Say what? You should see some action closer to Christmas.
Um...you are supposedly old enough to have been there and young enough to remember. I certainly am. The answer is no...the Macintosh was the machine that changed the game. NeXT/NeXTSTEP right after. Then Pixar in 1986.
I still seem to see MS with 90 some odd percent of the market. MS and Apple never really played the same game... except perhaps in the brief period while Jobs was gone from Apple.
He certainly is a more shrewd businessman than when younger. And he remains innovative today...but business success is also not the same as innovation.
Um. That's nothing to pay for a company. Of course, you wouldn't bother unless you intend to do something useful with that membership.
Because Google, Yahoo, etc are not real companies that exist today...do you bother to read or just blather on? None of those people I listed are either boomers or founders of recent startups.
Yes, old people are powerful. Incumbents usually are.
I couldn't care less if BR is successful or not to tell you the truth. I'm not all that invested in particular technology solutions. IF I did care (as you continue to claim...I think you protest too much), I'd go buy one now instead of attempting to FUD it to death.
Either it becomes mainstream or a mainstream HD solution will exist. Given that there are no OTHER viable HD movie rental/ownership mechanisms at the moment that fits the bill, I'm guessing that BR is the technology that fills the void, that prices WILL drop to mass market levels and that titles WILL be available.
The burden of proof is on the Cassandra wannabees to show why none of that will happen in due time. Due time being CLOSER TO CHRISTMAS. Not two flipping years from now.
Well in the short term at least this is not a good sign for BD.
I know there are some here who don't care but ST has always been a major seller for any previous format. Something that really got the ball rolling.
So it remains to be seen what this means for the movies.
It sounds like the war goes on or at least the damage and fallout from it.
Also
From you :
" Um...you are supposedly old enough to have been there and young enough to remember. I certainly am. The answer is no...the Macintosh was the machine that changed the game. NeXT/NeXTSTEP right after. Then Pixar in 1986. "
My quote :
" Also I might argue that Steve Jobs did his best innovating when he was older. Most great innovators stand the test of time and don't only do one thing. Sure when he was young SJ invented Apple ( with other Steve ) and was around for the birth of the Macintosh. However what he did later was much more impressive. "
You'll notice the word Macintosh in there. I seem to recall he was more interested in the LISA.
Nextstep didn't amount to anything until later when it was incorporated into OS X. It looked nice though.
I'd be willing to bet he's still kicking himself for allowing idiots to take control of Apple. Who knows what might have happened if he could have used the same savvy he has now.
Pixar Yeah he is an amazing man.
The rest is your opinion only.
And here I thought we had a freindly ending to all of this and had moved on.
However in the late 90's they were writing Apple's obituary.
Steve Jobs had to do some heavy duty innovating to pull it's butt out of the wringer back in the late 90's. He did that by finally updating the OS which many a CEO had tried to do previously, made a suite of unbeatable programs for it, and later with the ipod and iphone really got things going. All this from a company that was near ruin. I'd call that pretty innovative.
Without these " Ideas " Apple would either be owned by another company by now or simply history. Kind of like he did it again. Reinvented Apple itself. I'd call that his greatist achievement.
Everyone was so sure it would go under ( you're supposed to be old enough to remember ) but he totally turned it around and in very little time. And this wasn't done by just business decisions it was made possible by ideas. Innovation.
No really I had let this go thinking we had agreed to disagree.
And for some one who says my age isn't important you bring it up more than I have!
I kind of agree with vinea that 4th quarter 2008 should be an interesting time for BD. Player prices should be down, probably a $199 figure is unrealistic, $299 on sale might be more likely. By that time Universal and Paramount should have released some titles and hopefully all studios will be releasing all their major hit titles on both BD and DVD on the same day, like Disney did with Enchanted and Miramx with No Country for Old Men. Maybe even something will happen that make the Trekkies happy by then
I know there are some here who don't care but ST has always been a major seller for any previous format. Something that really got the ball rolling.
I have a feeling that there's a lot of work to be done to remaster Season 1 for Blu-ray. The same for Season 2 assuming its HDDVD release was close at hand before the dominos started falling. I wouldn't be surprised if Paramount will wait for Season 3 and either release them all in Blu in quick succession, or as a boxed set for 700 Quatloos.
Since the movies have more mainstream appeal I bet they're waiting for better Blu-ray market penetration.
I kind of agree with vinea that 4th quarter 2008 should be an interesting time for BD. Player prices should be down, probably a $199 figure is unrealistic, $299 on sale might be more likely. By that time Universal and Paramount should have released some titles and hopefully all studios will be releasing all their major hit titles on both BD and DVD on the same day, like Disney did with Enchanted and Miramx with No Country for Old Men. Maybe even something will happen that make the Trekkies happy by then
I'll have my doubts on having high hopes for 4th quarter 2008. I would expect the bad US economy would exacerbate the HDM adoption plans/hopes for most except for the enthusiasts who has already committed. The luxury hobbies like the Home Theater and the HDM home viewing, a smaller niche market, at home will not be on everyone's must have list for the holidays. It's unfortunate, but this is the reality I can expect for the year end. Also, don't forget that the pricing of hardware and software is still very important for the mass adoption and I doubt that blu-ray will be there by the year end regardless of the dying US economy.
BTW, the 2nd season Star Trek would have to be completely reauthored for Blu-Ray even when the same video codec can be used. I'm sure all the interactive features have to be either re-written in java or be removed if internet interactivity was involved. Perhaps, Paramount is waiting for the profile 2.0 implementation to release the blu-ray version of star trek series.
There is a sense of great satisfaction that once 2.0 players are released all players will essentially be future proofed. It does give sony a leg up being that the PS3 is the only current internet capable player. I can not blame sony for that one bit. All these manufacturers new the spec wasn't finished. I have to ask myself why none of them didn't have an ethernet capable player from day one? It may have added $50 to their price at most, but if even one of them would have added it they probably would have had a better selling player.
My question is: is it possible to load a script on to a disk that will flash the firmware? I've seen it on DVD players why not Blu Ray players?
I'll have my doubts on having high hopes for 4th quarter 2008. I would expect the bad US economy would exacerbate the HDM adoption plans/hopes for most except for the enthusiasts who has already committed. The luxury hobbies like the Home Theater and the HDM home viewing, a smaller niche market, at home will not be on everyone's must have list for the holidays. It's unfortunate, but this is the reality I can expect for the year end. Also, don't forget that the pricing of hardware and software is still very important for the mass adoption and I doubt that blu-ray will be there by the year end regardless of the dying US economy.
...
It's a given that the economy is in bad shape, suffering from all the problems and mistakes of the last seven plus years, but that very fact might spur both BD hardware and media producers to some sales at a level that might not have occurred had the economy not tanked. As with most of this thread, everything at this point is speculation just with a different subject.
My question is: is it possible to load a script on to a disk that will flash the firmware? I've seen it on DVD players why not Blu Ray players?
I updated the firmware on my BDP-S300 this way.
Sony sent me a update disc in the mail, but I misplaced it so I downloaded it from their site, burned it to a disc and ran the update (which took about 30 minutes).
The PS3 is so much easier and much faster (in all respects: disc loading/ejecting, waiting for a movie to load, updating, etc.)
Sony sent me a update disc in the mail, but I misplaced it so I downloaded it from their site, burned it to a disc and ran the update (which took about 30 minutes).
Current players, besides the PS3, don't have the hardware to support 2.0, so it's not a matter of just updating firmware.
" Um...you are supposedly old enough to have been there and young enough to remember. I certainly am. The answer is no...the Macintosh was the machine that changed the game. NeXT/NeXTSTEP right after. Then Pixar in 1986. "
My quote :
" Also I might argue that Steve Jobs did his best innovating when he was older. Most great innovators stand the test of time and don't only do one thing. Sure when he was young SJ invented Apple ( with other Steve ) and was around for the birth of the Macintosh. However what he did later was much more impressive. "
You'll notice the word Macintosh in there. I seem to recall he was more interested in the LISA.
That would be difficult given he was forced out of the LISA development team in 1981 and why he co-opted the Macintosh from Raskin. "Was around" does not begin to describe Jobs' level of involvement with the Macintosh.
This is fairly basic Apple history. You recall incorrectly.
Quote:
Nextstep didn't amount to anything until later when it was incorporated into OS X. It looked nice though.
Yeah...until it turned into OSX. Are you kidding me? No NeXTSTEP, no resurgent Apple and triumphant Jobs.
Quote:
The rest is your opinion only.
It's just my opinion that Microsoft still has 90% market share or that Google, Yahoo, etc were built by GenXers and major technology companies?
Mmmkay.
Quote:
And here I thought we had a freindly ending to all of this and had moved on.
However in the late 90's they were writing Apple's obituary.
So? What does that have to do with whether or not Jobs was likely more innovative in the 80s vs more business savvy in the 00s?
Quote:
Steve Jobs had to do some heavy duty innovating to pull it's butt out of the wringer back in the late 90's. He did that by finally updating the OS which many a CEO had tried to do previously,
By largely replacing it with the one he built in the 80s.
Apple, is still an innovative company, especially given the iPhone. As I said, Jobs is one of the few that is still innovative at his age. However, I still believe (because MY memory still works AND I'm not so crochety I'll actually GOOGLE for information rather than depend on my fallible memory) that Jobs greatest innovations were in the 80s.
Quote:
Everyone was so sure it would go under ( you're supposed to be old enough to remember ) but he totally turned it around and in very little time. And this wasn't done by just business decisions it was made possible by ideas. Innovation.
Sure. But you made the assertion that he was MORE innovative than when he was when younger, evidently based on incorrect information.
Quote:
No really I had let this go thinking we had agreed to disagree.
And for some one who says my age isn't important you bring it up more than I have!
Only to point out it's weaknesses because you think it so important.
ObHD: So Star Trek - TOS won't be on HD in August. Sokay. $194 MSRP for Season One and it was like...nah. Star Trek has always been overpriced. At least its down to $100 at Amazon. Maybe if it goes fire sale I'll pick it up for the DVD side.
While I would have preferred a format that respected its customers enough not to inflict useless DRM on them, a format like that wasn't in the running.
So breaking the DRM is, unfortunately, the next best thing.
It's a given that the economy is in bad shape, suffering from all the problems and mistakes of the last seven plus years, but that very fact might spur both BD hardware and media producers to some sales at a level that might not have occurred had the economy not tanked. As with most of this thread, everything at this point is speculation just with a different subject.
Two points:
1) Folks feel that the economy will be better in 2009 for a variety of reasons (new leadership, past short recessions, etc...saw this on CNN video somewhere). Whether that's actually going to be true or not remains to be seen BUT if the consumers remain hopeful of 2009 then Christmas 2008 may not be as horrid as folks expect.
2) DVD adoption occured during the dot bomb and the 2000's recession. Growth did not appear to falter evenn through the peak although that recession WAS relatively mild if long lived.
2) DVD adoption occured during the dot bomb and the 2000's recession. Growth did not appear to falter evenn through the peak although that recession WAS relatively mild if long lived.
What was the original cost of a DVD, and at what point in it's life did we begin to enjoy $15.99 new-release sales with regular pricing of $19.99?
That would be difficult given he was forced out of the LISA development team in 1981 and why he co-opted the Macintosh from Raskin. "Was around" does not begin to describe Jobs' level of involvement with the Macintosh.
This is fairly basic Apple history. You recall incorrectly.
Yeah...until it turned into OSX. Are you kidding me? No NeXTSTEP, no resurgent Apple and triumphant Jobs.
It's just my opinion that Microsoft still has 90% market share or that Google, Yahoo, etc were built by GenXers and major technology companies?
Mmmkay.
So? What does that have to do with whether or not Jobs was likely more innovative in the 80s vs more business savvy in the 00s?
By largely replacing it with the one he built in the 80s.
Apple, is still an innovative company, especially given the iPhone. As I said, Jobs is one of the few that is still innovative at his age. However, I still believe (because MY memory still works AND I'm not so crochety I'll actually GOOGLE for information rather than depend on my fallible memory) that Jobs greatest innovations were in the 80s.
Sure. But you made the assertion that he was MORE innovative than when he was when younger, evidently based on incorrect information.
Only to point out it's weaknesses because you think it so important.
ObHD: So Star Trek - TOS won't be on HD in August. Sokay. $194 MSRP for Season One and it was like...nah. Star Trek has always been overpriced. At least its down to $100 at Amazon. Maybe if it goes fire sale I'll pick it up for the DVD side.
My statement :
" Nextstep didn't amount to anything until later when it was incorporated into OS X. It looked nice though. "
Your statement :
" Yeah...until it turned into OSX. Are you kidding me? No NeXTSTEP, no resurgent Apple and triumphant Jobs. "
I guess you can't even read?
" ObHD: So Star Trek - TOS won't be on HD in August. Sokay. $194 MSRP for Season One and it was like...nah. Star Trek has always been overpriced. At least its down to $100 at Amazon. Maybe if it goes fire sale I'll pick it up for the DVD side. "
This is just ignoring the obvious.
Also I said SJ was more interested in the LISA. As Wikipedia says it was in some ways a more advanced computer than the Macintosh. How does the fact that he was forced out of the program change any of that?
" The Lisa was a more advanced system than the Macintosh in many respects, such as its inclusion of protected memory, cooperative multitasking, a generally more sophisticated hard disk based operating system, a built-in screensaver, an advanced calculator with a paper tape and RPN, support for up to 2 megabytes of RAM memory, expansion slots, and a larger higher resolution display. It would be many years before many of those features were implemented on the Macintosh platform. Protected memory, for instance, did not arrive until the Mac OS X operating system was released in 2001. The Macintosh, however, featured a faster 68000 processor (7.89 MHz) and sound. The complexity of the Lisa operating system and its programs taxed the 5 MHz Motorola 68000 microprocessor so that the system felt sluggish, particularly when scrolling in documents. Despite its slow processor, an office productivity study awarded the Lisa an A, the Macintosh a B, and the IBM PC a C. "
By the way the inventors of " Yahoo " were born in 1966 and 1968. While not offically Baby boomers they are damn close and not youngsters.
As I've said though there's not anything wrong with being young and brite. You're the one who seems to have a lot of issues with old vs. young!
As it seems all you do is like to argue and ignore what the other person is saying I'm done with you. You can't have a discussion with someone who's so busy trying to think of what they're going to say next to listen to the other side. That's obvious since you don't even read my posts correctly or just see what you want to see.
You sir are a moron or a troll. I can't really tell which.
" Nextstep didn't amount to anything until later when it was incorporated into OS X. It looked nice though. "
Your statement :
" Yeah...until it turned into OSX. Are you kidding me? No NeXTSTEP, no resurgent Apple and triumphant Jobs. "
I guess you can't even read?
Yes, but you apparently can't reason. How do you equate "didn't amount to anything" with "turns into OSX"? I was restating your absurdity. Hence the "Are you kidding me?".
"Didn't amount to anything" might apply to BeOS. It does NOT apply to NeXTSTEP which fulfilled its name quite well. No NeXTSTEP and you might have seen Gassee instead of Jobs at the helm and truly no more Apple.
Quote:
" ObHD: So Star Trek - TOS won't be on HD in August. Sokay. $194 MSRP for Season One and it was like...nah. Star Trek has always been overpriced. At least its down to $100 at Amazon. Maybe if it goes fire sale I'll pick it up for the DVD side. "
This is just ignoring the obvious.
The obvious that $200 for a single season is pricing to just the ultimate die hard fans? Of the OLD series? A tiny subset of a middling fandom (compared to say Harry Potter)?
Therefore very unlikely to have much impact on the adoption of a new mainstream format?
Quote:
Also I said SJ was more interested in the LISA. As Wikipedia says it was in some ways a more advanced computer than the Macintosh. How does the fact that he was forced out of the program change any of that?
Having used LISAs professionally (in 1989) they were okay. More advanced than the Macintosh? Perhaps. More game changing? No. Obviously.
Jobs was driven from the LISA team for trying to build the Macintosh (in his usual dictatorial manner) which didn't quite align with the goals. Neither did the final machine at its hyper inflated price either but I digress.
Quote:
By the way the inventors of " Yahoo " were born in 1966 and 1968. While not offically Baby boomers they are damn close and not youngsters.
Not officially boomers. Or boomers in terms of life experiences. So...they aren't boomers. Late boomers '63-'64 don't behave much like even early 2nd cohort boomers ('55-'56) to which group they do officially belong given they grew up in the 80s rather than 70s.
The 80s were the start of the generational gap between boomers and everyone that followed. You see a mix of millenial behavior in early GenX (especially among geeks) that weren't possible in the 70s.
Computer game playing is one significant example.
Quote:
As I've said though there's not anything wrong with being young and brite. You're the one who seems to have a lot of issues with old vs. young!
No, I just had a problem with your assertion that boomers drive (all/most) change. Boomers will likely NOT drive the transition from DVD to Blu-Ray if it occurs DESPITE being one of the largest age groups and enjoys the most buying power today.
The age group most likely to drive Blu-Ray mainstream adoption are 18-24 males...and they have been given they've been buying PS3s.
Quote:
As it seems all you do is like to argue and ignore what the other person is saying I'm done with you. You can't have a discussion with someone who's so busy trying to think of what they're going to say next to listen to the other side. That's obvious since you don't even read my posts correctly or just see what you want to see.
You sir are a moron or a troll. I can't really tell which.
Nice name calling. Evidently age and witty repartee or graceful withdrawal are not synonymous either.
Lets stay on topic folks this is the Blu Ray thread.
We're on topic. You just have to follow along with the silliness. We're debating which demographic is the most likely to lead the change from DVD to Blu Ray should it occur (with some detour into Apple history which is likely okay given its AppleInsider).
He believes it is the same generation that supported the 8 track format as a mainstream format.
I believe its the generation currently buying PS3s.
There is some individual overlap...but not a whole lot.
Yes, but you apparently can't reason. How do you equate "didn't amount to anything" with "turns into OSX"? I was restating your absurdity. Hence the "Are you kidding me?".
"Didn't amount to anything" might apply to BeOS. It does NOT apply to NeXTSTEP which fulfilled its name quite well. No NeXTSTEP and you might have seen Gassee instead of Jobs at the helm and truly no more Apple.
The obvious that $200 for a single season is pricing to just the ultimate die hard fans? Of the OLD series? A tiny subset of a middling fandom (compared to say Harry Potter)?
Therefore very unlikely to have much impact on the adoption of a new mainstream format?
Having used LISAs professionally (in 1989) they were okay. More advanced than the Macintosh? Perhaps. More game changing? No. Obviously.
Jobs was driven from the LISA team for trying to build the Macintosh (in his usual dictatorial manner) which didn't quite align with the goals. Neither did the final machine at its hyper inflated price either but I digress.
Not officially boomers. Or boomers in terms of life experiences. So...they aren't boomers. Late boomers '63-'64 don't behave much like even early 2nd cohort boomers ('55-'56) to which group they do officially belong given they grew up in the 80s rather than 70s.
The 80s were the start of the generational gap between boomers and everyone that followed. You see a mix of millenial behavior in early GenX (especially among geeks) that weren't possible in the 70s.
Computer game playing is one significant example.
No, I just had a problem with your assertion that boomers drive (all/most) change. Boomers will likely NOT drive the transition from DVD to Blu-Ray if it occurs DESPITE being one of the largest age groups and enjoys the most buying power today.
The age group most likely to drive Blu-Ray mainstream adoption are 18-24 males...and they have been given they've been buying PS3s.
Nice name calling. Evidently age and witty repartee or graceful withdrawal are not synonymous either.
Punk. Lol...I couldn't resist. Sorry.
I paid $ 129.00 for season 1.
Anyone would be a fool to pay full price.
As for Nextstep I guees you can't read the word " until " in my sentence.
As for name calling what do you call " because MY memory still works AND I'm not so crochety I'll actually GOOGLE for information rather than depend on my fallible memory) "
My thinking is BR will have an uphill battle now. People are still in love with DVD and it's price ( both players and discs ). Young people don't usually have a lot of money to spend so if you assertion is right BR is doomed as long as they keep the price up.
But as you said it's not really important to you. It's you getting the last word that is.
Still pretty expensive for one season. Still not a mainstream kinda buy that's going to drive massive sales or prevent massive sales.
Quote:
As for Nextstep I guees you can't read the word " until " in my sentence.
Then your objection of NeXTSTEP as a major Jobs contribution makes no sense since it was innovative (IB and other UI aspects) and was THE foundation for the best and most widely used unix desktop on the market (OS X).
Quote:
As for name calling what do you call " because MY memory still works AND I'm not so crochety I'll actually GOOGLE for information rather than depend on my fallible memory) "
If that's descriptive of a participant, hey...shoe, fit, etc. Did you in fact look at Jobs' involvement with the Mac? No. How could anyone think that Jobs had LESS to do with the Mac than the LISA?
Quote:
My thinking is BR will have an uphill battle now. People are still in love with DVD and it's price ( both players and discs ). Young people don't usually have a lot of money to spend so if you assertion is right BR is doomed as long as they keep the price up.
Which is why there are millions of PSPs, NDS, 360s and PS3s sold. None of these are inexpensive. But obviously the 18-24 male demographic has no disposable income. Because you say so. Based on your vast experience. As a former TV sales guy. In the 80s.
Note that the 'definitely interested' iPhone demographic is 15-24, 32% 24-34 and 31% 35-49.
Boomers are not the target demographic for cool new technologies even when you count the under 50 set of which some arguably belong to the "Generation Jones" trasnition years.
Quote:
But as you said it's not really important to you. It's you getting the last word that is.
LOL...I'm not the one declaring "done" and then coming back for another helping. Posture much? How about being done and staying done?
Comments
Say what? You should see some action closer to Christmas.
Um...you are supposedly old enough to have been there and young enough to remember. I certainly am. The answer is no...the Macintosh was the machine that changed the game. NeXT/NeXTSTEP right after. Then Pixar in 1986.
I still seem to see MS with 90 some odd percent of the market. MS and Apple never really played the same game... except perhaps in the brief period while Jobs was gone from Apple.
He certainly is a more shrewd businessman than when younger. And he remains innovative today...but business success is also not the same as innovation.
Um. That's nothing to pay for a company. Of course, you wouldn't bother unless you intend to do something useful with that membership.
Because Google, Yahoo, etc are not real companies that exist today...do you bother to read or just blather on? None of those people I listed are either boomers or founders of recent startups.
Yes, old people are powerful. Incumbents usually are.
I couldn't care less if BR is successful or not to tell you the truth. I'm not all that invested in particular technology solutions. IF I did care (as you continue to claim...I think you protest too much), I'd go buy one now instead of attempting to FUD it to death.
Either it becomes mainstream or a mainstream HD solution will exist. Given that there are no OTHER viable HD movie rental/ownership mechanisms at the moment that fits the bill, I'm guessing that BR is the technology that fills the void, that prices WILL drop to mass market levels and that titles WILL be available.
The burden of proof is on the Cassandra wannabees to show why none of that will happen in due time. Due time being CLOSER TO CHRISTMAS. Not two flipping years from now.
Well in the short term at least this is not a good sign for BD.
http://trekmovie.com/2008/03/21/tos-...dvd/#more-1775
TOS Remastered Season 2 Coming To DVD Only
I know there are some here who don't care but ST has always been a major seller for any previous format. Something that really got the ball rolling.
So it remains to be seen what this means for the movies.
It sounds like the war goes on or at least the damage and fallout from it.
Also
From you :
" Um...you are supposedly old enough to have been there and young enough to remember. I certainly am. The answer is no...the Macintosh was the machine that changed the game. NeXT/NeXTSTEP right after. Then Pixar in 1986. "
My quote :
" Also I might argue that Steve Jobs did his best innovating when he was older. Most great innovators stand the test of time and don't only do one thing. Sure when he was young SJ invented Apple ( with other Steve ) and was around for the birth of the Macintosh. However what he did later was much more impressive. "
You'll notice the word Macintosh in there. I seem to recall he was more interested in the LISA.
Nextstep didn't amount to anything until later when it was incorporated into OS X. It looked nice though.
I'd be willing to bet he's still kicking himself for allowing idiots to take control of Apple. Who knows what might have happened if he could have used the same savvy he has now.
Pixar Yeah he is an amazing man.
The rest is your opinion only.
And here I thought we had a freindly ending to all of this and had moved on.
However in the late 90's they were writing Apple's obituary.
Steve Jobs had to do some heavy duty innovating to pull it's butt out of the wringer back in the late 90's. He did that by finally updating the OS which many a CEO had tried to do previously, made a suite of unbeatable programs for it, and later with the ipod and iphone really got things going. All this from a company that was near ruin. I'd call that pretty innovative.
Without these " Ideas " Apple would either be owned by another company by now or simply history. Kind of like he did it again. Reinvented Apple itself. I'd call that his greatist achievement.
Everyone was so sure it would go under ( you're supposed to be old enough to remember
No really I had let this go thinking we had agreed to disagree.
And for some one who says my age isn't important you bring it up more than I have!
http://trekmovie.com/2008/03/21/tos-...dvd/#more-1775
TOS Remastered Season 2 Coming To DVD Only
I know there are some here who don't care but ST has always been a major seller for any previous format. Something that really got the ball rolling.
I have a feeling that there's a lot of work to be done to remaster Season 1 for Blu-ray. The same for Season 2 assuming its HDDVD release was close at hand before the dominos started falling. I wouldn't be surprised if Paramount will wait for Season 3 and either release them all in Blu in quick succession, or as a boxed set for 700 Quatloos.
Since the movies have more mainstream appeal I bet they're waiting for better Blu-ray market penetration.
Just one Trekkie's opinion.
I kind of agree with vinea that 4th quarter 2008 should be an interesting time for BD. Player prices should be down, probably a $199 figure is unrealistic, $299 on sale might be more likely. By that time Universal and Paramount should have released some titles and hopefully all studios will be releasing all their major hit titles on both BD and DVD on the same day, like Disney did with Enchanted and Miramx with No Country for Old Men. Maybe even something will happen that make the Trekkies happy by then
I'll have my doubts on having high hopes for 4th quarter 2008. I would expect the bad US economy would exacerbate the HDM adoption plans/hopes for most except for the enthusiasts who has already committed. The luxury hobbies like the Home Theater and the HDM home viewing, a smaller niche market, at home will not be on everyone's must have list for the holidays. It's unfortunate, but this is the reality I can expect for the year end. Also, don't forget that the pricing of hardware and software is still very important for the mass adoption and I doubt that blu-ray will be there by the year end regardless of the dying US economy.
BTW, the 2nd season Star Trek would have to be completely reauthored for Blu-Ray even when the same video codec can be used. I'm sure all the interactive features have to be either re-written in java or be removed if internet interactivity was involved. Perhaps, Paramount is waiting for the profile 2.0 implementation to release the blu-ray version of star trek series.
There is a sense of great satisfaction that once 2.0 players are released all players will essentially be future proofed. It does give sony a leg up being that the PS3 is the only current internet capable player. I can not blame sony for that one bit. All these manufacturers new the spec wasn't finished. I have to ask myself why none of them didn't have an ethernet capable player from day one? It may have added $50 to their price at most, but if even one of them would have added it they probably would have had a better selling player.
My question is: is it possible to load a script on to a disk that will flash the firmware? I've seen it on DVD players why not Blu Ray players?
I'll have my doubts on having high hopes for 4th quarter 2008. I would expect the bad US economy would exacerbate the HDM adoption plans/hopes for most except for the enthusiasts who has already committed. The luxury hobbies like the Home Theater and the HDM home viewing, a smaller niche market, at home will not be on everyone's must have list for the holidays. It's unfortunate, but this is the reality I can expect for the year end. Also, don't forget that the pricing of hardware and software is still very important for the mass adoption and I doubt that blu-ray will be there by the year end regardless of the dying US economy.
...
It's a given that the economy is in bad shape, suffering from all the problems and mistakes of the last seven plus years, but that very fact might spur both BD hardware and media producers to some sales at a level that might not have occurred had the economy not tanked. As with most of this thread, everything at this point is speculation just with a different subject.
Back to 2.0 here.
My question is: is it possible to load a script on to a disk that will flash the firmware? I've seen it on DVD players why not Blu Ray players?
I updated the firmware on my BDP-S300 this way.
Sony sent me a update disc in the mail, but I misplaced it so I downloaded it from their site, burned it to a disc and ran the update (which took about 30 minutes).
The PS3 is so much easier and much faster (in all respects: disc loading/ejecting, waiting for a movie to load, updating, etc.)
I don't even use the S300 any more.
I updated the firmware on my BDP-S300 this way.
Sony sent me a update disc in the mail, but I misplaced it so I downloaded it from their site, burned it to a disc and ran the update (which took about 30 minutes).
Current players, besides the PS3, don't have the hardware to support 2.0, so it's not a matter of just updating firmware.
From you :
" Um...you are supposedly old enough to have been there and young enough to remember. I certainly am. The answer is no...the Macintosh was the machine that changed the game. NeXT/NeXTSTEP right after. Then Pixar in 1986. "
My quote :
" Also I might argue that Steve Jobs did his best innovating when he was older. Most great innovators stand the test of time and don't only do one thing. Sure when he was young SJ invented Apple ( with other Steve ) and was around for the birth of the Macintosh. However what he did later was much more impressive. "
You'll notice the word Macintosh in there. I seem to recall he was more interested in the LISA.
That would be difficult given he was forced out of the LISA development team in 1981 and why he co-opted the Macintosh from Raskin. "Was around" does not begin to describe Jobs' level of involvement with the Macintosh.
This is fairly basic Apple history. You recall incorrectly.
Nextstep didn't amount to anything until later when it was incorporated into OS X. It looked nice though.
Yeah...until it turned into OSX. Are you kidding me? No NeXTSTEP, no resurgent Apple and triumphant Jobs.
The rest is your opinion only.
It's just my opinion that Microsoft still has 90% market share or that Google, Yahoo, etc were built by GenXers and major technology companies?
Mmmkay.
And here I thought we had a freindly ending to all of this and had moved on.
However in the late 90's they were writing Apple's obituary.
So? What does that have to do with whether or not Jobs was likely more innovative in the 80s vs more business savvy in the 00s?
Steve Jobs had to do some heavy duty innovating to pull it's butt out of the wringer back in the late 90's. He did that by finally updating the OS which many a CEO had tried to do previously,
By largely replacing it with the one he built in the 80s.
Apple, is still an innovative company, especially given the iPhone. As I said, Jobs is one of the few that is still innovative at his age. However, I still believe (because MY memory still works AND I'm not so crochety I'll actually GOOGLE for information rather than depend on my fallible memory) that Jobs greatest innovations were in the 80s.
Everyone was so sure it would go under ( you're supposed to be old enough to remember
Sure. But you made the assertion that he was MORE innovative than when he was when younger, evidently based on incorrect information.
No really I had let this go thinking we had agreed to disagree.
And for some one who says my age isn't important you bring it up more than I have!
Only to point out it's weaknesses because you think it so important.
ObHD: So Star Trek - TOS won't be on HD in August. Sokay. $194 MSRP for Season One and it was like...nah. Star Trek has always been overpriced. At least its down to $100 at Amazon. Maybe if it goes fire sale I'll pick it up for the DVD side.
While I would have preferred a format that respected its customers enough not to inflict useless DRM on them, a format like that wasn't in the running.
So breaking the DRM is, unfortunately, the next best thing.
It's a given that the economy is in bad shape, suffering from all the problems and mistakes of the last seven plus years, but that very fact might spur both BD hardware and media producers to some sales at a level that might not have occurred had the economy not tanked. As with most of this thread, everything at this point is speculation just with a different subject.
Two points:
1) Folks feel that the economy will be better in 2009 for a variety of reasons (new leadership, past short recessions, etc...saw this on CNN video somewhere). Whether that's actually going to be true or not remains to be seen BUT if the consumers remain hopeful of 2009 then Christmas 2008 may not be as horrid as folks expect.
2) DVD adoption occured during the dot bomb and the 2000's recession. Growth did not appear to falter evenn through the peak although that recession WAS relatively mild if long lived.
2) DVD adoption occured during the dot bomb and the 2000's recession. Growth did not appear to falter evenn through the peak although that recession WAS relatively mild if long lived.
What was the original cost of a DVD, and at what point in it's life did we begin to enjoy $15.99 new-release sales with regular pricing of $19.99?
That would be difficult given he was forced out of the LISA development team in 1981 and why he co-opted the Macintosh from Raskin. "Was around" does not begin to describe Jobs' level of involvement with the Macintosh.
This is fairly basic Apple history. You recall incorrectly.
Yeah...until it turned into OSX. Are you kidding me? No NeXTSTEP, no resurgent Apple and triumphant Jobs.
It's just my opinion that Microsoft still has 90% market share or that Google, Yahoo, etc were built by GenXers and major technology companies?
Mmmkay.
So? What does that have to do with whether or not Jobs was likely more innovative in the 80s vs more business savvy in the 00s?
By largely replacing it with the one he built in the 80s.
Apple, is still an innovative company, especially given the iPhone. As I said, Jobs is one of the few that is still innovative at his age. However, I still believe (because MY memory still works AND I'm not so crochety I'll actually GOOGLE for information rather than depend on my fallible memory) that Jobs greatest innovations were in the 80s.
Sure. But you made the assertion that he was MORE innovative than when he was when younger, evidently based on incorrect information.
Only to point out it's weaknesses because you think it so important.
ObHD: So Star Trek - TOS won't be on HD in August. Sokay. $194 MSRP for Season One and it was like...nah. Star Trek has always been overpriced. At least its down to $100 at Amazon. Maybe if it goes fire sale I'll pick it up for the DVD side.
My statement :
" Nextstep didn't amount to anything until later when it was incorporated into OS X. It looked nice though. "
Your statement :
" Yeah...until it turned into OSX. Are you kidding me? No NeXTSTEP, no resurgent Apple and triumphant Jobs. "
I guess you can't even read?
" ObHD: So Star Trek - TOS won't be on HD in August. Sokay. $194 MSRP for Season One and it was like...nah. Star Trek has always been overpriced. At least its down to $100 at Amazon. Maybe if it goes fire sale I'll pick it up for the DVD side. "
This is just ignoring the obvious.
Also I said SJ was more interested in the LISA. As Wikipedia says it was in some ways a more advanced computer than the Macintosh. How does the fact that he was forced out of the program change any of that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Lisa
" The Lisa was a more advanced system than the Macintosh in many respects, such as its inclusion of protected memory, cooperative multitasking, a generally more sophisticated hard disk based operating system, a built-in screensaver, an advanced calculator with a paper tape and RPN, support for up to 2 megabytes of RAM memory, expansion slots, and a larger higher resolution display. It would be many years before many of those features were implemented on the Macintosh platform. Protected memory, for instance, did not arrive until the Mac OS X operating system was released in 2001. The Macintosh, however, featured a faster 68000 processor (7.89 MHz) and sound. The complexity of the Lisa operating system and its programs taxed the 5 MHz Motorola 68000 microprocessor so that the system felt sluggish, particularly when scrolling in documents. Despite its slow processor, an office productivity study awarded the Lisa an A, the Macintosh a B, and the IBM PC a C. "
By the way the inventors of " Yahoo " were born in 1966 and 1968. While not offically Baby boomers they are damn close and not youngsters.
As I've said though there's not anything wrong with being young and brite. You're the one who seems to have a lot of issues with old vs. young!
As it seems all you do is like to argue and ignore what the other person is saying I'm done with you. You can't have a discussion with someone who's so busy trying to think of what they're going to say next to listen to the other side. That's obvious since you don't even read my posts correctly or just see what you want to see.
You sir are a moron or a troll. I can't really tell which.
Lets stay on topic folks this is the Blu Ray thread.
Usually I'd agree, but since we about 1800 posts into this thread I could use a different topic already.
Usually I'd agree, but since we about 1800 posts into this thread I could use a different topic already.
Yeah.. Then start a new one, but don't take over an existing thread. Thats why we have posting guidelines.
My statement :
" Nextstep didn't amount to anything until later when it was incorporated into OS X. It looked nice though. "
Your statement :
" Yeah...until it turned into OSX. Are you kidding me? No NeXTSTEP, no resurgent Apple and triumphant Jobs. "
I guess you can't even read?
Yes, but you apparently can't reason. How do you equate "didn't amount to anything" with "turns into OSX"? I was restating your absurdity. Hence the "Are you kidding me?".
"Didn't amount to anything" might apply to BeOS. It does NOT apply to NeXTSTEP which fulfilled its name quite well. No NeXTSTEP and you might have seen Gassee instead of Jobs at the helm and truly no more Apple.
" ObHD: So Star Trek - TOS won't be on HD in August. Sokay. $194 MSRP for Season One and it was like...nah. Star Trek has always been overpriced. At least its down to $100 at Amazon. Maybe if it goes fire sale I'll pick it up for the DVD side. "
This is just ignoring the obvious.
The obvious that $200 for a single season is pricing to just the ultimate die hard fans? Of the OLD series? A tiny subset of a middling fandom (compared to say Harry Potter)?
Therefore very unlikely to have much impact on the adoption of a new mainstream format?
Also I said SJ was more interested in the LISA. As Wikipedia says it was in some ways a more advanced computer than the Macintosh. How does the fact that he was forced out of the program change any of that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Lisa
Having used LISAs professionally (in 1989) they were okay. More advanced than the Macintosh? Perhaps. More game changing? No. Obviously.
Jobs was driven from the LISA team for trying to build the Macintosh (in his usual dictatorial manner) which didn't quite align with the goals. Neither did the final machine at its hyper inflated price either but I digress.
By the way the inventors of " Yahoo " were born in 1966 and 1968. While not offically Baby boomers they are damn close and not youngsters.
Not officially boomers. Or boomers in terms of life experiences. So...they aren't boomers. Late boomers '63-'64 don't behave much like even early 2nd cohort boomers ('55-'56) to which group they do officially belong given they grew up in the 80s rather than 70s.
The 80s were the start of the generational gap between boomers and everyone that followed. You see a mix of millenial behavior in early GenX (especially among geeks) that weren't possible in the 70s.
Computer game playing is one significant example.
As I've said though there's not anything wrong with being young and brite. You're the one who seems to have a lot of issues with old vs. young!
No, I just had a problem with your assertion that boomers drive (all/most) change. Boomers will likely NOT drive the transition from DVD to Blu-Ray if it occurs DESPITE being one of the largest age groups and enjoys the most buying power today.
The age group most likely to drive Blu-Ray mainstream adoption are 18-24 males...and they have been given they've been buying PS3s.
As it seems all you do is like to argue and ignore what the other person is saying I'm done with you. You can't have a discussion with someone who's so busy trying to think of what they're going to say next to listen to the other side. That's obvious since you don't even read my posts correctly or just see what you want to see.
You sir are a moron or a troll. I can't really tell which.
Nice name calling. Evidently age and witty repartee or graceful withdrawal are not synonymous either.
Punk. Lol...I couldn't resist. Sorry.
Lets stay on topic folks this is the Blu Ray thread.
We're on topic. You just have to follow along with the silliness. We're debating which demographic is the most likely to lead the change from DVD to Blu Ray should it occur (with some detour into Apple history which is likely okay given its AppleInsider).
He believes it is the same generation that supported the 8 track format as a mainstream format.
I believe its the generation currently buying PS3s.
There is some individual overlap...but not a whole lot.
Yes, but you apparently can't reason. How do you equate "didn't amount to anything" with "turns into OSX"? I was restating your absurdity. Hence the "Are you kidding me?".
"Didn't amount to anything" might apply to BeOS. It does NOT apply to NeXTSTEP which fulfilled its name quite well. No NeXTSTEP and you might have seen Gassee instead of Jobs at the helm and truly no more Apple.
The obvious that $200 for a single season is pricing to just the ultimate die hard fans? Of the OLD series? A tiny subset of a middling fandom (compared to say Harry Potter)?
Therefore very unlikely to have much impact on the adoption of a new mainstream format?
Having used LISAs professionally (in 1989) they were okay. More advanced than the Macintosh? Perhaps. More game changing? No. Obviously.
Jobs was driven from the LISA team for trying to build the Macintosh (in his usual dictatorial manner) which didn't quite align with the goals. Neither did the final machine at its hyper inflated price either but I digress.
Not officially boomers. Or boomers in terms of life experiences. So...they aren't boomers. Late boomers '63-'64 don't behave much like even early 2nd cohort boomers ('55-'56) to which group they do officially belong given they grew up in the 80s rather than 70s.
The 80s were the start of the generational gap between boomers and everyone that followed. You see a mix of millenial behavior in early GenX (especially among geeks) that weren't possible in the 70s.
Computer game playing is one significant example.
No, I just had a problem with your assertion that boomers drive (all/most) change. Boomers will likely NOT drive the transition from DVD to Blu-Ray if it occurs DESPITE being one of the largest age groups and enjoys the most buying power today.
The age group most likely to drive Blu-Ray mainstream adoption are 18-24 males...and they have been given they've been buying PS3s.
Nice name calling. Evidently age and witty repartee or graceful withdrawal are not synonymous either.
Punk. Lol...I couldn't resist. Sorry.
I paid $ 129.00 for season 1.
Anyone would be a fool to pay full price.
As for Nextstep I guees you can't read the word " until " in my sentence.
As for name calling what do you call " because MY memory still works AND I'm not so crochety I'll actually GOOGLE for information rather than depend on my fallible memory) "
My thinking is BR will have an uphill battle now. People are still in love with DVD and it's price ( both players and discs ). Young people don't usually have a lot of money to spend so if you assertion is right BR is doomed as long as they keep the price up.
But as you said it's not really important to you. It's you getting the last word that is.
I paid $ 129.00 for season 1.
Still pretty expensive for one season. Still not a mainstream kinda buy that's going to drive massive sales or prevent massive sales.
As for Nextstep I guees you can't read the word " until " in my sentence.
Then your objection of NeXTSTEP as a major Jobs contribution makes no sense since it was innovative (IB and other UI aspects) and was THE foundation for the best and most widely used unix desktop on the market (OS X).
As for name calling what do you call " because MY memory still works AND I'm not so crochety I'll actually GOOGLE for information rather than depend on my fallible memory) "
If that's descriptive of a participant, hey...shoe, fit, etc. Did you in fact look at Jobs' involvement with the Mac? No. How could anyone think that Jobs had LESS to do with the Mac than the LISA?
My thinking is BR will have an uphill battle now. People are still in love with DVD and it's price ( both players and discs ). Young people don't usually have a lot of money to spend so if you assertion is right BR is doomed as long as they keep the price up.
Which is why there are millions of PSPs, NDS, 360s and PS3s sold. None of these are inexpensive. But obviously the 18-24 male demographic has no disposable income. Because you say so. Based on your vast experience. As a former TV sales guy. In the 80s.
Note that the 'definitely interested' iPhone demographic is 15-24, 32% 24-34 and 31% 35-49.
50+? 6%.
http://www.srgnet.com/pdf/iPhoneBuye...ysisJune07.pdf
Boomers are not the target demographic for cool new technologies even when you count the under 50 set of which some arguably belong to the "Generation Jones" trasnition years.
But as you said it's not really important to you. It's you getting the last word that is.
LOL...I'm not the one declaring "done" and then coming back for another helping. Posture much? How about being done and staying done?