Suppliers hope Apple Newton pad boosts Flash orders

2456

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 106
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by serpicolugnut View Post


    Jobs hated the Newton for many reasons, the least of which is that it was the brainchild of Sculley, the man responsible for his ouster from Apple. The Newton aint coming back folks.



    Now, that's not to say Apple wouldn't come out with a device that would look like an iPod Touch with a 6-9" screen. Once the 3rd party apps start flowing, Apple will have an entire ecosystem built around mobile OS X, so I would guess any UMPC type device would probably run that instead of Mac OS X. I'd love to be wrong, but I see Apple promoting the platform where it can control everything, like it does with mobile OS X.



    The Newton is coming back, it just won't be called the Newton.

    It may be called "The Newton Done Right...".

    Look for SJ to openly say the new product goes way beyond the "Limitations of the Newton".

    I can just see SJ on stage finally getting the last reminant of the stupid Scully crap.

    SJ brought Intel back, and that fixed one thing that went bad due to Scully.

    SJ is going to enjoy fixing the newton just as much as fixing the CPU debacle.....
  • Reply 22 of 106
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    The Atom chip is much smaller, but does also require a support chip, which is also much smaller than the chips for the Merom. The power consumption is about 10%, or less than the Merom, depending on the speed of the chips.



    That sounds like a great it for the MBA and a way of making the battery life much more attractive for someone like me, especially since you can't remove the battery.
  • Reply 23 of 106
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,335member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by amerist View Post


    Phil and the rumor machine is at it again. I go away from the computer for two days and come back to read about this supposed 'newton pad'. When did apple ever let something that significant leak out?



    Never mind the fact that apple wants to see its iphone and touch platforms do well. Introducing a tablet right now would not be good business for them. And as far as ultra-portable goes they would be shooting themselves in the foot, having just released the macbook air... Helloooo that WAS the ultra-portable. It doesn't get much smaller than that, folks.



    For those who are drooling over the thought of an eee-pc sized mac should wake up and smell the coffee. Same with the newton/tablet fanatics.



    We're talking about different things here. Those of us who have been talking about a model with about a 4" x 7" screen aren't talking about a MacBook Air replacement. These would be two totally different markets.



    I don't know if Apple would ever produce one of these, but I sure would like one.
  • Reply 24 of 106
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,335member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    That sounds like a great it for the MBA and a way of making the battery life much more attractive for someone like me, especially since you can't remove the battery.



    When the 2nd generation chips come out, and will have two cores, it might be possible.
  • Reply 25 of 106
    Quote:

    Imagine being able to carry a magazine sized screen anywhere (to places like laptops are too cumbersome)



    What is the difference between this mythical tablet and a Macbook Air? Having a keyboard? (a pretty useful input device in most peoples opinions) It would solve most of the same problems if they just let you flip the screen of the Air around and enabled a touch interface on it.



    Maybe you could make a tablet just a skosh thinner, but you are running into real rigidity and weight constraints with the materials involved if you want a larger screen than the iPhone/iPod. True flexible displays are not there yet, so unless they have a non glass, durable as hell, high luminosity, touch display that we have heard nothing of, the weight of the screen alone limits this device.



    I am holding my iPhone now and pondering a larger device. The iPhone was bashed for its weight (although I think people were actually just surprised by its density not its total weight as it it only 1oz about the average). If you just use the same technologies and scale it up to the 6-8" diagonal people want...you have a device that would likely weigh in at around 1.3 pounds. Pretty hefty and halfway to the weight of a full ntoebook. No one wants a "Kindle-like" screen on these do they? That is the only way around weight/size issues that put you right back in laptop land imo.
  • Reply 26 of 106
    zanshinzanshin Posts: 350member
    There's a lot of differences in markets served by a medium-sized "tablet" (with a Touch or iPhone being a small tablet) and the laptop computer form figure of the MBA.



    The MBA (or any laptop or notebook PC) requires a space equal to the height times the width of the device when opened for use. It also relies on a delicate hinge to mount the viewing surface to the CPU/input area. A multi-touch tablet reduces the space requirement to simply the height times the width of the device (or a laptop closed), with one exterior surface being both viewing area and input area. A further reduced size (say, 5" x 7") would allow easier transport than the notebook while eliminating the issue of having to use it in a folded position, something very difficult to do while standing or otherwise "on the move."



    Unfortunately, the unfolded screen of a laptop allows a keyboard to hide underneath it, and provides a hard-case back to protect the screen when closed.



    If the MBA had multitouch instead of a keyboard, and the screen opened completely around to fix in a tablet-like configuration, it might serve as Apple's first round at producing the ultimate ultraportable tablet. I'd still prefer one that would fit in a large coat pocket or leg-side cargo pocket on trousers. And without the need for a keyboard, there might be room for maybe an ExpressCard/34 slot and FW800 for expansion.
  • Reply 27 of 106
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mbene12 View Post


    What is the difference between this mythical tablet and a Macbook Air? Having a keyboard? (a pretty useful input device in most peoples opinions) It would solve most of the same problems if they just let you flip the screen of the Air around and enabled a touch interface on it.



    Maybe you could make a tablet just a skosh thinner, but you are running into real rigidity and weight constraints with the materials involved if you want a larger screen than the iPhone/iPod. True flexible displays are not there yet, so unless they have a non glass, durable as hell, high luminosity, touch display that we have heard nothing of, the weight of the screen alone limits this device.



    I am holding my iPhone now and pondering a larger device. The iPhone was bashed for its weight (although I think people were actually just surprised by its density not its total weight as it it only 1oz about the average). If you just use the same technologies and scale it up to the 6-8" diagonal people want...you have a device that would likely weigh in at around 1.3 pounds. Pretty hefty and halfway to the weight of a full ntoebook. No one wants a "Kindle-like" screen on these do they? That is the only way around weight/size issues that put you right back in laptop land imo.



    What's the difference?????



    You're kidding.



    How about try this.



    What's the difference between the MBA and an iMac?

    The way you're looking at this, the MBA is a little more portable than the iMac.



    Believe me, a Newtenesq tablet done right will fill up a market the touch is trying to fill from one end and the MBA is trying to fill from the other end.

    The gap is too big to be bridged, and a product right in the middle would fill out the line.

    Wouldn't hurt the touch, but would result in the touch staying in the "pc in your pants" market.
  • Reply 28 of 106
    olternautolternaut Posts: 1,376member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zanshin View Post


    There's a lot of differences in markets served by a medium-sized "tablet" (with a Touch or iPhone being a small tablet) and the laptop computer form figure of the MBA.



    The MBA (or any laptop or notebook PC) requires a space equal to the height times the width of the device when opened for use. It also relies on a delicate hinge to mount the viewing surface to the CPU/input area. A multi-touch tablet reduces the space requirement to simply the height times the width of the device (or a laptop closed), with one exterior surface being both viewing area and input area. A further reduced size (say, 5" x 7") would allow easier transport than the notebook while eliminating the issue of having to use it in a folded position, something very difficult to do while standing or otherwise "on the move."



    Unfortunately, the unfolded screen of a laptop allows a keyboard to hide underneath it, and provides a hard-case back to protect the screen when closed.



    If the MBA had multitouch instead of a keyboard, and the screen opened completely around to fix in a tablet-like configuration, it might serve as Apple's first round at producing the ultimate ultraportable tablet. I'd still prefer one that would fit in a large coat pocket or leg-side cargo pocket on trousers. And without the need for a keyboard, there might be room for maybe an ExpressCard/34 slot and FW800 for expansion.



    When the mystery device finally reveals itself I don't think its going to be like a tablet pc where they simply ripped off the keyboard from a laptop. I think its more likely going to be something that you can fit into a pocket.

    My gawd its post SDK doesn't anybody know or has figured out any details on future devices coming from apple? I thought the idea that was going around was to dive into the SDK to search for clues about Apple's possible product roadmap. Well? Its been a few days and I'm sure the SDK beta has been downloaded thousands upon thousands of times already. Is there any word yet on the inner workings of the SDK?
  • Reply 29 of 106
    Quote:

    Wouldn't hurt the touch, but would result in the touch staying in the "pc in your pants" market.



    I would imagine there would be massive cannibalization of the touch market



    Quote:

    What's the difference?????



    You're kidding.



    How about try this.



    What's the difference between the MBA and an iMac?

    The way you're looking at this, the MBA is a little more portable than the iMac.





    Come on. Thats over the top. There is clear differentiation between notebook and desktop roles for one. A factor 9 difference in weight (not including keyboard mouse power cord). The touch/iPhone does/will do 80-90% of what you want in this tablet, and the MBA will cover the desired performance. Im not saying this FrankenTablet wouldnt be a nice device that many people would like, I am strongly of the opinion that there just isnt enough room between the touch/iPhone and MBA for such a device to be worthwhile.



    I
  • Reply 30 of 106
    kolchakkolchak Posts: 1,398member
    I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I love my iPod touch and its incredible portability, but there are definitely times when I wouldn't mind a bigger screen, especially for the virtual keyboard. Yes, battery life would suffer, but it could offset that with a battery much larger than the touch has. The ultimate killer app for me would be if this could become a MultiTouch pointing device when it's connected to a Mac. Imagine it: MultiTouch like an iGesture along with onscreen functions that could change with each application. More than just a desktop pointing device, more than just a portable device. It's both! That could take the market by storm. Death to the Mighty Mouse!



    As for all the naysayers here, I suspect most of the same people also said Apple would never make an ultralight again, and we all know how that turned out.
  • Reply 31 of 106
    mjteixmjteix Posts: 563member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    1) How large is the Atom chip compared to the 22mm^2 Merom used in the MBA?



    2) What the power usage differences between the 1.87GHz Atom and the 1.8GHz MBA Merom?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    The Atom chip is much smaller, but does also require a support chip, which is also much smaller than the chips for the Merom. The power consumption is about 10%, or less than the Merom, depending on the speed of the chips.



    Size and power usage are significantly lower than Merom LV.



    Silverthorne 1.6GHz 13mmx14mm 2W (4W with the chipset)





    Diamondville SC 1.87GHz 22mmx22mm 4W (7.5W with the 945 chipset similar to what's in a Mac mini today)

    Diamondville DC 1.87GHz 8W (12W with the 945 chipset)







    Keep in mind that those chips don't have all the technologies of the Core architecture (Cache, FSB, SSE...) but are multithread capable (2 threads per core). So in terms of raw power the Diamondville DC is powerful, we have no idea yet about how it could compare to a full fledge Merom or penryn at the same clock.



    What's also interesting will be the price of those chips, silverthorne 1.6GHz may start at $29!!!!!

    http://notebookitalia.it/roadmap-lis...atom-1753.html
  • Reply 32 of 106
    iq78iq78 Posts: 256member
    Folks, Apple's timing and plans have been simply brilliant since the 2nd coming of Steve.



    Their moves into the music industry were amazing. Their move into retail were spectacular. Their move into the minds of the "switcher" have been very well done, especially with the switch to intel. Their move into the cell phone world is a Trojan for establishing themselves in the mobile market. I think they've made some early mistakes in the movie industry. They should have attacked the rental business earlier, and I'm not sure how well their aTV will go. Personally I'm digging Netflix's Instant View. I would kill my cable completely if aTV would offer a $25/month subsription service to a huge movie+TVshow instant view database, like Netflix currently is offering. But I'm getting sidetracked.



    I believe Apple will has enough critical mass in the iPhone+iTouch world to build a software eco-system with the SDK they just released. Once this is established, it will quickly make OSXmobile the mobile platform (much like iPod is the platform music players) If Apple can get a critical mass of developers for OSXmobile as an open platform it will increase the success of any mobile device released by Apple by an order of magnitude more than a device released into a developer vacuum. At that point Apple may even allow other devices to use OSXmobile, which will bring that many more switchers to OSX in the PC world. They really have an oppertunity to PHUK microsoft in a big way.



    So, in summary, I say they won't release a new device until they see a critical mass of great applications for the iPhone and iTouch. Once a software eco-system has been established on the iPhone+iTouch, then the new device will be backwards compatible + have new features and use OSXmobile. They then might allow other companies to use OSXmobile on their own smart phones, while Apple works on turning the world into a OSX world instead of Windows world, since the new world will be mobile. We will see.
  • Reply 33 of 106
    quinneyquinney Posts: 2,528member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    With the price of NAND flash memory slumping below manufacturers' cost, Taiwanese suppliers are looking towards Apple's next big thing in hopes that it will help revitalize the market later this year.



    Citing sources at Taiwan memory makers, DigiTimes notes that despite procuring about $1.2 to 1.3 billion worth of NAND flash memory for its products in calendar year 2007, Apple has yet to place any substantial orders this year.




    I wonder if the lack of orders from Taiwanese memory makers is an indication that

    Apple will start buying lots of NAND from Intel/Micron. Intel's announcements

    about making SSD's also points in this direction.
  • Reply 34 of 106
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,335member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mbene12 View Post


    I would imagine there would be massive cannibalization of the touch market





    Come on. Thats over the top. There is clear differentiation between notebook and desktop roles for one. A factor 9 difference in weight (not including keyboard mouse power cord). The touch/iPhone does/will do 80-90% of what you want in this tablet, and the MBA will cover the desired performance. Im not saying this FrankenTablet wouldnt be a nice device that many people would like, I am strongly of the opinion that there just isnt enough room between the touch/iPhone and MBA for such a device to be worthwhile.



    I



    If this device came out, and it had a 4" x 7" screen with an 840 x 480 rez, much more could be done with it. The interface could even be more sophisticated than the simple one on the smaller devices. That could be an option, one click away, allowing the same programs from the iPhone/iTouch to work. They could also have their GUI's upgraded so that they would work with either.



    The on screen keyboard would be vastly better, even in vertical mode. In horiz mode, it would be a killer!



    This would make it possible, once Apple moves to the Atom chip line, to finally allow some Mac programs to work with less re-writing, and with less interface changes required by the 480x 320 screen.



    This size would still be beltable, unlike a larger model, and that would make the world of a difference. for those who don't remember, the Newton was also beltable, the first computer in any form that was. It was the feature that allowed it to be taken everywhere. Modern technology would allow this to be much thinner, and lighter, than the Newton, and even easier to carry.



    It would also allow the multitouch, but stylus free, GUI to function in a way that would allow more programs than would be effective on the smaller devices, such as drawing and painting programs.



    Watching movies, Tv shows, and music videos would be far better.



    In fact, everything would be more effective, from Safari, with less zooming required, to word processing and spreadsheets, to music composition, and even some basic, but decent photo editors, such as iPhoto.



    If it could be used with a wireless headset, and had phone capability, even better.
  • Reply 35 of 106
    desarcdesarc Posts: 642member
    Taiwaneese memory manufacturers are hoping that an imaginary product will save them from losing billions of dollars.
  • Reply 36 of 106
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,335member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by desarc View Post


    Taiwaneese memory manufacturers are hoping that an imaginary product will save them from losing billions of dollars.



    I don't think that's correct. But if it is correct that Apple has put some orders for Flash off so far, they must be wondering why.
  • Reply 37 of 106
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zanshin View Post


    There's a lot of differences in markets served by a medium-sized "tablet" (with a Touch or iPhone being a small tablet) and the laptop computer form figure of the MBA.



    The MBA (or any laptop or notebook PC) requires a space equal to the height times the width of the device when opened for use. It also relies on a delicate hinge to mount the viewing surface to the CPU/input area. A multi-touch tablet reduces the space requirement to simply the height times the width of the device (or a laptop closed), with one exterior surface being both viewing area and input area. A further reduced size (say, 5" x 7") would allow easier transport than the notebook while eliminating the issue of having to use it in a folded position, something very difficult to do while standing or otherwise "on the move."



    Unfortunately, the unfolded screen of a laptop allows a keyboard to hide underneath it, and provides a hard-case back to protect the screen when closed.



    If the MBA had multitouch instead of a keyboard, and the screen opened completely around to fix in a tablet-like configuration, it might serve as Apple's first round at producing the ultimate ultraportable tablet. I'd still prefer one that would fit in a large coat pocket or leg-side cargo pocket on trousers. And without the need for a keyboard, there might be room for maybe an ExpressCard/34 slot and FW800 for expansion.



    The problem with a (e.g.) MBA that opens 360 is that the back of the device becomes a bunch of chicklets. You'd need hinge that allowed the keyboard to be rotated so that when turned into a tablet, the keyboard would lie against the back of the display. This would all require one hell of a versatile hinge. And as cool as that would be, you still now have a device that's twice the thickness it really needs to be for most of its use.

    I still say, 4.5 x 7" tablet with a fold-able, docking keyboard that provides expansion capabilities. Slips into a little case, pouch, purse, backpack.

    Bottom line is that there's for sure a demographic for the device. The question is, is it big enough to bother with (or can good marketing grow the demographic.)



    People don't buy big honkin' SUVs because they need them... they buy them because they've been convinced through advertising that they need them.
  • Reply 38 of 106
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post


    It doesn't matter that the newton did not originally come from Jobs. People loved the thing and after Steve killed it and years have passed people still love it to death.



    I don't see Jobs as hating Newton, but rather he was thrown into a situation where he literally had to save the company. When a CEO is in such a position he often has to do things that people don't like often things he doesn't like himself.

    Quote:

    He realizes by now that the world wants not simply a mobile computer but really to take their desktop with them in their pockets.



    No not really! The last thing I would want is a desktop in my pocket!!! In my case anyways what I want is an iPod optimized for the playback of video and at the same time having the same flexibility with Apps as the current Touch.



    The problem with devices like this is that people often ask for to much considering what the technology can deliver. The technology simply isn't there to deliver a desktop equivalent in a devices as thin as a Touch. This is what many of us want a thin device in the mold of Touch but with a larger screen. Sized right it would be an excellent video iPod and a excellent replacement for Newton. Keeping its focus on the iPod segment would lead to considerable sales dragging along the Newton functionality.

    Quote:

    An iphone will do a lot of that but it still won't be enough. People want the newton back but in a way that will thrive in today's world.



    Yes and that is why it needs to be developed as a video iPod first and foremost. Like the current Touch the auxiliary functionality will naturally develop. A thriving device is important and the way to do that is to get the device accepted in the mass market first. A device with good generic functionality will quickly be found out by the people who want to exploit its "computer" side.

    Quote:

    So not only is Steve going to reinvent the umpc or mid. He is going to reinvent the newton itself using his own vision of what it should be what it should have been.



    The original Newton was simply the result of the technology available at the time. So too will be the Newton 2! A lot has changed since then but we need to be mindful that the same applies to what is considered an acceptable computer.

    Quote:

    And while whatever it will be people will consider it the newton 2.0, Steve will consider it version 1.0 of whatever the final product will be.



    No I think it will simply be marketed as a large iPod Touch. It is the best way for Apple to get a new concept to the masses.



    Dave
  • Reply 39 of 106
    olternautolternaut Posts: 1,376member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IQ78 View Post


    Folks, Apple's timing and plans have been simply brilliant since the 2nd coming of Steve.



    Their moves into the music industry were amazing. Their move into retail were spectacular. Their move into the minds of the "switcher" have been very well done, especially with the switch to intel. Their move into the cell phone world is a Trojan for establishing themselves in the mobile market. I think they've made some early mistakes in the movie industry. They should have attacked the rental business earlier, and I'm not sure how well their aTV will go. Personally I'm digging Netflix's Instant View. I would kill my cable completely if aTV would offer a $25/month subsription service to a huge movie+TVshow instant view database, like Netflix currently is offering. But I'm getting sidetracked.



    I believe Apple will has enough critical mass in the iPhone+iTouch world to build a software eco-system with the SDK they just released. Once this is established, it will quickly make OSXmobile the mobile platform (much like iPod is the platform music players) If Apple can get a critical mass of developers for OSXmobile as an open platform it will increase the success of any mobile device released by Apple by an order of magnitude more than a device released into a developer vacuum. At that point Apple may even allow other devices to use OSXmobile, which will bring that many more switchers to OSX in the PC world. They really have an oppertunity to PHUK microsoft in a big way.



    So, in summary, I say they won't release a new device until they see a critical mass of great applications for the iPhone and iTouch. Once a software eco-system has been established on the iPhone+iTouch, then the new device will be backwards compatible + have new features and use OSXmobile. They then might allow other companies to use OSXmobile on their own smart phones, while Apple works on turning the world into a OSX world instead of Windows world, since the new world will be mobile. We will see.



    Ok, I will agree with that. But because Apple is not going to release a new type of device yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist. As you say its all about the timing. And I say that he will debut such a device this year...probably late this year. Come June when the firmware 2.0 hits there will be hundreds if not thousands of apps ready to launch at the WWDC 08. There is your critical mass. Very more than likely it will be the time when the 3g iphone hits. It would be nice if the mystery device also debuts (a "one more thing"?).

    But it could be that it will debut afterwards at perhaps a september ipod event?

    We will soon find out.
  • Reply 40 of 106
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    When the 2nd generation chips come out, and will have two cores, it might be possible.



    Except for the issue of the ATOM processor sucking with respect to what is already in the AIR. ATOM is interesting but lets face it it is not the equivalent of a desktop nor laptop processor.



    For some the performance loss might not matter. Especially if an AIR variant could be had that doubles battery life time.



    Dave
Sign In or Register to comment.