It is ironic, but it's not a big deal. Apple is mostly a consumer computer company, and the business sectors they are in, there aren't very many that use them for POS devices. It just doesn't make sense to rework such a device to run OS X.
Though what you say is logical and sensical, it flies in the face of the philosophy of everything I've read at the AppleInsider regarding MAC vs Windows. It almost sounds like you are conceding that it's a Windows world afterall.
I shudder to think of the commercial that Microsoft could air detailing this litte unknown fact taking place in Apple stores every day.
And if the shoe were on the other foot-Microsoft Corp using OSX- would that also be "not a big deal"?
Because Ogg Theora sucks in comparison to h.264? Most companies will pay the h.264 royalties. Lock in seems remote just for using h.264.
And since when does Jobs want more DRM?
The problem isn't protesting outside of Apple stores. The problem is advocating a denial of service attack on Apple's Genius Bars. They want to hand out flyers in front of an Apple store that's fine (if a bit pointless).
This isn't about Open Source which Apple uses and contributes to. This is a about a few freetard zealots being jerks.
Companies will pay the royalties but pass the bill to the consumers in increased media costs. I'm not arguing in favor of Ogg Theora in particular, I'm just saying that wherever there's DRM or proprietary formats, end-users are paying more for more restrictions.
Meanwhile, Steve can claim day and night that he's pushing for DRM-free music on iTunes, but until I see equally-priced (or cheaper) DRM-free tunes, I refuse to believe he means it. iTunes is the #1 or #2 music retailer - whichever - which means APPLE HAS THE POWER TO PRESSURE RECORD LABELS.
Apple does contribute to Open Source Software, which is great, but to 99.8% of the population, Open Darwin means nothing.
And by the way, I'd like to REITERATE that I don't agree with FSF's method of protest. It's rude and practically worthless. I AM in favor of more Open Source and fewer proprietary formats, though, and people should be informed about their benefits.
I'm no genius but I guess all those software developers out there like getting paid and providing for their family. If these guys want a free open source operating system with support for Ogg and Flac and free software then get Linux and quit bitching and whining about OS X, an operating system that works out the box and Doesn't require a ton of Terminal commands to get support for everyday files such as MP3. As for the DRM policy, until internet piracy disappears over night then there is always going to be DRM in some capacity. Also for unlocking the iPhone why the F@ck should apple unlock it? I doubt apple spend Millions of dollars on R&D just for some guys to hack all their good work.
But, I guess they like to do what they do because it's an escape (just like TV, booze, drugs, etc.) from the crappy reality which is their own personal life (which, as you can read from the first comments I've made, they're never going to fix because they're far too lazy to put effort into solving their own personal shortcomings).
You guess? Do you have any qualifications to judge other people's personal lives like that? And you are sure you don't have any personal problems that would preclude such a high-horse position?
It almost sounds like you are conceding that it's a Windows world afterall.
In a lot of ways it is. They have something like 10x the marketshare of all the other desktop OSes combined. And while their mobile marketshare is much smaller, it's a platform that many probably wanted to use as the basis of their POS systems because of their programmers were well versed in Windows programming.
We also have to consider that Apple doesn't license it's OS so there is no way that a 3rd-party POS system could have been designed by Motorola or Symbol for their handheld. I suppose it's less of a story if the underlying OS used by Symbol was Symbian but that doesn't change the fact that Apple doesn't make a POS handheld device so they would have to get from an external vendor.
Someone could make an MMS app that would resize an app locally for MMS, send it to a relay server and then send to the appropriate contact. Charging the average price per pic sent. For receiving pics,
The app sounds like a great option to have since there is no MMS.
In a lot of ways it is. They have something like 10x the marketshare of all the other desktop OSes combined. And while their mobile marketshare is much smaller, it's a platform that many probably wanted to use as the basis of their POS systems because of their programmers were well versed in Windows programming. We also have to consider that Apple doesn't license it's OS so there is no way that a 3rd-party POS system could have been designed by Motorola or Symbol for for handheld. I suppose it's less of a story if the underlying OS used by Symbol is Symbian but doesn't change the fact that Apple doesn't make a POS handheld device.
So do you think until the time that Apple does actually license OSX it really cannot grow beyond 20 percent -max?
Do you think it will ever be licensed during S Jobs tenure or after?
So do you think until the time that Apple does actually license OSX it really cannot grow beyond 20 percent -max?
Most likely not, but that is looking at the entire market of OS sales. We know that Windows are used in devices that Apple has never been in. If we look at the consumer market, the notebook market or the $1000+ personal computer market we see Apple has a much larger marketshare. Apple is the 3rd largest PC vendor in the US, that aspect (and it's year-over-year) growth is more important than comparing it to an OS that is sold to all and designed to run on most hardware.
Quote:
Do you think it will ever be licensed during S Jobs tenure or after?
They didn't do it in the mid-90s when they were hurting badly in every area and would have been handsomely by HW vendors to get out from MS grasp, so I don't think that they'd do it while they are thriving.
Hey everybody, we're currently finishing up an open letter to these morons at Defective by Design. We're expecting a surge of response on our website so if you wouldn't mind, we would appreciate your help in fielding their idiotic remarks.
I'm no genius but I guess all those software developers out there like getting paid and providing for their family. If these guys want a free open source operating system with support for Ogg and Flac and free software then get Linux and quit bitching and whining about OS X, an operating system that works out the box and Doesn't require a ton of Terminal commands to get support for everyday files such as MP3. As for the DRM policy, until internet piracy disappears over night then there is always going to be DRM in some capacity. Also for unlocking the iPhone why the F@ck should apple unlock it? I doubt apple spend Millions of dollars on R&D just for some guys to hack all their good work.
You have a point about piracy being an issue. That's why we end up paying more for DRM-free music on iTunes... to subsidize the cost of others' pirating, amongst other things like putting the song on an unlimited number of devices the purchaser legitly owns.
But at the same time, I disagree with your assesment that unlocking the iPhone hurts Apple. Without the choice of carrier, it's a question of reduced sale (no kick-back from AT&T) or no sale, period. Surely Apple benefits more from reduced sale more than no sale (assuming the reduced sale is at or above break-even price), especially now with the app store to help subsidize the cost of the phone.
to the point I wanted to register and post. It's amazing to me to be so passionate in demanding someone else to do something, and still not take the initiative to develop your own product.
Instead of protesting, why not develop your own platform to do the things you want? Great benefit of being in this society is you have the opportunity to do that. That way, everyone's happy. Those who want a more "open" platform have their own little product, with all the issues and lack of support, and those who prefer to have a product that's a little locked down to make it easier for the company to issue updates and solve problems have their own product.
As far as DRM goes, if it's really that big of an issue to you, stop being lazy, burn those tracks to an audio CD, and re-import. Viola, DRM-free music.
Is it just me, or is this generation coming up the whiney, spoiled group?
Though what you say is logical and sensical, it flies in the face of the philosophy of everything I've read at the AppleInsider regarding MAC vs Windows. It almost sounds like you are conceding that it's a Windows world afterall.
I shudder to think of the commercial that Microsoft could air detailing this litte unknown fact taking place in Apple stores every day.
And if the shoe were on the other foot-Microsoft Corp using OSX- would that also be "not a big deal"?
I don't get why this is a big deal at all, or why anyone would care. Apple makes computers and media players. Why would anyone be surprised that a custom portable cash register station doesn't run OSX? If they wanted one running their OS, they'd have to create it themselves instead of just buying a solution from a third party.
And do you really think MS doesn't run OSX at all?
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud
So do you think until the time that Apple does actually license OSX it really cannot grow beyond 20 percent -max?
Do you think it will ever be licensed during S Jobs tenure or after?
I think it can grow beyond that, and no, I don't think we'll see it anytime soon. To be honest I think apple is held back more by their choice of product line than by not licensing the OS.
Companies will pay the royalties but pass the bill to the consumers in increased media costs. I'm not arguing in favor of Ogg Theora in particular, I'm just saying that wherever there's DRM or proprietary formats, end-users are paying more for more restrictions.
I think in the end, companies will use open solutions that are technically superior (or at least equivalent) to proprietary ones if there isn't a strategic reason not to.
The problem with open standards is that proponents value "freedom" (as they define it) over technical capability. Theora is a prime example...it's a generation behind h.264 but proponents didn't care.
More importantly, these proponents have specific social agendas that are diametrically opposed to those of content owners. Then they have the gall to whine that these content owners and the content distributers that depend on the content owners nix "open standards" that deliberately do not have provision for DRM in the standard. Like Ogg Vorbis and Theora. Like in HTML5.
Boo hoo.
This is the same kind of idiocy that many eco groups perpetrated to deliberately derail things they disagreed with and resulted in hurting the environment further. Nuclear power is one example.
Quote:
Apple does contribute to Open Source Software, which is great, but to 99.8% of the population, Open Darwin means nothing.
Apple contributes to gcc, webkit and other projects in addition to Darwin. It is the custodian for CUPS. It is contributing to LLVM and SproutCore.
early afternoon monday the fella managing traffic at the genius bar had never heard of a DRM protest in the works. wouldn't you think if it was a real threat apple would have given their people a heads-up, prepared them to handle it in the best way possible? this was in cincinnati: maybe the efforts are directed at specific locations only, and maybe apple has informed people at those stores?
I think in the end, companies will use open solutions that are technically superior (or at least equivalent) to proprietary ones if there isn't a strategic reason not to.
True, but not always the case. I think in the end, companies will use open solutions if it is financially advantageous.
Video game console manufacturers, for example, make most of their money licensing games for their proprietary hardware when it is well known that PCs are essentially free to develop for. Meanwhile the technology in PCs is often equal to or better than that found in consoles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
The problem with open standards is that proponents value "freedom" (as they define it) over technical capability. Theora is a prime example...it's a generation behind h.264 but proponents didn't care.
More importantly, these proponents have specific social agendas that are diametrically opposed to those of content owners. Then they have the gall to whine that these content owners and the content distributers that depend on the content owners nix "open standards" that deliberately do not have provision for DRM in the standard. Like Ogg Vorbis and Theora. Like in HTML5.
Boo hoo.
This is the same kind of idiocy that many eco groups perpetrated to deliberately derail things they disagreed with and resulted in hurting the environment further. Nuclear power is one example.
Not going to argue with you there. Fanatics often cause more problems than they solve. The important thing to take from it, though, is why they believe what they do.
I feel as though the anger is directed at companies who develop proprietary formats for the purpose of raking in the royalties and other methods of financial gain at the eventual expense of the user.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
Apple contributes to gcc, webkit and other projects in addition to Darwin. It is the custodian for CUPS. It is contributing to LLVM and SproutCore.
I'm not saying I don't appreciate their contributions, but taking serious action against DRM-controlled music, for example, would be a contribution that is meaningful to the greater public, as opposed to a select group of nerds and developers.
True, but not always the case. I think in the end, companies will use open solutions if it is financially advantageous.
Video game console manufacturers, for example, make most of their money licensing games for their proprietary hardware when it is well known that PCs are essentially free to develop for. Meanwhile the technology in PCs is often equal to or better than that found in consoles.
They go where the gamers are for their genre. Which can be consoles for some genres (FPS, sports games, etc) or PCs (RTS, MMOs, etc).
$11B for PC games in 2007 (world wide) vs $14B for console games in 2007. I don't know if that figure includes MMO revenue.
I also support open standards but I don't have issue with proprietary standards if they are better and relatively low cost (or even better...no cost).
No protestor has EVER done anything to help me, or anyone I know, out.
Think about that a little bit. How about the civil rights protestors of the 1950s? How about the suffragettes protesting for a woman's right to vote? How about the worker rallies of the early 1900s? Just to name a few. If you have a 40 hour work week (and get paid overtime for more than 40 hours), then the worker protests helped you out. (While we're at it, how about the Boston Tea Party?)
Obviously, this protest against Apple is ridiculous. But throughout history, there have been protests that have made society better. Protestors got Marcos out of the Philippines, got apartheid out of South Africa, and on and on.
Comments
It is ironic, but it's not a big deal. Apple is mostly a consumer computer company, and the business sectors they are in, there aren't very many that use them for POS devices. It just doesn't make sense to rework such a device to run OS X.
Though what you say is logical and sensical, it flies in the face of the philosophy of everything I've read at the AppleInsider regarding MAC vs Windows. It almost sounds like you are conceding that it's a Windows world afterall.
I shudder to think of the commercial that Microsoft could air detailing this litte unknown fact taking place in Apple stores every day.
And if the shoe were on the other foot-Microsoft Corp using OSX- would that also be "not a big deal"?
Because Ogg Theora sucks in comparison to h.264? Most companies will pay the h.264 royalties. Lock in seems remote just for using h.264.
And since when does Jobs want more DRM?
The problem isn't protesting outside of Apple stores. The problem is advocating a denial of service attack on Apple's Genius Bars. They want to hand out flyers in front of an Apple store that's fine (if a bit pointless).
This isn't about Open Source which Apple uses and contributes to. This is a about a few freetard zealots being jerks.
Companies will pay the royalties but pass the bill to the consumers in increased media costs. I'm not arguing in favor of Ogg Theora in particular, I'm just saying that wherever there's DRM or proprietary formats, end-users are paying more for more restrictions.
Meanwhile, Steve can claim day and night that he's pushing for DRM-free music on iTunes, but until I see equally-priced (or cheaper) DRM-free tunes, I refuse to believe he means it. iTunes is the #1 or #2 music retailer - whichever - which means APPLE HAS THE POWER TO PRESSURE RECORD LABELS.
Apple does contribute to Open Source Software, which is great, but to 99.8% of the population, Open Darwin means nothing.
And by the way, I'd like to REITERATE that I don't agree with FSF's method of protest. It's rude and practically worthless. I AM in favor of more Open Source and fewer proprietary formats, though, and people should be informed about their benefits.
-Clive
But, I guess they like to do what they do because it's an escape (just like TV, booze, drugs, etc.) from the crappy reality which is their own personal life (which, as you can read from the first comments I've made, they're never going to fix because they're far too lazy to put effort into solving their own personal shortcomings).
You guess? Do you have any qualifications to judge other people's personal lives like that? And you are sure you don't have any personal problems that would preclude such a high-horse position?
It almost sounds like you are conceding that it's a Windows world afterall.
In a lot of ways it is. They have something like 10x the marketshare of all the other desktop OSes combined. And while their mobile marketshare is much smaller, it's a platform that many probably wanted to use as the basis of their POS systems because of their programmers were well versed in Windows programming.
We also have to consider that Apple doesn't license it's OS so there is no way that a 3rd-party POS system could have been designed by Motorola or Symbol for their handheld. I suppose it's less of a story if the underlying OS used by Symbol was Symbian but that doesn't change the fact that Apple doesn't make a POS handheld device so they would have to get from an external vendor.
Someone could make an MMS app that would resize an app locally for MMS, send it to a relay server and then send to the appropriate contact. Charging the average price per pic sent. For receiving pics,
The app sounds like a great option to have since there is no MMS.
In a lot of ways it is. They have something like 10x the marketshare of all the other desktop OSes combined. And while their mobile marketshare is much smaller, it's a platform that many probably wanted to use as the basis of their POS systems because of their programmers were well versed in Windows programming. We also have to consider that Apple doesn't license it's OS so there is no way that a 3rd-party POS system could have been designed by Motorola or Symbol for for handheld. I suppose it's less of a story if the underlying OS used by Symbol is Symbian but doesn't change the fact that Apple doesn't make a POS handheld device.
So do you think until the time that Apple does actually license OSX it really cannot grow beyond 20 percent -max?
Do you think it will ever be licensed during S Jobs tenure or after?
So do you think until the time that Apple does actually license OSX it really cannot grow beyond 20 percent -max?
Most likely not, but that is looking at the entire market of OS sales. We know that Windows are used in devices that Apple has never been in. If we look at the consumer market, the notebook market or the $1000+ personal computer market we see Apple has a much larger marketshare. Apple is the 3rd largest PC vendor in the US, that aspect (and it's year-over-year) growth is more important than comparing it to an OS that is sold to all and designed to run on most hardware.
Do you think it will ever be licensed during S Jobs tenure or after?
They didn't do it in the mid-90s when they were hurting badly in every area and would have been handsomely by HW vendors to get out from MS grasp, so I don't think that they'd do it while they are thriving.
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I'm no genius but I guess all those software developers out there like getting paid and providing for their family. If these guys want a free open source operating system with support for Ogg and Flac and free software then get Linux and quit bitching and whining about OS X, an operating system that works out the box and Doesn't require a ton of Terminal commands to get support for everyday files such as MP3. As for the DRM policy, until internet piracy disappears over night then there is always going to be DRM in some capacity. Also for unlocking the iPhone why the F@ck should apple unlock it? I doubt apple spend Millions of dollars on R&D just for some guys to hack all their good work.
You have a point about piracy being an issue. That's why we end up paying more for DRM-free music on iTunes... to subsidize the cost of others' pirating, amongst other things like putting the song on an unlimited number of devices the purchaser legitly owns.
But at the same time, I disagree with your assesment that unlocking the iPhone hurts Apple. Without the choice of carrier, it's a question of reduced sale (no kick-back from AT&T) or no sale, period. Surely Apple benefits more from reduced sale more than no sale (assuming the reduced sale is at or above break-even price), especially now with the app store to help subsidize the cost of the phone.
-Clive
Instead of protesting, why not develop your own platform to do the things you want? Great benefit of being in this society is you have the opportunity to do that. That way, everyone's happy. Those who want a more "open" platform have their own little product, with all the issues and lack of support, and those who prefer to have a product that's a little locked down to make it easier for the company to issue updates and solve problems have their own product.
As far as DRM goes, if it's really that big of an issue to you, stop being lazy, burn those tracks to an audio CD, and re-import. Viola, DRM-free music.
Is it just me, or is this generation coming up the whiney, spoiled group?
They didn't do it in the mid-90s when they were hurting badly in every area and would have been handsomely by HW vendors to get out from MS grasp
Actually, they did license the OS in the mid-90s to Motorola, PowerComputing, UMAX, and a few others. Steve Jobs killed it off when he returned.
Though what you say is logical and sensical, it flies in the face of the philosophy of everything I've read at the AppleInsider regarding MAC vs Windows. It almost sounds like you are conceding that it's a Windows world afterall.
I shudder to think of the commercial that Microsoft could air detailing this litte unknown fact taking place in Apple stores every day.
And if the shoe were on the other foot-Microsoft Corp using OSX- would that also be "not a big deal"?
I don't get why this is a big deal at all, or why anyone would care. Apple makes computers and media players. Why would anyone be surprised that a custom portable cash register station doesn't run OSX? If they wanted one running their OS, they'd have to create it themselves instead of just buying a solution from a third party.
And do you really think MS doesn't run OSX at all?
So do you think until the time that Apple does actually license OSX it really cannot grow beyond 20 percent -max?
Do you think it will ever be licensed during S Jobs tenure or after?
I think it can grow beyond that, and no, I don't think we'll see it anytime soon. To be honest I think apple is held back more by their choice of product line than by not licensing the OS.
Companies will pay the royalties but pass the bill to the consumers in increased media costs. I'm not arguing in favor of Ogg Theora in particular, I'm just saying that wherever there's DRM or proprietary formats, end-users are paying more for more restrictions.
I think in the end, companies will use open solutions that are technically superior (or at least equivalent) to proprietary ones if there isn't a strategic reason not to.
The problem with open standards is that proponents value "freedom" (as they define it) over technical capability. Theora is a prime example...it's a generation behind h.264 but proponents didn't care.
More importantly, these proponents have specific social agendas that are diametrically opposed to those of content owners. Then they have the gall to whine that these content owners and the content distributers that depend on the content owners nix "open standards" that deliberately do not have provision for DRM in the standard. Like Ogg Vorbis and Theora. Like in HTML5.
Boo hoo.
This is the same kind of idiocy that many eco groups perpetrated to deliberately derail things they disagreed with and resulted in hurting the environment further. Nuclear power is one example.
Apple does contribute to Open Source Software, which is great, but to 99.8% of the population, Open Darwin means nothing.
Apple contributes to gcc, webkit and other projects in addition to Darwin. It is the custodian for CUPS. It is contributing to LLVM and SproutCore.
Their moms smoked pot when they knew they were pregnant, hence their self proclaimed title...
I think in the end, companies will use open solutions that are technically superior (or at least equivalent) to proprietary ones if there isn't a strategic reason not to.
True, but not always the case. I think in the end, companies will use open solutions if it is financially advantageous.
Video game console manufacturers, for example, make most of their money licensing games for their proprietary hardware when it is well known that PCs are essentially free to develop for. Meanwhile the technology in PCs is often equal to or better than that found in consoles.
The problem with open standards is that proponents value "freedom" (as they define it) over technical capability. Theora is a prime example...it's a generation behind h.264 but proponents didn't care.
More importantly, these proponents have specific social agendas that are diametrically opposed to those of content owners. Then they have the gall to whine that these content owners and the content distributers that depend on the content owners nix "open standards" that deliberately do not have provision for DRM in the standard. Like Ogg Vorbis and Theora. Like in HTML5.
Boo hoo.
This is the same kind of idiocy that many eco groups perpetrated to deliberately derail things they disagreed with and resulted in hurting the environment further. Nuclear power is one example.
Not going to argue with you there. Fanatics often cause more problems than they solve. The important thing to take from it, though, is why they believe what they do.
I feel as though the anger is directed at companies who develop proprietary formats for the purpose of raking in the royalties and other methods of financial gain at the eventual expense of the user.
Apple contributes to gcc, webkit and other projects in addition to Darwin. It is the custodian for CUPS. It is contributing to LLVM and SproutCore.
I'm not saying I don't appreciate their contributions, but taking serious action against DRM-controlled music, for example, would be a contribution that is meaningful to the greater public, as opposed to a select group of nerds and developers.
-Clive
True, but not always the case. I think in the end, companies will use open solutions if it is financially advantageous.
Video game console manufacturers, for example, make most of their money licensing games for their proprietary hardware when it is well known that PCs are essentially free to develop for. Meanwhile the technology in PCs is often equal to or better than that found in consoles.
They go where the gamers are for their genre. Which can be consoles for some genres (FPS, sports games, etc) or PCs (RTS, MMOs, etc).
$11B for PC games in 2007 (world wide) vs $14B for console games in 2007. I don't know if that figure includes MMO revenue.
I also support open standards but I don't have issue with proprietary standards if they are better and relatively low cost (or even better...no cost).
No protestor has EVER done anything to help me, or anyone I know, out.
Think about that a little bit. How about the civil rights protestors of the 1950s? How about the suffragettes protesting for a woman's right to vote? How about the worker rallies of the early 1900s? Just to name a few. If you have a 40 hour work week (and get paid overtime for more than 40 hours), then the worker protests helped you out. (While we're at it, how about the Boston Tea Party?)
Obviously, this protest against Apple is ridiculous. But throughout history, there have been protests that have made society better. Protestors got Marcos out of the Philippines, got apartheid out of South Africa, and on and on.
You need to look a little wider.
How about the suffragettes protesting for a woman's right to vote?