The book was nothing like the movie... I was hoping for the jump suits, but got Beverly Hills, 90210 in Space, instead. Because it was so different, I ended up liking it a lot. One of my all-time favorites. I always remember the immortal line, "We're in this for the species, boys and girls."... delivered by Doogie Howser!
I'd argue that what you got was a devatsating critique of jingoism hiding behind 90210 in space. Remember the last scene with Doogie raping the brain bug?
My favorite bit is the shower scene, where they have that fairly detailed discussion of their world's political structure.
The book was nothing like the movie... I was hoping for the jump suits, but got Beverly Hills, 90210 in Space, instead. Because it was so different, I ended up liking it a lot. One of my all-time favorites. I always remember the immortal line, "We're in this for the species, boys and girls."... delivered by Doogie Howser!
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter
I'd argue that what you got was a devatsating critique of jingoism hiding behind 90210 in space. Remember the last scene with Doogie raping the brain bug?
My favorite bit is the shower scene, where they have that fairly detailed discussion of their world's political structure.
I was disappointed too that they threw out the mobile suits and most of the rest of the book as well. What irked me most was them keeping the RPG nukes while the soldiers ran around without any protective gear.
I'd still rate it OK as a 'popcorn' flick, it also has some great lines in it .
Since they left out the armor suits maybe they'll come out with a movie of John Steakley's Armor some day. Similar to ST, humans fighting giant insect aliens with power armor, but without so much political commentary.
I'd argue that what you got was a devatsating critique of jingoism hiding behind 90210 in space. Remember the last scene with Doogie raping the brain bug?
My favorite bit is the shower scene, where they have that fairly detailed discussion of their world's political structure.
i just saw it... and while i agree that that subtext was there... it was either all or none -- there were vast tracks of the movie that were simply standard fare action films -- the only real critique was the intermittent news reals and the fact that the script called for everyone being a little brain dead. it was cliched but wasn't willing to accept it was cliched...
i just saw it... and while i agree that that subtext was there... it was either all or none -- there were vast tracks of the movie that were simply standard fare action films -- the only real critique was the intermittent news reals and the fact that the script called for everyone being a little brain dead. it was cliched but wasn't willing to accept it was cliched...
See, I think it's pretty clearly deploying those cliches as part of its critique.
See, I think it's pretty clearly deploying those cliches as part of its critique.
i have decided that i am only really liking films that don't care how bad they are... this is the army of darkness style films that become so terrible, they twist back around to great.
starship troopers just takes itself too seriously -- one can almost hear the director telling everyone to try to deliver their lines with no irony, as they are making art... i am sorry, but if you want to mock something, you have to be able to mock yourself... there is no irony in that movie other than the clearly intentional overbearing dripping sort...
it is too light headed to be asking the audience to think... the movie wasn't subtle -- it actually presented no counter point to its core argument, which is ultimately disappointing.
Starship Troopers is something of a paradox, an exercise in and examination of mindlessness. I mean, it's not rocket science, but its cynicism is simultaneously smarmy and smart, exacting a cost for any pleasure you may take in its nasty-ass violence. In this respect it's not unlike Verhoeven's remarkable Robocop (1987), which was good gory fun as well as an astute look at Reaganomics, '80s corporate politics, privatization and the uncomfortable legacy of the Hollywood Western. The new film is less weighed down by major iconography (the robosuited Peter Weller seeking his identity had its heavy-handed moments), more relaxed and self-reflexive. For example, it lifts those "commercial spots" directly from Robocop: here these comedic insertions?appearing as if on television, commenting ironically on the progressively brutal action?make the point that the military's recruitment campaign is perpetual, that war is business, that bugs and recruits are similarly expendable.
It's not a little funny that Verhoeven calls it his most "romantic" film, noting that a character says "I love you" and means it, but the fact that the cast is (relatively) fresh meat lifted quite literally from Aaron Spelling's TV-soap-land, suggests that the director is either messing with his interviewer or seeing romance as one big cliché. Either way or both ways, the film does do a number on those romantic clichés that constitute traditional war imagery.
...
I raise this question because it applies to the film's generally ambiguous tone. Starship Troopers may be less overt about its politics than Robocop, but any movie that turns Doogie Howser into a fascist has some serious cultural analysis going on. Its glib depictions of dismemberment, decapitation and horrendous evisceration can be alarming, but they can also be understood as the film's (rather visceral) assessment of?for instance?the current U.S. drive toward escalating militarization, incorporation and globalization. This picture is not pretty.
i do understand where you are coming from -- i just don't agree that it was done well or with the right pitch. my point is that the book that was being mocked was as mindless as the movie -- there was no higher intellectual ground achieved, if anything the movie justified the pithy and knee-jerk assessments of complex sociological phenomena that it was attempting to criticize... i'd rather not be spoon fed a political ideology, even if i agree with it...
i do understand where you are coming from -- i just don't agree that it was done well or with the right pitch. my point is that the book that was being mocked was as mindless as the movie -- there was no higher intellectual ground achieved, if anything the movie justified the pithy and knee-jerk assessments of complex sociological phenomena that it was attempting to criticize... i'd rather not be spoon fed a political ideology, even if i agree with it...
I'm pretty sure Robert Heinlein would've hated the movie, since he wrote it for young boys. Veerhoven gave the film his trademark savagery but kept the amusing teenager naivete intact. A disturbing combination, leading some to call the film propaganda (interestingly, also a criticism of the book).
Comments
The book was nothing like the movie... I was hoping for the jump suits, but got Beverly Hills, 90210 in Space, instead. Because it was so different, I ended up liking it a lot. One of my all-time favorites. I always remember the immortal line, "We're in this for the species, boys and girls."... delivered by Doogie Howser!
I'd argue that what you got was a devatsating critique of jingoism hiding behind 90210 in space. Remember the last scene with Doogie raping the brain bug?
My favorite bit is the shower scene, where they have that fairly detailed discussion of their world's political structure.
rough list -- in no particular order -- except for Burnt by the Sun, which makes for it's own top ten.
Burnt by the Sun
Blade Runner
Solaris (no, not the American soul-wrecking, cheap knock-off)
Notorious
Andrei Rublev
Cries and Whispers
Aliens
Nanook of the North
Gladiator
Black Hawk Down
runners up:
Casablanca
Citzen Kane
From Russia with Love
The book was nothing like the movie... I was hoping for the jump suits, but got Beverly Hills, 90210 in Space, instead. Because it was so different, I ended up liking it a lot. One of my all-time favorites. I always remember the immortal line, "We're in this for the species, boys and girls."... delivered by Doogie Howser!
I'd argue that what you got was a devatsating critique of jingoism hiding behind 90210 in space. Remember the last scene with Doogie raping the brain bug?
My favorite bit is the shower scene, where they have that fairly detailed discussion of their world's political structure.
I was disappointed too that they threw out the mobile suits and most of the rest of the book as well. What irked me most was them keeping the RPG nukes while the soldiers ran around without any protective gear.
I'd still rate it OK as a 'popcorn' flick, it also has some great lines in it .
Since they left out the armor suits maybe they'll come out with a movie of John Steakley's Armor some day. Similar to ST, humans fighting giant insect aliens with power armor, but without so much political commentary.
I'd argue that what you got was a devatsating critique of jingoism hiding behind 90210 in space. Remember the last scene with Doogie raping the brain bug?
My favorite bit is the shower scene, where they have that fairly detailed discussion of their world's political structure.
i just saw it... and while i agree that that subtext was there... it was either all or none -- there were vast tracks of the movie that were simply standard fare action films -- the only real critique was the intermittent news reals and the fact that the script called for everyone being a little brain dead. it was cliched but wasn't willing to accept it was cliched...
i just saw it... and while i agree that that subtext was there... it was either all or none -- there were vast tracks of the movie that were simply standard fare action films -- the only real critique was the intermittent news reals and the fact that the script called for everyone being a little brain dead. it was cliched but wasn't willing to accept it was cliched...
See, I think it's pretty clearly deploying those cliches as part of its critique.
See, I think it's pretty clearly deploying those cliches as part of its critique.
i have decided that i am only really liking films that don't care how bad they are... this is the army of darkness style films that become so terrible, they twist back around to great.
starship troopers just takes itself too seriously -- one can almost hear the director telling everyone to try to deliver their lines with no irony, as they are making art... i am sorry, but if you want to mock something, you have to be able to mock yourself... there is no irony in that movie other than the clearly intentional overbearing dripping sort...
it is too light headed to be asking the audience to think... the movie wasn't subtle -- it actually presented no counter point to its core argument, which is ultimately disappointing.
Starship Troopers is something of a paradox, an exercise in and examination of mindlessness. I mean, it's not rocket science, but its cynicism is simultaneously smarmy and smart, exacting a cost for any pleasure you may take in its nasty-ass violence. In this respect it's not unlike Verhoeven's remarkable Robocop (1987), which was good gory fun as well as an astute look at Reaganomics, '80s corporate politics, privatization and the uncomfortable legacy of the Hollywood Western. The new film is less weighed down by major iconography (the robosuited Peter Weller seeking his identity had its heavy-handed moments), more relaxed and self-reflexive. For example, it lifts those "commercial spots" directly from Robocop: here these comedic insertions?appearing as if on television, commenting ironically on the progressively brutal action?make the point that the military's recruitment campaign is perpetual, that war is business, that bugs and recruits are similarly expendable.
It's not a little funny that Verhoeven calls it his most "romantic" film, noting that a character says "I love you" and means it, but the fact that the cast is (relatively) fresh meat lifted quite literally from Aaron Spelling's TV-soap-land, suggests that the director is either messing with his interviewer or seeing romance as one big cliché. Either way or both ways, the film does do a number on those romantic clichés that constitute traditional war imagery.
...
I raise this question because it applies to the film's generally ambiguous tone. Starship Troopers may be less overt about its politics than Robocop, but any movie that turns Doogie Howser into a fascist has some serious cultural analysis going on. Its glib depictions of dismemberment, decapitation and horrendous evisceration can be alarming, but they can also be understood as the film's (rather visceral) assessment of?for instance?the current U.S. drive toward escalating militarization, incorporation and globalization. This picture is not pretty.
i do understand where you are coming from -- i just don't agree that it was done well or with the right pitch. my point is that the book that was being mocked was as mindless as the movie -- there was no higher intellectual ground achieved, if anything the movie justified the pithy and knee-jerk assessments of complex sociological phenomena that it was attempting to criticize... i'd rather not be spoon fed a political ideology, even if i agree with it...
I'm pretty sure Robert Heinlein would've hated the movie, since he wrote it for young boys. Veerhoven gave the film his trademark savagery but kept the amusing teenager naivete intact. A disturbing combination, leading some to call the film propaganda (interestingly, also a criticism of the book).
Easy Rider
2001: A Space Odyssey
Clockwork Orange
Being There
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
Star Wars
p.s. This is my first post
Well, I'm not sure sure I keep track of a top ten list but here's my top 6...
Easy Rider
2001: A Space Odyssey
Clockwork Orange
Being There
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
Star Wars
p.s. This is my first post
Welcome, noob.
OMG.
GO SEE THAT.
Just saw Pan's Labyrinth.
OMG.
GO SEE THAT.
I own it. After the first time I saw it, I said out loud "THAT was a movie!"
I own it. After the first time I saw it, I said out loud "THAT was a movie!"
Gripping film. Would never own it though. It's way too depressing.
Just saw Pan's Labyrinth.
OMG.
GO SEE THAT.
Gripping film. Would never own it though. It's way too depressing.
Seconded, great film but not the type I'd watch over and over again. Similar to Schindler's List or Grave of the Fireflies in that respect.
We just watched Clerks for the first time, hilarious stuff!!
Next in my queue is The Talented Mr. Ripley and Ripley's Game.
Seconded, great film but not the type I'd watch over and over again. Similar to Schindler's List or Grave of the Fireflies in that respect.
I think at this point you are "fourthing" the greatness that is Pan's Labyrinth.
Next in my queue is The Talented Mr. Ripley and Ripley's Game.
Don't forget Ripley's Believe It Or Not!
Don't forget Ripley's Believe It Or Not!
Might as well add Alien, Aliens, Alien Tres, and Alien "why-is-Wynona-Rider-in-this-movie" Resurrection.
Might as well add Alien, Aliens, Alien Tres, and Alien "why-is-Wynona-Rider-in-this-movie" Resurrection.
It's actually Winona Ryder... you had the "y" and the "i", but reversed.