<strong>WTF ? This was a developer conference. Covered by an NDA. Apple isn't selling you anything - if you choose to investigate it, then the knowledge that you discover is yours to deal with.
So deal with it !</strong><hr></blockquote>
This was the point that many people made before the keynote. However, if you look at the last post I made, and on Apple's <a href="http://www.apple.com/macosx/"; target="_blank">Mac OS X</a> page, you'll see big fat references to Jaguar.
If this is for developers only, why is it all over the consumer site, and why were press packs sent out to publications completely unrelated to developers?
BuonRotto, i think it bugs me for a couple of reasons. Firstly, as I say, it should really be directed at developers, not consumers.
Secondly, it's a change in policy at Apple that has come since its big makeover. If I remember correctly, OS 9 shipped around two weeks after it was announced, not five months.
Thirdly, this new policy of announcing products long before they're ready is a dark road to head down. Remember how upset people were when faster G4s weren't shipping in numbers for months? And how annoyed people were that the LCD iMacs were taking so long to appear?
It's also ominous in a business sense. Current products aren't enough to push the company's value, so they're using products that won't be on sale for several months. It's just one step away from accusations of vaporware.
Also, if this was purely for developers, why is the coverage offered by Apple about such superficial "improvements" as iChat, the Address Book, and Sherlock 3? Mention of a multi-threaded Finder, something we should have had last year, is relegated to a little paragraph at the bottom of the page.
Hmm, ya know I was really starting to like having one window for "Get Info". Is there any option to keep it as it was (is now)?
[quote]
Minimized windows can be dragged off the Dock, but it seems rather pointless. I expect later Big Things? may come from this. You can't "toss" these miniwindows like in older builds. You can drag one back into the Dock, but the Dock has to the shown (it won't bring up the Dock if autohide is set).
<hr></blockquote>
Hmm... this is an odd feature <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> I don't really understand what its supposed to do. Is it just to have minimized windows outside of the dock? Sort of like a shortcut to a folder/window?
[quote]
More Classic info!
<hr></blockquote>
People still use Classic? Heck, I havent had to use an OS 9 app in months! I doubt I'll ever have to again by the time Shaguar comes out.
[quote]
A different map and selection method for time zones. Hmm. I think I liked the old way better.
<hr></blockquote>
Eep! Are we going back to MacOS 7!!! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> What was that secret location in the OS 7 map control panel again? Was an easter egg. Would be fun to see if its there too.
BTW, whats withe "Label" settings? Left, Right? Can ya get a pic of that?
Can you take a pic of the contextual menu on various items (a jpd, txt, folder, on the desktop, on an app, etc?) Is it 'smarter'?
Also, if you are on a mixed network, can you see if/how well SMB browsing is? Like Dave?
[quote]Eep! Are we going back to MacOS 7!!! What was that secret location in the OS 7 map control panel again? Was an easter egg. Would be fun to see if its there too.<hr></blockquote>Middle Of Nowhere.
And it's not here.
[quote]BTW, whats withe "Label" settings? Left, Right? Can ya get a pic of that?<hr></blockquote>That's just to determine if the icon name will be under or to the right of it. Nothing spectacular.
[quote]Can you take a pic of the contextual menu on various items (a jpd, txt, folder, on the desktop, on an app, etc?) Is it 'smarter'?
Also, if you are on a mixed network, can you see if/how well SMB browsing is? Like Dave?
Any new power settings (Energy Saver)?<hr></blockquote>I'm not sure if it's smarter -- seems to be exactly the same as what's in the Show Info windows. I'm just at home on PPPoE DSL; so, I have no fancy network tests. Energy Saver has no new options except hard disk sleep was changed from a slider to a checkbox.
Here's the context shot:
Odd that it lists PS7 as a classic app (it's actually the OSX version).
Also worth noting:
The context menu on the desktop has "Change Desktop Background..." like OS9 had (well, and Windows too).
Does anyone know if the one single most annoying workflow masher when using X in non-US English-speaking countries has been fixed in the Jag?
[Paper size defaults cannot be set to A4 in an English installation, but default to US Letter, thus soundly shagging UK, Aus, and anyone outside US (like France) with an English OS]
This is a serious impediment to this OS, as you have to go to Page Setup EVERY TIME YOU WANT TO PRINT A PAGE.
Paper size defaults cannot be set to A4 in an English installation, but default to US Letter, thus soundly shagging UK, Aus, and anyone outside US (like France) with an English OS<hr></blockquote>I've tried all sorts of things and can't get it off the default US Letter.
Also, more shots that were requested by MacNN'ers:
it seems they're using the small drop down menu ala OmniWeb throughout the system now, instead of the large dropdown menus we have now. Could you check on that?
How fast is the dock menu for large docked folders, say 100 items+?
Could you strip the extension off a .sit file and remove its file type info (by uloading to a ftp and getting it back, or by other means) and try the 'open with" cmm on it to see if does a bit of header parsing magic?
<strong>Thirdly, this new policy of announcing products long before they're ready is a dark road to head down. Remember how upset people were when faster G4s weren't shipping in numbers for months? And how annoyed people were that the LCD iMacs were taking so long to appear?</strong><hr></blockquote>
You can't compare that. They are announcing Jaguar as being released in about four months, but they told people that they could buy the iMac the same day and delivered in a couple of weeks, but it was delayed.
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>It's also ominous in a business sense. Current products aren't enough to push the company's value, so they're using products that won't be on sale for several months. It's just one step away from accusations of vaporware.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, blame the Internet. Apple have been very good at keeping Jaguar a secret, but at soome time the developers had to know about it, and you know that a few houors after the developers get their hands on new software you can find at your local Carracho server.
By announcing it a few hours before Joe Schmoe installs it, there is still an element of surprise, and it is a lot more exciting to read/see a product presentation, when you don't know everything that's being presented.
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>Also, if this was purely for developers, why is the coverage offered by Apple about such superficial "improvements" as iChat, the Address Book, and Sherlock 3?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Because developers can make products that interact with those "superficial improvements".
<strong>Odd that it lists PS7 as a classic app (it's actually the OSX version).
</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you look at Photoshop's bundle you'll find two Photoshop apps in it. One Carbon app for Mac OS X (and Mac OS X only) and a Classic app (which is not Carbon).
Simple Question: Can you drag a file into a subfolder of a folder on the dock. That is, does spring loaded folders work on the dock also?
Thank you
Oh, and can you adjust that huge grid size in the finder that Apple seems to like so much? Maybe I shouldn't complain; they did let us change our font size. I mean, the grid size adjustment alogrithm must be lost in OS 9's coffin or something.
Adding features to the finder must be difficult. It seems much easier to work on Quartz Extreme and have 3d objects floating on your desktop reflecting what's on your screen (not that i'm complaining about that )
JLL, you're on the money. I / Starfleet can hack the OS, but I'd rather bloody not. This one smells of that PPP bug that didn't exist as as Apple were concerned. I have an entirely unsubstantiable feeling that Apple don't give a shoit about this, although it directly impacts usability of the OS to their core market overseas.
I mean, as an admin, am I supposed to go around to all 40 machines in a facility and run a foggin shareware hack so that workflow isn't impaired?
Comments
<strong>WTF ? This was a developer conference. Covered by an NDA. Apple isn't selling you anything - if you choose to investigate it, then the knowledge that you discover is yours to deal with.
So deal with it !</strong><hr></blockquote>
This was the point that many people made before the keynote. However, if you look at the last post I made, and on Apple's <a href="http://www.apple.com/macosx/"; target="_blank">Mac OS X</a> page, you'll see big fat references to Jaguar.
If this is for developers only, why is it all over the consumer site, and why were press packs sent out to publications completely unrelated to developers?
BuonRotto, i think it bugs me for a couple of reasons. Firstly, as I say, it should really be directed at developers, not consumers.
Secondly, it's a change in policy at Apple that has come since its big makeover. If I remember correctly, OS 9 shipped around two weeks after it was announced, not five months.
Thirdly, this new policy of announcing products long before they're ready is a dark road to head down. Remember how upset people were when faster G4s weren't shipping in numbers for months? And how annoyed people were that the LCD iMacs were taking so long to appear?
It's also ominous in a business sense. Current products aren't enough to push the company's value, so they're using products that won't be on sale for several months. It's just one step away from accusations of vaporware.
Also, if this was purely for developers, why is the coverage offered by Apple about such superficial "improvements" as iChat, the Address Book, and Sherlock 3? Mention of a multi-threaded Finder, something we should have had last year, is relegated to a little paragraph at the bottom of the page.
[quote]Originally posted by starfleetX:
You may already know info windows have changed, but did you know they are spawned many times over now?
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-multiple-info-windows.jpg"; target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-multiple-info-windows.jpg</a>;
<hr></blockquote>
Hmm, ya know I was really starting to like having one window for "Get Info". Is there any option to keep it as it was (is now)?
[quote]
Minimized windows can be dragged off the Dock, but it seems rather pointless. I expect later Big Things? may come from this. You can't "toss" these miniwindows like in older builds. You can drag one back into the Dock, but the Dock has to the shown (it won't bring up the Dock if autohide is set).
<hr></blockquote>
Hmm... this is an odd feature <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> I don't really understand what its supposed to do. Is it just to have minimized windows outside of the dock? Sort of like a shortcut to a folder/window?
[quote]
More Classic info!
<hr></blockquote>
People still use Classic?
[quote]
A different map and selection method for time zones. Hmm. I think I liked the old way better.
<hr></blockquote>
Eep! Are we going back to MacOS 7!!! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> What was that secret location in the OS 7 map control panel again? Was an easter egg. Would be fun to see if its there too.
BTW, whats withe "Label" settings? Left, Right? Can ya get a pic of that?
Can you take a pic of the contextual menu on various items (a jpd, txt, folder, on the desktop, on an app, etc?) Is it 'smarter'?
Also, if you are on a mixed network, can you see if/how well SMB browsing is? Like Dave?
Any new power settings (Energy Saver)?
Thanks in advance!
And it's not here.
[quote]BTW, whats withe "Label" settings? Left, Right? Can ya get a pic of that?<hr></blockquote>That's just to determine if the icon name will be under or to the right of it. Nothing spectacular.
[quote]Can you take a pic of the contextual menu on various items (a jpd, txt, folder, on the desktop, on an app, etc?) Is it 'smarter'?
Also, if you are on a mixed network, can you see if/how well SMB browsing is? Like Dave?
Any new power settings (Energy Saver)?<hr></blockquote>I'm not sure if it's smarter -- seems to be exactly the same as what's in the Show Info windows. I'm just at home on PPPoE DSL; so, I have no fancy network tests. Energy Saver has no new options except hard disk sleep was changed from a slider to a checkbox.
Here's the context shot:
Odd that it lists PS7 as a classic app (it's actually the OSX version).
Also worth noting:
The context menu on the desktop has "Change Desktop Background..." like OS9 had (well, and Windows too).
[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-wiggy-redraw.jpg"; target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-wiggy-redraw.jpg</a>;
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-firewall-1.jpg"; target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-firewall-1.jpg</a>;
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-firewall-2.jpg"; target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-firewall-2.jpg</a>;
[Paper size defaults cannot be set to A4 in an English installation, but default to US Letter, thus soundly shagging UK, Aus, and anyone outside US (like France) with an English OS]
This is a serious impediment to this OS, as you have to go to Page Setup EVERY TIME YOU WANT TO PRINT A PAGE.
Paper size defaults cannot be set to A4 in an English installation, but default to US Letter, thus soundly shagging UK, Aus, and anyone outside US (like France) with an English OS<hr></blockquote>I've tried all sorts of things and can't get it off the default US Letter.
Also, more shots that were requested by MacNN'ers:
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-dockmenu.jpg"; target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-dockmenu.jpg</a>;
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ie-popup.jpg"; target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ie-popup.jpg</a>;
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ie-context.jpg"; target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ie-context.jpg</a>;
[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
How fast is the dock menu for large docked folders, say 100 items+?
Could you strip the extension off a .sit file and remove its file type info (by uloading to a ftp and getting it back, or by other means) and try the 'open with" cmm on it to see if does a bit of header parsing magic?
<strong>Thirdly, this new policy of announcing products long before they're ready is a dark road to head down. Remember how upset people were when faster G4s weren't shipping in numbers for months? And how annoyed people were that the LCD iMacs were taking so long to appear?</strong><hr></blockquote>
You can't compare that. They are announcing Jaguar as being released in about four months, but they told people that they could buy the iMac the same day and delivered in a couple of weeks, but it was delayed.
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>It's also ominous in a business sense. Current products aren't enough to push the company's value, so they're using products that won't be on sale for several months. It's just one step away from accusations of vaporware.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, blame the Internet. Apple have been very good at keeping Jaguar a secret, but at soome time the developers had to know about it, and you know that a few houors after the developers get their hands on new software you can find at your local Carracho server.
By announcing it a few hours before Joe Schmoe installs it, there is still an element of surprise, and it is a lot more exciting to read/see a product presentation, when you don't know everything that's being presented.
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>Also, if this was purely for developers, why is the coverage offered by Apple about such superficial "improvements" as iChat, the Address Book, and Sherlock 3?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Because developers can make products that interact with those "superficial improvements".
[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: JLL ]
[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: JLL ]</p>
<strong>Odd that it lists PS7 as a classic app (it's actually the OSX version).
</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you look at Photoshop's bundle you'll find two Photoshop apps in it. One Carbon app for Mac OS X (and Mac OS X only) and a Classic app (which is not Carbon).
<strong>I've tried all sorts of things and can't </strong><hr></blockquote>
Have you tried <a href="http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=12554&db=mac"; target="_blank">A4 Default Paper Size?</a>
Thank you
Oh, and can you adjust that huge grid size in the finder that Apple seems to like so much? Maybe I shouldn't complain; they did let us change our font size. I mean, the grid size adjustment alogrithm must be lost in OS 9's coffin or something.
Adding features to the finder must be difficult. It seems much easier to work on Quartz Extreme and have 3d objects floating on your desktop reflecting what's on your screen
<strong>
Have you tried <a href="http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=12554&db=mac"; target="_blank">A4 Default Paper Size?</a></strong><hr></blockquote>
The point was that he checked if you didn't need that hack in Jaguar.
attention to detail. i like it.
I mean, as an admin, am I supposed to go around to all 40 machines in a facility and run a foggin shareware hack so that workflow isn't impaired?
thanks...
<a href="http://www.vgg.com/rob/WindowsBloom.html"; target="_blank">http://www.vgg.com/rob/WindowsBloom.html</a>;
just FYI