The Wii: does it do it for you? How much longer until it's passed by?

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  • Reply 101 of 164
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    backtomac:



    The Wii is marketed towards essentially all demographics. Its appeal is universal, which is why it is such a tremendous success. I have already linked to a commercial for a Nintendo game that is aimed directly at an older market. Hilarious that you guys pretend it is just for little kids when they have ads for successful games aimed directly at older groups.



    Quote:

    I went to Gamestop's website and looked at the titles that are shipping on the Wii and the ESRB ratings. Do you know how many games shipping fro the Wii have a rating of "M"? Two. A few "T" but about 90% are rated "E".



    What does "E" stand for? Everyone



    The mistake in logic you are making is that an "M" rating is aimed at an older market.

    Perhaps another mistake is thinking that 13-year-olds qualify as either "older" or "mature".
  • Reply 102 of 164
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    backtomac:



    The Wii is marketed towards essentially all demographics. Its appeal is universal, which is why it is such a tremendous success. I have already linked to a commercial for a Nintendo game that is aimed directly at an older market. Hilarious that you guys pretend it is just for little kids when they have ads for successful games aimed directly at older groups.







    What does "E" stand for? Everyone



    The mistake in logic you are making is that an "M" rating is aimed at an older market.

    Perhaps another mistake is thinking that 13-year-olds qualify as either "older" or "mature".



    I GIVE UP!
  • Reply 103 of 164
    Just to jump in with my 2 cents here...



    I bought a Wii around 3 months ago and this quote pretty much sums up how I feel about it:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    I don't want a stupid, rehash FPS to suck me in for 5 hours at a time. I want to play something fun for 30 minutes after I come home from work...



    I'm not looking for something to spend hours a night trying to beat. I want something that's fun for a few minutes when I get home from work and then put away and get on with my life. Some low-commitment entertainment in the evenings.



    I think a lot of the Wii's success IS the fact that it can be enjoyed by anyone. My girlfriend is totally happy to play a round of Wii tennis for 30-45 minutes, but not nearly as likely to sit around and play Halo with me for 5 hours. Likewise, when I've had people over for parties at my place, the Wii is an instant "party game" whereas no one's clamoring to play a FPS for the entire evening.



    My parents came to visit not long ago and had a blast with it. My Mom is much more likely to play Wii tennis than Halo and I think a big reason is the intimidation factor. The controls for so many FPS games have a steep learning curve. A novice fumbles around while being blown to bits over and over again and it's more frustrating that enjoyable. On the other hand - almost anyone can point the Wii-mote at the screen and press 1 or 2 buttons. It has a very small learning curve and much less frustration for the casual user. Nintendo understands that and as a result has captured a market that the other makers were ignoring.



    If that's what you're looking for the Wii totally fits the bill, regardless of age.
  • Reply 104 of 164
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,280moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    You are quoting a Sony executive as evidence about their rival?



    Their biggest rival is Microsoft and yet they don't suggest the XBox 360 is targeted at kids. Wonder why that would be.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    Have you played Super Mario Sunshine? It's a fair question, because if you really don't see a distinction I can't help but believe that you haven't played it.



    Yes <- Caution: that may be completely fabricated evidence.



    I actually have played it before (not for long as it was the same as all the other Mario games). I've played all the Mario SNES games and most of Mario 64. All the same gameplay mechanics to me.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    Warioware can get extremely intense

    Wii bowling can get pretty intense

    I can't think of a more intense level of gaming than the speeder-jump section on Battletoads NES. Battletoads



    You and I clearly have different definitions of what intense means.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    Oh, indeed!



    Well yeah, think about it. If a game is targeted to everyone - in other words children as young as 3 - how can it possibly be that intense?



    Let me put it another way: would you want to watch Saw 4 and would you allow children to watch it? If your answer is no then you admit that some content is too intense for younger and possibly older viewers mainly female. The people who aren't the target audience for Saw 4 *are* the target audience for Nintendo - i.e the emotionally weaker/immature members of society.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    So your argument also involves that old chestnut, "It is because it is!"? Astounding.



    Nope, it means the argument involves factors that are not universally quantifiable.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    You played a Harry Potter game and you were put off by magic and cheesy dialogue? Why did you even play a Harry Potter game? Do you know what Harry Potter is?



    I was led to believe that Harry Potter could be enjoyed by young and old alike. I was also testing graphics performance as it used the UT2k engine. This was a few years back.



    Why are you surprised though? Are you finally admitting that some games/franchises are designed solely for children?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    Playing a video game of any kind is not like having sex in any way at all. A kid playing Postal 2 is in no way like a kid having sex. There is absolutely no correlation. Even the most shrill of moral nannies that hate videogames would make such an amazingly stupid argument.



    Sex?? See what I was saying about keeping your sex life out of it. I said that blowing someone's head off with a sniper rifle is not the same as collecting a spinning star and by saying that, was like equating kissing to sex. I didn't equate gaming to sex. Anyway, what you do with your Wii-mote is your own business.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    Nintendo markets games to people older than young-teen->early-20s. Go watch a Wii/DS commercial. It's got people from little kids to grandparents.



    That's what we've been saying except you seem to want to cover the hardcore gamers too. Nintendo don't target people from little kids to grandparents, they target little kids and grandparents, possibly parents (though all male parents I know go for PC, PSP or PS2 gaming). People in between don't like Nintendo products.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    aimed directly at real adults (not immature boys). (Do you see what I just did? I just made an argument and then I backed it up with real evidence of that argument's veracity!)



    Actually you made a contradiction. You said it's not targeted at immature boys while also saying it is targeted at little kids.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat View Post


    Why doesn't it add up? It doesn't add up because you do not know how to formulate an argument. You hop from thought to thought, without any conception of just how asinine the formulation of those thoughts might be.



    It doesn't add up because you contradicted yourself.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flounder


    The most intense video game experience of my life, easily, was marikoart on an N64 in college. We'd go to war on that thing; it was far more intense than when we played Bond.



    Clearly, mariokart is more "intense" and "mature" than any fps.



    I can make sweeping anecdotal arguments without supporting evidence too. Wheeeeeeee!



    Careful, Groverat will pick up on the fact you admitted you just made an anecdotal argument, which means everything you say is irrelevant.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat


    The Wii is marketed towards essentially all demographics. Its appeal is universal



    Clearly not, judging by the amount of people who would never buy one.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groverat


    Hilarious that you guys pretend it is just for little kids when they have ads for successful games aimed directly at older groups.



    Maybe you were asleep (understandable since you're not a hardcore gamer) when it was mentioned numerous times that the target market for Nintendo is 0-15 and 30+. Brain Training obviously isn't for kids because it's one of the most boring games ever invented but it isn't for hardcore gamers either.



    Brain Training is for people who are on the downward slope of life. They've had the kids, the career and now they are just decomposing so to help prevent losing their marbles, they waste hours doing simple infant-level mathematics. Now sure you may say that an OAP is more mature than an 18 year old but a game consisting of infantile sums is hardly a mature game so it doesn't add up, so to speak.
  • Reply 105 of 164
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,280moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corkurk View Post


    JI'm not looking for something to spend hours a night trying to beat. I want something that's fun for a few minutes when I get home from work and then put away and get on with my life. Some low-commitment entertainment in the evenings.



    Trouble is that when you do want an in-depth gameplay experience, it's not there. The PSP, PS3 etc have games with short levels. In fact very few games have levels that take longer than 30 minutes. if they do, they have a save point somewhere in the middle.



    With an FPS game, you could be an agent on a cargo ship trying to infiltrate a Russian enemy on one level for 30 minutes. The next level you could be in camouflage in the jungle trying to track down a device from Columbian drug lords.



    Wii tennis is just tennis all the time. The only variation you get is different court surfaces. So you wouldn't want to play it for more than 30 minutes or you'd get insanely bored with it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corkurk View Post


    My girlfriend

    people over for parties at my place

    My parents

    My Mom



    I know, I know, anecdotal again.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corkurk View Post


    If that's what you're looking for the Wii totally fits the bill, regardless of age.



    That's right, the majority of people in the 15-30 age group just aren't looking for that type of entertainment.
  • Reply 106 of 164
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    Grover,



    You're really quite persistent in your feeling that the WIi is not marketed towards a younger demographic.



    I went to Gamestop's website and looked at the titles that are shipping on the Wii and the ESRB ratings. Do you know how many games shipping fro the Wii have a rating of "M"? Two. A few "T" but about 90% are rated "E".



    What more evidence do you need?



    They rejected this as evidence. /shrug That's why I haven't bothered with any further facts because it simply would get ignored because it doesn't fit their odd world model.
  • Reply 107 of 164
    iposteriposter Posts: 1,560member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Let me put it another way: would you want to watch Saw 4 and would you allow children to watch it? If your answer is no then you admit that some content is too intense for younger and possibly older viewers mainly female. The people who aren't the target audience for Saw 4 *are* the target audience for Nintendo - i.e the emotionally weaker/immature members of society.



    I was going to stay out of this argument, but that is among the most ignorant and self-centered things I've ever read on the internet.







    violence != maturity



    \
  • Reply 108 of 164
    flounderflounder Posts: 2,674member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPoster View Post


    I was going to stay out of this argument, but that is among the most ignorant and self-centered things I've ever read on the internet.







    violence != maturity



    \



    It's quite the irony that Marvin shows a fairly low level of maturity in most of his posts in this thread.



    I mean, the idea that if you're, I don't know, not into, disturbed by or whatever the blood, gore, bad dialogue, and derivative plot of your standard horror movie you're immature and emotionally weak...... it's pretty laughable.



    Plus, that post seems to indicate that Marvin thinks women are inherently weaker and emotionally immature.



    Let me tell you, you'll never get laid in college with that attitude.
  • Reply 109 of 164
    A shop was playing the running demo of Beowulf game for PS3. Quite disturbing really. I didn't even want to see the film. Robert Z. My god, what happened to him? After BackToTheFuture and Contact....
  • Reply 110 of 164
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flounder View Post


    It's quite the irony that Marvin shows a fairly low level of maturity in most of his posts in this thread.



    I mean, the idea that if you're, I don't know, not into, disturbed by or whatever the blood, gore, bad dialogue, and derivative plot of your standard horror movie you're immature and emotionally weak...... it's pretty laughable.



    Plus, that post seems to indicate that Marvin thinks women are inherently weaker and emotionally immature.



    Let me tell you, you'll never get laid in college with that attitude.



    Women like to be treated like shit. Trust me. Next time you see your girlfriend or wife, slap her, and she'll want you, bad.
  • Reply 111 of 164
    successsuccess Posts: 1,040member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Brain Training is for people who are on the downward slope of life. They've had the kids, the career and now they are just decomposing so to help prevent losing their marbles, they waste hours doing simple infant-level mathematics.



    wow...guess who needs it then? What a Fu_ktard.
  • Reply 112 of 164
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by success View Post


    wow...guess who needs it then? What a Fu_ktard.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    ...Brain Training is for people who are on the downward slope of life. They've had the kids, the career and now they are just decomposing so to help prevent losing their marbles, they waste hours doing simple infant-level mathematics. Now sure you may say that an OAP is more mature than an 18 year old but a game consisting of infantile sums is hardly a mature game so it doesn't add up, so to speak...



    My mum plays a lot of Mahjong now on her iBook G4. Keeps her sharp, helps her keep up the cooking, cleaning, driving for the family..... muah ha ha ha ha ha.
  • Reply 113 of 164
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rich-Myster View Post


    Women like to be treated like shit. Trust me. Next time you see your girlfriend or wife, slap her, and she'll want you, bad.



    Nope, didn't work. Dammit! Now I'll be spending time with Mr. Hand for the next few months.
  • Reply 114 of 164
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,280moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPoster View Post


    I was going to stay out of this argument, but that is among the most ignorant and self-centered things I've ever read on the internet.



    New to the internet are you? Also it only becomes an argument when people reduce it to name-calling, so please don't do that, just allow the grown ups to discuss the subject rationally.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPoster View Post


    violence != maturity



    \



    Violence requires maturity.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flounder


    It's quite the irony that Marvin shows a fairly low level of maturity in most of his posts in this thread.



    Again, that depends on what your definition of maturity is. I would say that if you are the type of person who plays kids games then you are immature. If a grown man comes onto an internet forum and says they enjoy Mario Galaxy and then calls me immature, then sorry but that's where the irony is.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flounder


    I mean, the idea that if you're, I don't know, not into, disturbed by or whatever the blood, gore, bad dialogue, and derivative plot of your standard horror movie you're immature and emotionally weak...... it's pretty laughable.



    Only someone who is emotionally weak would find that funny.



    How can you not see what you are saying? You are questioning that if someone is disturbed by something then they are emotionally weak. You just *defined* emotionally weak.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flounder


    Plus, that post seems to indicate that Marvin thinks women are inherently weaker and emotionally immature.



    And you seem to be indicating that you ignore common knowledge. Women are genetically the emotionally weaker sex. It doesn't apply to all women but I'm generalizing.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flounder


    Let me tell you, you'll never get laid in college with that attitude.



    Long past college I'm afraid and I had more success at getting laid than the emotionally weak individuals who ended up in dead-end marriages playing with their Wiis (that is not a generalization btw).



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nVidia2008


    I didn't even want to see the film.



    You know Angelina Jolie's in it right?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sucess


    wow...guess who needs it then? What a Fu_ktard.



    I need to practice infant-level mathematics to engage in a conversation with you guys? Is that to lower myself to your level or something? So that instead of actually discussing a subject, I can simply call you a name and feel good about myself?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008


    Nope, didn't work. Dammit! Now I'll be spending time with Mr. Hand for the next few months.



    Don't you mean Mrs. Hand?
  • Reply 115 of 164
    flounderflounder Posts: 2,674member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Violence requires maturity.



    That's the most hilariously wrong thing I've ever heard



    Quote:

    How can you not see what you are saying? You are questioning that if someone is disturbed by something then they are emotionally weak. You just *defined* emotionally weak.



    OK, so you have no clue what emotionally weak means



    Quote:

    And you seem to be indicating that you ignore common knowledge. Women are genetically the emotionally weaker sex. It doesn't apply to all women but I'm generalizing.



    Well, I'm pretty sure my sisters, with there respective PhDs in biochemistry and molecular biology, would disagree with you.



    As someone with a degree in epidemiology, I know that I disagree with you. Would you care to point out the genetic epidemiology studies that support your point? How, pray tell, is 'weaker' defined? Since this is such common knowledge, surely you can easily go to pub med and pull the papers right up!



    Quote:

    Long past college I'm afraid and I had more success at getting laid than the emotionally weak individuals who ended up in dead-end marriages playing with their Wiis (that is not a generalization btw).



    Interesting. You're general attitude sure does a pretty good imitation of a fifteen-year-old
  • Reply 116 of 164
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Marvin:



    Quote:

    Their biggest rival is Microsoft and yet they don't suggest the XBox 360 is targeted at kids. Wonder why that would be.



    Because it is not a popular way to attack the XBox, that's why. This doesn't change the fact that it is unwise to use employees of rival companies as sources in this kind of discussion.



    Quote:

    I actually have played it before (not for long as it was the same as all the other Mario games). I've played all the Mario SNES games and most of Mario 64. All the same gameplay mechanics to me.



    So a sidescrolling jumper is the same as running around in 3D and shooting things with water cannons and flying on water jets?



    I won't really argue, but Wolf3D has more similar mechanics to Crysis than Mario Brothers NES has to Super Mario Sunshine.



    Quote:

    You and I clearly have different definitions of what intense means.



    Yes, I have a definition that is technical and correct and yours is unnecessarily selective with the sole purpose of backing your argument.



    Quote:

    If a game is targeted to everyone - in other words children as young as 3 - how can it possibly be that intense?



    intense - \\in-'ten(t)s\\

    1 a: existing in an extreme degree <the excitement was intense> <intense pain> b: having or showing a characteristic in extreme degree <intense colors>

    2: marked by or expressive of great zeal, energy, determination, or concentration <intense effort>

    3 a: exhibiting strong feeling or earnestness of purpose <an intense student> b: deeply felt



    What about any of that is incompatible with an "E" rating?



    Quote:

    Nope, it means the argument involves factors that are not universally quantifiable.



    Make an effort to explain it. You cannot just say "the Wii isn't as cool, because it isn't as cool". I am sure that this is true for some narrow group in society, but there is no reason for us to restrict this conversation to just those that reject Nintendo as childish because they wish to think it.



    Quote:

    Why are you surprised though? Are you finally admitting that some games/franchises are designed solely for children?



    When did I ever argue that some franchises were not designed solely for children? Barbie Adventures are not in any way meant for people older than 10. Zelda and Mario games are designed for a much larger age range.



    Quote:

    That's what we've been saying except you seem to want to cover the hardcore gamers too. Nintendo don't target people from little kids to grandparents, they target little kids and grandparents, possibly parents (though all male parents I know go for PC, PSP or PS2 gaming). People in between don't like Nintendo products.



    Who are "hardcore gamers"? If you define "hardcore gamer" as "doesn't own a Nintendo product" then it would make sense, because it is defined specifically to suit your own argument.



    What category does someone who owns a PS3/XBox 360 and a Wii fit into?



    Quote:

    Actually you made a contradiction. You said it's not targeted at immature boys while also saying it is targeted at little kids.



    That individual game is aimed at adults, not immature boys. There are plenty of Nintendo games aimed at immature boys.



    Quote:

    Careful, Groverat will pick up on the fact you admitted you just made an anecdotal argument, which means everything you say is irrelevant.



    If you make the argument that Nintendo does not make games with intensity then all I need is a single example to disprove it. Anecdotal evidence works fine when the question is so dramatic and categorical. Any "All X do/do not Y" statement is easily eviscerated by evidence even as weak as anecdotal evidence.



    And in the meantime, you provide absolutely no evidence of any kind except anecdotal evidence. It is something when my weakest argument is as strong as your strongest argument, eh?



    Quote:

    Clearly not, judging by the amount of people who would never buy one.



    What is this amount? The Wii cannot stay on shelves long enough to test this hypothesis of yours. Meanwhile, I play Orange Box and Mario Galaxy in the same week and wonder why I haven't split in half to fit in your asinine categories.



    Quote:

    Maybe you were asleep (understandable since you're not a hardcore gamer) when it was mentioned numerous times that the target market for Nintendo is 0-15 and 30+.



    Where do you get this information?



    Quote:

    Trouble is that when you do want an in-depth gameplay experience, it's not there.



    What are the characteristics of an "in-depth gameplay experience"?



    Quote:

    With an FPS game, you could be an agent on a cargo ship trying to infiltrate a Russian enemy on one level for 30 minutes. The next level you could be in camouflage in the jungle trying to track down a device from Columbian drug lords.



    Far Cry - Wii

    Resident Evil - Wii

    Call of Duty - Wii

    Manhunt 2 - Wii



    Quote:

    Violence requires maturity.



    Explain this, because it is beyond me how this could be offered as a statement worth considering.



    Quote:

    Long past college I'm afraid and I had more success at getting laid than the emotionally weak individuals who ended up in dead-end marriages playing with their Wiis (that is not a generalization btw).



    Beautiful.



    So you're a grown man and you think playing a Sony/Microsoft-brand video game is objectively cooler than playing a Nintendo-brand video game?



    I AM A VERY IMPRESSIVE MAN! I HAVE SEX WITH MANY WOMEN!
  • Reply 117 of 164
    successsuccess Posts: 1,040member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    I need to practice infant-level mathematics to engage in a conversation with you guys? Is that to lower myself to your level or something? So that instead of actually discussing a subject, I can simply call you a name and feel good about myself?



    It worked for me.
  • Reply 118 of 164
    guarthoguartho Posts: 1,208member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    I had more success at getting laid than the emotionally weak individuals who ended up in dead-end marriages playing with their Wiis (that is not a generalization btw).



    You drive a Hummer and buy lots of products with 'X-TREME' in the name, don't you?
  • Reply 119 of 164
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Guartho View Post


    You drive a Hummer and buy lots of products with 'X-TREME' in the name, don't you?



    Haha. I agree with Marvin though. Even though rated E games may be "intense", they do not have the same intensity as rated M games. Bowling is not the same as, what Marvin said, blowing peoples heads off with a sniper rifle.
  • Reply 120 of 164
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rich-Myster View Post


    Haha. I agree with Marvin though. Even though rated E games may be "intense", they do not have the same intensity as rated M games. Bowling is not the same as, what Marvin said, blowing peoples heads off with a sniper rifle.



    Presumably you are talking about GTA since most other rated M games with sniper rifles don't depict people's heads being blown off. In GTA this activity is typically not intense in any way, especially considering it's almost always done in the process of lazy, casual gaming, in scenarios where you can't even lose and, at worst, might get you a couple stars. The only time it really results in anything approaching intense is if you get enough stars to have truckloads of authorities coming after you, in which case the intensity comes from the fast action and high level of activity, not the in-game act of sniping.



    Multiplayer Mario Kart (ESRB rating: E) is certainly more "intense" than sniping people in a GTA series game. In fact, multiplayer Mario Kart is just as "intense" and results in just as much exciting competition as any other action-heavy multiplayer game like Halo or COD.
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