Not sure if that was an actual question or just be sarcastic lol but the answer is no.
I was just trying to make a point.
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Yes, they do. So do Sony Ericsson.
They don't update every six months. As far as I can tell the last update to Symbian was in March 2007.
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Software won't solve all of the shortcomings of which there are many.
That's a pretty subjective statement. And you still ignore the fact that Apple has said it left some things off until they feel they can make it work within the way they want the phone to function. In the long run that philosophy could lead to a much better phone than one that stuffs all the features in right now irregardless of how it impacts its actual functionality.
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Really, I don't think it's that far fetched to predict Apple will have more models out relatively soon and then pick up pace from then on in to match other phone companies.
Apple's not following what other phone companies are doing. If you think this you miss the whole point of Apple.
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Personally, I think it would be sensible to at least wait until the SDK is out in February if you're not happy with the glacial pace of software updates.
What are you are comparing this to? The last major update to Symbian was in March. The update before that was June 2006, before that early 2005.
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But that kind of shows that the existing phone doesn't work well in China. It's a black market craze, not a product for the masses, and Apple have a way to go to turn a US product into a European or Chinese product.
You must not have read the article. The Chinese language isn't even on the iPhone. They so badly want to use it that they are hacking Chinese into the phone. Only parts of the phone work in Chinese and they are arduously adding Chinese to all of the iPhone's apps.
They don't update every six months. As far as I can tell the last update to Symbian was in March 2007.
You're confusing major Symbian updates with what the SE Update service does. SE Update is like Apple's Software Update service. There's usually minor updates every few months particularly just after release. Early OS9 phones were buggy as hell. And sometimes they release software for free alongside firmware updates - the aforementioned home screen change and there's been changes to the PC Suite and theme design software.
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
That's a pretty subjective statement.
How is it subjective? There definitely ARE features missing. How can you even deny that?
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
And you still ignore the fact that Apple has said it left some things off until they feel they can make it work within the way they want the phone to function.
When have they said that? They've said that they will be adding more features over time. They've never that I know of admitted some features are missing. That would be quite an admission.
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
In the long run that philosophy could lead to a much better phone than one that stuffs all the features in right now irregardless of how it impacts its actual functionality.
I was thinking about a function I use 3-5 times a day that the iPhone does badly.
Here's how you silence an incoming call or send it to voicemail on an iPhone...
"...press the sleep/wake button once for silence and twice to send to voicemail..."
Are they nucking futz? The sleep/wake button???
Why not have a button on the screen you click that says "silence ringer", or use the actual "silence ringer" button on the side of the phone? And also a button on screen for "send to voicemail"
That's what I have on my SE phone's touch screen.
Oh sorry, I forgot, Apple reckon existing phones are too complex.
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
Apple's not following what other phone companies are doing. If you think this you miss the whole point of Apple.
Perhaps they should. Then they wouldn't have daft interface oddities like the above.
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
What are you are comparing this to? The last major update to Symbian was in March. The update before that was June 2006, before that early 2005.
So, slightly more regular as OSX major updates then?
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
You must not have read the article. The Chinese language isn't even on the iPhone. They so badly want to use it that they are hacking Chinese into the phone. Only parts of the phone work in Chinese and they are arduously adding Chinese to all of the iPhone's apps.
I did read it. If you note, they state in the article that Chinese people text a lot and the iPhone isn't very good at that and that was one of the main complaints with it for the Chinese market. Guess what, we have similar complaints about a US centric device here too.
You're confusing major Symbian updates with what the SE Update service does. SE Update is like Apple's Software Update service.
I'm talking about major OS updates. Not simply firmware updates. The iPhone has had 3 of those that have included app changes and some minor functionality changes.
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Early OS9 phones were buggy as hell.
Why do you want Apple to rush out a buggy OS update.
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Here's how you silence an incoming call or send it to voicemail on an iPhone...
You're making way too big a deal of this. When a call comes in there is a green answer button and a red decline button. Pressing decline will also stop the call and send it to voice mail.
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If you note, they state in the article that Chinese people text a lot and the iPhone isn't very good at that and that was one of the main complaints with it for the Chinese market.
The article was saying texting is difficult because it is not in Chinese. Not because of the app itself. They devised a complicated work around so they could text in Chinese.
I'm talking about major OS updates. Not simply firmware updates. The iPhone has had 3 of those that have included app changes and some minor functionality changes.
Seems like minor changes to me. Or if you consider those major, so were the firmware updates on my SE phone.
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
Why do you want Apple to rush out a buggy OS update.
Their first version was pretty buggy, certainly no more so that some of the initial SE releases.
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
You're making way too big a deal of this. When a call comes in there is a green answer button and a red decline button. Pressing decline will also stop the call and send it to voice mail.
No, that's not the function both I and Apple's tutorial describe. The point behind silencing a ring is that you're pretending you're not in reach of your phone, you just mute the ringer but let it ring anyway. Immediately sending someone to voicemail is rude and it tells them you're near your phone but you've explicitly selected to not talk to them. IME, they'll keep ringing you and keep annoying you.
The red/green buttons are great UI design even if it's really just obvious. Pressing sleep/wake once or twice is frankly as bizarre as not having a camera shutter button.
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
The article was saying texting is difficult because it is not in Chinese. Not because of the app itself. They devised a complicated work around so they could text in Chinese.
"Text messaging is more important to Chinese than to American cellphone users, partly because mobile phones in China don't have automated voicemail."
Seems like minor changes to me. Or if you consider those major, so were the firmware updates on my SE phone.
Yes they are minor changes. I'm trying to show you that you unrealistically expect Apple to make a major OS update within 6 months of the phones release. When no one else does this.
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Their first version was pretty buggy, certainly no more so that some of the initial SE releases.
The iPhone is still using the first version.
I bought the iPhone its second week on sale. Everything worked fine. The only real problem was that Safari would crash all the time. Other people had their quibbles about little things but the software all functioned fine.
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Pressing sleep/wake once or twice is frankly as bizarre as not having a camera shutter button.
There is a mechanical button for turning off the ringer. So you don't have to deal with being sneaky or appearing rude. But whatever you are searching for things to complain about.
I assume you are talking about a physical camera button. Why does it absolutely need that?
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"Text messaging is more important to Chinese than to American cellphone users, partly because mobile phones in China don't have automated voicemail."
The point you miss is that people in China are not supposed to be using the iPhone in the first place. So you cannot complain that it does not satisfy their needs, it doesn't have Chinese characters yet.
"...press the sleep/wake button once for silence and twice to send to voicemail..."
Are they nucking futz? The sleep/wake button???
Why not have a button on the screen you click that says "silence ringer", or use the actual "silence ringer" button on the side of the phone? And also a button on screen for "send to voicemail"
That's what I have on my SE phone's touch screen.
Oh sorry, I forgot, Apple reckon existing phones are too complex.
Just curious, if silence ringer is on the touchscreen and the screen/phone is locked don't you have to go through a couple of extra steps to get to that button. Regardless of whether there is a screen button to do it, why wouldn't you want the option to just press and external button to do it?
Yes they are minor changes. I'm trying to show you that you unrealistically expect Apple to make a major OS update within 6 months of the phones release. When no one else does this.
I DON'T. I expect them to add features through the life of the phone contract like they said they would do. So far they've added an iTunes store, Starbucks (US only) and internationalisation. None of which are anything to shout about.
If the rumour for 1.1.3 is correct, it adds a crippled disk mode and voice memos, both of which most smartphones have as standard anyway. Consider me underwhelmed again.
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
The iPhone is still using the first version.
It's not. There was quite a major architectural change between 1.0 and 1.1 even if it didn't show on the outside.
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
I bought the iPhone its second week on sale. Everything worked fine. The only real problem was that Safari would crash all the time. Other people had their quibbles about little things but the software all functioned fine.
As I said, no worse than some 1.0 releases from other phone manufacturers. The difference being most other phones have more features out of the box and they don't add them later.
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
There is a mechanical button for turning off the ringer. So you don't have to deal with being sneaky or appearing rude. But whatever you are searching for things to complain about.
Again, that's not the function I'm describing. That permanently disables the ringer until you re-enable it. The sleep/wake button press does a 'silence this call only' thing in a non-intuitive manner. You can't honestly be defending that?
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
I assume you are talking about a physical camera button. Why does it absolutely need that?
Do you know of a camera that doesn't have one? I think it does absolutely need one instead of you having to take a hand off the phone to tap the screen.
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
The point you miss is that people in China are not supposed to be using the iPhone in the first place. So you cannot complain that it does not satisfy their needs, it doesn't have Chinese characters yet.
No I didn't miss that. That was indeed my point. If Apple are to conquer a non-US market, they need a non-US device.
As another example, Apple keyboards in the UK put the @ and " symbols in the same place as the US keyboards. On UK PC and typewriter keyboards, they're switched. It's bizarre and throws off switchers or the Mac Mini Bring Your Own Keyboard switchers. I've no idea why Apple alone do not us a UK keyboard layout. I've had many an argument with PC people already convinced that Apple are arrogant for that alone!
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Originally Posted by darngooddesign
Just curious, if silence ringer is on the touchscreen and the screen/phone is locked don't you have to go through a couple of extra steps to get to that button. Regardless of whether there is a screen button to do it, why wouldn't you want the option to just press and external button to do it?
The iPhone unlocks itself to answer the call so there are no extra steps. My point about the external button is they're using the sleep/wake button to silence the ringer instead of the existing silence ringer switch. That just strikes me as bad design. It's surely not good design if you need a tutorial on apple.com to discover that.
The iPhone unlocks itself to answer the call so there are no extra steps. My point about the external button is they're using the sleep/wake button to silence the ringer instead of the existing silence ringer switch. That just strikes me as bad design. It's surely not good design if you need a tutorial on apple.com to discover that.
I don't know about your one, but flipping my switch to silent silences the ringer whether the phone is locked or not. I've never had a real smartphone, but I didn't need a tutorial to figure that out. It just made sense to flip the switch to silent to silence the ringer. I didn't know about the sleep wake thing until I saw the tutorial, but that's going to be true for any multifunction button that isn't labeled. I'd rather see it explained in a tutorial then have the phone cluttered with many single-function buttons. The upshot being that I don't have a bunch of button labels to tell me something very easy to remember.
Of course there are extra steps. You have to swipe to unlock and then press the silence button; why not just flip the switch to silent. This is something you can do without even looking at the phone, or even taking it out of your pocket (that's even more true about the sleep/wake button).
I'd imagine they didn't put silent or decline button on the locked screen because you might accidentally press it while pulling the phone out of your pocket. Its much harder to accidentally swipe your finger across the screen. So the phone does not unlock when a call comes in, the screen is still locked and in need of a swipe action to answer the call.
With the phone locked, here would have to be a swipe to silence action in addition to the swipe to answer. Then you would also have to have a swipe to send to vm button. That's a whole lot of screen real estate that can be replaced with pressing, or double pressing a single physical button, or just flipping the silent ringer switch.
The only place I could see having a silence ringer button would be on the incoming call screen when the phone is unlocked, but at least there is already the send to vm button called decline.
Which SE do you have? I'm not familiar with the Symbian interface so maybe they handle in a better manner, or just in one that makes more sense to you.
I DON'T. I expect them to add features through the life of the phone contract like they said they would do.
We are only 6 months into the life of the contract. I'm sure Apple will make good within the next 18 months.
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It's not. There was quite a major architectural change between 1.0 and 1.1 even if it didn't show on the outside.
The .1 upgrade shored up stability but isn't as though they changed the kernal. Dramatic changes will come with version 2.
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As I said, no worse than some 1.0 releases from other phone manufacturers.
You are the one who said other OS upgrades are buggy, not me.
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Again, that's not the function I'm describing. The sleep/wake button press does a 'silence this call only' thing in a non-intuitive manner.
There are three ways to disable the ringer. Four if you count turning off the phone. For some strange reason you want to stay fixated on this one, ignoring all the other options.
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Do you know of a camera that doesn't have one? I think it does absolutely need one instead of you having to take a hand off the phone to tap the screen.
You don't really have to make the whole tapping moiton it takes a picture when you lift your finger from the button. You can argue the inconvenience of looking at where you place your finger before you can take the pic. Generally you look at what button you are touching with a mechanical button. I've taken over a thousand pictures on my iPhone it does take some getting used to but its not as big a problem as you want to make it sound.
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No I didn't miss that. That was indeed my point. If Apple are to conquer a non-US market, they need a non-US device.
If this is true then why are people in China going through all the trouble they are going through to use the iPhone?
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I've had many an argument with PC people already convinced that Apple are arrogant for that alone!
That's a loosing argument as Apple has no shortage of hubris.
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My point about the external button is they're using the sleep/wake button to silence the ringer instead of the existing silence ringer switch.
The existing ringer switch can turn off the ringer. The sleep/wake button is just another option.
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Consider me underwhelmed again.
Fortunate for you that their are a myriad of phone choices.
The interesting thing about this is that if Sony/Ericsson or Nokia offered $1000 phone in the US. I cannot see many people using very much of the finite time or energy we have in life to complain. We would either buy it or not.
We are only 6 months into the life of the contract. I'm sure Apple will make good within the next 18 months.
They're taking their time about it, that's all.
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
There are three ways to disable the ringer. Four if you count turning off the phone. For some strange reason you want to stay fixated on this one, ignoring all the other options.
Because the other options do not silence the ringer for that call only, which is a function I use many times a day. On the iPhone you press the sleep/wake button to do it, which is not intuitive, on my SE P910, the phone rings, I get the option to Accept, Decline, Mute the ringer for that call or send to voicemail all on the screen. It's obvious. It's immediately unlocked, I either press the onscreen button or roll the side dial to select the option and click it in. ie. it's a one handed, one button operation as are most operation under UIQ phones. No hunting for buttons or screen swipes.
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
You don't really have to make the whole tapping moiton it takes a picture when you lift your finger from the button. You can argue the inconvenience of looking at where you place your finger before you can take the pic. Generally you look at what button you are touching with a mechanical button. I've taken over a thousand pictures on my iPhone it does take some getting used to but its not as big a problem as you want to make it sound.
If you say so. I still think it's counter intuitive and I never look at which button I'm pressing on a camera if the manufacturer has placed it correctly.
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Originally Posted by TenoBell
The interesting thing about this is that if Sony/Ericsson or Nokia offered $1000 phone in the US. I cannot see many people using very much of the finite time or energy we have in life to complain. We would either buy it or not.
You've never been on esato.com ?
I'm an Apple fan. I want them to do well. But like many of their products recently I think they're only 50% there. AppleTV, AirportExtreme, the new iMac, all a bit so-so, though at least they've fixed the main complaint with the AirportExtreme - lack of gigabit - now fix TimeMachine and add audio-out.
I'm also an SE UIQ phone fan and their products have been 50% there too recently. The P990 was terrible - I sent it back after a month and kept using my P910. Nice hardware, bug ridden software and not enough ram. They've mostly fixed that issue with the P1i, but then added a silly blackberry style keypad. Aaarrrgh! The P5i rumours however seem to have SE back on the right track and aiming right back at Apple. The UIQ guys aren't going to relinquish their lead on touchscreen interfaces without a fight.
Because the other options do not silence the ringer for that call only, which is a function I use many times a day. On the iPhone you press the sleep/wake button to do it, which is not intuitive, on my SE P910, the phone rings, I get the option to Accept, Decline, Mute the ringer for that call or send to voicemail all on the screen. It's obvious. It's immediately unlocked, I either press the onscreen button or roll the side dial to select the option and click it in. ie. it's a one handed, one button operation as are most operation under UIQ phones. No hunting for buttons or screen swipes.
If it unlocks right away how do they protect you from accidentally pressing a button pulling it out of your pocket? If you have to control what part of the phone you touch, aka anything but the screen, when removing it from your pocket that is as imperfect a solution as what you object to on the iPhone especially when the edges of the screen are not clearly defined.
If you object to them making you use the "sleep/wake" button to silence the ring would it make you feel any better if they had called it the "silence ringer/send to voicemail/sleep/wake" button or something arbitrary like the "action" button? Seems like the biggest objection is that they didn't include "silence ringer" in the name of the button. Or do you have an objection to using an external button to accomplish a task that should have only been accomplished with an on-screen button.
If it unlocks right away how do they protect you from accidentally pressing a button pulling it out of your pocket?
You have to push the jog dial in to activate the option. It's kind of the opposite of the iPhone in that you can't push anything on that without unlocking whereas on UIQ, it's unlocked and you can select the option but have to confirm by clicking the physical jog dial. Or you can set it to answer on any button without unlocking like most other phones instead of just the answer button.
I've had it accidently go off a few times though when I've forgot to lock the phone before putting it in my pocket.
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Originally Posted by darngooddesign
If you have to control what part of the phone you touch, aka anything but the screen, when removing it from your pocket that is as imperfect a solution as what you object to on the iPhone especially when the edges of the screen are not clearly defined.
Well, you don't have to be careful. The P series phones have defined edges as the screen is recessed into the phone - stops scratches.
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Originally Posted by darngooddesign
If you object to them making you use the "sleep/wake" button to silence the ring would it make you feel any better if they had called it the "silence ringer/send to voicemail/sleep/wake" button or something arbitrary like the "action" button?
So what would you call the existing "silence ringer" switch if you added "silence ringer" to the sleep/wake button???
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Originally Posted by darngooddesign
Seems like the biggest objection is that they didn't include "silence ringer" in the name of the button. Or do you have an objection to using an external button to accomplish a task that should have only been accomplished with an on-screen button.
No that's not my 'biggest objection', which overstates how I feel about it as a phrase. My 'biggest objection' is they've two buttons to silence the ringer and the second is not the obvious one. But yes, if they'd just put on screen buttons instead of misappropriating the wrong physical button it'd make more sense.
It'd also make more sense if they didn't have a silence ringer switch either and that was a function of the UI. I mean, why do they have a physical ringer switch but a graphical lock slider? How does one make sense but not the other?
Anyway, it was just one example of where I think it's inconsistent. There are many. Apple aren't alone in sometimes odd design.
So what would you call the existing "silence ringer" switch if you added "silence ringer" to the sleep/wake button???
One is the silence switch and the other is the silence button... duh!!!
I think this is just a matter of what you are used to. You're used to the SE system so it seems convoluted to you. I, on the other hand, aren't so it makes sense to me. Kind of like the keyboard; people who are used to physical keyboards have a harder time acclimating to the touch keyboard.
I do agree that with the phone unlocked on an incoming call there should be a silence ringer button next to the decline-send to vm button.
So i take it that most of you have read the other article now on Apple 2 new iphones for 2008. (just like I said might i add) I might get a chance to see some pics of one of them this week so will do my best to scrounge what I can.
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Not sure if that was an actual question or just be sarcastic lol but the answer is no.
I was just trying to make a point.
Yes, they do. So do Sony Ericsson.
They don't update every six months. As far as I can tell the last update to Symbian was in March 2007.
Software won't solve all of the shortcomings of which there are many.
That's a pretty subjective statement. And you still ignore the fact that Apple has said it left some things off until they feel they can make it work within the way they want the phone to function. In the long run that philosophy could lead to a much better phone than one that stuffs all the features in right now irregardless of how it impacts its actual functionality.
Really, I don't think it's that far fetched to predict Apple will have more models out relatively soon and then pick up pace from then on in to match other phone companies.
Apple's not following what other phone companies are doing. If you think this you miss the whole point of Apple.
Personally, I think it would be sensible to at least wait until the SDK is out in February if you're not happy with the glacial pace of software updates.
What are you are comparing this to? The last major update to Symbian was in March. The update before that was June 2006, before that early 2005.
But that kind of shows that the existing phone doesn't work well in China. It's a black market craze, not a product for the masses, and Apple have a way to go to turn a US product into a European or Chinese product.
You must not have read the article. The Chinese language isn't even on the iPhone. They so badly want to use it that they are hacking Chinese into the phone. Only parts of the phone work in Chinese and they are arduously adding Chinese to all of the iPhone's apps.
They don't update every six months. As far as I can tell the last update to Symbian was in March 2007.
You're confusing major Symbian updates with what the SE Update service does. SE Update is like Apple's Software Update service. There's usually minor updates every few months particularly just after release. Early OS9 phones were buggy as hell. And sometimes they release software for free alongside firmware updates - the aforementioned home screen change and there's been changes to the PC Suite and theme design software.
That's a pretty subjective statement.
How is it subjective? There definitely ARE features missing. How can you even deny that?
And you still ignore the fact that Apple has said it left some things off until they feel they can make it work within the way they want the phone to function.
When have they said that? They've said that they will be adding more features over time. They've never that I know of admitted some features are missing. That would be quite an admission.
In the long run that philosophy could lead to a much better phone than one that stuffs all the features in right now irregardless of how it impacts its actual functionality.
I was thinking about a function I use 3-5 times a day that the iPhone does badly.
Here's how you silence an incoming call or send it to voicemail on an iPhone...
http://www.apple.com/iphone/?movie=a
"...press the sleep/wake button once for silence and twice to send to voicemail..."
Are they nucking futz? The sleep/wake button???
Why not have a button on the screen you click that says "silence ringer", or use the actual "silence ringer" button on the side of the phone? And also a button on screen for "send to voicemail"
That's what I have on my SE phone's touch screen.
Oh sorry, I forgot, Apple reckon existing phones are too complex.
Apple's not following what other phone companies are doing. If you think this you miss the whole point of Apple.
Perhaps they should. Then they wouldn't have daft interface oddities like the above.
What are you are comparing this to? The last major update to Symbian was in March. The update before that was June 2006, before that early 2005.
So, slightly more regular as OSX major updates then?
You must not have read the article. The Chinese language isn't even on the iPhone. They so badly want to use it that they are hacking Chinese into the phone. Only parts of the phone work in Chinese and they are arduously adding Chinese to all of the iPhone's apps.
I did read it. If you note, they state in the article that Chinese people text a lot and the iPhone isn't very good at that and that was one of the main complaints with it for the Chinese market. Guess what, we have similar complaints about a US centric device here too.
You're confusing major Symbian updates with what the SE Update service does. SE Update is like Apple's Software Update service.
I'm talking about major OS updates. Not simply firmware updates. The iPhone has had 3 of those that have included app changes and some minor functionality changes.
Early OS9 phones were buggy as hell.
Why do you want Apple to rush out a buggy OS update.
Here's how you silence an incoming call or send it to voicemail on an iPhone...
You're making way too big a deal of this. When a call comes in there is a green answer button and a red decline button. Pressing decline will also stop the call and send it to voice mail.
If you note, they state in the article that Chinese people text a lot and the iPhone isn't very good at that and that was one of the main complaints with it for the Chinese market.
The article was saying texting is difficult because it is not in Chinese. Not because of the app itself. They devised a complicated work around so they could text in Chinese.
I'm talking about major OS updates. Not simply firmware updates. The iPhone has had 3 of those that have included app changes and some minor functionality changes.
Seems like minor changes to me. Or if you consider those major, so were the firmware updates on my SE phone.
Why do you want Apple to rush out a buggy OS update.
Their first version was pretty buggy, certainly no more so that some of the initial SE releases.
You're making way too big a deal of this. When a call comes in there is a green answer button and a red decline button. Pressing decline will also stop the call and send it to voice mail.
No, that's not the function both I and Apple's tutorial describe. The point behind silencing a ring is that you're pretending you're not in reach of your phone, you just mute the ringer but let it ring anyway. Immediately sending someone to voicemail is rude and it tells them you're near your phone but you've explicitly selected to not talk to them. IME, they'll keep ringing you and keep annoying you.
The red/green buttons are great UI design even if it's really just obvious. Pressing sleep/wake once or twice is frankly as bizarre as not having a camera shutter button.
The article was saying texting is difficult because it is not in Chinese. Not because of the app itself. They devised a complicated work around so they could text in Chinese.
"Text messaging is more important to Chinese than to American cellphone users, partly because mobile phones in China don't have automated voicemail."
Seems like minor changes to me. Or if you consider those major, so were the firmware updates on my SE phone.
Yes they are minor changes. I'm trying to show you that you unrealistically expect Apple to make a major OS update within 6 months of the phones release. When no one else does this.
Their first version was pretty buggy, certainly no more so that some of the initial SE releases.
The iPhone is still using the first version.
I bought the iPhone its second week on sale. Everything worked fine. The only real problem was that Safari would crash all the time. Other people had their quibbles about little things but the software all functioned fine.
Pressing sleep/wake once or twice is frankly as bizarre as not having a camera shutter button.
There is a mechanical button for turning off the ringer. So you don't have to deal with being sneaky or appearing rude. But whatever you are searching for things to complain about.
I assume you are talking about a physical camera button. Why does it absolutely need that?
"Text messaging is more important to Chinese than to American cellphone users, partly because mobile phones in China don't have automated voicemail."
The point you miss is that people in China are not supposed to be using the iPhone in the first place. So you cannot complain that it does not satisfy their needs, it doesn't have Chinese characters yet.
"...press the sleep/wake button once for silence and twice to send to voicemail..."
Are they nucking futz? The sleep/wake button???
Why not have a button on the screen you click that says "silence ringer", or use the actual "silence ringer" button on the side of the phone? And also a button on screen for "send to voicemail"
That's what I have on my SE phone's touch screen.
Oh sorry, I forgot, Apple reckon existing phones are too complex.
Just curious, if silence ringer is on the touchscreen and the screen/phone is locked don't you have to go through a couple of extra steps to get to that button. Regardless of whether there is a screen button to do it, why wouldn't you want the option to just press and external button to do it?
Yes they are minor changes. I'm trying to show you that you unrealistically expect Apple to make a major OS update within 6 months of the phones release. When no one else does this.
I DON'T. I expect them to add features through the life of the phone contract like they said they would do. So far they've added an iTunes store, Starbucks (US only) and internationalisation. None of which are anything to shout about.
If the rumour for 1.1.3 is correct, it adds a crippled disk mode and voice memos, both of which most smartphones have as standard anyway. Consider me underwhelmed again.
The iPhone is still using the first version.
It's not. There was quite a major architectural change between 1.0 and 1.1 even if it didn't show on the outside.
I bought the iPhone its second week on sale. Everything worked fine. The only real problem was that Safari would crash all the time. Other people had their quibbles about little things but the software all functioned fine.
As I said, no worse than some 1.0 releases from other phone manufacturers. The difference being most other phones have more features out of the box and they don't add them later.
There is a mechanical button for turning off the ringer. So you don't have to deal with being sneaky or appearing rude. But whatever you are searching for things to complain about.
Again, that's not the function I'm describing. That permanently disables the ringer until you re-enable it. The sleep/wake button press does a 'silence this call only' thing in a non-intuitive manner. You can't honestly be defending that?
I assume you are talking about a physical camera button. Why does it absolutely need that?
Do you know of a camera that doesn't have one? I think it does absolutely need one instead of you having to take a hand off the phone to tap the screen.
The point you miss is that people in China are not supposed to be using the iPhone in the first place. So you cannot complain that it does not satisfy their needs, it doesn't have Chinese characters yet.
No I didn't miss that. That was indeed my point. If Apple are to conquer a non-US market, they need a non-US device.
As another example, Apple keyboards in the UK put the @ and " symbols in the same place as the US keyboards. On UK PC and typewriter keyboards, they're switched. It's bizarre and throws off switchers or the Mac Mini Bring Your Own Keyboard switchers. I've no idea why Apple alone do not us a UK keyboard layout. I've had many an argument with PC people already convinced that Apple are arrogant for that alone!
Just curious, if silence ringer is on the touchscreen and the screen/phone is locked don't you have to go through a couple of extra steps to get to that button. Regardless of whether there is a screen button to do it, why wouldn't you want the option to just press and external button to do it?
The iPhone unlocks itself to answer the call so there are no extra steps. My point about the external button is they're using the sleep/wake button to silence the ringer instead of the existing silence ringer switch. That just strikes me as bad design. It's surely not good design if you need a tutorial on apple.com to discover that.
The iPhone unlocks itself to answer the call so there are no extra steps. My point about the external button is they're using the sleep/wake button to silence the ringer instead of the existing silence ringer switch. That just strikes me as bad design. It's surely not good design if you need a tutorial on apple.com to discover that.
I don't know about your one, but flipping my switch to silent silences the ringer whether the phone is locked or not. I've never had a real smartphone, but I didn't need a tutorial to figure that out. It just made sense to flip the switch to silent to silence the ringer. I didn't know about the sleep wake thing until I saw the tutorial, but that's going to be true for any multifunction button that isn't labeled. I'd rather see it explained in a tutorial then have the phone cluttered with many single-function buttons. The upshot being that I don't have a bunch of button labels to tell me something very easy to remember.
Of course there are extra steps. You have to swipe to unlock and then press the silence button; why not just flip the switch to silent. This is something you can do without even looking at the phone, or even taking it out of your pocket (that's even more true about the sleep/wake button).
I'd imagine they didn't put silent or decline button on the locked screen because you might accidentally press it while pulling the phone out of your pocket. Its much harder to accidentally swipe your finger across the screen. So the phone does not unlock when a call comes in, the screen is still locked and in need of a swipe action to answer the call.
With the phone locked, here would have to be a swipe to silence action in addition to the swipe to answer. Then you would also have to have a swipe to send to vm button. That's a whole lot of screen real estate that can be replaced with pressing, or double pressing a single physical button, or just flipping the silent ringer switch.
The only place I could see having a silence ringer button would be on the incoming call screen when the phone is unlocked, but at least there is already the send to vm button called decline.
Which SE do you have? I'm not familiar with the Symbian interface so maybe they handle in a better manner, or just in one that makes more sense to you.
I DON'T. I expect them to add features through the life of the phone contract like they said they would do.
We are only 6 months into the life of the contract. I'm sure Apple will make good within the next 18 months.
It's not. There was quite a major architectural change between 1.0 and 1.1 even if it didn't show on the outside.
The .1 upgrade shored up stability but isn't as though they changed the kernal. Dramatic changes will come with version 2.
As I said, no worse than some 1.0 releases from other phone manufacturers.
You are the one who said other OS upgrades are buggy, not me.
Again, that's not the function I'm describing. The sleep/wake button press does a 'silence this call only' thing in a non-intuitive manner.
There are three ways to disable the ringer. Four if you count turning off the phone. For some strange reason you want to stay fixated on this one, ignoring all the other options.
Do you know of a camera that doesn't have one? I think it does absolutely need one instead of you having to take a hand off the phone to tap the screen.
You don't really have to make the whole tapping moiton it takes a picture when you lift your finger from the button. You can argue the inconvenience of looking at where you place your finger before you can take the pic. Generally you look at what button you are touching with a mechanical button. I've taken over a thousand pictures on my iPhone it does take some getting used to but its not as big a problem as you want to make it sound.
No I didn't miss that. That was indeed my point. If Apple are to conquer a non-US market, they need a non-US device.
If this is true then why are people in China going through all the trouble they are going through to use the iPhone?
I've had many an argument with PC people already convinced that Apple are arrogant for that alone!
That's a loosing argument as Apple has no shortage of hubris.
My point about the external button is they're using the sleep/wake button to silence the ringer instead of the existing silence ringer switch.
The existing ringer switch can turn off the ringer. The sleep/wake button is just another option.
Consider me underwhelmed again.
Fortunate for you that their are a myriad of phone choices.
The interesting thing about this is that if Sony/Ericsson or Nokia offered $1000 phone in the US. I cannot see many people using very much of the finite time or energy we have in life to complain. We would either buy it or not.
We are only 6 months into the life of the contract. I'm sure Apple will make good within the next 18 months.
They're taking their time about it, that's all.
There are three ways to disable the ringer. Four if you count turning off the phone. For some strange reason you want to stay fixated on this one, ignoring all the other options.
Because the other options do not silence the ringer for that call only, which is a function I use many times a day. On the iPhone you press the sleep/wake button to do it, which is not intuitive, on my SE P910, the phone rings, I get the option to Accept, Decline, Mute the ringer for that call or send to voicemail all on the screen. It's obvious. It's immediately unlocked, I either press the onscreen button or roll the side dial to select the option and click it in. ie. it's a one handed, one button operation as are most operation under UIQ phones. No hunting for buttons or screen swipes.
You don't really have to make the whole tapping moiton it takes a picture when you lift your finger from the button. You can argue the inconvenience of looking at where you place your finger before you can take the pic. Generally you look at what button you are touching with a mechanical button. I've taken over a thousand pictures on my iPhone it does take some getting used to but its not as big a problem as you want to make it sound.
If you say so. I still think it's counter intuitive and I never look at which button I'm pressing on a camera if the manufacturer has placed it correctly.
The interesting thing about this is that if Sony/Ericsson or Nokia offered $1000 phone in the US. I cannot see many people using very much of the finite time or energy we have in life to complain. We would either buy it or not.
You've never been on esato.com ?
I'm an Apple fan. I want them to do well. But like many of their products recently I think they're only 50% there. AppleTV, AirportExtreme, the new iMac, all a bit so-so, though at least they've fixed the main complaint with the AirportExtreme - lack of gigabit - now fix TimeMachine and add audio-out.
I'm also an SE UIQ phone fan and their products have been 50% there too recently. The P990 was terrible - I sent it back after a month and kept using my P910. Nice hardware, bug ridden software and not enough ram. They've mostly fixed that issue with the P1i, but then added a silly blackberry style keypad. Aaarrrgh! The P5i rumours however seem to have SE back on the right track and aiming right back at Apple. The UIQ guys aren't going to relinquish their lead on touchscreen interfaces without a fight.
http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic...158431&start=0
Because the other options do not silence the ringer for that call only, which is a function I use many times a day. On the iPhone you press the sleep/wake button to do it, which is not intuitive, on my SE P910, the phone rings, I get the option to Accept, Decline, Mute the ringer for that call or send to voicemail all on the screen. It's obvious. It's immediately unlocked, I either press the onscreen button or roll the side dial to select the option and click it in. ie. it's a one handed, one button operation as are most operation under UIQ phones. No hunting for buttons or screen swipes.
If it unlocks right away how do they protect you from accidentally pressing a button pulling it out of your pocket? If you have to control what part of the phone you touch, aka anything but the screen, when removing it from your pocket that is as imperfect a solution as what you object to on the iPhone especially when the edges of the screen are not clearly defined.
If you object to them making you use the "sleep/wake" button to silence the ring would it make you feel any better if they had called it the "silence ringer/send to voicemail/sleep/wake" button or something arbitrary like the "action" button? Seems like the biggest objection is that they didn't include "silence ringer" in the name of the button. Or do you have an objection to using an external button to accomplish a task that should have only been accomplished with an on-screen button.
If it unlocks right away how do they protect you from accidentally pressing a button pulling it out of your pocket?
You have to push the jog dial in to activate the option. It's kind of the opposite of the iPhone in that you can't push anything on that without unlocking whereas on UIQ, it's unlocked and you can select the option but have to confirm by clicking the physical jog dial. Or you can set it to answer on any button without unlocking like most other phones instead of just the answer button.
I've had it accidently go off a few times though when I've forgot to lock the phone before putting it in my pocket.
If you have to control what part of the phone you touch, aka anything but the screen, when removing it from your pocket that is as imperfect a solution as what you object to on the iPhone especially when the edges of the screen are not clearly defined.
Well, you don't have to be careful. The P series phones have defined edges as the screen is recessed into the phone - stops scratches.
If you object to them making you use the "sleep/wake" button to silence the ring would it make you feel any better if they had called it the "silence ringer/send to voicemail/sleep/wake" button or something arbitrary like the "action" button?
So what would you call the existing "silence ringer" switch if you added "silence ringer" to the sleep/wake button???
Seems like the biggest objection is that they didn't include "silence ringer" in the name of the button. Or do you have an objection to using an external button to accomplish a task that should have only been accomplished with an on-screen button.
No that's not my 'biggest objection', which overstates how I feel about it as a phrase. My 'biggest objection' is they've two buttons to silence the ringer and the second is not the obvious one. But yes, if they'd just put on screen buttons instead of misappropriating the wrong physical button it'd make more sense.
It'd also make more sense if they didn't have a silence ringer switch either and that was a function of the UI. I mean, why do they have a physical ringer switch but a graphical lock slider? How does one make sense but not the other?
Anyway, it was just one example of where I think it's inconsistent. There are many. Apple aren't alone in sometimes odd design.
So what would you call the existing "silence ringer" switch if you added "silence ringer" to the sleep/wake button???
One is the silence switch and the other is the silence button... duh!!!
I think this is just a matter of what you are used to. You're used to the SE system so it seems convoluted to you. I, on the other hand, aren't so it makes sense to me. Kind of like the keyboard; people who are used to physical keyboards have a harder time acclimating to the touch keyboard.
I do agree that with the phone unlocked on an incoming call there should be a silence ringer button next to the decline-send to vm button.
So i take it that most of you have read the other article now on Apple 2 new iphones for 2008. (just like I said might i add)
Are trying to take credit for predicting that Apple would refresh and update the phone?
Are trying to take credit for predicting that Apple would refresh and update the phone?
Anyone could have predicted that. But I did say they would announce 2 and a few of you thought i was chatting malarky so haha
Anyone could have predicted that. But I did say they would announce 2 and a few of you thought i was chatting malarky so haha
Can't count the chickens until they're hatched.
Yes well im counting 2 chickens and I counted on them to hatch at macworld. Most on here scoffed at the idea of a new iphone being announced so soon.
my my bav. ... you seem extremely confident.