[quote] I reckon having things like this on the Mac OS X page is pushing a product too long before it's ready... <hr></blockquote>
True... however, this is a rumors board so people here usually *want* the dirt on upcoming projects. We all bemoan Apple's uptight security about announcing future products... now, suddenly because it's coming from Apple and not from Spymac we're complaining?!
I apologize for the , it's the first I've ever given, but really...don't you come here to find out about stuff that's not been released yet?
I'm not too happy with the finder search. I would much rather it be a slide out from the toolbar or something. the search field will get cut off at times and takes up a lot of room there. if it could just slide out of the toolbar into the main window I think it would be much better. they could also have some advanced options as well doing it that way
<strong>I don't care what you say -- there is NO EXCUSE for the only alternative to anti-aliasing being, looking at fonts that run together and look like garbage. The concept of "WYSIWYG" is completely irrelevant to this discussion; we're talking about screen display fonts here for use in displaying lists of items in my newsreader, MT-NewsWatcher 3.2 for instance, or for display in the "Toolbar Favorites" section of the Explorer browser window. Right now, if you are using Explorer, go and turn off antialiasing and load up explorer. Look at your toolbar favoirtes. In mine, there is "Google." Except the "l" and the "e" are literally touching each other. This is bad rendering. It should not happen. There is no argument to be had here; there is no possible way you can convince me that Apple is right to have an inferior font rendering model "just because it is OS X." You can't blame it on Microsoft, either; the same thing happens if you open Apple's own Preferences panel and look at the ugliness of the non-antialiased text in the favorites bar.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually you can blame it on Microsoft, a build of IE installed via software update installed corupted Helvetica/Geneva fonts a while back...MS supposedly put a fix up somwhere but I've yet to see it.
<strong>I hear a lot of people complaining that labels have not been introduced as one of Jaguar's new features. A while back Apple hired the guy who created BFS. I think that Apple didn't include labels in Jaguar because they are working on something better. </strong><hr></blockquote>
hate to break it to ya, but if you check out this image, it looks as though labels (and about a zillion other features) are coming back to jaguar...
(you can see the labels preference in the views palette)
btw, we rag on them a lot, but kudos to spymac for getting the most comprehensive set of photos from wwdc on the net first. i am drooling with every slow-loading screenshot (btw, my idea, yes MY idea of badging the minimized windows with icons of the parent application made it into jaguar!!! woo-hoo!!! i feel like i should be in an easter egg somewhere when it ships!!!)
Applenut, I think you're right on the Finder search tool. However, I also think Apple will implement your ideas, and if they don't, well, Feedback. Maybe we should preemptively complain?
One feature heard of, and am shocked and apalled at Apple for not mentioning, is the friggin Energy Saver Preference Panel. WTF? Why can't I tell the screen to dim after a minute!? This better make it in 10.2. There is no reason not to have it. Other than that, 10.2, hubba hubba! If iBooks can use Quartz Extreme, I will definitely have to pinch myself. Other than Labels and a few other things, which will require a -major- overhaul of the system (10.5? 11?) and journaling in the file system, FreeBSD 5, etc, 10.2 does indeed fulfill the promise of 10.1.
<strong>I'm not too happy with the finder search. I would much rather it be a slide out from the toolbar or something. the search field will get cut off at times and takes up a lot of room there. if it could just slide out of the toolbar into the main window I think it would be much better. they could also have some advanced options as well doing it that way</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree completely with that. Actually, I would much prefer to have a small (but very fast) search window, like in system 7, as an alternative to the Sherlock application.
By the way, do you know how this search field is supposed to work ? What are its uses ?
On another subject :
I'm still pissed to see OS X so slow on powerfull machines (PPC), while NeXT-STEP was running nicely on the old 68040 processors, with full postscript display. Too much fancy effects in Quartz.
I'm still pissed to see OS X so slow on powerfull machines (PPC), while NeXT-STEP was running nicely on the old 68040 processors, with full postscript display. Too much fancy effects in Quartz.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's amazing what happens to performance when your window buffer sizes increase by a factor of 32.
You could get a lot of that speed back by hacking OS X to run in black and white, but then you'd lose something.
<strong>hate to break it to ya, but if you check out this image, it looks as though labels (and about a zillion other features) are coming back to jaguar...
Hey, in that case, let us know how Quartz Extreme works if you're running it on a Mac that meets the requirements. Also, I'd love to know if Mail lets you connect to Exchange servers (i.e. connection options other than POP or IMAP).
<strong>What saddens me is that once again Apple is selling us a product that won't be available for five months. That's fine for developers and investors, but a crappy way to treat customers.</strong><hr></blockquote>
WTF ? This was a developer conference. Covered by an NDA. Apple isn't selling you anything - if you choose to investigate it, then the knowledge that you discover is yours to deal with.
Minimized windows can be dragged off the Dock, but it seems rather pointless. I expect later Big Things? may come from this. You can't "toss" these miniwindows like in older builds. You can drag one back into the Dock, but the Dock has to the shown (it won't bring up the Dock if autohide is set).
<strong>Nice touch from Apple with the folders "opening", and zooming out. Is that a feature when you open the window normally?</strong><hr></blockquote>Yes, it happens all the time. Show Info windows zoom out also. It's not nearly as obtrusive as you might think it is and there's no delay at all before it starts zooming.
<strong>I hear a lot of people complaining that labels have not been introduced as one of Jaguar's new features. A while back Apple hired the guy who created BFS. I think that Apple didn't include labels in Jaguar because they are working on something better. It doesn't look like a new file system will be implemented for Jaguar, but I think we will see a new FS in the next major release of OS X after Jaguar. I think that the new FS will include superior metadata handling and will blow labels out of the water.
If this is the case, then it makes sense for Apple not to bring labels in Jaguar as a hacked on feature, but to wait for the new FS and full metadata support.
Apple's listening to your concerns and tackling the issues one at a time. The question is not 'if' labels will be included, but 'when' will labels be included. Mac OS 8.1 brought us HFS+, so I wonder if Apple would be bold enough to introduce a new filesystem between Jaguar and the next major release after that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
For me the whole point of labels was simply to have a visual aid as to which documents and files I had to do, were done, etc etc etc. Thats it. I dont need something that will blow me away. I just want a stupid 'colored layer' on top of normal icons. I dont care if the info is not kept on an individual file level... grrr.
Comments
<strong>What product? Jaguar isn't selling.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I reckon having things like this on the Mac OS X page is pushing a product too long before it's ready:
True... however, this is a rumors board so people here usually *want* the dirt on upcoming projects. We all bemoan Apple's uptight security about announcing future products... now, suddenly because it's coming from Apple and not from Spymac we're complaining?!
I apologize for the
rr.
Well, Apple are in the business of making money.
Hype. Antici-pation. Putting users through 'can't wait hell'.
It's fair game, Belle.
I find it hard to believe you'd expect any less of Apple...
Lemon Bon Bon
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
<strong>
I reckon having things like this on the Mac OS X page is pushing a product too long before it's ready:</strong><hr></blockquote>
You should be glad you're not into movies
<strong>I don't care what you say -- there is NO EXCUSE for the only alternative to anti-aliasing being, looking at fonts that run together and look like garbage. The concept of "WYSIWYG" is completely irrelevant to this discussion; we're talking about screen display fonts here for use in displaying lists of items in my newsreader, MT-NewsWatcher 3.2 for instance, or for display in the "Toolbar Favorites" section of the Explorer browser window. Right now, if you are using Explorer, go and turn off antialiasing and load up explorer. Look at your toolbar favoirtes. In mine, there is "Google." Except the "l" and the "e" are literally touching each other. This is bad rendering. It should not happen. There is no argument to be had here; there is no possible way you can convince me that Apple is right to have an inferior font rendering model "just because it is OS X." You can't blame it on Microsoft, either; the same thing happens if you open Apple's own Preferences panel and look at the ugliness of the non-antialiased text in the favorites bar.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually you can blame it on Microsoft, a build of IE installed via software update installed corupted Helvetica/Geneva fonts a while back...MS supposedly put a fix up somwhere but I've yet to see it.
<strong>I hear a lot of people complaining that labels have not been introduced as one of Jaguar's new features. A while back Apple hired the guy who created BFS. I think that Apple didn't include labels in Jaguar because they are working on something better. </strong><hr></blockquote>
hate to break it to ya, but if you check out this image, it looks as though labels (and about a zillion other features) are coming back to jaguar...
<a href="http://www.spymac.com/cgi-bin/pictures/index.pl?photo=705&size=big"; target="_blank">http://www.spymac.com/cgi-bin/pictures/index.pl?photo=705&size=big</a>;
(you can see the labels preference in the views palette)
btw, we rag on them a lot, but kudos to spymac for getting the most comprehensive set of photos from wwdc on the net first. i am drooling with every slow-loading screenshot (btw, my idea, yes MY idea of badging the minimized windows with icons of the parent application made it into jaguar!!! woo-hoo!!! i feel like i should be in an easter egg somewhere when it ships!!!)
One feature heard of, and am shocked and apalled at Apple for not mentioning, is the friggin Energy Saver Preference Panel. WTF? Why can't I tell the screen to dim after a minute!? This better make it in 10.2. There is no reason not to have it. Other than that, 10.2, hubba hubba! If iBooks can use Quartz Extreme, I will definitely have to pinch myself. Other than Labels and a few other things, which will require a -major- overhaul of the system (10.5? 11?) and journaling in the file system, FreeBSD 5, etc, 10.2 does indeed fulfill the promise of 10.1.
<strong>I'm not too happy with the finder search. I would much rather it be a slide out from the toolbar or something. the search field will get cut off at times and takes up a lot of room there. if it could just slide out of the toolbar into the main window I think it would be much better. they could also have some advanced options as well doing it that way</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree completely with that. Actually, I would much prefer to have a small (but very fast) search window, like in system 7, as an alternative to the Sherlock application.
By the way, do you know how this search field is supposed to work ? What are its uses ?
On another subject :
I'm still pissed to see OS X so slow on powerfull machines (PPC), while NeXT-STEP was running nicely on the old 68040 processors, with full postscript display. Too much fancy effects in Quartz.
<strong>
I'm still pissed to see OS X so slow on powerfull machines (PPC), while NeXT-STEP was running nicely on the old 68040 processors, with full postscript display. Too much fancy effects in Quartz.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's amazing what happens to performance when your window buffer sizes increase by a factor of 32.
You could get a lot of that speed back by hacking OS X to run in black and white, but then you'd lose something.
<strong>
It's amazing what happens to performance when your window buffer sizes increase by a factor of 32.
You could get a lot of that speed back by hacking OS X to run in black and white, but then you'd lose something.
Just because of that, I set my powerbook to 256 colors just to see if I could. Didn't seem that much faster...
<strong>hate to break it to ya, but if you check out this image, it looks as though labels (and about a zillion other features) are coming back to jaguar...
<a href="http://www.spymac.com/cgi-bin/pictures/index.pl?photo=705&size=big"; target="_blank">http://www.spymac.com/cgi-bin/pictures/index.pl?photo=705&size=big</a>;
(you can see the labels preference in the views palette)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bzzzt! Wrong!
That radio button is for the location of the icon labels (the name). Switch it to the side and the name is written to the right of the icons.
I'm about to install 10.2 in about 5 minutes and will gladly answer any questions you have (except for how and where I got it).
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/movies/Jag-slf.mov"; target="_blank">Spring Loaded Folders!!!!</a>
btw, Snapz doesn't capture the cursor correctly in videos. That's why it looks strange. It will actually look like this with the new slight shadow:
[quote] (i.e. connection options other than POP or IMAP)<hr></blockquote>nope, just iTools, POP, and IMAP.
[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]
[ 06-15-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
<strong>What saddens me is that once again Apple is selling us a product that won't be available for five months. That's fine for developers and investors, but a crappy way to treat customers.</strong><hr></blockquote>
WTF ? This was a developer conference. Covered by an NDA. Apple isn't selling you anything - if you choose to investigate it, then the knowledge that you discover is yours to deal with.
So deal with it !
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-preview2.jpg"; target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-preview2.jpg</a>;
<strong>First, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you....
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/movies/slf.mov"; target="_blank">Spring Loaded Folders!!!!</a>
btw, Snapz doesn't capture the cursor correctly in videos. That's why it looks strange. It will actually look like this with the new slight shadow:
nope, just iTools, POP, and IMAP.
[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for the vid, starfleet!
Nice touch from Apple with the folders "opening", and zooming out. Is that a feature when you open the window normally?
low-fi
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-multiple-info-windows.jpg"; target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-multiple-info-windows.jpg</a>;
Also, the Terminal.app has changed quite a bit. No need for TinkerTool here!
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-terminal-color-settings.jpg"; target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-terminal-color-settings.jpg</a>;
Also, the "new" Sherlock isn't included, but it is clear that you won't be using Sherlock to find files on your drive anymore -- thank god!
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-find.jpg"; target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-find.jpg</a>;
Minimized windows can be dragged off the Dock, but it seems rather pointless. I expect later Big Things? may come from this. You can't "toss" these miniwindows like in older builds. You can drag one back into the Dock, but the Dock has to the shown (it won't bring up the Dock if autohide is set).
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-miniwindows.jpg"; target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-miniwindows.jpg</a>;
More Classic info!
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-classic-mem.jpg"; target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-classic-mem.jpg</a>;
A different map and selection method for time zones. Hmm. I think I liked the old way better.
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-datentime.jpg"; target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-datentime.jpg</a>;
[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
<strong>Nice touch from Apple with the folders "opening", and zooming out. Is that a feature when you open the window normally?</strong><hr></blockquote>Yes, it happens all the time. Show Info windows zoom out also. It's not nearly as obtrusive as you might think it is and there's no delay at all before it starts zooming.
It's very nice.
[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
<strong>I hear a lot of people complaining that labels have not been introduced as one of Jaguar's new features. A while back Apple hired the guy who created BFS. I think that Apple didn't include labels in Jaguar because they are working on something better. It doesn't look like a new file system will be implemented for Jaguar, but I think we will see a new FS in the next major release of OS X after Jaguar. I think that the new FS will include superior metadata handling and will blow labels out of the water.
If this is the case, then it makes sense for Apple not to bring labels in Jaguar as a hacked on feature, but to wait for the new FS and full metadata support.
Apple's listening to your concerns and tackling the issues one at a time. The question is not 'if' labels will be included, but 'when' will labels be included. Mac OS 8.1 brought us HFS+, so I wonder if Apple would be bold enough to introduce a new filesystem between Jaguar and the next major release after that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
For me the whole point of labels was simply to have a visual aid as to which documents and files I had to do, were done, etc etc etc. Thats it. I dont need something that will blow me away. I just want a stupid 'colored layer' on top of normal icons. I dont care if the info is not kept on an individual file level... grrr.
In any case, I'll give SNAX a try I guess :-/