At $400 it should be able to have these apps built in, It's not like the unit has a 160 Gig Hard drive built in that we're paying for, it has 16 G, and came with SHIT.
.
Again. If at $400 it should have had all those features, then you should not have bought it. You knew what features were included, and you decided it was worth $400. To claim that it is not worth that contradicts your actions. Be consistent.
That car you bought last month had GPS data from 2007. Next month they GPS data in new cars gets 2008 data. Think you get that for free?
In many cases, yes.
There's no reason for apple to charge for this, especially since these were all apps that already existed on the iPhone, so it cost apple nothing extra to put them on the touch. Are they charging appleTV owners for the software upgrade? Nope.
A dumb move like this is just going to encourage people to wait for version 1.1 of any apple product, particularly ones with obvious missing features. People bought the touch under the assumption that the missing apps would be added, and Jobs even admitted that leaving off things like notes and mail was a mistake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skottichan
The iPod is for playing audio and video media, the addition of Safari and Youtube are wonderful bonuses, but it still doesn't make the iPod a phone/web device.
What the hell are you talking about? The touch surfs the web. It's a web device as well as a media player. Period. Insisting that a web device isn't a web device just because it shares a brand name with media players is just idiotic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad
Charging for updates that are free on the iPhone does look like a rip off, but consider the alternative...
2008 Touch includes new features
2007 Touch owners are stuck with the features that shipped in 2007
Way to ignore the most obvious alternative, and the one consistent with what apple has done with virtually every other product that has recieved a software update - GIVE EXISTING USERS THE UPDATE FOR FREE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad
Do you people honestly expect to get the next 5 years' worth of added features free?
I'm not sure where you got the "5 years" thing from, this unit has only been out FOUR MONTHS. But until they change the hardware, I absolutely would expect free software updates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core
I really fail to understand this concept of entitlement, i.e., that the purchase of a device obligates the developer to provide updates, new functionality and services for free.
I wouldn't say that people are "entitled" to get a free update.
But apple has set a precedent of free updates to many of their products. They just did it with the aTV. They did it with the 5G ipod. They did it with the iPhone. They have done it many times with new features in point updates to OSX.
Sure, apple doesn't have to give a free update. They're not obligated to. But they are a company that sells products, and giving a free update makes customers happy, while charging $20 for one, especially for a product that has only been out four months, makes customers pissed off.
And happy customers are more likely to keep buying apple products than pissed off customers. As an apple stockholder, I am NOT happy about seeing the company make idiot moves like this that are likely to make very little extra income but generate a bunch of ill will toward the company.
Honestly, I'm pretty shocked to see so many people coming to apple's defense on this one. I just don't get it.
I know, folks are going to bag on me for wasting 20 bucks or why Steve has been ripping us off for years. But not having to reboot my machine everytime I install anything, including plug and play is worth a few extra bucks for me.
Onto thread
So, 20 bucks, a hard factory restore , reinstall of 1.1.3 and wow, the aps actually appear this time. Seems like Apple didn't take into account that prob _NONE_ of the users (like myself) bothered to upgrade their iTouch from 1.1.1 to 1.1.2 and likely got a fail on the 1.1.1 > 1.1.3 upgrade.
That will show me for not installing every possible upgrade that Apple throws our way.
Weather is ok,
Stocks- who cares I'm broke from buying Apple stuff anyway,
Notes - is ok since you can email them off the ipod
Mail - works with beta domain into Gmail nicely - much better than gmail via Safari, imho.
Maps - very interesting on how ID's your location: anyone have an idea?
EDIT: Ok, I should watch the presentation before asking - done via Google/SkyHook mapping.
And um, Steve left of Calendar... Previously Calendar wouldn't let you save anything - so if you didn't sync from your Mac it was good for nothing. Now you can make appointmetns on the iTouch and sync them back to your Mac - still not that useful in the business world.
I wonder how Steve is going to squeze another 20 out of each of us next time...
Again. If at $400 it should have had all those features, then you should not have bought it. You knew what features were included, and you decided it was worth $400. To claim that it is not worth that contradicts your actions. Be consistent.
That line frequently heard here is both preposterous and asinine.
c.) If I bought a Mac before Leopard came out, I'd have to pay for the upgrade, but new ones get Leopard bundled for free. Congratulations, you've made the world's weakest argument for free-for-life operating system upgrades.
Bad analogy. Think if you bought a MacBook with Leopard and it didn't have all the OS features of a Macbook Pro on sale at the same time. Then later Apple goes and says they'll put them on all Macbooks but existing Macbook users will have to pay for them. That would piss off a lot of people.
I wouldn't say that people are "entitled" to get a free update.
But apple has set a precedent of free updates to many of their products. They just did it with the aTV. They did it with the 5G ipod. They did it with the iPhone. They have done it many times with new features in point updates to OSX.
Dammit Apple! This guy is absolutely right. How stupid can one be.
It is obvious Steve, that you should stop giving updates for free, and everybody will be happy.
I'm not convinced on how it's preposterous and asinine, although both are good vocabulary words.
More than preposterous and asinine, it's basic economics. You put a price on something, if it's worth it, people buy it. If not they don't.
Basic human behavior: they will complain about it nevertheless.
I've never complained about any apple product that i've ever owned. My company probably owns 10 times the apple products than 90% of the people on this board. I've been a very loyal customer since the early days and have the right to be pissed when they try to pull this type of shit.
Okay, I am going to be pretentious... but pretty much every point on here agreeing with the $20 price tag is utter bullshit. This is the truth, let it seep in and stop ragging our asses for crying...
Apple TV got it's 2.0 UPGRADE for free. After a year. But that's okay to Apple because AppleTV's a failing product. Apple knows they can gouge the iPod crowd and it's bullshit. It's not fair. Simple as that. Not every iPod touch user is a kid with rich parents dicking around on the internet.
Okay, I am going to be pretentious... but pretty much every point on here agreeing with the $20 price tag is utter bullshit. This is the truth, let it seep in and stop ragging our asses for crying:
Apple TV got it's 2.0 UPGRADE for free. After a year. But that's okay to Apple because AppleTV's a failing product. Apple knows they can gouge the iPod crowd and it's bullshit. It's not fair. Simple as that. Not every iPod touch user is a kid with rich parents dicking around on the internet
Again, apple tv doesn't compare. subscription service, different accounting structures, on and on ad nauseum.
much every point on here agreeing with the $20 price tag is utter bullshit. This is the truth, let it seep in and stop ragging our asses for crying:
You have swayed me with your brilliant application of logic!
Quote:
Originally Posted by haveyoumetmark
Apple TV got it's 2.0 UPGRADE for free. After a year. But that's okay to Apple because AppleTV's a failing product. Apple knows they can gouge the iPod crowd and it's bullshit. It's not fair. Simple as that. Not every iPod touch user is a kid with rich parents dicking around on the internet
Oh I see. It's not fair! Another brilliant argument.
It's not fair, wah wah wah! Grow up.
If you don't want to pay the $20, don't buy the upgrade and don't get the apps! Simple. No bitching and moaning necessary, the iPod touch still does all the things it could do when you bought it, and if that's not enough for you - why did you buy it?
I?d like to say at this point that in the last 3 years i?ve spent somehwere in the region of a quarter of a million pounds on Apple products, thats around half a million dollars. I dislike the assumption on an earlier post that if we?re not happy with the pay to upgrade situation that we?re moaners. Quite the opposite, however on this occasion i feel like i?m no longer a valued customer but a revenue stream-not a feeling one normally associates with the Apple ownership experience.
From a UK perspective i suggest Apple start making some pretty express statements about functionality and features-quick. The consumer laws here are very robust and for example give us a 28 days grace period. You cannot under the sales of goods act sell an item and then add additional functionality at a charge whilst at the same time offering it for free as a bundle.
Theres also another angle of concern, what about non-Apple stockist. A new Touch unsold but brand new is now competing at a £13.00 disadvantage. Talk about a heavily discriminated supply chain.
All in all this all points to one thing, a minefield for would be conusmers and existing owners alike. Steve don?t take your customers for fools. At the same time if theres a credible reason for the charge why not take to the time inform us. And whilst we?re on the subject of pricing, why is the new ATV $160.00 more in the UK than the US. Credibility is for me at an all time low, it shows that the comments about the Itunes store and price transparency across Europe only apply when there not Apples own products and don't reflect their US pricing.
All in all so disappointing for this Apple fan!
PS of course ATV had a free upgrade, in its new guise it will generate more profit which purchases! No one forced Apple to account for the Touch using SOX and quite honestly they spin the whole SOX thing to their advantage regardless.
Again, apple tv doesn't compare. subscription service, different accounting structures, on and on ad nauseum.
Not really. It's just as much a subscription service as iPod is with iTunes... the only reason it doesn't compare is because it's a failing product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H
You have swayed me with your brilliant application of logic!
Oh I see. It's not fair! Another brilliant argument.
It's not fair, wah wah wah! Grow up.
If you don't want to pay the $20, don't buy the upgrade and don't get the apps! Simple. No bitching and moaning necessary, the iPod touch still does all the things it could do when you bought it, and if that's not enough for you - why did you buy it?
Had I known that Apple were going to pull shit like this, I wouldn't have bought it. You steered away from my point. It's gouging at it's best and it is unfair.
Quit bitching and moaning. Wah Wah Wah! Don't open the thread then. You now very well know what it entails.
I dislike the assumption on an earlier post that if we?re not happy with the pay to upgrade situation that we?re moaners.
It's not an assumption, it is fact. If you come in here complaining about the upgrade fee, that is moaning by definition.
That's not to say that you have to like the idea of paying to get the upgrade. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But don't piss and moan that you should be getting it for free - there is no argument that justifies the expectation that addtional functionality is a right and should be given out for free. I can see why it annoyes people, of course; but the expectation for free upgrades is not justified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartz
The consumer laws here are very robust and for example give us a 28 days grace period. You cannot under the sales of goods act sell an item and then add additional functionality at a charge whilst at the same time offering it for free as a bundle.
That's a new one on me. Evidence please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smartz
And whilst we?re on the subject of pricing, why is the new ATV $160.00 more in the UK than the US. Credibility is for me at an all time low, it shows that the comments about the Itunes store and price transparency across Europe only apply when there not Apples own products and don't reflect their US pricing.
Not really. It's just as much a subscription service as iPod is with iTunes... the only reason it doesn't compare is because it's a failing product.
a good reason, but not the only reason.
"...only the iPhone and Apple TV are currently using Apple's "subscription revenue" accounting model."
if what people are saying about sec regulations are true, then that would be why products that fall under the subscription revenue model can have updates without fees and others (like the ipod) need to have charges attached to them.
i haven't heard anybody argue yet that the regulations requiring apple to charge for this upgrade under its accounting model do not apply, if you can do it, you'd be the first.
Comments
At $400 it should be able to have these apps built in, It's not like the unit has a 160 Gig Hard drive built in that we're paying for, it has 16 G, and came with SHIT.
.
Again. If at $400 it should have had all those features, then you should not have bought it. You knew what features were included, and you decided it was worth $400. To claim that it is not worth that contradicts your actions. Be consistent.
That car you bought last month had GPS data from 2007. Next month they GPS data in new cars gets 2008 data. Think you get that for free?
In many cases, yes.
There's no reason for apple to charge for this, especially since these were all apps that already existed on the iPhone, so it cost apple nothing extra to put them on the touch. Are they charging appleTV owners for the software upgrade? Nope.
A dumb move like this is just going to encourage people to wait for version 1.1 of any apple product, particularly ones with obvious missing features. People bought the touch under the assumption that the missing apps would be added, and Jobs even admitted that leaving off things like notes and mail was a mistake.
The iPod is for playing audio and video media, the addition of Safari and Youtube are wonderful bonuses, but it still doesn't make the iPod a phone/web device.
What the hell are you talking about? The touch surfs the web. It's a web device as well as a media player. Period. Insisting that a web device isn't a web device just because it shares a brand name with media players is just idiotic.
Charging for updates that are free on the iPhone does look like a rip off, but consider the alternative...
2008 Touch includes new features
2007 Touch owners are stuck with the features that shipped in 2007
Way to ignore the most obvious alternative, and the one consistent with what apple has done with virtually every other product that has recieved a software update - GIVE EXISTING USERS THE UPDATE FOR FREE.
Do you people honestly expect to get the next 5 years' worth of added features free?
I'm not sure where you got the "5 years" thing from, this unit has only been out FOUR MONTHS. But until they change the hardware, I absolutely would expect free software updates.
I really fail to understand this concept of entitlement, i.e., that the purchase of a device obligates the developer to provide updates, new functionality and services for free.
I wouldn't say that people are "entitled" to get a free update.
But apple has set a precedent of free updates to many of their products. They just did it with the aTV. They did it with the 5G ipod. They did it with the iPhone. They have done it many times with new features in point updates to OSX.
Sure, apple doesn't have to give a free update. They're not obligated to. But they are a company that sells products, and giving a free update makes customers happy, while charging $20 for one, especially for a product that has only been out four months, makes customers pissed off.
And happy customers are more likely to keep buying apple products than pissed off customers. As an apple stockholder, I am NOT happy about seeing the company make idiot moves like this that are likely to make very little extra income but generate a bunch of ill will toward the company.
Honestly, I'm pretty shocked to see so many people coming to apple's defense on this one. I just don't get it.
I know, folks are going to bag on me for wasting 20 bucks or why Steve has been ripping us off for years. But not having to reboot my machine everytime I install anything, including plug and play is worth a few extra bucks for me.
Onto thread
So, 20 bucks, a hard factory restore , reinstall of 1.1.3 and wow, the aps actually appear this time. Seems like Apple didn't take into account that prob _NONE_ of the users (like myself) bothered to upgrade their iTouch from 1.1.1 to 1.1.2 and likely got a fail on the 1.1.1 > 1.1.3 upgrade.
That will show me for not installing every possible upgrade that Apple throws our way.
Weather is ok,
Stocks- who cares I'm broke from buying Apple stuff anyway,
Notes - is ok since you can email them off the ipod
Mail - works with beta domain into Gmail nicely - much better than gmail via Safari, imho.
Maps - very interesting on how ID's your location: anyone have an idea?
EDIT: Ok, I should watch the presentation before asking - done via Google/SkyHook mapping.
And um, Steve left of Calendar... Previously Calendar wouldn't let you save anything - so if you didn't sync from your Mac it was good for nothing. Now you can make appointmetns on the iTouch and sync them back to your Mac - still not that useful in the business world.
I wonder how Steve is going to squeze another 20 out of each of us next time...
Again. If at $400 it should have had all those features, then you should not have bought it. You knew what features were included, and you decided it was worth $400. To claim that it is not worth that contradicts your actions. Be consistent.
That line frequently heard here is both preposterous and asinine.
Jesus. Give it a rest with this crybaby shit.
...
c.) If I bought a Mac before Leopard came out, I'd have to pay for the upgrade, but new ones get Leopard bundled for free. Congratulations, you've made the world's weakest argument for free-for-life operating system upgrades.
Bad analogy. Think if you bought a MacBook with Leopard and it didn't have all the OS features of a Macbook Pro on sale at the same time. Then later Apple goes and says they'll put them on all Macbooks but existing Macbook users will have to pay for them. That would piss off a lot of people.
That line frequently heard here is both preposterous and asinine.
I can guarantee that you don't get laid much do you... Stop being a douche bag. You might end up getting a fat chick at least geek.
I wouldn't say that people are "entitled" to get a free update.
But apple has set a precedent of free updates to many of their products. They just did it with the aTV. They did it with the 5G ipod. They did it with the iPhone. They have done it many times with new features in point updates to OSX.
Dammit Apple! This guy is absolutely right. How stupid can one be.
It is obvious Steve, that you should stop giving updates for free, and everybody will be happy.
That line frequently heard here is both preposterous and asinine.
you must have rich parents and never had to work a day in your life..So don't act like you know the value of a hard earned dollar.
what's next an Amway rep for the PR division?
That line frequently heard here is both preposterous and asinine.
I'm not convinced on how it's preposterous and asinine, although both are good vocabulary words.
More than preposterous and asinine, it's basic economics. You put a price on something, if it's worth it, people buy it. If not they don't.
Basic human behavior: they will complain about it nevertheless.
I'm not convinced on how it's preposterous and asinine, although both are good vocabulary words.
More than preposterous and asinine, it's basic economics. You put a price on something, if it's worth it, people buy it. If not they don't.
Basic human behavior: they will complain about it nevertheless.
I've never complained about any apple product that i've ever owned. My company probably owns 10 times the apple products than 90% of the people on this board. I've been a very loyal customer since the early days and have the right to be pissed when they try to pull this type of shit.
Apple TV got it's 2.0 UPGRADE for free. After a year. But that's okay to Apple because AppleTV's a failing product. Apple knows they can gouge the iPod crowd and it's bullshit. It's not fair. Simple as that. Not every iPod touch user is a kid with rich parents dicking around on the internet.
Okay, I am going to be pretentious... but pretty much every point on here agreeing with the $20 price tag is utter bullshit. This is the truth, let it seep in and stop ragging our asses for crying:
Apple TV got it's 2.0 UPGRADE for free. After a year. But that's okay to Apple because AppleTV's a failing product. Apple knows they can gouge the iPod crowd and it's bullshit. It's not fair. Simple as that. Not every iPod touch user is a kid with rich parents dicking around on the internet
Again, apple tv doesn't compare. subscription service, different accounting structures, on and on ad nauseum.
much every point on here agreeing with the $20 price tag is utter bullshit. This is the truth, let it seep in and stop ragging our asses for crying:
You have swayed me with your brilliant application of logic!
Apple TV got it's 2.0 UPGRADE for free. After a year. But that's okay to Apple because AppleTV's a failing product. Apple knows they can gouge the iPod crowd and it's bullshit. It's not fair. Simple as that. Not every iPod touch user is a kid with rich parents dicking around on the internet
Oh I see. It's not fair! Another brilliant argument.
It's not fair, wah wah wah! Grow up.
If you don't want to pay the $20, don't buy the upgrade and don't get the apps! Simple. No bitching and moaning necessary, the iPod touch still does all the things it could do when you bought it, and if that's not enough for you - why did you buy it?
From a UK perspective i suggest Apple start making some pretty express statements about functionality and features-quick. The consumer laws here are very robust and for example give us a 28 days grace period. You cannot under the sales of goods act sell an item and then add additional functionality at a charge whilst at the same time offering it for free as a bundle.
Theres also another angle of concern, what about non-Apple stockist. A new Touch unsold but brand new is now competing at a £13.00 disadvantage. Talk about a heavily discriminated supply chain.
All in all this all points to one thing, a minefield for would be conusmers and existing owners alike. Steve don?t take your customers for fools. At the same time if theres a credible reason for the charge why not take to the time inform us. And whilst we?re on the subject of pricing, why is the new ATV $160.00 more in the UK than the US. Credibility is for me at an all time low, it shows that the comments about the Itunes store and price transparency across Europe only apply when there not Apples own products and don't reflect their US pricing.
All in all so disappointing for this Apple fan!
PS of course ATV had a free upgrade, in its new guise it will generate more profit which purchases! No one forced Apple to account for the Touch using SOX and quite honestly they spin the whole SOX thing to their advantage regardless.
Again, apple tv doesn't compare. subscription service, different accounting structures, on and on ad nauseum.
Not really. It's just as much a subscription service as iPod is with iTunes... the only reason it doesn't compare is because it's a failing product.
You have swayed me with your brilliant application of logic!
Oh I see. It's not fair! Another brilliant argument.
It's not fair, wah wah wah! Grow up.
If you don't want to pay the $20, don't buy the upgrade and don't get the apps! Simple. No bitching and moaning necessary, the iPod touch still does all the things it could do when you bought it, and if that's not enough for you - why did you buy it?
Had I known that Apple were going to pull shit like this, I wouldn't have bought it. You steered away from my point. It's gouging at it's best and it is unfair.
Quit bitching and moaning. Wah Wah Wah! Don't open the thread then. You now very well know what it entails.
I dislike the assumption on an earlier post that if we?re not happy with the pay to upgrade situation that we?re moaners.
It's not an assumption, it is fact. If you come in here complaining about the upgrade fee, that is moaning by definition.
That's not to say that you have to like the idea of paying to get the upgrade. If you don't like it, don't buy it. But don't piss and moan that you should be getting it for free - there is no argument that justifies the expectation that addtional functionality is a right and should be given out for free. I can see why it annoyes people, of course; but the expectation for free upgrades is not justified.
The consumer laws here are very robust and for example give us a 28 days grace period. You cannot under the sales of goods act sell an item and then add additional functionality at a charge whilst at the same time offering it for free as a bundle.
That's a new one on me. Evidence please.
And whilst we?re on the subject of pricing, why is the new ATV $160.00 more in the UK than the US. Credibility is for me at an all time low, it shows that the comments about the Itunes store and price transparency across Europe only apply when there not Apples own products and don't reflect their US pricing.
True.
Had I known that Apple were going to pull shit like this, I wouldn't have bought it.
Really?
Why did you buy an iPod touch?
Not really. It's just as much a subscription service as iPod is with iTunes... the only reason it doesn't compare is because it's a failing product.
a good reason, but not the only reason.
"...only the iPhone and Apple TV are currently using Apple's "subscription revenue" accounting model."
if what people are saying about sec regulations are true, then that would be why products that fall under the subscription revenue model can have updates without fees and others (like the ipod) need to have charges attached to them.
i haven't heard anybody argue yet that the regulations requiring apple to charge for this upgrade under its accounting model do not apply, if you can do it, you'd be the first.
http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/16/...-untold-story/