I'm not sure of this eInk bollocks. Greyscale is bad. There is extremely respectable data that colour improves reception, comprehension, retention, learning, etc. etc.
Greyscale is an evolutionary step backward. I don't care if I have every literary work ever produced by humans in the palm of my hand. Imagine if you gave Da Vinci a piece of charcoal and told him, OK, now make Mona Lisa. You can pretty much say that Kindle will not apply to entire art, graphic design, architecture, photography, even ALL OF SCHOOL AND UNIVERSITY TEXTBOOKS.
I would anyday give kids, my kids, students, friends, parents, whatever, a physical book rather than Kindlemyass.
Huh? E-ink is still relatively new, but I view it as extremely promising. Apparently, so does Philips, Sony and a host of other companies with consumer products in the pipeline.
Also, are you saying you are unable to read and comprehend black & white type? This makes up the majority of our communication throughout human history.
Huh? E-ink is still relatively new, but I view it as extremely promising. Apparently, so does Philips, Sony and a host of other companies with consumer products in the pipeline.
Also, are you saying you are unable to read and comprehend black and white type? This makes up the majority of our communication in human history.
OOH, those big electronic companies must be watching with glee....NOT. Sony has had their model out for three years. Thats right THREE YEARS !
Also if you look at the Sony Librie the kindle looks like a clone, albeit with a gsm modem built in and NO! PC connectivity. The Librie takes Sony memory sticks so you can put your own PDF files etc on to the reader. Remember you have to pay amazon for EVERTHING you read on the Kindle.
So, to sum up the Sony Librie was released 3 years ago at the same price as the kindle today, it had a memory stick so you could read your own content but no gsm wireless built in.
The kindle looks like a clone of Sony's handheld, and you can only read content you paid amazon for.
Hmm.. if you really wanted an e-reader you would already have one from Sony.
The overwhelming majority of existing books are greyscale...
That's exactly my point. Maybe this is why I don't read books much nowadays, and neither do most students. Most of my books in high school/ college/ etc. have mostly been in colour. I would have learnt 90% less and would not enjoy my current lifestyle if I had to read mostly black and white.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmalc
It really is quite mind-boggling to see the commentary here from people who haven't used the technology.
For a product to be successful, it has to be *compelling*. That I haven't used it, that's exactly why I need to be attracted to it to use it.
Huh? E-ink is still relatively new, but I view it as extremely promising. Apparently, so does Philips, Sony and a host of other companies with consumer products in the pipeline.
Well, when it is applied in a compelling fashion, instead of merely geeky masturbatory products, then I shall review it and maybe then be impressed. The form factor of the Kindle, the fact that Amazon is trying to push it, all are very unattractive propositions at this stage, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
Also, are you saying you are unable to read and comprehend black & white type? This makes up the majority of our communication throughout human history.
Exactly my point. History being the operative word there. I may sound harsh, but if you attend a good Apple-In-Education presentation/ seminar, it will blow you away. Kids, adults, 6 years to 28 years, you would be amazed in the way they use technology, learn and interact with the world. Books have their place, but they aren't cutting it. If you think of magazines and newspapers, well, most of those are colour but even then are having commercial viability issues.
Amazon is very, very successful at selling books. This does not necessarily mean that the printed black-and-white word is still highly compelling.
I have obviously no real data, but I suspect most people on AI Forums probably read books a lot more than average students or adults.
I wonder if classical black-and-white textbooks in schools and colleges are still relevant.
Even in high-level Science, colour is very important. Just pick up a copy of Nature, one of the most respected scientific publications in the world.
Would you want your kid to be born only seeing black-and-white? Would you force him/her to use *only* a laser black-and-white printer for their assignments? *Only* a greyscale scanner? Would you buy them a Vista Celeron 800mhz PC with 256 shades of grey and a 10" CRT monitor?
I would go so far as to suggest that anyone that buys this Kindle product is hampering the progress of children, and humanity in general.
Both you and SpamSandwich are correct. For science textbooks eInk is not a good solution...yet. But the majority of literature doesn't contain images. For this, eInk is a perfect digital medium, albeit an expensive one.
If you're saying that because Sony had some around for some time, that doesn't mean that there isn't room for competitors, that's silly.
I'm guessing his point is that eInk is not as new as some folks make it out and hasn't set the world afire.
At $400 and...well...clunky looking I doubt the Kindle will either.
Quote:
Not if you don't like Sony's eBook service, or don't trust Sony.
Given that Amazon appears to have inflated ebook pricing (except for best sellers where they take a loss) AND charging $100 more than Sony's reader with a better eInk panel AND built a new DRM system that invalidates old eReaders I'm not overwhelmingly convinced that Amazon is any more trustworthy than Sony. Amazon is shooting for lock in not just for thier reader (with no PC reading option) but also for their site.
Nothing can replace the visual and tactile stimulation of a book. I love my gadgets and even read a couple of books on my Palm Pilots way back, but it just isn't something I enjoyed doing. This thing will flop as it is an answer to a question that no one asked. Plus it's just hideous to behold. Oh yeah, and you can read all the books in the world for free at a library.
ore I read about it the more I want one. My hands kill me when reading my star trek books. This seems like a nice setup, but ugly. I don't know, $400 is a lot, at $200 I would buy without hesitation.
OOH, those big electronic companies must be watching with glee....NOT. Sony has had their model out for three years. Thats right THREE YEARS !
Also if you look at the Sony Librie the kindle looks like a clone, albeit with a gsm modem built in and NO! PC connectivity. The Librie takes Sony memory sticks so you can put your own PDF files etc on to the reader. Remember you have to pay amazon for EVERTHING you read on the Kindle.
So, to sum up the Sony Librie was released 3 years ago at the same price as the kindle today, it had a memory stick so you could read your own content but no gsm wireless built in.
The kindle looks like a clone of Sony's handheld, and you can only read content you paid amazon for.
Hmm.. if you really wanted an e-reader you would already have one from Sony.
The Kindle DOES have PC connectivity built in, via USB connection. They just say that you will rarely need it as content is delivered on the FREE mobile phone connection. They will even let you download the same content over and over again, so no need to back it up to the PC either.
Kindle also had an SD card slot for extra storage, I suspect you will also find that it is updatd to allow you to add your own content via the card or PC in the future.
Nothing can replace the visual and tactile stimulation of a book. I love my gadgets and even read a couple of books on my Palm Pilots way back, but it just isn't something I enjoyed doing. This thing will flop as it is an answer to a question that no one asked. Plus it's just hideous to behold. Oh yeah, and you can read all the books in the world for free at a library.
But you can't take the library or even a small % of it with you.
You can't compare reading a book on your Palm with reading on the Kindle, they are very different display technologies. The Palm was not designed for reading for long periods, were the Kindle screen is designed to look like paper (which it does). I would love one of these to replace the 5-10 books I take on vacation, or the 2-3 books I have on the go at the same time. Plus I will not need my glasses as I can increase the size of the print, something you cannot do with a book!
The first iPod cut the size of HDD audio players by 70%. That was my first impression of the iPod. Small.And finally. I bought it the first day it was released in Hong Kong.
Compare today's iPod with the first iPod. The first iPod looks pretty clunky now, doesn't it?
Hay that thing looks like some PARC or Apple prototype from the early 80's. I can believe that thing is a final product. Maybe they are going for some retro theme? As for them selling out in the first day that's always possible if you only make 10.
Benzo's better look out, he might end up like Sir Alan Sugar, or worse Sir Clive Sinclair (if you make enough useless crap electronic devices the Queen will give you a knighthood for sure).
I bought a Sony Reader for a five week trip to Central Europe where there are strict weight restrictions for checked and carry on baggage. I really like the reader. I can't imagine reading a book on my MacBookPro, but the Reader is really easy to use. Almost all the books I read are black and white, so the gray scale makes sense. The Reader is not a substitute for all books. It is not easy to flip through. You can't share books. I use it for my recreational reading. Right now my son has adopted it and so it is residing miles from me.
One real difference between the Reader and the Kindle (besides internet access) is that I can download PDF books and upload them to my Reader. It's not the best, but it is possible. Another pro for the Reader is that all my books are on my computer, so I have a back up.
Prices seem better on Amazon for the Kindle than on the Sony bookstore. It seems that Sony's prices have dropped after the Kindle reached market. Competition is good!
I think the design of the Reader is better than the Kindle. I haven't actually held or seen a Kindle but from the pictures, the Reader looks more graceful. It is small, light and easy to hold and read.
Until I was faced with the problem of traveling for so long with so many flights (and waiting for flights), I would have never thought I'd like an eBook. But I do. For its purpose, it's great.
The Kindle DOES have PC connectivity built in, via USB connection. They just say that you will rarely need it as content is delivered on the FREE mobile phone connection. They will even let you download the same content over and over again, so no need to back it up to the PC either.
Kindle also had an SD card slot for extra storage, I suspect you will also find that it is updatd to allow you to add your own content via the card or PC in the future.
10cents charge per file transferred over that USB port.
How many times has this been tried already? Last one that I read about was Sony, now we have Amazon. Trying to turn books into an electronic medium. These folks just don't get it. People like books the way books are. Unless there is an absolutely compelling reason to move books off paper into an electronic medium, then what is the point?
I read just about everything on the web. The one thing that I am interested in reading on the monitor is a book. I like the portability of the book. I like the feel of the page. I don't want to fall asleep with some appliance hanging over my head.
But can you explain this to the folks at Sony or Amazon. Of course not. This is like the other pointless pursuit of handwriting recognition. We all know what a bloody joke that was/is!
Add the e-book joke. I give the Amazon spindle, kaffufle whatever, 2 months before it dies a quite death. I think the owner of Amazon has too much time on his hands. And certainly too much $. Maybe he should join Messers Gates & Buffet in spreading some $ and good will aroudn the planet. Start with Iraq.
ejr1959_oz
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Online retailer Amazon grabbed the spotlight on Monday when it announced the Kindle, a handheld e-book reader it says should do for digital text what Apple's iPod has done for music.
Amazon hopes that it can break e-book reading out of its niche by integrating unique hardware with a special online service, similar to the teamwork shown between the iPod and the iTunes Store.
Key to the integration is the device's built-in, pervasive Internet access and a special section of Amazon's online store dedicated to digital publications. Instead of using short-range Wi-Fi, the Kindle taps into Sprint's much larger 3G cellular network and uses this primarily to load its content on to the device: although it has an SD card slot and a USB cable, Amazon expects most users to download their reading material online, regardless of where they may be.
Titled Whispernet, the Amazon's access is completely free to use: owners are only charged for what they buy, not for the bandwidth used. Most of this buying will be done through Amazon's own digital bookstore, the company says.
Echoing part of Apple's approach to the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store, the Kindle can buy text online without requiring a computer. It also offers more than just individual book downloads and lets users subscribe to magazines and newspapers that are automatically downloaded shortly after the print version is published.
Costs range from $1.25 per month for some magazines to $10 for a typical book and $15 for a subscription to an international paper such as Le Monde.
And like the iPod touch, the Kindle can also browse the web: while RSS feeds of certain blogs are available in a Kindle-ready format for one to two dollars each per month, the reader also includes a basic web browser and quick access to Wikipedia.
The handheld even has its own e-mail address to receive web pages, Word files, and images as attachments for ten cents each.
No matter how attractive the product, however, Amazon's Kindle launch may have unintentionally mirrored the climate surrounding the 2001 introduction of the iPod. Like the Apple jukebox, the Kindle is launching at $399 into a market which has yet to fully embrace the product category. Still, Amazon -- which based its core business on selling books as far back as 1994 -- hopes it can make e-book readers as common place as digital media players are today.
The retailer said it plans to begin shipping Kindle on Wednesday.
Comments
I'm not sure of this eInk bollocks. Greyscale is bad. There is extremely respectable data that colour improves reception, comprehension, retention, learning, etc. etc.
Greyscale is an evolutionary step backward. I don't care if I have every literary work ever produced by humans in the palm of my hand. Imagine if you gave Da Vinci a piece of charcoal and told him, OK, now make Mona Lisa. You can pretty much say that Kindle will not apply to entire art, graphic design, architecture, photography, even ALL OF SCHOOL AND UNIVERSITY TEXTBOOKS.
I would anyday give kids, my kids, students, friends, parents, whatever, a physical book rather than Kindlemyass.
Huh? E-ink is still relatively new, but I view it as extremely promising. Apparently, so does Philips, Sony and a host of other companies with consumer products in the pipeline.
Also, are you saying you are unable to read and comprehend black & white type? This makes up the majority of our communication throughout human history.
Huh? E-ink is still relatively new, but I view it as extremely promising. Apparently, so does Philips, Sony and a host of other companies with consumer products in the pipeline.
Also, are you saying you are unable to read and comprehend black and white type? This makes up the majority of our communication in human history.
OOH, those big electronic companies must be watching with glee....NOT. Sony has had their model out for three years. Thats right THREE YEARS !
Also if you look at the Sony Librie the kindle looks like a clone, albeit with a gsm modem built in and NO! PC connectivity. The Librie takes Sony memory sticks so you can put your own PDF files etc on to the reader. Remember you have to pay amazon for EVERTHING you read on the Kindle.
So, to sum up the Sony Librie was released 3 years ago at the same price as the kindle today, it had a memory stick so you could read your own content but no gsm wireless built in.
The kindle looks like a clone of Sony's handheld, and you can only read content you paid amazon for.
Hmm.. if you really wanted an e-reader you would already have one from Sony.
OOH, those big electronic companies must be watching with glee....NOT. Sony has had their model out for three years. Thats right THREE YEARS !
The current one is not the same as the one they had three years ago.
If you're saying that because Sony had some around for some time, that doesn't mean that there isn't room for competitors, that's silly.
Hmm.. if you really wanted an e-reader you would already have one from Sony.
Not if you don't like Sony's eBook service, or don't trust Sony.
The current one is not the same as the one they had three years ago.
If you're saying that because Sony had some around for some time, that doesn't mean that there isn't room for competitors, that's silly.
Not if you don't like Sony's eBook service, or don't trust Sony.
What he said.
The overwhelming majority of existing books are greyscale...
That's exactly my point. Maybe this is why I don't read books much nowadays, and neither do most students. Most of my books in high school/ college/ etc. have mostly been in colour. I would have learnt 90% less and would not enjoy my current lifestyle if I had to read mostly black and white.
It really is quite mind-boggling to see the commentary here from people who haven't used the technology.
For a product to be successful, it has to be *compelling*. That I haven't used it, that's exactly why I need to be attracted to it to use it.
Huh? E-ink is still relatively new, but I view it as extremely promising. Apparently, so does Philips, Sony and a host of other companies with consumer products in the pipeline.
Well, when it is applied in a compelling fashion, instead of merely geeky masturbatory products, then I shall review it and maybe then be impressed. The form factor of the Kindle, the fact that Amazon is trying to push it, all are very unattractive propositions at this stage, IMO.
Also, are you saying you are unable to read and comprehend black & white type? This makes up the majority of our communication throughout human history.
Exactly my point. History being the operative word there. I may sound harsh, but if you attend a good Apple-In-Education presentation/ seminar, it will blow you away. Kids, adults, 6 years to 28 years, you would be amazed in the way they use technology, learn and interact with the world. Books have their place, but they aren't cutting it. If you think of magazines and newspapers, well, most of those are colour but even then are having commercial viability issues.
Amazon is very, very successful at selling books. This does not necessarily mean that the printed black-and-white word is still highly compelling.
I have obviously no real data, but I suspect most people on AI Forums probably read books a lot more than average students or adults.
I wonder if classical black-and-white textbooks in schools and colleges are still relevant.
Even in high-level Science, colour is very important. Just pick up a copy of Nature, one of the most respected scientific publications in the world.
Would you want your kid to be born only seeing black-and-white? Would you force him/her to use *only* a laser black-and-white printer for their assignments? *Only* a greyscale scanner? Would you buy them a Vista Celeron 800mhz PC with 256 shades of grey and a 10" CRT monitor?
I would go so far as to suggest that anyone that buys this Kindle product is hampering the progress of children, and humanity in general.
Both you and SpamSandwich are correct. For science textbooks eInk is not a good solution...yet. But the majority of literature doesn't contain images. For this, eInk is a perfect digital medium, albeit an expensive one.
If you're saying that because Sony had some around for some time, that doesn't mean that there isn't room for competitors, that's silly.
I'm guessing his point is that eInk is not as new as some folks make it out and hasn't set the world afire.
At $400 and...well...clunky looking I doubt the Kindle will either.
Not if you don't like Sony's eBook service, or don't trust Sony.
Given that Amazon appears to have inflated ebook pricing (except for best sellers where they take a loss) AND charging $100 more than Sony's reader with a better eInk panel AND built a new DRM system that invalidates old eReaders I'm not overwhelmingly convinced that Amazon is any more trustworthy than Sony. Amazon is shooting for lock in not just for thier reader (with no PC reading option) but also for their site.
OOH, those big electronic companies must be watching with glee....NOT. Sony has had their model out for three years. Thats right THREE YEARS !
Also if you look at the Sony Librie the kindle looks like a clone, albeit with a gsm modem built in and NO! PC connectivity. The Librie takes Sony memory sticks so you can put your own PDF files etc on to the reader. Remember you have to pay amazon for EVERTHING you read on the Kindle.
So, to sum up the Sony Librie was released 3 years ago at the same price as the kindle today, it had a memory stick so you could read your own content but no gsm wireless built in.
The kindle looks like a clone of Sony's handheld, and you can only read content you paid amazon for.
Hmm.. if you really wanted an e-reader you would already have one from Sony.
The Kindle DOES have PC connectivity built in, via USB connection. They just say that you will rarely need it as content is delivered on the FREE mobile phone connection. They will even let you download the same content over and over again, so no need to back it up to the PC either.
Kindle also had an SD card slot for extra storage, I suspect you will also find that it is updatd to allow you to add your own content via the card or PC in the future.
Nothing can replace the visual and tactile stimulation of a book. I love my gadgets and even read a couple of books on my Palm Pilots way back, but it just isn't something I enjoyed doing. This thing will flop as it is an answer to a question that no one asked. Plus it's just hideous to behold. Oh yeah, and you can read all the books in the world for free at a library.
But you can't take the library or even a small % of it with you.
You can't compare reading a book on your Palm with reading on the Kindle, they are very different display technologies. The Palm was not designed for reading for long periods, were the Kindle screen is designed to look like paper (which it does). I would love one of these to replace the 5-10 books I take on vacation, or the 2-3 books I have on the go at the same time. Plus I will not need my glasses as I can increase the size of the print, something you cannot do with a book!
That's ridiculous.
The first iPod cut the size of HDD audio players by 70%. That was my first impression of the iPod. Small.And finally. I bought it the first day it was released in Hong Kong.
Compare today's iPod with the first iPod. The first iPod looks pretty clunky now, doesn't it?
http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/
Benzo's better look out, he might end up like Sir Alan Sugar, or worse Sir Clive Sinclair (if you make enough useless crap electronic devices the Queen will give you a knighthood for sure).
One real difference between the Reader and the Kindle (besides internet access) is that I can download PDF books and upload them to my Reader. It's not the best, but it is possible. Another pro for the Reader is that all my books are on my computer, so I have a back up.
Prices seem better on Amazon for the Kindle than on the Sony bookstore. It seems that Sony's prices have dropped after the Kindle reached market. Competition is good!
I think the design of the Reader is better than the Kindle. I haven't actually held or seen a Kindle but from the pictures, the Reader looks more graceful. It is small, light and easy to hold and read.
Until I was faced with the problem of traveling for so long with so many flights (and waiting for flights), I would have never thought I'd like an eBook. But I do. For its purpose, it's great.
The Kindle DOES have PC connectivity built in, via USB connection. They just say that you will rarely need it as content is delivered on the FREE mobile phone connection. They will even let you download the same content over and over again, so no need to back it up to the PC either.
Kindle also had an SD card slot for extra storage, I suspect you will also find that it is updatd to allow you to add your own content via the card or PC in the future.
10cents charge per file transferred over that USB port.
10cents charge per file transferred over that USB port.
Isn't that because it has to be sent to Amazon to parse into the Kindle format and then sent back again?
I read just about everything on the web. The one thing that I am interested in reading on the monitor is a book. I like the portability of the book. I like the feel of the page. I don't want to fall asleep with some appliance hanging over my head.
But can you explain this to the folks at Sony or Amazon. Of course not. This is like the other pointless pursuit of handwriting recognition. We all know what a bloody joke that was/is!
Add the e-book joke. I give the Amazon spindle, kaffufle whatever, 2 months before it dies a quite death. I think the owner of Amazon has too much time on his hands. And certainly too much $. Maybe he should join Messers Gates & Buffet in spreading some $ and good will aroudn the planet. Start with Iraq.
ejr1959_oz
Online retailer Amazon grabbed the spotlight on Monday when it announced the Kindle, a handheld e-book reader it says should do for digital text what Apple's iPod has done for music.
Amazon hopes that it can break e-book reading out of its niche by integrating unique hardware with a special online service, similar to the teamwork shown between the iPod and the iTunes Store.
Key to the integration is the device's built-in, pervasive Internet access and a special section of Amazon's online store dedicated to digital publications. Instead of using short-range Wi-Fi, the Kindle taps into Sprint's much larger 3G cellular network and uses this primarily to load its content on to the device: although it has an SD card slot and a USB cable, Amazon expects most users to download their reading material online, regardless of where they may be.
Titled Whispernet, the Amazon's access is completely free to use: owners are only charged for what they buy, not for the bandwidth used. Most of this buying will be done through Amazon's own digital bookstore, the company says.
Echoing part of Apple's approach to the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store, the Kindle can buy text online without requiring a computer. It also offers more than just individual book downloads and lets users subscribe to magazines and newspapers that are automatically downloaded shortly after the print version is published.
Costs range from $1.25 per month for some magazines to $10 for a typical book and $15 for a subscription to an international paper such as Le Monde.
And like the iPod touch, the Kindle can also browse the web: while RSS feeds of certain blogs are available in a Kindle-ready format for one to two dollars each per month, the reader also includes a basic web browser and quick access to Wikipedia.
The handheld even has its own e-mail address to receive web pages, Word files, and images as attachments for ten cents each.
No matter how attractive the product, however, Amazon's Kindle launch may have unintentionally mirrored the climate surrounding the 2001 introduction of the iPod. Like the Apple jukebox, the Kindle is launching at $399 into a market which has yet to fully embrace the product category. Still, Amazon -- which based its core business on selling books as far back as 1994 -- hopes it can make e-book readers as common place as digital media players are today.
The retailer said it plans to begin shipping Kindle on Wednesday.