Amazon's new Kindle dubbed the 'iPod of reading'

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  • Reply 81 of 150
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by caliminius View Post


    Consider what happens when some hacker decides to change all of the speed limit signs to 85MPH on a winding country in the middle of winter...



    Actually, that shouldn't change what speed people drive in that case. The speed limit isn't a legal entitlement to drive that speed no matter what. My state has something like a "safe and prudent speed" law. If you slid off the road at 5mph, then you probably weren't going a safe and prudent speed and can actually get ticketed for going 80mph lower than posted limits. Anyone that gets in trouble driving 85 on a winding road in the winter deserves a stiff penalty.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Kindle's large e-ink screen (which is probably why it costs as much as it does) is 176 dpi. That is very high resolution. High-quality color magazine printing is about 300 dpi, which is unnecessary for black & white images.



    176 is decent for TEXT. Not so good for B&W images except for B&W line art. 300 dpi is needed to render grayscale images without looking too grainy.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    E-ink has been used in signage for years.



    No, that's not eink, it's just electrical or electronic signage, often LED or incandescent. eink is a fairly specific type of technology where it flips micro beads based on the desired color.
  • Reply 82 of 150
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GamoGuy View Post


    Some points:

    * e-Ink is the right way to go for display. They got that right.

    * But no color display at this point is a mistake.



    But that's contradictory. Color eink just isn't ready yet.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post


    given the choice of hi res oled/lcd OR eink



    I would go for the LCD every time.



    Why? Because if i can put up with a bit of eyestrain (something i dont personaly suffer with, and millions of people MUST happily put up with hence the popularity of computers)



    Have you even tried to look at eink? I think you are making unqualified assumptions about how it strain your eyes. I wonder if part of the eye strain we get may very well be because of the luminous display rather than being transflective. When doing recreational reading, I'm a lot more comfortable reading from the printed page than from a luminous display.
  • Reply 83 of 150
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shifty View Post


    They've already invented the iPod of reading. It's called a book.



    That doesn't make any sense. That's like saying that a CD or CD player is an iPod because it's just one work and you can't switch as easily if your mood changes and you'd rather read a different book at the moment.



    Quote:

    Nobody needs to carry around all their books--it's just not like music. It's a fundamentally bad idea.



    I think you're just being unimaginitive. You've never hand to haul around 100lbs or 40+kg of textbooks around a campus?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Sure, with dictionaries, encyclopedias, and such. But those can be accessed/read on a laptop as well. Moreover, if you are already online as this device is, why not just google (or whatever) the reference info you need?



    Notebook computers suck down batteries and take too long to boot up to get little tidbits of information like that. In that case, something like an iPhone might do, though a larger screen would be preferable.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by S10 View Post


    -too early

    -horrible design

    -too expensive (how many books to recoup?)

    -bad reading experience



    Reading for pleasure is a very intimate thing to do, even more then listening to music on your headphones, nobody wants to read from this "machine".

    Now if you have to read tech stuff or legal stuff or study... you might aswel do it on your laptop, like people do now anyway.



    The thing I don't like is that ebooks and similar "printed" media just aren't enough cheaper than the printed version. Unless the media price goes down to reflect the reduced expenses and the cost-shifting to the user, or the reader goes down a LOT, I just don't see ebooks catching on. A person can resell or trade a paper book, and the ebook pricing doesn't don't reflect the fact that right is lost. That's true of iTunes as well.



    I think something like iTunes is a benefit because you can buy just the tracks that you want, but that has no equivalent in books because most don't want to buy a chapter at a time.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joseph_xxl View Post


    this thing is HUGE ......Comparing it to the early ipod is an insult



    Would you want to read a book on a 2" screen? Anything that's comfortable to read is going to be the size of a mini-tablet or PADD like on Star Trek.
  • Reply 84 of 150
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Are you an engineer? Do you know anything about power consumption and battery life? And a touch screen?



    I think most people would agree the design is a bit clunky, but the reactions here are way over the top... probably from nervous AAPL stock owners. I'm not at all nervous about this, I think it's a great thing.



    I AGREE completely. The pointers on the thread seem to be a little crazed, other than on design (why not black or a choice of colors I ask you as the cost to add ink to the plastic molds is the same? Since there are no other variants, having an inventory of black, white, blue, etc. is pretty simple).



    1. E-ink is plain and simple about reducing eye strain. You could use this to read a book on a plain for 15 hours straight with no eye strain and no battery.



    2. I'd love a tablet Mac option, but that would NOT be used for reading given power consumption and eye strain (unless a new technology comes out). Great idea, not a competitor for this.



    3. I'd love were this a touchscreen and could take notes. I just do not know if that is compatible with e-ink system.



    4. E-ink is only black and white. They are working on it. But most books are black and white and that is what this replaces.



    5. What books do people on this web posting read? Do they read books? You can't read books on an LED/LCD TV or laptop screen for long periods.



    6. The connection to download books is free. Any charges would be for Magazines, Newspapers, Blogs. FREE FREE FREE.



    7. Now naturally, the price is embedded in the cost of the books to use the Spring service. But this Price is LOWER than conventional books.



    8. You get a free backup online and can also backup to an SD card. Someone asks what if they go bankrupt. Well what about itunes if Apple goes bankrupt? What about any online service. You still have the digital rights.
  • Reply 85 of 150
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Quote:

    Believe it or not, I thought the coolest thing to do with this would be to add a nice semi-rigid leather-bound cover for Kindle. That would 'warm up' the product (make it not so sterile) and it would feel great, like a really nice leather-bound classic book.



    I am very surprised that Amazon is not already offering these types of accessories.
  • Reply 86 of 150
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nondual View Post


    It's books. Of course it's bigger than an iPod. What it isn't is bigger than it should be. You need a screen big enough to read.



    Yes, its bigger than it should be. It should be the size of a paperback. Thicker is better than wider/taller in this case up to a point. I can fit a thin/medium paperback into a pocket. This thing with a keyboard? No way. It would have been far better to make the device with a slide out keyboard and a thicker unit.



    eInk I have no problems with.



    Sprint? Not so keen on. Yes, I know that downloads are "free" but as someone else noted...the Kindle turns into a semi-brick if Amazon and Sprint part ways unless you can unlock the Kindle to use another service. I understand the advantage of Sprint over WiFi but for $400 it should have both.



    I do think its a poor product from the perspective of cost. Apple made money on hardware so the media costs were low. Amazon makes money on software ($10 for an eBook is pricey...Baen Books are $4-$6 for eBooks and some titles are free) but the hardware is $400. No sale here.



    Oh, and yes, while eInk IS superior I have read entire Baen book titles on a computer/laptop monitor.



    http://www.webscription.net/m-1-baen-books.aspx
  • Reply 87 of 150
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Safari can read PDFs and (obviously) HTML. MobileSafari on the iPhone has a very nice way of switching between multiple open pages. If Apple made one with capacitance touch screen capabilities (is that even possible?) and with an accelorometer so turning the eReader would allow you to view two pages from different eBooks side-by-side then students could use it. Also, as I stated earlier, find-as-you-type would be a Godsend if you are using it for textbooks. Just brainstorming on how I think Apple might do it, no need to chew my head off you don't agree with me.



    I'm not trying to chew your head off. Sorry if it came off that way. I just think this device has some potential.



    As vinea and others have pointed out the device cost is kinda high so the media costs need to be low. I think for students it *could* be very useful device. I remember spending ridiculous amounts of money in college on used textbooks that were in terrible condition and then selling them back at the end of the semester for less than half of the purchase price. Rinse and repeat.



    Could Apple come up with something better. I have no doubt that they could but I don't know if it's a market they wish to enter. I sort of doubt it.
  • Reply 88 of 150
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    I'm not trying to chew your head off. Sorry if it came off that way. I just think this device has some potential.



    No, you weren't. It was a preemptive defensive to anyone that might decide my brainstorming was beyond reasoning.
  • Reply 89 of 150
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    But that's contradictory. Color eink just isn't ready yet.







    Have you even tried to look at eink? I think you are making unqualified assumptions about how it strain your eyes. I wonder if part of the eye strain we get may very well be because of the luminous display rather than being transflective. When doing recreational reading, I'm a lot more comfortable reading from the printed page than from a luminous display.



    Well apparently its like paper(at least thats the goal), so i have plenty of analogies at hand without trying real eink.

    It makes no difference to me, I have never suffered from eye strain,and i have spent the vast majority of my life sat in front of computer screens since the sinclair spectrum 48k (about 20 years ago, actualy at that point it was a TV used as a monitor, but thats beside the point).

    Maybe im lucky with my eyesight.



    Samsung are releasing 7" OLED screens in 2008, I hope Apple goes this route, would suit me better.
  • Reply 90 of 150
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Personally I'd rather give Baen Books or individual authors my money than Amazon.



    You know what pisses me off? 1824: The Arkansas War isn't available on WebScription and costs $9.99 in Kindle format vs the usual $6.00 from WebScription where I can choose HTML, Rocket/Ebookwise, Pal/Mobipocket, RTF or MS Reader format. In comparison to the $7.99 paperback. I'm guessing Amazon got to Del Rey who will now not release free eBooks or charge a lot more than what it cost on WebScription.



    They want $7.99 for 1812: The Rivers of War which is a Free eBook from WebScription.



    Mmm...F*** Amazon. Now I don't care HOW good their EBook is...although the Now Now feature is kinda cool. The last thing I want is the nacent eBook market to get locked into .AZW format that only one reader can read.



    Hell...if they just went with Mobipocket DRM rather than AZW I'd be okay with it.
  • Reply 91 of 150
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post


    Well apparently its like paper(at least thats the goal), so i have plenty of analogies at hand without trying real eink.

    It makes no difference to me, I have never suffered from eye strain,and i have spent the vast majority of my life sat in front of computer screens since the sinclair spectrum 48k (about 20 years ago, actualy at that point it was a TV used as a monitor, but thats beside the point).

    Maybe im lucky with my eyesight.



    You mean to say that you get eye strain from reading text printed on paper, but never on a screen?
  • Reply 92 of 150
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Are you an engineer? Do you know anything about power consumption and battery life? And a touch screen?



    Why not a touch screen, that was the first thing I wondered about this.



    It has a dictionary, how do you select the word you want to look up? A touch screen would be perfect for that.



    And a TON of room is wasted on a keyboard, makes no sense for an item intended to be used for reading. A touchscreen would allow the screen to be bigger and still provide a way to input text for things like searches.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NYCMacFan View Post


    Someone asks what if they go bankrupt. Well what about itunes if Apple goes bankrupt? What about any online service. You still have the digital rights.



    With iTunes, you can play the music on an ipod, on a computer, or burn a CD. With this, if they discontinue it, is there any other way to read the books you've bought?
  • Reply 93 of 150
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    OMG...Amazon is doing shades of Microsoft.



    They OWN Mobipocket but decided to do a completely different DRM system that isn't compatible with existing Mobipocket readers....no Kindle books on your Mobipocket compatible PDAs or on Windows.



    Kindle = Zune

    Mobi = Playsforsure



    Niiiice...there's another company emulating the iPod and they took their playbook...
  • Reply 94 of 150
    [QUOTE=With iTunes, you can play the music on an ipod, on a computer, or burn a CD. With this, if they discontinue it, is there any other way to read the books you've bought?[/QUOTE]



    1. Good question. Presumably you can still view on your kindle. Data could easily be backed up. Not sure what else it would be viewable on. But not my biggest concern.



    As I recall, with the old itunes downloads, you still had DRM and could not play on a non Apple MP3 or am I mistaken? I have never tried to use Apple stuff on a non-IPOD and most of my music came off of my CDs.



    2. For the record, I find the design/ergonomics to be the strangest.



    I also do wonder if you could do a touchscreen with e-ink or not. Given how it fixes the ink into place, it may be that you can't do quick changes on the screen. Would be really cool if possible.



    3. I actually do not mind the price, I just wonder if Kindle 2.0 doesn't fix all of these deficiencies and make waiting worth it, even if you were to buy.



    4. My other question is where will you get a chance to use this. If you do not have stores showcasing this, hard for many people to see the e-ink value.
  • Reply 95 of 150
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    OMG...Amazon is doing shades of Microsoft.



    They OWN Mobipocket but decided to do a completely different DRM system that isn't compatible with existing Mobipocket readers....no Kindle books on your Mobipocket compatible PDAs or on Windows.



    Kindle = Zune

    Mobi = Playsforsure



    Niiiice...there's another company emulating the iPod and they took their playbook...



    What? That's the Microsoft playbook. Apple doesn't have two incompatible DRM formats for the same media type.
  • Reply 96 of 150
    iposteriposter Posts: 1,560member
    That's what it is.



    Reading text for more than an hour or so on even a top LCD beings to hurt my eyes.



    Books are less expensive, and don't require charging/batteries, can be read outdoors or in bright light, etc.



    EDIT: Apparently I was mis-informed and this is some form of e-paper, so I'll withhold final judgment until I get to see one in person.



    I'd still rather have the book for $9.99 and pocket the $389.
  • Reply 97 of 150
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    What? That's the Microsoft playbook. Apple doesn't have two incompatible DRM formats for the same media type.



    Yes, the wording was a little unclear but it should parse that Amazon took MS's playbook and not Apple's.



    Oh...another GEM of what Amazon did...for $400 ($100 more than the Sony) they used LAST generation eInk panels. The Sony PRS-505 ($299) evidently has an eInk panel of higher quality and the Kindle is equivalent in quality to the old PRS-500.



    Geez. More and more Zune like although Amazon is going to grab a lot more mindshare and market share than the Zune since the eBook market was rather small and...well...Sony isn't that much of competition. Although they WERE nice enough to include 100 free eBooks with their device as oppposed to 0 from Amazon.



    At least I did see some $0.50 Kinderbooks. I guess that pretty much covers the cost of handling the transaction and sending it via Sprint.



    I dunno...Kindle seems like a huge step backwards for eBooks EXCEPT for the mindshare gained from Amazon's public backing.
  • Reply 98 of 150
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post


    In ten years you'll be able to buy these for less than $100, and they'll be everywhere.



    I've been following e-ink since 1999.



    In 10 years we'll likely also have other display types that are 300 DPI, color, sunlight readable, etc and cost $10 for mobile phones,PDA's etc.



    Cholesteric LCD might be an example. Might not if you classify all ePaper like technolgies under eInk.



    I think RGB (additive) has advantages over CMYK (subtractive) for color digitial displays...black seems to be an issue with CMYK displays...especially if there is no K part to the display. Then you get a muddy dark brown.
  • Reply 99 of 150
    takeotakeo Posts: 445member
    An e-paper screen with touch technology would be cool... flick a finger to change the page... just like a real book (no scrolling)... and unlike a book collection... it doesn't take up a wall full of shelving and a few million trees. Also... e-paper would be very easy on battery life... and have about the same resolution as a laser print... unlike an LCD which is a huge drain, hard on the eyes and very low res.
  • Reply 100 of 150
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Takeo View Post


    An e-paper screen with touch technology would be cool... flick a finger to change the page... just like a real book (no scrolling)... and unlike a book collection... it doesn't take up a wall full of shelving and a few million trees. Also... e-paper would be very easy on battery life... and have about the same resolution as a laser print... unlike an LCD which is a huge drain, hard on the eyes and very low res.



    This screen does use e-paper technology instead of LCD, with very high battery life.



    And it doesn't scroll, it IS a finger touch to turn pages.
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