a Release Candidate to me.
  • Reply 237 of 398
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iDave View Post


    Not to mention extra drive bays, PCI slots and dual-link DVI. Comparing an iMac to a Mac Pro is like comparing a one-man band to a symphony orchestra.



    Totally agree. Until you can work on both machines long enough to see what they're capable of, people shouldn't make such flagrant statements. Now having worked with them both, I couldn't imagine working on anything other than a Mac Pro for development... which is why I'm sadly waiting (trying to be patient) for Apple to release a Penryn-based Mac Pro.
  • Reply 238 of 398
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    What? The linked article discusses the actions of the game business unit. Do a lot of businesses buy computers that were marketed as game machines? I don't see why the entire line has to be updated at the same time either.







    So these businesses buy game machines to do this, rather than proper workstations?



    No, smartass. I extended the contents of the article to it's logical conclusion.



    Do yourself a favor and actually work for an operating system company some time. You could learn a lot.
  • Reply 239 of 398
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    What? The linked article discusses the actions of the game business unit. Do a lot of businesses buy computers that were marketed as game machines? I don't see why the entire line has to be updated at the same time either.



    So these businesses buy game machines to do this, rather than proper workstations?



    I'm not really sure what you were getting at anymore. \
  • Reply 240 of 398
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Programmer View Post


    It is an observation that they know they are a different kind of company than the other PC makers, and that is their strength. When they lost sight of it they just about folded up shop.



    That would be because they were offering slower or the same hardware with no benefits for a higher price. They know how to make the same hardware much better now as they have a strong customer service rep, you can run Windows, the hardware prices are sort of competitive, OS X is a good system, they have some great exclusive industry standard software and nicely designed and quiet computers. In no way does any of that preclude targeting the largest user base by building a mini version of the Mac Pro.



    As for release dates, if Apple do maintain the same Mac Pro price points then surely that means 8 cores across the board. This also means the gap between the iMac and Mac Pro will widen enormously. So I'd say they either offer a cheaper single quad on the low end, which should close the gap down and that can be released any time soon or they hold off until mobile Penryn and then upgrade the entire lineup and have a whole Penryn Macworld event.



    I hope it's the former as the Mac Pro isn't good value right now and in another 2 months, it will look quite pathetic.
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