See there's this concept... the right tool for the job.
The point is i didn't buy and I wanted to. I bought a macbook instead.
The battery ... slow processor ... max 2 megs soldered in ... lack of ethernet (sorry if you compare even apple n to ethernet ... ethernet blows away. ... lack of firewire (didn't apple invent it?) all add up to a pathetic machine. If this machine was same price as macbook I would buy the faster ... better macbook.
Me, to license branch clerk: How long will it take to change the address on my driver's license?
License branch clerk: Oh, about two minutes.
Me: Wow, awesome!
License branch clerk, with evil laugh: Of course, there's a four hour wait before I can get to you!
Whether it takes two minutes or four hours, one still has to deal with getting the darn thing to Apple.
Is anyone here not aware of how many laptop batteries have been recalled in the last few years? Apple uses the same battery suppliers as everyone else.
<< Apple didn't do it to make money. They did it to cut down on engineering and manufacturing costs, and to reduce the size and weight.>>
In addition to two Macbooks, I've got a Sony T series laptop. It includes an optical drive, it has user upgradeable RAM, AND a user replaceable battery. It weighs 2. 7 lbs., less than the Macbook Air! It's slightly thicker than the Air, but has a smaller footprint, and is lighter. I can choose the smaller battery for going light, the larger battery for longer run time, or I can carry both so I have can keep working if one battery gets low. The T series has been out for several years now. The Macbook Air is hardly a novel engineering achievement. It's all style over functionality.
Trivial or not a user replaceable battery is vastly superior. Apple can design a thin laptop, but cannot design a user replaceable battery? What's wrong with this picture? I'm not up for the utter rubbish about how Apple could not incorporate it into the design. Rubbish.
The article says the battery can be easily replaced by a user. That sounds "user replaceable" to me. Sure, apple SAYS it's not user replaceable, and many people will have it done professionally. But as long as you can buy a battery (and does anyone really think they won't be available?), what is there to complain about?
And with this sort of unit, I don't think swapping batteries to extend battery life is much of an issue. Do people really do that much any more? If there really is demand, a third party will just create an external battery pack with magsafe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim
The point is i didn't buy and I wanted to. I bought a macbook instead.
The battery ... slow processor ... max 2 megs soldered in ... lack of ethernet (sorry if you compare even apple n to ethernet ... ethernet blows away. ... lack of firewire (didn't apple invent it?) all add up to a pathetic machine. If this machine was same price as macbook pro I would buy the faster ... better macbook.
Based on what you just said, you DIDN'T want to buy it. You wanted to buy a hammer...but you needed to put in screws, not nails...so you bought the screwdriver. I guess that means it's stupid for craftsman to make a hammer...why would anyone ever want to buy one??
Different products appeal to different market segments. People are so self centered that they assume that if a product isn't aimed at them and their needs, it won't appeal to anyone and will flop.
Different products appeal to different market segments. People are so self centered that they assume that if a product isn't aimed at them and their needs, it won't appeal to anyone and will flop.
Gee... ya think?
Still, its fun watching the trolls spewing spittle at the thought that anyone actually likes something they don't.
All that is missing now are some pictures of the MacBook Air innards so we can all get a feel of how easy the battery is to change. Well that, and I would be curious to see how the thing is engineered
Other World Computing (OWC Macsales.com) will probably have the do-it-yourself kit out within the month.
User-replaceable anything costs more to design and manufacture, and takes up more room.
As someone who, in the past seven years of laptop use as my primary machine, has never owned or used a second battery, I find the uproar over this to be bizarre. Are there folks who *need* this feature? I'm sure there are. But they're really not that high a % of the market, as I see it.
I had a second battery for the occasional traveling, so that when the first battery died (lost charge), I can swap them and continue. Airplanes don't all have power jacks, the ones that do don't always work, and airport lobbies are also usually scarce with jacks, so keeping it topped off and running can be hard. It seemed like pretty common practice for business travelers to have a second battery to pop in when the first battery died.
Maybe it's a moot point if the Air gets twice the run time as the other Apple notebooks, but we'll have to see those tests. I think Apple rates those at five or more hours too, I only get about half that on my MBP, even if I kill wireless and turn brightness to one notch above off.
Quote:
Because, you know, it killed the iPod.
It's not the same kind of device, not necessarily the same kind of use.
The article says the battery can be easily replaced by a user.
Based on what you just said, you DIDN'T want to buy it. You wanted to buy a hammer...but you needed to put in screws, not nails...so you bought the screwdriver. I guess that means it's stupid for craftsman to make a hammer...why would anyone ever want to buy one??
Different products appeal to different market segments. People are so self centered that they assume that if a product isn't aimed at them and their needs, it won't appeal to anyone and will flop.
Why am I self centered by pointing out that Apple made some bad decisions ... remember Newton! Remember Apple TV "Take One". They don't do everything right. I like the look of the machine and full keyboard. I am very disappointed that they did not include some ports that would not have increased weight at all. I honestly thing this thing will sell hot early and fizzle just like Apple TV. Steve Jobs will come to the convention next year and give his mia culpa and say they didn't listen to us ... which they didn't ... and introduce MacBook Air and Here is "Take Two". It will have ethernet ... another usb ... firewire ... a better core duo processor ... upgradeable memory to 4 gig ... and a replaceable battery all with the SAME footprint and weight.
The reality is it doesn't take minutes it takes 5 days. And what if I am in a factory doing a photo or video shoot and I have no AC and no battery replacement.
Pathetic decision by apple. If the MacBook and MacBook Air was same price I would still buy the macbook that is plenty portable.
It takes 5 days _if_ one chooses to send the machine in through the _mail_
Seems like a given that one could make a genius-bar appointment and bring it into an Apple store...for a quick replacement.
Further, i have no doubt many third-party vendors will offer a suitable replacement and proper install instructions like -> http://fastmac.com/laptop.php
teckstud, you are totally a Microsoft spy (I swear you are).
LOL- I swear no! Let me see I have 4iPods, 1 MacBook, 2 iMacs, 1 AppleTV, a subscription to both Macworld and Maclife. Anything else- oh yes, a brain! Peace.
It takes 5 days _if_ one chooses to send the machine in through the _mail_
Seems like a given that one could make a genius-bar appointment and bring it into an Apple store...for a quick replacement.
Further, i have no doubt many third-party vendors will offer a suitable replacement and proper install instructions like -> http://fastmac.com/laptop.php
Having tried to replace ipod batteries at apple store ... let's just say that I won't hold my breath on the less than 5 days turnaround on the battery replacement.
An Ipod is not as vital as a laptop ... and I lived with it. I will not live with giving a computer with my finances etc to the apple store. I'm telling you this is a major show stopper for many I know who waited to buy this machine.
I don't know if it's possible but can an external battery pack like they've made for iPods be designed for a laptop. Something that could plug into the wall to charge and then pulled from your bag and plugged into the laptop's magsafe connection to power it? Just curious.
This reason doesn't wash with me. The amount Apple would have saved is negligible because the battery takes up the same space with or without a way to slide it out of the chassis.
They aren't really saving money by doing this because it's only deferring the cost of manufacturing and design to other areas, such as hiring and training new employees to replace batteries, packaging and mailing fees for shipping the laptop, and time for Apple to replace the battery where the consumer would normally do it.
A new battery for my MacBook is $99 and I replace it myself. Apple is charging a $30 premium to replace the battery in the MacBook Air. They are taking in $30 for labor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Apple didn't do it to make money. They did it to cut down on engineering and manufacturing costs, and to reduce the size and weight.
While you are correct, that having to send any item in for repair is a pain, this is not to be one's main machine. Honestly, how many people will be sending it in to Apple for a battery replacement. How many times have you purchased replacement batteries for new computers. Most people buy new computers well before their battery ever fails.
Well, the complaint would be that if Apple doesn't support the user replacing the battery, that a customer opening up the case to do it themselves would void the warranty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder
The article says the battery can be easily replaced by a user. That sounds "user replaceable" to me. Sure, apple SAYS it's not user replaceable, and many people will have it done professionally. But as long as you can buy a battery (and does anyone really think they won't be available?), what is there to complain about?
Why am I self centered by pointing out that Apple made some bad decisions ...
Because you're not pointing out bad decisions. You are pointing out decisions made to appeal to a specific set of customers that you don't happen to be included in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim
I will not live with giving a computer with my finances etc to the apple store.
So grab a screwdriver and replace it yourself. Didn't you read the article? You know, the one this thread is attached to? The one that says that replacing the battery is a piece of cake, can be done quickly with no special tools?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1
A new battery for my MacBook is $99 and I replace it myself. Apple is charging a $30 premium to replace the battery in the MacBook Air. They are taking in $30 for labor.
Where do you see apple charging $99 for a replacement battery? Looking at the apple store, every replacement laptop battery is $129.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1
Well, the complaint would be that if Apple doesn't support the user replacing the battery, that a customer opening up the case to do it themselves would void the warranty.
If it's still under warranty, the battery replacement is covered so it's free, right? And generally, companies are required by law to honor warranties even if the customer performs maintenance themselves. They just don't have to cover any damage caused by the user. I opened up my mini and did things that apple considers not user serviceable, and still had warranty work done afterwards.
If it's still under warranty, the battery replacement is covered so it's free, right? And generally, companies are required by law to honor warranties even if the customer performs maintenance themselves. They just don't have to cover any damage caused by the user. I opened up my mini and did things that apple considers not user serviceable, and still had warranty work done afterwards.
After reading Apple's own ordering page, and as linked to the Apple MacBook Air ordering page for additional AppleCare (as I purchase AppleCare whenever available):
AppleCare Protection Plan
b. Limitations The Plan does not cover:
(ix) Consumable parts, such as batteries, except in respect of battery coverage under APP for iPod or unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials and workmanship;
After reading Apple's own ordering page, and as linked to the Apple MacBook Air ordering page for additional AppleCare (as I purchase AppleCare whenever available):
AppleCare Protection Plan
b. Limitations The Plan does not cover:
(ix) Consumable parts, such as batteries, except in respect of battery coverage under APP for iPod or unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials and workmanship;
I was talking about the original warranty. Is the battery not covered in the first year? And is there any official word from apple that changing the battery voids the warranty?
Because you're not pointing out bad decisions. You are pointing out decisions made to appeal to a specific set of customers that you don't happen to be included in.
So grab a screwdriver and replace it yourself. Didn't you read the article? You know, the one this thread is attached to? The one that says that replacing the battery is a piece of cake, can be done quickly with no special tools?
Didn't you read the item below in the article? You know, the one this thread is attached to? ... mr condescending
"For its part, Apple has announced its intent to offer a MacBook Air Out-of-Warranty Battery Replacement Program, which promises authorized replacements for US $129. The mail-in repair process normally takes 5 business days, the company says."
This means I have to give them the machine for 5 days if it goes out in warranty ... I've had 3 ipod batteries go out in warranty!
On the issues of bad decisions that is a matter of opinion ... and your opinion nor apples is not necessarily the correct one every time. Time will tell who is right when we look at sales 3-4 months from now. I think we have a newton/appleTV dog here. You must think apple will be satisfied with the rich "this is only an internet browsing e-mail machine" latte market. We'll see.
Comments
Then it was the wrong tool to buy, wasn't it?
See there's this concept... the right tool for the job.
The point is i didn't buy and I wanted to. I bought a macbook instead.
The battery ... slow processor ... max 2 megs soldered in ... lack of ethernet (sorry if you compare even apple n to ethernet ... ethernet blows away. ... lack of firewire (didn't apple invent it?) all add up to a pathetic machine. If this machine was same price as macbook I would buy the faster ... better macbook.
License branch clerk: Oh, about two minutes.
Me: Wow, awesome!
License branch clerk, with evil laugh: Of course, there's a four hour wait before I can get to you!
Whether it takes two minutes or four hours, one still has to deal with getting the darn thing to Apple.
Is anyone here not aware of how many laptop batteries have been recalled in the last few years? Apple uses the same battery suppliers as everyone else.
<< Apple didn't do it to make money. They did it to cut down on engineering and manufacturing costs, and to reduce the size and weight.>>
In addition to two Macbooks, I've got a Sony T series laptop. It includes an optical drive, it has user upgradeable RAM, AND a user replaceable battery. It weighs 2. 7 lbs., less than the Macbook Air! It's slightly thicker than the Air, but has a smaller footprint, and is lighter. I can choose the smaller battery for going light, the larger battery for longer run time, or I can carry both so I have can keep working if one battery gets low. The T series has been out for several years now. The Macbook Air is hardly a novel engineering achievement. It's all style over functionality.
Trivial or not a user replaceable battery is vastly superior. Apple can design a thin laptop, but cannot design a user replaceable battery? What's wrong with this picture? I'm not up for the utter rubbish about how Apple could not incorporate it into the design. Rubbish.
The article says the battery can be easily replaced by a user. That sounds "user replaceable" to me. Sure, apple SAYS it's not user replaceable, and many people will have it done professionally. But as long as you can buy a battery (and does anyone really think they won't be available?), what is there to complain about?
And with this sort of unit, I don't think swapping batteries to extend battery life is much of an issue. Do people really do that much any more? If there really is demand, a third party will just create an external battery pack with magsafe.
The point is i didn't buy and I wanted to. I bought a macbook instead.
The battery ... slow processor ... max 2 megs soldered in ... lack of ethernet (sorry if you compare even apple n to ethernet ... ethernet blows away. ... lack of firewire (didn't apple invent it?) all add up to a pathetic machine. If this machine was same price as macbook pro I would buy the faster ... better macbook.
Based on what you just said, you DIDN'T want to buy it. You wanted to buy a hammer...but you needed to put in screws, not nails...so you bought the screwdriver. I guess that means it's stupid for craftsman to make a hammer...why would anyone ever want to buy one??
Different products appeal to different market segments. People are so self centered that they assume that if a product isn't aimed at them and their needs, it won't appeal to anyone and will flop.
Different products appeal to different market segments. People are so self centered that they assume that if a product isn't aimed at them and their needs, it won't appeal to anyone and will flop.
Gee... ya think?
Still, its fun watching the trolls spewing spittle at the thought that anyone actually likes something they don't.
All that is missing now are some pictures of the MacBook Air innards so we can all get a feel of how easy the battery is to change. Well that, and I would be curious to see how the thing is engineered
Other World Computing (OWC Macsales.com) will probably have the do-it-yourself kit out within the month.
User-replaceable anything costs more to design and manufacture, and takes up more room.
As someone who, in the past seven years of laptop use as my primary machine, has never owned or used a second battery, I find the uproar over this to be bizarre. Are there folks who *need* this feature? I'm sure there are. But they're really not that high a % of the market, as I see it.
I had a second battery for the occasional traveling, so that when the first battery died (lost charge), I can swap them and continue. Airplanes don't all have power jacks, the ones that do don't always work, and airport lobbies are also usually scarce with jacks, so keeping it topped off and running can be hard. It seemed like pretty common practice for business travelers to have a second battery to pop in when the first battery died.
Maybe it's a moot point if the Air gets twice the run time as the other Apple notebooks, but we'll have to see those tests. I think Apple rates those at five or more hours too, I only get about half that on my MBP, even if I kill wireless and turn brightness to one notch above off.
Because, you know, it killed the iPod.
It's not the same kind of device, not necessarily the same kind of use.
The article says the battery can be easily replaced by a user.
Based on what you just said, you DIDN'T want to buy it. You wanted to buy a hammer...but you needed to put in screws, not nails...so you bought the screwdriver. I guess that means it's stupid for craftsman to make a hammer...why would anyone ever want to buy one??
Different products appeal to different market segments. People are so self centered that they assume that if a product isn't aimed at them and their needs, it won't appeal to anyone and will flop.
Why am I self centered by pointing out that Apple made some bad decisions ... remember Newton! Remember Apple TV "Take One". They don't do everything right. I like the look of the machine and full keyboard. I am very disappointed that they did not include some ports that would not have increased weight at all. I honestly thing this thing will sell hot early and fizzle just like Apple TV. Steve Jobs will come to the convention next year and give his mia culpa and say they didn't listen to us ... which they didn't ... and introduce MacBook Air and Here is "Take Two". It will have ethernet ... another usb ... firewire ... a better core duo processor ... upgradeable memory to 4 gig ... and a replaceable battery all with the SAME footprint and weight.
The reality is it doesn't take minutes it takes 5 days. And what if I am in a factory doing a photo or video shoot and I have no AC and no battery replacement.
Pathetic decision by apple. If the MacBook and MacBook Air was same price I would still buy the macbook that is plenty portable.
It takes 5 days _if_ one chooses to send the machine in through the _mail_
Seems like a given that one could make a genius-bar appointment and bring it into an Apple store...for a quick replacement.
Further, i have no doubt many third-party vendors will offer a suitable replacement and proper install instructions like -> http://fastmac.com/laptop.php
teckstud, you are totally a Microsoft spy (I swear you are).
LOL- I swear no! Let me see I have 4iPods, 1 MacBook, 2 iMacs, 1 AppleTV, a subscription to both Macworld and Maclife. Anything else- oh yes, a brain! Peace.
If offered immortality I wouldn't give a rat's arse about the MacBook Air, or Apple for that matter.
Unless, of course, if it was Ratatouille's arse- a PIXAR production!!
I really do not want to return to the Evil Empire.
Sounds like a bit of bad luck, sorry to hear.
I don't know, but returning to the Evil Empire sounds a bit like a dog returning to its vomit.
No thanks.
It takes 5 days _if_ one chooses to send the machine in through the _mail_
Seems like a given that one could make a genius-bar appointment and bring it into an Apple store...for a quick replacement.
Further, i have no doubt many third-party vendors will offer a suitable replacement and proper install instructions like -> http://fastmac.com/laptop.php
Having tried to replace ipod batteries at apple store ... let's just say that I won't hold my breath on the less than 5 days turnaround on the battery replacement.
An Ipod is not as vital as a laptop ... and I lived with it. I will not live with giving a computer with my finances etc to the apple store. I'm telling you this is a major show stopper for many I know who waited to buy this machine.
They aren't really saving money by doing this because it's only deferring the cost of manufacturing and design to other areas, such as hiring and training new employees to replace batteries, packaging and mailing fees for shipping the laptop, and time for Apple to replace the battery where the consumer would normally do it.
A new battery for my MacBook is $99 and I replace it myself. Apple is charging a $30 premium to replace the battery in the MacBook Air. They are taking in $30 for labor.
Apple didn't do it to make money. They did it to cut down on engineering and manufacturing costs, and to reduce the size and weight.
While you are correct, that having to send any item in for repair is a pain, this is not to be one's main machine. Honestly, how many people will be sending it in to Apple for a battery replacement. How many times have you purchased replacement batteries for new computers. Most people buy new computers well before their battery ever fails.
The article says the battery can be easily replaced by a user. That sounds "user replaceable" to me. Sure, apple SAYS it's not user replaceable, and many people will have it done professionally. But as long as you can buy a battery (and does anyone really think they won't be available?), what is there to complain about?
I will not live with giving a computer with my finances etc to the apple store.
I agree. I would even place this fact above the battery issue. Secure data is paramount.
Why am I self centered by pointing out that Apple made some bad decisions ...
Because you're not pointing out bad decisions. You are pointing out decisions made to appeal to a specific set of customers that you don't happen to be included in.
I will not live with giving a computer with my finances etc to the apple store.
So grab a screwdriver and replace it yourself. Didn't you read the article? You know, the one this thread is attached to? The one that says that replacing the battery is a piece of cake, can be done quickly with no special tools?
A new battery for my MacBook is $99 and I replace it myself. Apple is charging a $30 premium to replace the battery in the MacBook Air. They are taking in $30 for labor.
Where do you see apple charging $99 for a replacement battery? Looking at the apple store, every replacement laptop battery is $129.
Well, the complaint would be that if Apple doesn't support the user replacing the battery, that a customer opening up the case to do it themselves would void the warranty.
If it's still under warranty, the battery replacement is covered so it's free, right? And generally, companies are required by law to honor warranties even if the customer performs maintenance themselves. They just don't have to cover any damage caused by the user. I opened up my mini and did things that apple considers not user serviceable, and still had warranty work done afterwards.
If it's still under warranty, the battery replacement is covered so it's free, right? And generally, companies are required by law to honor warranties even if the customer performs maintenance themselves. They just don't have to cover any damage caused by the user. I opened up my mini and did things that apple considers not user serviceable, and still had warranty work done afterwards.
After reading Apple's own ordering page, and as linked to the Apple MacBook Air ordering page for additional AppleCare (as I purchase AppleCare whenever available):
AppleCare Protection Plan
b. Limitations The Plan does not cover:
(ix) Consumable parts, such as batteries, except in respect of battery coverage under APP for iPod or unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials and workmanship;
After reading Apple's own ordering page, and as linked to the Apple MacBook Air ordering page for additional AppleCare (as I purchase AppleCare whenever available):
AppleCare Protection Plan
b. Limitations The Plan does not cover:
(ix) Consumable parts, such as batteries, except in respect of battery coverage under APP for iPod or unless failure has occurred due to a defect in materials and workmanship;
I was talking about the original warranty. Is the battery not covered in the first year? And is there any official word from apple that changing the battery voids the warranty?
Because you're not pointing out bad decisions. You are pointing out decisions made to appeal to a specific set of customers that you don't happen to be included in.
So grab a screwdriver and replace it yourself. Didn't you read the article? You know, the one this thread is attached to? The one that says that replacing the battery is a piece of cake, can be done quickly with no special tools?
Didn't you read the item below in the article? You know, the one this thread is attached to? ... mr condescending
"For its part, Apple has announced its intent to offer a MacBook Air Out-of-Warranty Battery Replacement Program, which promises authorized replacements for US $129. The mail-in repair process normally takes 5 business days, the company says."
This means I have to give them the machine for 5 days if it goes out in warranty ... I've had 3 ipod batteries go out in warranty!
On the issues of bad decisions that is a matter of opinion ... and your opinion nor apples is not necessarily the correct one every time. Time will tell who is right when we look at sales 3-4 months from now. I think we have a newton/appleTV dog here. You must think apple will be satisfied with the rich "this is only an internet browsing e-mail machine" latte market. We'll see.