Weather and note are significant upgrades? Surely you jest! They are widgets! I guess you'd pay for anything Apple offers to charge you for.
Er... No. If I had an iPod Touch, I wouldn't have bought those apps because they aren't worth to me what Apple is charging. I'd certainly have nothing to complain about.
Why is it so difficult for people to grasp that you don't have to purchase and install an update just because it exists?
I've got a PowerBook G4 running 10.3 and a MacBook running 10.4. Am I rushing out to buy OS 10.5 for each of them and/or bitching that said upgrade costs money? No. I'm just not buying 10.5 because it's not worth to me what Apple charges for it.
Well, I hope I'm reading between the lines with Apple correctly here. I'm guessing that after the 2.0 release in June, developers with the free SDK will also be able to install apps to their devices (once they upgrade to 2.0). Apple typically only hands out OS pre-releases to paying developers (which I'm assuming 2.0 is required for the apps), and I'm guessing that is mostly the reason behind the charge (plus tech support). That would follow Apple's typical development model (paying developers get at least some OS pre-releases, plus some tech support). Otherwise, you might have some developers purely doing development on an emulator, which really is not the best way to test apps.
At the end of the presentation Steve Jobbs should have said "So anyone that already has an iPod touch, thanks. And anyone that doesn't you would be an idiot to buy one now"
All this fuss over what will probably be a $20 fee like last time. Aren't minor (and let's not bullshit- $20 is nothing) charges for large software updates infinitely better than having to go out and buy a new product every time something new comes out? It's a system update. No different than if you decide to buy or not buy Leopard- except a crap-load cheaper!
There IS a difference between the iPhone and iPod Touch, one is a subscriber platform and one is a one time sale device.
I do hope that the possibilities to BUY apps in the App Store won’t be cost me 20 Dollar or 18 Euro again, they better make it cheaper than the last update. If it’s just for accounting purposes anything like 5 to 10 dollars should be sufficient, or is there a certain value specified? Any one proficient in accounting and/or Sarbannes-Oxley?
The n-update for the Airport Extreme was priced competitively (2 Euro) plus Apple let you apply it on every mac in your possession. Something that’s not legally accomplished with the Application Pack.
They? Whom are you referring to? Its not apple thats going to setting the price for the apps but its the developers. If you don't like one developers price then go with another. Hello? Was anybody paying attention to today's announcements?
EDIT: I think your confusing the price for apps with the cost of the ipod touch getting the firmware 2.0 update.
They? Whom are you referring to? Its not apple thats going to setting the price for the apps but its the developers. If you don't like one developers price then go with another. Hello? Was anybody paying attention to today's announcements?
EDIT: I think your confusing the price for apps with the cost of the ipod touch getting the firmware 2.0 update.
He's talking about the fact that the third-party apps will only run on version 2.0 of the iPhone/iPod Touch OS, and that this update (from Apple) will be charged for, for iPod Touch users.
You're an idiot. Do you pay for a new version of Office? Yes. Do you pay for a new version of Photoshop? Yes. Do you pay for a new version of iLife? Yes. Do you pay... ad infinititum ... Yes.
So STFU. And enjoy your Nokia +!45 (that reads upside down BTW). When you come back like the Prodigal Son don't worry, though. We'll take you back and kill the fatted calf and all... We're good like that.
Why is it the noobs always think they have the right to attack everyone? Is it the brio that comes from joining in?
2) I am suggesting that Apple should find a source of income that is reasonable and stick with that. Don't slug both the creator and user just to access something that will sell more of their devices. Its just plain stupid.
3) No problem. I am sure I will have frustrations there too. But at least I will be able to compile and upload my own software to my own device without having to pay someone for it.
Oh and you must be right about smoking something. I just didn't realise how many people are willing to be slugged so much so many times. And just incase you are wondering. As a programmer I am unlikely to pay for someone to have access to my free APP over and above what I already have to pay for hosting. Also as a programmer who does actually want to make a living I thought you might want to know that if I did create an app for the iPhone / Touch I would be passing on every bit of the cost Apple was charging me so to put this into perspective I would be raising my intended cost by 30% just to cover Apples 30% (it would actually have to be a little more than 30% because of course Apple would be slugging the 30% I just put on to cover them). Also I am going to work out how many copies of my app I think I will sell and dived the posting fee by that. So my $5 app just became $8.50. I really thought people were a little smarter than this. And again Apple love you.
Will you please calculate for us how many copies of your app you will have to sell
to recoup your fees? How many to make a living? How many to help Apple sell
more iPhones.
Thanks.
Also, you should not rag on people willing to spend $20. They are the same ones who would
How do you figure you are paying for this upgrade through your monthly fee? Did you rate increase? That's just nonsense.
Technically, it's the accounting model, not the monthly fee from ATT. It's just easier to explain it in layman's terms by saying monthly fee.
The subscription accounting model, applied to the iphone and apple tv, defers the revenue from the accounting books over a period of time, 2 years, I believe. It's less profitable in the short term, but allows them to make the updates necessary to stay competitive without charging.
Ipods (and the Ipod touch) are not under this accounting model. So when the ipod touch is purchased, that revenue is claimed in full immediately. Thus, any such updates are required by law to carry a charge consistent with market value.
Technically, it's the accounting model, not the monthly fee from ATT. It's just easier to explain it in layman's terms by saying monthly fee.
The subscription accounting model, applied to the iphone and apple tv, defers the revenue from the accounting books over a period of time, 2 years, I believe. It's less profitable in the short term, but allows them to make the updates necessary to stay competitive without charging.
Ipods (and the Ipod touch) are not under this accounting model. So when the ipod touch is purchased, that revenue is claimed in full immediately. Thus, any such updates are required by law to carry a charge consistent with market value.
Thank you for the post. Maybe if it is repeated often enough it will start to penetrate
the consciousness of people fixated on Apple's "greed". Also, investors should note
that the subscription accounting model allows quarterly earnings to appear less "lumpy"
or cyclical, which appeals to institutional investors (thus eventually making the stock
I hear what you're saying. Years back a waitress friend of mine complained that people always ask for extra but don't want to pay for it... Can I have extra sauce? Can I have extra whipping cream? Can I have an extra tea bag? It drove her crazy that people request more than they paid for, but then expect that it will not cost.
Either this is a poor example or your friend was an enormous cheapskate, since the massive markups that restaurants charge on items they buy at below-retail prices makes free extras on stuff like tea, whipped cream, etc. actually pretty reasonable. Most places charge $1 or $2 for a cup of tea with one bag when they're buying a box of 100 bags for $3. Obviously it's unreasonable for customers to, say, order a side of mashed potatoes and expect it to get replenished at will, but when it comes to condiments and beverages, it's a very reasonable thing to do in the name of decent customer service. Also, it depends on the kind of restaurant she worked at--diners and places like Applebee's etc. kind of cultivate an expectation of free refills, wheras most people would agree it falls outside the standard of expected behavior at really fancy restaurants.
Now, now, ALPICH is entitled to complain. Obviously, from what he says, it costs you nothing to be a WinCE or RIM developer, and they distribute your apps for nothing, and give you 100% of the price. That being the case, Apple will obviously fail in competition with these humanitarian organizations, and utopia will ensue.
Most places charge $1 or $2 for a cup of tea with one bag when they're buying a box of 100 bags for $3.
And as we all know, the costs of restaurants and diners are only for the raw materials! There's no rent, utility bills, management, marketing, waiter/waitress salaries or anything like that!
Are you that ignorant? 30% is very little. I am a mobile developer and every store I use charges me 20-50%. If I use my own, I still pay 3-4% for CC fees from VIsa/MasterCard.
This is very very good. And $99 is nothing. I pay MS $1500 a year for the same privilege and RIM $2500.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatesbasher
Now, now, ALPICH is entitled to complain. Obviously, from what he says, it costs you nothing to be a WinCE or RIM developer, and they distribute your apps for nothing, and give you 100% of the price. That being the case, Apple will obviously fail in competition with these humanitarian organizations, and utopia will ensue.
So which one is it?
As for ALPICH he has a right to complain, but Apple NEVER promised the upgrade would be free. I think it is misleading and it sucks. I'm facing the same situation with my Airport Extreme base station. I went and bought that and a nice 500gb hard drive in anticipation of wireless back up that was one of the features of Leopard. I won't be surprised if they charge for a firmware update that 'enables' this feature.
Comments
Er... No. If I had an iPod Touch, I wouldn't have bought those apps because they aren't worth to me what Apple is charging. I'd certainly have nothing to complain about.
Why is it so difficult for people to grasp that you don't have to purchase and install an update just because it exists?
I've got a PowerBook G4 running 10.3 and a MacBook running 10.4. Am I rushing out to buy OS 10.5 for each of them and/or bitching that said upgrade costs money? No. I'm just not buying 10.5 because it's not worth to me what Apple charges for it.
Ok, maybe I missed it but I didn't see anything about developers getting access to the dock connector with the new SDK. Did I miss something?
I think dock access is limited. Unless your a bigshot company ready to strike a sweet deal with Apple I don't think your going to get access to it.
At the end of the presentation Steve Jobbs should have said "So anyone that already has an iPod touch, thanks. And anyone that doesn't you would be an idiot to buy one now"
All this fuss over what will probably be a $20 fee like last time. Aren't minor (and let's not bullshit- $20 is nothing) charges for large software updates infinitely better than having to go out and buy a new product every time something new comes out? It's a system update. No different than if you decide to buy or not buy Leopard- except a crap-load cheaper!
There IS a difference between the iPhone and iPod Touch, one is a subscriber platform and one is a one time sale device.
I do hope that the possibilities to BUY apps in the App Store won’t be cost me 20 Dollar or 18 Euro again, they better make it cheaper than the last update. If it’s just for accounting purposes anything like 5 to 10 dollars should be sufficient, or is there a certain value specified? Any one proficient in accounting and/or Sarbannes-Oxley?
The n-update for the Airport Extreme was priced competitively (2 Euro) plus Apple let you apply it on every mac in your possession. Something that’s not legally accomplished with the Application Pack.
They? Whom are you referring to? Its not apple thats going to setting the price for the apps but its the developers. If you don't like one developers price then go with another. Hello? Was anybody paying attention to today's announcements?
EDIT: I think your confusing the price for apps with the cost of the ipod touch getting the firmware 2.0 update.
They? Whom are you referring to? Its not apple thats going to setting the price for the apps but its the developers. If you don't like one developers price then go with another. Hello? Was anybody paying attention to today's announcements?
EDIT: I think your confusing the price for apps with the cost of the ipod touch getting the firmware 2.0 update.
He's talking about the fact that the third-party apps will only run on version 2.0 of the iPhone/iPod Touch OS, and that this update (from Apple) will be charged for, for iPod Touch users.
All this fuss over what will probably be a $20 fee like last time. .
IIRC the$20.00 was for 4 apps, so at $5.00 each they set the bar for minor apps.
You're an idiot. Do you pay for a new version of Office? Yes. Do you pay for a new version of Photoshop? Yes. Do you pay for a new version of iLife? Yes. Do you pay... ad infinititum ... Yes.
So STFU. And enjoy your Nokia +!45 (that reads upside down BTW). When you come back like the Prodigal Son don't worry, though. We'll take you back and kill the fatted calf and all... We're good like that.
Why is it the noobs always think they have the right to attack everyone? Is it the brio that comes from joining in?
To answer your points 1 at a time
1) There is still a $99 fee just to allow access to your free software. Check the site:
Standard Program $99
The Standard Program is for developers who are creating free and commercial applications for iPhone and iPod touch.
(got that at the bottom of http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/ so I think I can trust it)
2) I am suggesting that Apple should find a source of income that is reasonable and stick with that. Don't slug both the creator and user just to access something that will sell more of their devices. Its just plain stupid.
3) No problem. I am sure I will have frustrations there too. But at least I will be able to compile and upload my own software to my own device without having to pay someone for it.
Oh and you must be right about smoking something. I just didn't realise how many people are willing to be slugged so much so many times. And just incase you are wondering. As a programmer I am unlikely to pay for someone to have access to my free APP over and above what I already have to pay for hosting. Also as a programmer who does actually want to make a living I thought you might want to know that if I did create an app for the iPhone / Touch I would be passing on every bit of the cost Apple was charging me so to put this into perspective I would be raising my intended cost by 30% just to cover Apples 30% (it would actually have to be a little more than 30% because of course Apple would be slugging the 30% I just put on to cover them). Also I am going to work out how many copies of my app I think I will sell and dived the posting fee by that. So my $5 app just became $8.50. I really thought people were a little smarter than this. And again Apple love you.
Will you please calculate for us how many copies of your app you will have to sell
to recoup your fees? How many to make a living? How many to help Apple sell
more iPhones.
Thanks.
Also, you should not rag on people willing to spend $20. They are the same ones who would
consider spending $8.50 on your stuff.
How do you figure you are paying for this upgrade through your monthly fee? Did you rate increase? That's just nonsense.
Technically, it's the accounting model, not the monthly fee from ATT. It's just easier to explain it in layman's terms by saying monthly fee.
The subscription accounting model, applied to the iphone and apple tv, defers the revenue from the accounting books over a period of time, 2 years, I believe. It's less profitable in the short term, but allows them to make the updates necessary to stay competitive without charging.
Ipods (and the Ipod touch) are not under this accounting model. So when the ipod touch is purchased, that revenue is claimed in full immediately. Thus, any such updates are required by law to carry a charge consistent with market value.
Why is it the noobs always think they have the right to attack everyone? Is it the brio that comes from joining in?
If you want to talk about the Bush family, take it to another forum.
Technically, it's the accounting model, not the monthly fee from ATT. It's just easier to explain it in layman's terms by saying monthly fee.
The subscription accounting model, applied to the iphone and apple tv, defers the revenue from the accounting books over a period of time, 2 years, I believe. It's less profitable in the short term, but allows them to make the updates necessary to stay competitive without charging.
Ipods (and the Ipod touch) are not under this accounting model. So when the ipod touch is purchased, that revenue is claimed in full immediately. Thus, any such updates are required by law to carry a charge consistent with market value.
Thank you for the post. Maybe if it is repeated often enough it will start to penetrate
the consciousness of people fixated on Apple's "greed". Also, investors should note
that the subscription accounting model allows quarterly earnings to appear less "lumpy"
or cyclical, which appeals to institutional investors (thus eventually making the stock
price higher and less volatile).
I hear what you're saying. Years back a waitress friend of mine complained that people always ask for extra but don't want to pay for it... Can I have extra sauce? Can I have extra whipping cream? Can I have an extra tea bag? It drove her crazy that people request more than they paid for, but then expect that it will not cost.
Either this is a poor example or your friend was an enormous cheapskate, since the massive markups that restaurants charge on items they buy at below-retail prices makes free extras on stuff like tea, whipped cream, etc. actually pretty reasonable. Most places charge $1 or $2 for a cup of tea with one bag when they're buying a box of 100 bags for $3. Obviously it's unreasonable for customers to, say, order a side of mashed potatoes and expect it to get replenished at will, but when it comes to condiments and beverages, it's a very reasonable thing to do in the name of decent customer service. Also, it depends on the kind of restaurant she worked at--diners and places like Applebee's etc. kind of cultivate an expectation of free refills, wheras most people would agree it falls outside the standard of expected behavior at really fancy restaurants.
Most places charge $1 or $2 for a cup of tea with one bag when they're buying a box of 100 bags for $3.
And as we all know, the costs of restaurants and diners are only for the raw materials! There's no rent, utility bills, management, marketing, waiter/waitress salaries or anything like that!
Are you that ignorant? 30% is very little. I am a mobile developer and every store I use charges me 20-50%. If I use my own, I still pay 3-4% for CC fees from VIsa/MasterCard.
This is very very good. And $99 is nothing. I pay MS $1500 a year for the same privilege and RIM $2500.
Now, now, ALPICH is entitled to complain. Obviously, from what he says, it costs you nothing to be a WinCE or RIM developer, and they distribute your apps for nothing, and give you 100% of the price. That being the case, Apple will obviously fail in competition with these humanitarian organizations, and utopia will ensue.
So which one is it?
As for ALPICH he has a right to complain, but Apple NEVER promised the upgrade would be free. I think it is misleading and it sucks. I'm facing the same situation with my Airport Extreme base station. I went and bought that and a nice 500gb hard drive in anticipation of wireless back up that was one of the features of Leopard. I won't be surprised if they charge for a firmware update that 'enables' this feature.
haha. during schiller's exchange server demo regarding the calendar, one of schiller's appointments for the day is "brainstorm new apple rumors."
Does he mean:
1. discuss apple rumors that already exist
2. think of a rumor to leak and get everybody all riled up
3. he just wants to tweak everyone he knows is obsessively
examining and interpreting every little thing in the presentation
???
funny anyway