Apple leaves would-be iPhone developers hanging for the moment

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 134
    dave k.dave k. Posts: 1,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ravelgrane View Post


    Oh god. Will you PLEASE stop linking stock price to Apple's actions? Honestly, if all care about is stock performance, go invest in China or something. There is virtually no correlation between Apple's day-to-day actions and its stock price.



    Except for right before/after MacWorld.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ravelgrane View Post


    The only reason it fell is because the economy in general is tanking due to mortgage foreclosures and inflation from oil prices. The only reason it did well in the first place was that Joe Dipwad heard something about iPods doing well and went on eTrade to get a piece of that; he doesn't know anything or care about developer relationships.



    Microsoft's, Intel's, etc., stock didn't drop like Apple's.
  • Reply 82 of 134
    That's just how iTards behave!
  • Reply 83 of 134
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,167member
    I was under the impression that Apple will only accept enterprise application to test their network settings and custom made applications on the iPhone. I don't think Apple will give access to anyone yet because they really don't want to see their iPhone 2.0 software being distributed via torrent just like Leopard Beta.



    I don't see why everyone is rushing, still long way until Jun. In my opinion Apple released this Beta SDK to meet the deadline and familiarize developers with the SDK, specially those who never used xcode, before the actual release of the App Store service.
  • Reply 84 of 134
    knightlieknightlie Posts: 282member
    Quote:

    "Suppose iFund will wanna float any money my way now that apple has ditched me? I doubt it. Ah? thanks Apple."



    Sounds like whining to me, another case of "Apple won't do what I want them to." Apple haven't "ditched" him, they've just not chosen him for the beta-test programme - he'll be able to use the SDK like everyone else when it's released.



    It's not our business how Apple chooses it's beta-testers, and this isn't the first beta-test in history to be limited - I've applied for several in recent years and never received a reply from any of them.
  • Reply 85 of 134
    abster2coreabster2core Posts: 2,501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post


    Worry more about the fact that Jobs is a liar. That will get Apple into more trouble than being perceived rude.



    Perhaps you should look up the words "liar, slander and libel."



    I challenge you to support your accusation. Not with hearsay, not what you think you know or not what you would only say behind his back, but what you would say to his face, and with substantiated proof. Either that, or just shut up.



    cc: moderator
  • Reply 86 of 134
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,333member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    I think what you, and other non-developers are missing is the fact that many programs will not run on the Simulator.



    For a simplistic (but telling) example:



    Apple furnishes 27 SDK Sample Programs-- of these:



    30% will not run on the Simulator

    22% will not compile and deploy to the Simulator

    3% Require missing SDK Libraries



    This means that a developer who writes an app that uses anything that is not supported on the Simulator has no place to go.



    Changing the piano analog a bit, Apple is telling these Developers:



    "You can play the piano, but you can't use the black keys".



    or



    "You can write music, but you can't use sharps or flats".



    My issue is more with the Simulator than with lack of real-device support.



    The Simulator is good, no very good, for the things that it does. But, there are missing pieces. Apple should implement the missing pieces so that it can deploy and run any program written for the platform. Then, Apple should add Tools to simulate external events-- such things as: Accelerometer movement; Location change; Dropping/Changing Cell or WiFi access points; receiving a Phone Call.



    There are many advantages to using a Simulator over a real device. I, for one, would be perfectly content to use a full-featured Simulator until the real-device support arrives. And I hope that Apple will continue to support and expand the Simulator as new devices are announced.



    You make incorrect assumptions. do you know if any of that will work if you had access to ver 2 of the software?



    No.
  • Reply 87 of 134
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,333member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post


    http://developer.symbian.com/



    70+% of the smartphone market. You'd be stupid not to.



    Hmm. Last time this was brought up, it was 80+%. Interesting trend.



    Besides, Symbian is too limited. Even Nokia is moving to Linux for its more sophisticated systems.
  • Reply 88 of 134
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,333member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post


    Please spare me....



    When the best way for Apple users to know what future products Apple is working on is to listen to what Apple's CEO officially state what they aren't working on, there lies a potential problem with trust...



    No problem with trust.



    Just some people being a bit naive about the way misdirection works in business.
  • Reply 89 of 134
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,333member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post




    Microsoft's, Intel's, etc., stock didn't drop like Apple's.



    That's because those companies are much less tied to consumer sales. Both have sales that will continue to rely on government an large business, both of which don't change their plans as much during a recession as consumers do.
  • Reply 90 of 134
    dave k.dave k. Posts: 1,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No problem with trust.



    Just some people being a bit naive about the way misdirection works in business.



    Can you elaborate? What do you mean by misdirection?
  • Reply 91 of 134
    dave k.dave k. Posts: 1,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    That's because those companies are much less tied to consumer sales. Both have sales that will continue to rely on government an large business, both of which don't change their plans as much during a recession as consumers do.



    True. I didn't think of that...
  • Reply 92 of 134
    dave k.dave k. Posts: 1,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    Perhaps you should look up the words "liar, slander and libel."



    I challenge you to support your accusation. Not with hearsay, not what you think you know or not what you would only say behind his back, but what you would say to his face, and with substantiated proof. Either that, or just shut up.



    cc: moderator



    I shut up. I worded my original response badly.
  • Reply 93 of 134
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,333member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post


    Can you elaborate? What do you mean by misdirection?



    Consumer companies in particular are dependent on a very fickle potential clientele. Whereas business and government buyers know what they need, and will pursue their plans for years, the consumer will change plans in an instant if something cooler, or cheaper, or prettier shows up at the last moment.



    New ideas are also hard to come by, as are better implementations of current ones.



    Often consumer companies that telegraph their intentions are caught up short by their competitors who can come to market with a copy before their own product comes out. This is more true today than ever in the past, as Asian companies come out with knockoffs rapidly.



    Jobs attempts to get around all the speculation about Apple's plans by misdirecting those who try to anticipate them. Unfortunately, Apple has become the most watched consumer company of all time. Every day, pundits are speculating about any new products Apple may come out with. This continues here, on the rumors sites.



    By attempting to mislead other companies as to the direction Apple is going in, he hopes to gain a few precious months.



    Remember the surprise engendered by the necessity of announcing the iPhone six months in advance? There was shock. There was also speculation that it would give competitors too much of a leg up. Fortunately, the OX is at the heart of the system, and that can't be duplicated so easily by others, though they have tried to copy the physical product.



    So, jobs says that people aren't interested in portable video players. He gives good reasons. He shows that they don't work well. That there isn't a good business model around for their profitability. He points out that they aren't selling. All of which is true. Then he says that Apple isn't interested.



    A year or so later, he comes out with a much better product than the competition, with a much better business model, and the products sell.



    Misdirection. And it hasn't hurt anyone except Apple's competitors. The advantage is to the consumers.
  • Reply 94 of 134
    lundylundy Posts: 4,466member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post


    I shut up. I worded my original response badly.



    MODERATOR NOTE:



    To clarify, personal insults/attacks on non-AI-members, such as Mr. Jobs, are in general allowed as long as they are not excessive or gratuitous.



    I point this out to emphasize that the same attack/name-calling directed at posters/members in the thread or elsewhere on this site is absolutely forbidden and will not be tolerated.



    Translation: call Jobs a liar, call Nixon a liar, call Michael Dell an asshole, but do not call any of the posters here a liar. Or any other derogatory term.
  • Reply 95 of 134
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    You make incorrect assumptions. do you know if any of that will work if you had access to ver 2 of the software?



    No.



    Exactly! You make my point! The Simulator is supposed to fill the void until the version 2 software (ability to test on the real devices) is generally available-- allowing the "unaccepted developers" to begin writing and testing code, now, on the simulator; and later, on the device, when the ver 2 (or 1.2 beta) software becomes available.



    To better understand, I suggest that you:



    1) Register for the SDK so you have access to the following (not the same as applying for acceptance)

    2) Download and install the SDK

    3) Download and view the 10 SDK videos.

    4) Review the online documentation

    5) Download the Sample Programs

    6) Try to Build and Run all 27 Sample Programs-- to familiarize yourself with XCode differences for the iPhone, the Simulator, see examples of working programs and examine the code (invaluable for learning, IMO)

    7) Create/build/run/examine a new app using the Cocoa Touch "List" template (no coding required)

    8) Create/build/run/examine a new app using the Cocoa Touch "Toolbar" template (no coding required)

    9) Create/build/run/examine a simple new app, from scratch, using the Cocoa Touch "Application" template-- here, you will need to write code for the app and for the UI components (Interface Builder is not yet available for the SDK)



    Finally, after many hours, you are ready to start coding some apps that take advantage of the neat features that make the iPhone unique.



    You can't! The Simulator doesn't support them!



    Worse, because of the Widget-like structure of iPhone apps (everything in your face), you can't even partially-test your app (avoiding testing of not-yet-supported features). XCode iPhone won't compile the app, or the Simulator won't load it!



    About the only thing you can do is break the app into pieces so can test the UI navigation with an empty screen/stage for the app to do its thing... ...useful... eh, maybe.... ...but not very productive.



    So, after all your time spent reading docs, reviewing videos, dissecting program examples, etc. you have all this pent up "new knowledge" and the compelling desire to put it to use. But you really can't... ...you're left with scraps. Disappointed! Frustrated!



    Apple went to a lot of effort and expense to encourage (court) prospective iPhone developers... There are doubts that "disappointed and frustrated" is the mindset they were shooting for!



    Again, my issues are mostly with the Simulator deficiencies and the missing Interface Builder piece. They have nothing to do with availability of the 1.2 beta of the 2.0 iPhone software.
  • Reply 96 of 134
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,333member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    Exactly! You make my point! The Simulator is supposed to fill the void until the version 2 software (ability to test on the real devices) is generally available-- allowing the "unaccepted developers" to begin writing and testing code, now, on the simulator; and later, on the device, when the ver 2 (or 1.2 beta) software becomes available.



    To better understand, I suggest that you:



    1) Register for the SDK so you have access to the following (not the same as applying for acceptance)

    2) Download and install the SDK

    3) Download and view the 10 SDK videos.

    4) Review the online documentation

    5) Download the Sample Programs

    6) Try to Build and Run all 27 Sample Programs-- to familiarize yourself with XCode differences for the iPhone, the Simulator, see examples of working programs and examine the code (invaluable for learning, IMO)

    7) Create/build/run/examine a new app using the Cocoa Touch "List" template (no coding required)

    8) Create/build/run/examine a new app using the Cocoa Touch "Toolbar" template (no coding required)

    9) Create/build/run/examine a simple new app, from scratch, using the Cocoa Touch "Application" template-- here, you will need to write code for the app and for the UI components (Interface Builder is not yet available for the SDK)



    Finally, after many hours, you are ready to start coding some apps that take advantage of the neat features that make the iPhone unique.



    You can't! The Simulator doesn't support them!



    Worse, because of the Widget-like structure of iPhone apps (everything in your face), you can't even partially-test your app (avoiding testing of not-yet-supported features). XCode iPhone won't compile the app, or the Simulator won't load it!



    About the only thing you can do is break the app into pieces so can test the UI navigation with an empty screen/stage for the app to do its thing... ...useful... eh, maybe.... ...but not very productive.



    So, after all your time spent reading docs, reviewing videos, dissecting program examples, etc. you have all this pent up "new knowledge" and the compelling desire to put it to use. But you really can't... ...you're left with scraps. Disappointed! Frustrated!



    Apple went to a lot of effort and expense to encourage (court) prospective iPhone developers... There are doubts that "disappointed and frustrated" is the mindset they were shooting for!



    Again, my issues are mostly with the Simulator deficiencies and the missing Interface Builder piece. They have nothing to do with availability of the 1.2 beta of the 2.0 iPhone software.



    I haven't coded for almost 10 years, so whether I want to bother with that is something I haven't decided yet.



    I just find it interesting that reports from developers in general don't seem to have mentioned all of your problems. Unless you're saying that all of them have somehow been accepted by Apple.



    The pieces that are missing for you are likely missing for everyone, even those they have accepted. The only difference is the ver 2.0 software.



    Even so, I don't think it to be a problem. Apple will start accepting more requests, and everyone will be happy..
  • Reply 97 of 134
    normmnormm Posts: 653member
    I sent a note to Steve Jobs public email address asking about when we can expect to get certificates. I got back a reply within a few hours:



    Quote:

    We are in a beta period now. Only a limited number of developers will get certificates now (we just can't support all of the requests we've received). Almost every developer will get a certificate when we ship in June.



    Steve



  • Reply 98 of 134
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    It is a beta, because Apple says it is a beta, And Apple is an honorable company!



    I, too have participated in betas-- some 40 years ago to present, most recently with Macromedia then Adobe.



    But, they have been closed betas-- invitation only or pre-approval before you get the SDK, then massive support, discussion forums, etc. after you get the beta,



    This, is a semi-public beta-- available to all comers with a simple signup... nobody can't download the SDK.



    Is this a good beta-- a good move on Apple's part?



    Obviously it is not either/or. There is an open beta segment that allows any dev access to part of the SDK using the simulator.



    Then there is the closed beta (the topic of the letter) to which fuller access is given.



    Quote:

    My answer has to be: This is not good!



    -- it will tarnish Apple in the eyes of potential developers looking at Apple as a development platform for the first time... Is that all there is? I can get the same treatment from _________________ (you fill in the blank)



    LOL. Riiight. Let's compare and contrast with the MS Surface SDK non-Beta.



    Dick, buy a clue. If you were a Tier 1 dev you'd be in the closed beta. You aren't. Deal. There isn't likely a single important Apple partner that couldn't get into the closed portion if they wanted to by making a phone call.



    At least you HAVE a SDK and simulator to play with. And of the missing features, you can spend your time getting proficient with the SDK and platform access you have until you get into closed beta.
  • Reply 99 of 134
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Obviously it is not either/or. There is an open beta segment that allows any dev access to part of the SDK using the simulator.



    Then there is the closed beta (the topic of the letter) to which fuller access is given.







    LOL. Riiight. Let's compare and contrast with the MS Surface SDK non-Beta.



    Dick, buy a clue. If you were a Tier 1 dev you'd be in the closed beta. You aren't. Deal. There isn't likely a single important Apple partner that couldn't get into the closed portion if they wanted to by making a phone call.



    At least you HAVE a SDK and simulator to play with. And of the missing features, you can spend your time getting proficient with the SDK and platform access you have until you get into closed beta.



    In fact, I am "Deal"ing... You are correct, that we, Tier n developers, have the SDK and Simulator to play with.



    However, as one who has spent many hours with the SDK-- I think that my opinions, based on actual experience, should be given equal credence with those who merely pontificate on how good/bad the SDK is, after watching a preso and reading a few articles.



    With all due respect!
  • Reply 100 of 134
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,333member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    In fact, I am "Deal"ing... You are correct, that we, Tier n developers, have the SDK and Simulator to play with.



    However, as one who has spent many hours with the SDK-- I think that my opinions, based on actual experience, should be given equal credence with those who merely pontificate on how good/bad the SDK is, after watching a preso and reading a few articles.



    With all due respect!



    With all due respect, you still haven't shown any differences between what you received, and what registered developers have received, other than the beta ver 2 software.
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