There's no such thing as a phone with a good camera. You can have phones that have the ability to take cute, one-off pics that are ok to share with others via MMS or a fun "spur of the moment" thing, but please, don't try and tell me a camera phone will ever, ever approach any kind of regular camera, let alone a DSLR.
Now the fact that there's a lens made by Carl Zeiss is nice, but it still get over the fact that for decent photos, you need lots of glass. And it's PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to get good photos with tiny amounts of glass; this isn't some technical limitation, this is a physical, universal constant that has to do with the way light works. Oh yes, you can pump up the low light performance with various tricks, but you invariably introduce noise.
So yes, "good for a camera phone" will most likely always be around as a lens qualifier.
Definitely a nice change from your past, '3G doesn't matter that much' and 'Apple can wait 2 years [from the US iPhone launch] to go 3G' stances.
What finally brought you around?
I never said I thought Apple would wait 2 years. I speculated why they would. But I do understand some things now, I did not understand as well last year.
The reason why its clear Apple will refresh the iPhone this year. Other mobile phone manufacturers don't necessarily have a high degree loyalty to any one handset they make. They are willing to throw a variety of handsets into the market with various features and various price points to see which one will stick. If one isn't selling well they are willing to throw a new one out there.
The iPhone is Apple's only mobile product so it needs to be aggressively updated to compete with the hundreds of competitors on the market.
Quote:
I dunno Jeff... there's some Nokias out there with 5MP cameras and Carl Zeiss lenses. Presumably they take a pretty good pic.
Placing Carl Zeiss on a camera phone is more marketing fluff than anything. There isn't much Zeiss can do better than others with such a tiny lens.
Quote:
You may say, "Yeah... for a cellphone", but if that's what the high-end market wants, I think you give it to them. After all, one of the complaints of the Euros is that the iPhone's camera (2.0 MP) isn't competitive.
Any one who looks at megpixels as the sole measurement of camera capability have no true understanding of how digital cameras work.
Quote:
Why would 3G iPhone sales have to help the iPod to make Apple's bottom line significantly better? This $1 billion is out of $9.6 billion in total Apple revenues for the quarter, so the iPhone is more than 10% of revenue Some have said its only 3%, but I don't see where they get a number that low from. Odd.
You are confused because you have a one track mind. 3G won't help the iPod at all. iPod sales forecast will impact the stock more than the iPhone or 3G.
Last quarter the iPod accounted for 42% of Apple's revenue. The iPod Touch costs about the same as the iPhone and will far outsell the iPhone. These are critically important sales.
Some calculated iPhone revenue at 3% because we have a better idea of how much Apple made from sales of the device. Its only speculation how much Apple has made from carrier revenue sharing.
Quote:
You may be worrying overmuch. The new Broadcom chip that Apple will allegedly be using for the 3G iPhone supports up to a 5.0 megapixel camera... AND video capture!(about time). All within a footprint that is quite reasonable, both in size and power:
One chip will not be able to produce the dynamic range and sharpness that the electronics in a dedicated point and shoot is able to produce.
I dunno Jeff... there's some Nokias out there with 5MP cameras and Carl Zeiss lenses. Presumably they take a pretty good pic.
Paper specs mean nothing. The actual image means more. "Presumably" means nothing. Sony slaps Zeiss lenses on a lot of their products, but that alone doesn't make the product any good.
Quote:
You may say, "Yeah... for a cellphone", but if that's what the high-end market wants, I think you give it to them. After all, one of the complaints of the Euros is that the iPhone's camera (2.0 MP) isn't competitive.
You can give the market big megapixels in a phone, but that's still not giving the market a good camera. More would actually be worse for most phones.
I don't think we will see 3G phone this year, maybe at Macworld 2009 when they have nothing else to offer for the current model. The current iPhone still new at 6 months old, they could achieve better sales by focusing on the SDK.
The problem with cell phone cameras is the lack of flash/light. My iPhone pictures look great outdoors at daytime. I have seen pictures taken with "other" 5MP cell phone cameras and they have the same problems. Phone cameras are never designed to replace real cameras when you travel or go sightseeing.
I really don't like MMS. However, MMS is basically a software update. I have seen many MMS softwares for the iPhone online (You have to hack your phone to install though).
I don't think we will see 3G phone this year, maybe at Macworld 2009 when they have nothing else to offer for the current model. The current iPhone still new at 6 months old, they could achieve better sales by focusing on the SDK.
Six months is old in the mobile phone business. Every 3 to 6 months Nokia, Samsung, RIM, SE, LG, HTC are all barraging the market with new phones. All of these phones either reduce in cost over time or are being sold for free with contract. The iPhone must be aggressively updated to continue selling at a premium price.
Six months is old in the mobile phone business. Every 3 to 6 months Nokia, Samsung, RIM, SE, LG, HTC are all barraging the market with new phones. All of these phones either reduce in cost over time or are being sold for free with contract. The iPhone must be aggressively updated to continue selling at a premium price.
However, Apple is not a phone company and all of these companies have big collection of phones ranging from basic phones to smart phones. For them to stay in business they have to compete with each other by throwing in features and frequent new phone. Apple spent almost 2 years to develop the current iPhone, they will not upgrade that fast. Beside, Apple seem to be very satisfied with sales figures so far (locked or unlocked). As someone pointed out in earlier post, they just released iPhone in Europe and maybe Asia in the next 2 months and releasing the 3G will cause the same reaction Apple got when they lowered the price $200 last year.
The iPhone strength comes from software updates not hardware. The reason others do unit update more often is because they cannot update the OS like Apple without updating the hardware.
they will upgrade, granted more slowly than the all things to all people manufacturers BUT will upgrade aggressively enough not to lose momentum. remember apple has other profit lines and SJ is developing a "platform" SJ knows how to maintain momentum
However, Apple is not a phone company and all of these companies have big collection of phones ranging from basic phones to smart phones. For them to stay in business they have to compete with each other by throwing in features and frequent new phone. Apple spent almost 2 years to develop the current iPhone, they will not upgrade that fast. Beside, Apple seem to be very satisfied with sales figures so far (locked or unlocked). As someone pointed out in earlier post, they just released iPhone in Europe and maybe Asia in the next 2 months and releasing the 3G will cause the same reaction Apple got when they lowered the price $200 last year.
Nah, we're used to new phones every few months in Europe. The N95 for instance has had at least 3 revisions since launch and they've released at least a half dozen more phones since then. There's always a new model a month or so after you buy yours...unless you buy an iPhone.
Sales in Europe have been poor by comparison to the USA so for Apple's sake alone they need an update.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE
The iPhone strength comes from software updates not hardware. The reason others do unit update more often is because they cannot update the OS like Apple without updating the hardware.
Bullshit. Both Sony and Nokia have update services that update the phones over the air or via a PC/Mac. Generally it's just to fix bugs though, not add features that they didn't managed to finish before initial release.
The point about the camera in phones not being good is irrelevant. It only has to be on par with other phone cameras and you know nothing about photography if you think Apple's 2.0mp dinky toy lens and no flash is even close to being on par with even old trusty phones like the SE K800 or pretty much any 2 year old Nokia/SE. Then it's passable for a point-and-shoot snapper, which is what most people are happy with anyway.
However, Apple is not a phone company and all of these companies have big collection of phones ranging from basic phones to smart phones.
The iPhone is competing directly with these companies. Their new phones add capabilities more on par with the iPhone.
Quote:
The iPhone strength comes from software updates not hardware. The reason others do unit update more often is because they cannot update the OS like Apple without updating the hardware.
The point about the camera in phones not being good is irrelevant. It only has to be on par with other phone cameras and you know nothing about photography if you think Apple's 2.0mp dinky toy lens and no flash is even close to being on par with even old trusty phones like the SE K800 or pretty much any 2 year old Nokia/SE. Then it's passable for a point-and-shoot snapper, which is what most people are happy with anyway.
No one argued the iPhone's camera was great. We're actually saying its mediocre in an over all pretty mediocre category.
Phones with better cameras have to then sacrifice other features. Slower processor, smaller screen, less internal storage, bulkier or heavier dimensions. As Jeff stated earlier some of these phones are basically a point and shoot with a phone grafted on the back.
No one argued the iPhone's camera was great. We're actually saying its mediocre in an over all pretty mediocre category.
Phones with better cameras have to then sacrifice other features. Slower processor, smaller screen, less internal storage, bulkier or heavier dimensions. As Jeff stated earlier some of these phones are basically a point and shoot with a phone grafted on the back.
Huh? The iphone is a BIG phone by comparison to other phones already. It's surely got room for a better camera and a flash. How much room do you think these things take up these days?
Go look at a Nokia 6500 classic. It's only a 2mp camera so that's going to win points with those of you in denial but the phone is 3G, has a flash, is 9.5mm thin and gets 5+ hours talk time. Built like it's made out of solid metal too - nearly bought one last week. Takes pretty reasonable shots too. It's almost as small as my previous gen iPod Nano and I can use it as a 3G modem unlike the iPhone.
Bullshit. Both Sony and Nokia have update services that update the phones over the air or via a PC/Mac. Generally it's just to fix bugs though, not add features that they didn't managed to finish before initial release
Thank you. You prove my point "to fix bugs".
Quote:
t only has to be on par with other phone cameras and you know nothing about photography if you think Apple's 2.0mp dinky toy lens and no flash is even close to being on par with even old trusty phones like the SE K800 or pretty much any 2 year old Nokia/SE
It seems you are the one who knows nothing about photography. My 5 years old Fujifilm 2.1MP camera make pictures better than some of the available 5MP cameras. I did not say that the iPhone camera is the best in the world, I said that pictures are good relative to the function. Sure K800i camera is great, but I doubt you will leave your real camera at home when you go on vacation.
Nah, we're used to new phones every few months in Europe. The N95 for instance has had at least 3 revisions since launch and they've released at least a half dozen more phones since then.
Is the iPhone really that different?
The N95 revisions seem a lot because there are specific versions for US 3G bands. If you were in Europe, you got that original model and the 8 GB version. In NAM, we got the original which didn't support USA 3G bands, and the N95-3 with USA 3G bands. The NAM N95 with 8 GB storage will come soon. So that's like 3 versions within a year in NAM. An EDGE version, a 3G version, and a soon to be 3G version with 8 GB. In Europe, it's really just two.
Contrast with Apple iPhone. Available in June with 4 and 8 GB versions. In January, a 16 GB version. In Summer, likely a 3G version, maybe a totally different model. Depending on how you count, that's 3 versions of the iPhone, maybe 4 if you count the 4 GB, within a year.
Now, Nokia, LG, Samsung, SE etc have new phone releases every few months. But that's because they have a lot of different phone models! Nokia probably has 100+. There aren't really major revisions within the same phone model every few months. Apple in 2 years will likely have more cell phone models. They could have an iPhone "nano", "max", and variations within. Then, we can maybe see more frequent Apple cell phone releases in the every few months category.
Quote:
Sales in Europe have been poor by comparison to the USA so for Apple's sake alone they need an update.
I still contend that Apple is ok with the European sales. They are a very US centric company afterall.
Quote:
Bullshit. Both Sony and Nokia have update services that update the phones over the air or via a PC/Mac. Generally it's just to fix bugs though, not add features that they didn't managed to finish before initial release.
Agree with you here. Many of the flagship or high dollar phones have updated firmware for bug fixes and new features. The added wrinkle with the iPhone is that since its UI is really virtual, major changes to it can occur. The keypad for both the dialing and text entry can change in a major way. The UI for the multimedia functions can change in a major way. Something, that really can't happen with most other phones.
Quote:
The point about the camera in phones not being good is irrelevant. It only has to be on par with other phone cameras and you know nothing about photography if you think Apple's 2.0mp dinky toy lens and no flash is even close to being on par with even old trusty phones like the SE K800 or pretty much any 2 year old Nokia/SE. Then it's passable for a point-and-shoot snapper, which is what most people are happy with anyway.
Like in other threads, in the USA, the camera function hasn't become driving feature. It's cultural. I'd argue MMS is the same way.
However, what is passable functionality for people is quite a subjective thing. It can really be argued that most people won't take any better pictures with an SE or a Nokia when compared to an iPhone. Most people may not even be able to tell the difference. Even with point-n-shoots, most people take such crappy pictures that a person with an iPhone may take the same quality photos. If so, the importance of a higher quality camera isn't that big.
I'd also argue digital point-and-shoots don't take better pictures than film point-and-shoots. Just not there yet in low light or difficult lighting conditions, which seems the vast majority of times, but that's a different forum.
The point about the camera in phones not being good is irrelevant. It only has to be on par with other phone cameras and you know nothing about photography if you think Apple's 2.0mp dinky toy lens and no flash is even close to being on par with even old trusty phones like the SE K800 or pretty much any 2 year old Nokia/SE. Then it's passable for a point-and-shoot snapper, which is what most people are happy with anyway.
Bingo.
Fact is, IT DOESN'T MATTER that cameraphones aren't as good as dedicated cameras... we all KNOW that already. But to listen to some ppl talk, the question at hand is whether to buy an iPHONE or a NIKON Digital Camera. But IT'S NOT... obviously.
The REAL QUESTION is, is someone going to buy an iPHONE or A COMPETING HIGH END CELLPHONE... and is the iPHONE's specs-poor camera a further strike against it?
People here may not LIKE the fact that potential buyers look at spec sheets and go:
"Hmm...iPHONE: 2.0 MP camera and NO video capture... Nokia N95 (or whatever), 5.0 MP camera, AND video capture... WOW, looks like the Nokia WHIPS ASS on the iPHONE there." \
But they DO, and that's not going to change anytime soon. So, Apple can either protest that it's not all about megapixels and "who needs video capture anyway" (lol), a strategy which won't help or matter, or they can address the issue directly by closing the spec gap. The Broadcom chipset definitely supports them doing just that on the 3G iPhone.
I'm sure Nokia and Apple's other competitors would LOVE it if Apple just left the camera as is on the next iPhone and proclaimed it "didn't matter", or that specs are misleading. Sigh.
Yes it could easily have a flash. But it does not have room for the camera in the Viewty or Nokia N95.
Do you know that for certain, and if so, how? Have you researched the iPhone teardowns in great detail or something?
And, MUCH more importantly, how do you know that a 3G iPhone won't have room for a better camera, considering that we don't know what the dimensions for it will be yet, or how much room the new (and allegedly quite compact) chipset will be taking up?
Comments
Now the fact that there's a lens made by Carl Zeiss is nice, but it still get over the fact that for decent photos, you need lots of glass. And it's PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to get good photos with tiny amounts of glass; this isn't some technical limitation, this is a physical, universal constant that has to do with the way light works. Oh yes, you can pump up the low light performance with various tricks, but you invariably introduce noise.
So yes, "good for a camera phone" will most likely always be around as a lens qualifier.
Whoa... for once I totally agree with you.
Definitely a nice change from your past, '3G doesn't matter that much' and 'Apple can wait 2 years [from the US iPhone launch] to go 3G' stances.
What finally brought you around?
I never said I thought Apple would wait 2 years. I speculated why they would. But I do understand some things now, I did not understand as well last year.
The reason why its clear Apple will refresh the iPhone this year. Other mobile phone manufacturers don't necessarily have a high degree loyalty to any one handset they make. They are willing to throw a variety of handsets into the market with various features and various price points to see which one will stick. If one isn't selling well they are willing to throw a new one out there.
The iPhone is Apple's only mobile product so it needs to be aggressively updated to compete with the hundreds of competitors on the market.
I dunno Jeff... there's some Nokias out there with 5MP cameras and Carl Zeiss lenses. Presumably they take a pretty good pic.
Placing Carl Zeiss on a camera phone is more marketing fluff than anything. There isn't much Zeiss can do better than others with such a tiny lens.
You may say, "Yeah... for a cellphone", but if that's what the high-end market wants, I think you give it to them. After all, one of the complaints of the Euros is that the iPhone's camera (2.0 MP) isn't competitive.
Any one who looks at megpixels as the sole measurement of camera capability have no true understanding of how digital cameras work.
Why would 3G iPhone sales have to help the iPod to make Apple's bottom line significantly better? This $1 billion is out of $9.6 billion in total Apple revenues for the quarter, so the iPhone is more than 10% of revenue Some have said its only 3%, but I don't see where they get a number that low from. Odd.
You are confused because you have a one track mind. 3G won't help the iPod at all. iPod sales forecast will impact the stock more than the iPhone or 3G.
Last quarter the iPod accounted for 42% of Apple's revenue. The iPod Touch costs about the same as the iPhone and will far outsell the iPhone. These are critically important sales.
Some calculated iPhone revenue at 3% because we have a better idea of how much Apple made from sales of the device. Its only speculation how much Apple has made from carrier revenue sharing.
You may be worrying overmuch. The new Broadcom chip that Apple will allegedly be using for the 3G iPhone supports up to a 5.0 megapixel camera... AND video capture!(about time). All within a footprint that is quite reasonable, both in size and power:
One chip will not be able to produce the dynamic range and sharpness that the electronics in a dedicated point and shoot is able to produce.
So yes, "good for a camera phone" will most likely always be around as a qualifier.
I agree. And 'good for a [high-end] camera phone' is all Apple really needs to do, overall. The problem is, they haven't done even that thus far.
.
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...8916D529B7B%7D
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080304/citigroup.html?.v=6
i bet apple will exceed estimates and citgroup will exceed loss
I dunno Jeff... there's some Nokias out there with 5MP cameras and Carl Zeiss lenses. Presumably they take a pretty good pic.
Paper specs mean nothing. The actual image means more. "Presumably" means nothing. Sony slaps Zeiss lenses on a lot of their products, but that alone doesn't make the product any good.
You may say, "Yeah... for a cellphone", but if that's what the high-end market wants, I think you give it to them. After all, one of the complaints of the Euros is that the iPhone's camera (2.0 MP) isn't competitive.
You can give the market big megapixels in a phone, but that's still not giving the market a good camera. More would actually be worse for most phones.
What dates define the 2nd quarter? Could this Thursday's SDK meeting actually be the one where we see the 2nd gen. iphone?
april 1 starts my corps 2nd quarter july the 3rd oct the 4th
The problem with cell phone cameras is the lack of flash/light. My iPhone pictures look great outdoors at daytime. I have seen pictures taken with "other" 5MP cell phone cameras and they have the same problems. Phone cameras are never designed to replace real cameras when you travel or go sightseeing.
I really don't like MMS. However, MMS is basically a software update. I have seen many MMS softwares for the iPhone online (You have to hack your phone to install though).
I don't think we will see 3G phone this year, maybe at Macworld 2009 when they have nothing else to offer for the current model. The current iPhone still new at 6 months old, they could achieve better sales by focusing on the SDK.
Six months is old in the mobile phone business. Every 3 to 6 months Nokia, Samsung, RIM, SE, LG, HTC are all barraging the market with new phones. All of these phones either reduce in cost over time or are being sold for free with contract. The iPhone must be aggressively updated to continue selling at a premium price.
Six months is old in the mobile phone business. Every 3 to 6 months Nokia, Samsung, RIM, SE, LG, HTC are all barraging the market with new phones. All of these phones either reduce in cost over time or are being sold for free with contract. The iPhone must be aggressively updated to continue selling at a premium price.
However, Apple is not a phone company and all of these companies have big collection of phones ranging from basic phones to smart phones. For them to stay in business they have to compete with each other by throwing in features and frequent new phone. Apple spent almost 2 years to develop the current iPhone, they will not upgrade that fast. Beside, Apple seem to be very satisfied with sales figures so far (locked or unlocked). As someone pointed out in earlier post, they just released iPhone in Europe and maybe Asia in the next 2 months and releasing the 3G will cause the same reaction Apple got when they lowered the price $200 last year.
The iPhone strength comes from software updates not hardware. The reason others do unit update more often is because they cannot update the OS like Apple without updating the hardware.
However, Apple is not a phone company and all of these companies have big collection of phones ranging from basic phones to smart phones. For them to stay in business they have to compete with each other by throwing in features and frequent new phone. Apple spent almost 2 years to develop the current iPhone, they will not upgrade that fast. Beside, Apple seem to be very satisfied with sales figures so far (locked or unlocked). As someone pointed out in earlier post, they just released iPhone in Europe and maybe Asia in the next 2 months and releasing the 3G will cause the same reaction Apple got when they lowered the price $200 last year.
Nah, we're used to new phones every few months in Europe. The N95 for instance has had at least 3 revisions since launch and they've released at least a half dozen more phones since then. There's always a new model a month or so after you buy yours...unless you buy an iPhone.
Sales in Europe have been poor by comparison to the USA so for Apple's sake alone they need an update.
The iPhone strength comes from software updates not hardware. The reason others do unit update more often is because they cannot update the OS like Apple without updating the hardware.
Bullshit. Both Sony and Nokia have update services that update the phones over the air or via a PC/Mac. Generally it's just to fix bugs though, not add features that they didn't managed to finish before initial release.
The point about the camera in phones not being good is irrelevant. It only has to be on par with other phone cameras and you know nothing about photography if you think Apple's 2.0mp dinky toy lens and no flash is even close to being on par with even old trusty phones like the SE K800 or pretty much any 2 year old Nokia/SE. Then it's passable for a point-and-shoot snapper, which is what most people are happy with anyway.
However, Apple is not a phone company and all of these companies have big collection of phones ranging from basic phones to smart phones.
The iPhone is competing directly with these companies. Their new phones add capabilities more on par with the iPhone.
The iPhone strength comes from software updates not hardware. The reason others do unit update more often is because they cannot update the OS like Apple without updating the hardware.
Software updates cannot improve everything. Hardware needs to keep getting better too.
The point about the camera in phones not being good is irrelevant. It only has to be on par with other phone cameras and you know nothing about photography if you think Apple's 2.0mp dinky toy lens and no flash is even close to being on par with even old trusty phones like the SE K800 or pretty much any 2 year old Nokia/SE. Then it's passable for a point-and-shoot snapper, which is what most people are happy with anyway.
No one argued the iPhone's camera was great. We're actually saying its mediocre in an over all pretty mediocre category.
Phones with better cameras have to then sacrifice other features. Slower processor, smaller screen, less internal storage, bulkier or heavier dimensions. As Jeff stated earlier some of these phones are basically a point and shoot with a phone grafted on the back.
No one argued the iPhone's camera was great. We're actually saying its mediocre in an over all pretty mediocre category.
Phones with better cameras have to then sacrifice other features. Slower processor, smaller screen, less internal storage, bulkier or heavier dimensions. As Jeff stated earlier some of these phones are basically a point and shoot with a phone grafted on the back.
Huh? The iphone is a BIG phone by comparison to other phones already. It's surely got room for a better camera and a flash. How much room do you think these things take up these days?
Go look at a Nokia 6500 classic. It's only a 2mp camera so that's going to win points with those of you in denial but the phone is 3G, has a flash, is 9.5mm thin and gets 5+ hours talk time. Built like it's made out of solid metal too - nearly bought one last week. Takes pretty reasonable shots too. It's almost as small as my previous gen iPod Nano and I can use it as a 3G modem unlike the iPhone.
Bullshit. Both Sony and Nokia have update services that update the phones over the air or via a PC/Mac. Generally it's just to fix bugs though, not add features that they didn't managed to finish before initial release
Thank you. You prove my point "to fix bugs".
t only has to be on par with other phone cameras and you know nothing about photography if you think Apple's 2.0mp dinky toy lens and no flash is even close to being on par with even old trusty phones like the SE K800 or pretty much any 2 year old Nokia/SE
It seems you are the one who knows nothing about photography. My 5 years old Fujifilm 2.1MP camera make pictures better than some of the available 5MP cameras. I did not say that the iPhone camera is the best in the world, I said that pictures are good relative to the function. Sure K800i camera is great, but I doubt you will leave your real camera at home when you go on vacation.
Nah, we're used to new phones every few months in Europe. The N95 for instance has had at least 3 revisions since launch and they've released at least a half dozen more phones since then.
Is the iPhone really that different?
The N95 revisions seem a lot because there are specific versions for US 3G bands. If you were in Europe, you got that original model and the 8 GB version. In NAM, we got the original which didn't support USA 3G bands, and the N95-3 with USA 3G bands. The NAM N95 with 8 GB storage will come soon. So that's like 3 versions within a year in NAM. An EDGE version, a 3G version, and a soon to be 3G version with 8 GB. In Europe, it's really just two.
Contrast with Apple iPhone. Available in June with 4 and 8 GB versions. In January, a 16 GB version. In Summer, likely a 3G version, maybe a totally different model. Depending on how you count, that's 3 versions of the iPhone, maybe 4 if you count the 4 GB, within a year.
Now, Nokia, LG, Samsung, SE etc have new phone releases every few months. But that's because they have a lot of different phone models! Nokia probably has 100+. There aren't really major revisions within the same phone model every few months. Apple in 2 years will likely have more cell phone models. They could have an iPhone "nano", "max", and variations within. Then, we can maybe see more frequent Apple cell phone releases in the every few months category.
Sales in Europe have been poor by comparison to the USA so for Apple's sake alone they need an update.
I still contend that Apple is ok with the European sales. They are a very US centric company afterall.
Bullshit. Both Sony and Nokia have update services that update the phones over the air or via a PC/Mac. Generally it's just to fix bugs though, not add features that they didn't managed to finish before initial release.
Agree with you here. Many of the flagship or high dollar phones have updated firmware for bug fixes and new features. The added wrinkle with the iPhone is that since its UI is really virtual, major changes to it can occur. The keypad for both the dialing and text entry can change in a major way. The UI for the multimedia functions can change in a major way. Something, that really can't happen with most other phones.
The point about the camera in phones not being good is irrelevant. It only has to be on par with other phone cameras and you know nothing about photography if you think Apple's 2.0mp dinky toy lens and no flash is even close to being on par with even old trusty phones like the SE K800 or pretty much any 2 year old Nokia/SE. Then it's passable for a point-and-shoot snapper, which is what most people are happy with anyway.
Like in other threads, in the USA, the camera function hasn't become driving feature. It's cultural. I'd argue MMS is the same way.
However, what is passable functionality for people is quite a subjective thing. It can really be argued that most people won't take any better pictures with an SE or a Nokia when compared to an iPhone. Most people may not even be able to tell the difference. Even with point-n-shoots, most people take such crappy pictures that a person with an iPhone may take the same quality photos.
I'd also argue digital point-and-shoots don't take better pictures than film point-and-shoots. Just not there yet in low light or difficult lighting conditions, which seems the vast majority of times, but that's a different forum.
It's surely got room for a better camera and a flash. How much room do you think these things take up these days?
Yes it could easily have a flash. But it does not have room for the camera in the Viewty or Nokia N95.
Go look at a Nokia 6500 classic. It's only a 2mp camera so that's going to win points with those of you in denial.
Slower processor, smaller screen, significantly less storage, does not use a desktop OS or apps.
I don't think we will see 3G phone this year, maybe at Macworld 2009 when they have nothing else to offer for the current model.
Nope. Apple's already stated that they're going to launch in Asia in 2008, and for that, they definitely need a 3G iPhone.
Not to mention their Euro sales need help... again, "This looks like a job for..." the 3G iPhone.
Truth, Justice, and Modern Data Speeds...
.
The point about the camera in phones not being good is irrelevant. It only has to be on par with other phone cameras and you know nothing about photography if you think Apple's 2.0mp dinky toy lens and no flash is even close to being on par with even old trusty phones like the SE K800 or pretty much any 2 year old Nokia/SE. Then it's passable for a point-and-shoot snapper, which is what most people are happy with anyway.
Bingo.
Fact is, IT DOESN'T MATTER that cameraphones aren't as good as dedicated cameras... we all KNOW that already. But to listen to some ppl talk, the question at hand is whether to buy an iPHONE or a NIKON Digital Camera. But IT'S NOT... obviously.
The REAL QUESTION is, is someone going to buy an iPHONE or A COMPETING HIGH END CELLPHONE... and is the iPHONE's specs-poor camera a further strike against it?
People here may not LIKE the fact that potential buyers look at spec sheets and go:
"Hmm...iPHONE: 2.0 MP camera and NO video capture... Nokia N95 (or whatever), 5.0 MP camera, AND video capture... WOW, looks like the Nokia WHIPS ASS on the iPHONE there."
But they DO, and that's not going to change anytime soon. So, Apple can either protest that it's not all about megapixels and "who needs video capture anyway" (lol), a strategy which won't help or matter, or they can address the issue directly by closing the spec gap. The Broadcom chipset definitely supports them doing just that on the 3G iPhone.
I'm sure Nokia and Apple's other competitors would LOVE it if Apple just left the camera as is on the next iPhone and proclaimed it "didn't matter", or that specs are misleading. Sigh.
.
The iPhone is competing directly with these companies. Their new phones add capabilities more on par with the iPhone.
...Software updates cannot improve everything. Hardware needs to keep getting better too.
Who are you and what have you done with Teno???
.
Yes it could easily have a flash. But it does not have room for the camera in the Viewty or Nokia N95.
Do you know that for certain, and if so, how? Have you researched the iPhone teardowns in great detail or something?
And, MUCH more importantly, how do you know that a 3G iPhone won't have room for a better camera, considering that we don't know what the dimensions for it will be yet, or how much room the new (and allegedly quite compact) chipset will be taking up?
Speculation is all n' good Teno, but, c'mon.
.