Still, there's sooooo much wasted space on the thing. It looks like a good third of it is keyboard or bezel.
If it were the size of just that screen, with the keyboard, oh say, software based and visible only when needed, it might be the right size.
Wonder where that kind of format could be found, mmmmm?
You're kidding me, right? The original iPod had LESS screen real estate relative to total size. Also, please remember you couldn't even create a playlist independent of your computer and iTunes with the Rev A. iPod.
"Apple would OWN this marketplace" What marketplace? There is no 'real' market for this today. This is new market speculation. (and speculators can be wrong)
"The market for getting your newspapers and magazines is a good one." No it is a bad one. That's why they are going out of business. All of them. Online news is more current, accurate, and best of all... free. They are dinosaurs.. not pheonixes waiting to be reborn.
"The market for replacing heavy school textbooks is enormous if the price is right." Also wrong. Text book marketing makes money on new editions. Electronic editions would mean evaporating the scarcity put into place on new editions. People won't pay $50 for a pdf version...because you know bits are copied for free.
So before you throw down the Ignorance card... a basic understanding of print media marketing history would be helpful.
Apple will not touch this market, because there is no market. Unlike Amazon which ran until 2002 before making a profit... Apple likes to do this everyday....and they do.
Again. Have you used an e-ink device? I own one and use it.
Others in this thread have not. Many of the comments regarding the display vs LCD are uninformed.
As to the "print media marketing history" SO WHAT? Why don't you explain the same thing to me about the music media industry then genius? Apple overthrew that as well after Napster and P2P destroyed the music industry's cartel pricing on songs and cds.
The same thing can and will happen with written content, as opposed to what you call the "print media". It is the "print media going digital. It has already happened. The constraints on price and distribution channels disappear. The Publishing industry is going to have to deal with that. And they will have the same problems with DRM that music and film have.
Disintermediation.
The point here is Apple already has all the pieces needed to dominate this market if they chose to. The size of the market? Hard to know until it is overturned. The textbook publishers will still want to charge a premium for their content creation, and for later editions. They will probably get away with it as well. The difference will be that instead of lugging around several 700 page monsters to schools, they will be distributed electronically. It is not a question of IF, but of WHEN.
176 is decent for TEXT. Not so good for B&W images except for B&W line art. 300 dpi is needed to render grayscale images without looking too grainy.
Not true. Large format printers print out at about 150 dpi, and that's in color. 176 dpi for B&W is quite good. I'd love to see Kindle's display up close, too bad they don't have any models at retail.
No, that's not eink, it's just electrical or electronic signage, often LED or incandescent. eink is a fairly specific type of technology where it flips micro beads based on the desired color.
I used to own a Gemstar ebook reader, I loved it, for the 2 years before they gave up the business. I want to see a working global e-book reader. The Kindle goes some way towards that but .. still not there.
The thing should be all-screen - with touch technology and a few buttons on the side. I think they could do them in different sizes, paperback sized for one type of user, something more text-book sized for school use, for instance.
Content - the Gemstar suffered from lack of content, you got what there was and you weren't exactly encouraged to make your own. Leveraging an existing standard like PDF would be a great way to get lots of content, both commercial and user-made.
Seamless integration - buying books, uploading your own content (like podcasts), pulling in other content like text and putting it all on your library should be easy, and you should be able to access your library online over WiFi.
.. and a model which is more like a book. You can give them away, borrow them, sell them back to the 2nd hard ebookstore. The best would be no DRM, but I don't know how well that would work.
The device is part of it - this one is close but not really there yet, the content and delivery system is a much bigger part of it, I'm not sure anyone is close on that yet.
Believe it or not, I thought the coolest thing to do with this would be to add a nice semi-rigid leather-bound cover for Kindle. That would 'warm up' the product (make it not so sterile) and it would feel great, like a really nice leather-bound classic book.
I am very surprised that Amazon is not already offering these types of accessories.
Amazon does already offer "this type of accessory" -- see Kindle Book Cover... they include one in the package.
Having used it for a few hours this afternoon, it (the cover) makes the Kindle much more manageable -- it feels more like a book, and (at least if you hold it in your left hand) your hand naturally cradles the thing with your thumb under the left edge. The major downside is that the power buttons (for the whole thing and for the wireless connection) are on the reverse, so you have to pull the Kindle out of the cover to switch it off (or back on). This seems like an oversight...
As for other comments here; much though I love my MacBook Pro, iPhone, and iPod nano, *simple reading* is more relaxing and restful on the Kindle. Others here who have described their experience with E-Ink are spot on.
For general use, particularly when it's in the cover I've accidentally knocked the sidebar buttons only a couple of times which is a lot less than I thought would be the case. They're conveniently placed and work reasonably well. I'd like it if they felt a little more sturdy, though.
The scroller is better than I thought it would be; it's certainly innovative (as far as I'm aware anyway), and Amazon deserves credit for that. The only unfortunate aspect is that because it sticks out from the surface, it typically gets pressed when you close the cover. Again, something of an oversight...
Other user interface niceties include indicators to show how far you've got through an item -- both when you're reading an item and in the index --
The main thing I don't like is the "flash" each time you "turn a page" as the screen refreshes. I understand that this is a limitation of the technology, but it's a shame. It's not sufficient of a distraction that it makes reading unpleasant, though.
Amazon does already offer "this type of accessory" -- see Kindle Book Cover... they include one in the package.
I stand corrected, or at least better informed.
Quote:
Having used it for a few hours this afternoon, it (the cover) makes the Kindle much more manageable -- it feels more like a book, and (at least if you hold it in your left hand) your hand naturally cradles the thing with your thumb under the left edge. The major downside is that the power buttons (for the whole thing and for the wireless connection) are on the reverse, so you have to pull the Kindle out of the cover to switch it off (or back on). This seems like an oversight...
As for other comments here; much though I love my MacBook Pro, iPhone, and iPod nano, *simple reading* is more relaxing and restful on the Kindle. Others here who have described their experience with E-Ink are spot on.
For general use, particularly when it's in the cover I've accidentally knocked the sidebar buttons only a couple of times which is a lot less than I thought would be the case. They're conveniently placed and work reasonably well. I'd like it if they felt a little more sturdy, though.
The scroller is better than I thought it would be; it's certainly innovative (as far as I'm aware anyway), and Amazon deserves credit for that. The only unfortunate aspect is that because it sticks out from the surface, it typically gets pressed when you close the cover. Again, something of an oversight...
Other user interface niceties include indicators to show how far you've got through an item -- both when you're reading an item and in the index --
The main thing I don't like is the "flash" each time you "turn a page" as the screen refreshes. I understand that this is a limitation of the technology, but it's a shame. It's not sufficient of a distraction that it makes reading unpleasant, though.
I most definitely would buy one. People are missing how much of an industry changer this could be. Its not just about story books!
EVERY pupil will have to have one.
All newspapers will be published on them.
All magazines..
With an easy setup micropayment system, an elegant simple design, basic interface, touch screen with gestures, this could be as big if not bigger than the iPod market
At the extreme, many internet media publishing businesses could be enticed... BBC, CNN, CNET, theregister.... blogs...
Essentialy I want it to have variable speed auto scroll, wifi and a browser, fit at least 50 books, animated UI with page turning gestures, OSX, PDF, >=150dpi color screen, reasonable battery life(but not excessive). about 8" diagonal, bookmarks, USB2, calculator, dictionary,
OR it utilizes fold up OLED and fits in my pocket. I'm not fond of the eink malarky until its speed and blacknwhite issues are sorted.
This device would cater for your average joe public market. but a VERY basic version with eink, some classroom networking software to synchronise reading/display of charts/images and other learning material would be more apealing for bulk school purchases me tinks.
200% agree with you. This rocks. Especially the "touch" gesture of *turning* a page.
I'm not sure of this eInk bollocks. Greyscale is bad. There is extremely respectable data that colour improves reception, comprehension, retention, learning, etc. etc.
Greyscale is an evolutionary step backward. I don't care if I have every literary work ever produced by humans in the palm of my hand. Imagine if you gave Da Vinci a piece of charcoal and told him, OK, now make Mona Lisa. You can pretty much say that Kindle will not apply to entire art, graphic design, architecture, photography, even ALL OF SCHOOL AND UNIVERSITY TEXTBOOKS.
I would anyday give kids, my kids, students, friends, parents, whatever, a physical book rather than Kindlemyass.
The reason it has a greyscale screen is because it's an eInk screen, not a LCD. So far, eInk is a greyscale technology. This will probably change in time, but greyscale is what we've got right now.
I believe I read that color eInk prototypes exist already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Perez
An e-book reader is a great concept for many reasons. The thing can remember where you left off, it can facilitate looking up words or references, and it will save who knows how many thousands of acres of forest. Especially for reading material one usually dumps, such as newspapers or magazines.
And see below....
Quote:
Originally Posted by planetWC
For those of you who have NOT used an ebook reader, you are speaking from ignorance.
I have an iRex illiad. The reading experience with e-ink is EXCELLENT.
I took it with me on vacation and loaded up hundreds of books on it. I was able to read in the airport, on the plane and in my hotel room-no lugging around a suitcase full of books.
Why have a collection of books on a device? Because YOU CAN. Have the books you read for pleasure. Have the technical books for your profession. Have the daily newspaper, wikipedia and google at your fingertips.
The market for getting your newspapers and magazines is a good one.
The market for replacing heavy school textbooks is enormous if the price is right.
I think both of posts above explain why eBooks are coming in one device or many to come, and the last application mentioned, where a college student could always have all her/his books with him in a 10 ounce package all through the school days, at home, out with other students, etc. is totally killer and could change the whole college study experience.
I think both of posts above explain why eBooks are coming in one device or many to come, and the last application mentioned, where a college student could always have all her/his books with him in a 10 ounce package all through the school days, at home, out with other students, etc. is totally killer and could change the whole college study experience.
I agree and would add that it could be cheaper even including the cost of the Kindle. 20 years ago when I was in college, textbooks cost $50-80. I'm sure they are higher now. What if you could get you e-books for say $30? We don't know how much e-text books would cost but I could envision a scenario where this would be cheaper than the old physical text books.
I would anyday give kids, my kids, students, friends, parents, whatever, a physical book rather than Kindlemyass.
Personally I would keep an open mind and try to determine what's best for any individual.
If someone reads only a couple of books a year and takes little interest in keeping up with current events, then certainly a Kindle will probably be of little benefit to them.
If, however, someone reads a lot, particularly if they travel or commute regularly, then the Kindle may well be a boon.
I own well over a thousand books, which take up a lot of space. Some of them I wouldn't like to give up -- especially the signed first editions -- but others I don't really need in physical form. And when I go on holiday, I have to choose carefully what I want to bring with me -- what might suit my mood -- and I have to bear the weight of that decision. When traveling, I often buy more books to read. And I have to carry those as well. With the Kindle, I can take my library with me and augment it as I go. Even if I'm not near a bookstore.
You're kidding me, right? The original iPod had LESS screen real estate relative to total size. Also, please remember you couldn't even create a playlist independent of your computer and iTunes with the Rev A. iPod.
Well, you weren't trying to read a book on an iPod screen...
Not true. Large format printers print out at about 150 dpi, and that's in color. 176 dpi for B&W is quite good. I'd love to see Kindle's display up close, too bad they don't have any models at retail.
Go to a Sony store...look at their reader and the kindle should be slightly worse.
This is certainly a great idea. But not at $400. I do read books exclusively on my pocketpc so i'm used to and happy with a digital format and i'd be happy to use the kindle but not at $400.
I agree and would add that it could be cheaper even including the cost of the Kindle. 20 years ago when I was in college, textbooks cost $50-80. I'm sure they are higher now. What if you could get you e-books for say $30? We don't know how much e-text books would cost but I could envision a scenario where this would be cheaper than the old physical text books.
I'm taking classes at a community college, and my books cost as much as or more than my tutition!
True, it would make carrying your books in high school/college much easier; but you would loose the advantage of buying pre-highlighted (er, I mean used) textbooks!
Comments
Still, there's sooooo much wasted space on the thing. It looks like a good third of it is keyboard or bezel.
If it were the size of just that screen, with the keyboard, oh say, software based and visible only when needed, it might be the right size.
Wonder where that kind of format could be found, mmmmm?
You're kidding me, right? The original iPod had LESS screen real estate relative to total size. Also, please remember you couldn't even create a playlist independent of your computer and iTunes with the Rev A. iPod.
Ignorance?
"Apple would OWN this marketplace" What marketplace? There is no 'real' market for this today. This is new market speculation. (and speculators can be wrong)
"The market for getting your newspapers and magazines is a good one." No it is a bad one. That's why they are going out of business. All of them. Online news is more current, accurate, and best of all... free. They are dinosaurs.. not pheonixes waiting to be reborn.
"The market for replacing heavy school textbooks is enormous if the price is right." Also wrong. Text book marketing makes money on new editions. Electronic editions would mean evaporating the scarcity put into place on new editions. People won't pay $50 for a pdf version...because you know bits are copied for free.
So before you throw down the Ignorance card... a basic understanding of print media marketing history would be helpful.
Apple will not touch this market, because there is no market. Unlike Amazon which ran until 2002 before making a profit... Apple likes to do this everyday....and they do.
Again. Have you used an e-ink device? I own one and use it.
Others in this thread have not. Many of the comments regarding the display vs LCD are uninformed.
As to the "print media marketing history" SO WHAT? Why don't you explain the same thing to me about the music media industry then genius? Apple overthrew that as well after Napster and P2P destroyed the music industry's cartel pricing on songs and cds.
The same thing can and will happen with written content, as opposed to what you call the "print media". It is the "print media going digital. It has already happened. The constraints on price and distribution channels disappear. The Publishing industry is going to have to deal with that. And they will have the same problems with DRM that music and film have.
Disintermediation.
The point here is Apple already has all the pieces needed to dominate this market if they chose to. The size of the market? Hard to know until it is overturned. The textbook publishers will still want to charge a premium for their content creation, and for later editions. They will probably get away with it as well. The difference will be that instead of lugging around several 700 page monsters to schools, they will be distributed electronically. It is not a question of IF, but of WHEN.
176 is decent for TEXT. Not so good for B&W images except for B&W line art. 300 dpi is needed to render grayscale images without looking too grainy.
Not true. Large format printers print out at about 150 dpi, and that's in color. 176 dpi for B&W is quite good. I'd love to see Kindle's display up close, too bad they don't have any models at retail.
No, that's not eink, it's just electrical or electronic signage, often LED or incandescent. eink is a fairly specific type of technology where it flips micro beads based on the desired color.
E-ink has been used for signage for years.
Another link.
The thing should be all-screen - with touch technology and a few buttons on the side. I think they could do them in different sizes, paperback sized for one type of user, something more text-book sized for school use, for instance.
Content - the Gemstar suffered from lack of content, you got what there was and you weren't exactly encouraged to make your own. Leveraging an existing standard like PDF would be a great way to get lots of content, both commercial and user-made.
Seamless integration - buying books, uploading your own content (like podcasts), pulling in other content like text and putting it all on your library should be easy, and you should be able to access your library online over WiFi.
.. and a model which is more like a book. You can give them away, borrow them, sell them back to the 2nd hard ebookstore. The best would be no DRM, but I don't know how well that would work.
The device is part of it - this one is close but not really there yet, the content and delivery system is a much bigger part of it, I'm not sure anyone is close on that yet.
Believe it or not, I thought the coolest thing to do with this would be to add a nice semi-rigid leather-bound cover for Kindle. That would 'warm up' the product (make it not so sterile) and it would feel great, like a really nice leather-bound classic book.
I am very surprised that Amazon is not already offering these types of accessories.
Amazon does already offer "this type of accessory" -- see Kindle Book Cover... they include one in the package.
Having used it for a few hours this afternoon, it (the cover) makes the Kindle much more manageable -- it feels more like a book, and (at least if you hold it in your left hand) your hand naturally cradles the thing with your thumb under the left edge. The major downside is that the power buttons (for the whole thing and for the wireless connection) are on the reverse, so you have to pull the Kindle out of the cover to switch it off (or back on). This seems like an oversight...
As for other comments here; much though I love my MacBook Pro, iPhone, and iPod nano, *simple reading* is more relaxing and restful on the Kindle. Others here who have described their experience with E-Ink are spot on.
For general use, particularly when it's in the cover I've accidentally knocked the sidebar buttons only a couple of times which is a lot less than I thought would be the case. They're conveniently placed and work reasonably well. I'd like it if they felt a little more sturdy, though.
The scroller is better than I thought it would be; it's certainly innovative (as far as I'm aware anyway), and Amazon deserves credit for that. The only unfortunate aspect is that because it sticks out from the surface, it typically gets pressed when you close the cover. Again, something of an oversight...
Other user interface niceties include indicators to show how far you've got through an item -- both when you're reading an item and in the index --
The main thing I don't like is the "flash" each time you "turn a page" as the screen refreshes. I understand that this is a limitation of the technology, but it's a shame. It's not sufficient of a distraction that it makes reading unpleasant, though.
mmalc
Amazon does already offer "this type of accessory" -- see Kindle Book Cover... they include one in the package.
I stand corrected, or at least better informed.
Having used it for a few hours this afternoon, it (the cover) makes the Kindle much more manageable -- it feels more like a book, and (at least if you hold it in your left hand) your hand naturally cradles the thing with your thumb under the left edge. The major downside is that the power buttons (for the whole thing and for the wireless connection) are on the reverse, so you have to pull the Kindle out of the cover to switch it off (or back on). This seems like an oversight...
As for other comments here; much though I love my MacBook Pro, iPhone, and iPod nano, *simple reading* is more relaxing and restful on the Kindle. Others here who have described their experience with E-Ink are spot on.
For general use, particularly when it's in the cover I've accidentally knocked the sidebar buttons only a couple of times which is a lot less than I thought would be the case. They're conveniently placed and work reasonably well. I'd like it if they felt a little more sturdy, though.
The scroller is better than I thought it would be; it's certainly innovative (as far as I'm aware anyway), and Amazon deserves credit for that. The only unfortunate aspect is that because it sticks out from the surface, it typically gets pressed when you close the cover. Again, something of an oversight...
Other user interface niceties include indicators to show how far you've got through an item -- both when you're reading an item and in the index --
The main thing I don't like is the "flash" each time you "turn a page" as the screen refreshes. I understand that this is a limitation of the technology, but it's a shame. It's not sufficient of a distraction that it makes reading unpleasant, though.
mmalc
Good review, thanks.
With all these crap ideas Apple really have their work cut out for them!!
McD
I most definitely would buy one. People are missing how much of an industry changer this could be. Its not just about story books!
EVERY pupil will have to have one.
All newspapers will be published on them.
All magazines..
With an easy setup micropayment system, an elegant simple design, basic interface, touch screen with gestures, this could be as big if not bigger than the iPod market
At the extreme, many internet media publishing businesses could be enticed... BBC, CNN, CNET, theregister.... blogs...
Essentialy I want it to have variable speed auto scroll, wifi and a browser, fit at least 50 books, animated UI with page turning gestures, OSX, PDF, >=150dpi color screen, reasonable battery life(but not excessive). about 8" diagonal, bookmarks, USB2, calculator, dictionary,
OR it utilizes fold up OLED and fits in my pocket. I'm not fond of the eink malarky until its speed and blacknwhite issues are sorted.
This device would cater for your average joe public market. but a VERY basic version with eink, some classroom networking software to synchronise reading/display of charts/images and other learning material would be more apealing for bulk school purchases me tinks.
200% agree with you. This rocks. Especially the "touch" gesture of *turning* a page.
Greyscale is an evolutionary step backward. I don't care if I have every literary work ever produced by humans in the palm of my hand. Imagine if you gave Da Vinci a piece of charcoal and told him, OK, now make Mona Lisa. You can pretty much say that Kindle will not apply to entire art, graphic design, architecture, photography, even ALL OF SCHOOL AND UNIVERSITY TEXTBOOKS.
I would anyday give kids, my kids, students, friends, parents, whatever, a physical book rather than Kindlemyass.
The reason it has a greyscale screen is because it's an eInk screen, not a LCD. So far, eInk is a greyscale technology. This will probably change in time, but greyscale is what we've got right now.
I believe I read that color eInk prototypes exist already.
An e-book reader is a great concept for many reasons. The thing can remember where you left off, it can facilitate looking up words or references, and it will save who knows how many thousands of acres of forest. Especially for reading material one usually dumps, such as newspapers or magazines.
And see below....
For those of you who have NOT used an ebook reader, you are speaking from ignorance.
I have an iRex illiad. The reading experience with e-ink is EXCELLENT.
I took it with me on vacation and loaded up hundreds of books on it. I was able to read in the airport, on the plane and in my hotel room-no lugging around a suitcase full of books.
Why have a collection of books on a device? Because YOU CAN. Have the books you read for pleasure. Have the technical books for your profession. Have the daily newspaper, wikipedia and google at your fingertips.
The market for getting your newspapers and magazines is a good one.
The market for replacing heavy school textbooks is enormous if the price is right.
I think both of posts above explain why eBooks are coming in one device or many to come, and the last application mentioned, where a college student could always have all her/his books with him in a 10 ounce package all through the school days, at home, out with other students, etc. is totally killer and could change the whole college study experience.
I think both of posts above explain why eBooks are coming in one device or many to come, and the last application mentioned, where a college student could always have all her/his books with him in a 10 ounce package all through the school days, at home, out with other students, etc. is totally killer and could change the whole college study experience.
I agree and would add that it could be cheaper even including the cost of the Kindle. 20 years ago when I was in college, textbooks cost $50-80. I'm sure they are higher now. What if you could get you e-books for say $30? We don't know how much e-text books would cost but I could envision a scenario where this would be cheaper than the old physical text books.
I'm not sure of this eInk bollocks. Greyscale is bad.
This is simply asinine.
The overwhelming majority of existing books are greyscale.
It really is quite mind-boggling to see the commentary here from people who haven't used the technology.
mmalc
I would anyday give kids, my kids, students, friends, parents, whatever, a physical book rather than Kindlemyass.
Personally I would keep an open mind and try to determine what's best for any individual.
If someone reads only a couple of books a year and takes little interest in keeping up with current events, then certainly a Kindle will probably be of little benefit to them.
If, however, someone reads a lot, particularly if they travel or commute regularly, then the Kindle may well be a boon.
I own well over a thousand books, which take up a lot of space. Some of them I wouldn't like to give up -- especially the signed first editions -- but others I don't really need in physical form. And when I go on holiday, I have to choose carefully what I want to bring with me -- what might suit my mood -- and I have to bear the weight of that decision. When traveling, I often buy more books to read. And I have to carry those as well. With the Kindle, I can take my library with me and augment it as I go. Even if I'm not near a bookstore.
mmalc
You're kidding me, right? The original iPod had LESS screen real estate relative to total size. Also, please remember you couldn't even create a playlist independent of your computer and iTunes with the Rev A. iPod.
Well, you weren't trying to read a book on an iPod screen...
Not true. Large format printers print out at about 150 dpi, and that's in color. 176 dpi for B&W is quite good. I'd love to see Kindle's display up close, too bad they don't have any models at retail.
Go to a Sony store...look at their reader and the kindle should be slightly worse.
I agree and would add that it could be cheaper even including the cost of the Kindle. 20 years ago when I was in college, textbooks cost $50-80. I'm sure they are higher now. What if you could get you e-books for say $30? We don't know how much e-text books would cost but I could envision a scenario where this would be cheaper than the old physical text books.
I'm taking classes at a community college, and my books cost as much as or more than my tutition!
True, it would make carrying your books in high school/college much easier; but you would loose the advantage of buying pre-highlighted (er, I mean used) textbooks!
200% agree with you. This rocks. Especially the "touch" gesture of *turning* a page.
That feature may already be protected by Zinio.