Here in the U.S. it is not illegal to unlock your phone (and U.S. Law trumps a Contract). The D.M.C.A. explicitly allows for this, without penalty.
Besides the fact that after a specific period of time, a carrier is required by law to unlock your phone on request, company/carrier contract be damned. I do not use cracked or unlicensed software, so as I originally stated Apple has more to lose than gain by bricking my phone.
Not to mention Apple and I fall well outside the time frame of the locking provisions any carrier could contractually impose (speaking only of the 1st Gen iPhone, which is what I use).
If I recall correctly, it is not a copyright violation to unlock your own phone.* Nothing makes it illegal to lock or to make it hard to unlock phones. So if Apple should start selling unlocked phones or to give out instructions to unlock phones they would be very vulnerable to law suits from ATT.
I missed that about there being a law requiring that cell phones must be unlocked after a certain period of time. Can you say more? Assuming that the is a true law and that even the earliest iPhone buyers still have a year left on their contract, what do you mean that you are well outside the time period?
*Wasn't it TracFone who tried to sue under the DCMA people who were buying their subsidized phone, unlocking them (thus the copyright angle) and selling the unlocked phones?
Here in the U.S. it is not illegal to unlock your phone (and U.S. Law trumps a Contract). The D.M.C.A. explicitly allows for this, without penalty.
(IANAL)
The DMCA temporary exemption says that the simple act of unlocking the phone isn't a criminal act. Using such an unlocked phone on a different network who is willing to accept you as a customer, is not a criminal act.
None of this means that the manufacturer is required to make it easy for you to do so, nor that the manufacturer is required to provide technical support for a software product that is fundamentally different from the software they originally shipped.
If you never signed up for any service contract with the original vendor prior to unlocking the phone, then that's probably the end of the story - you are not in any trouble, but you are now totally on your own from a technical-support standpoint.
However, if you've already signed up for a two-year service contract, then the fact that you're no longer making use of the service is irrelevant to the fact that you still have to meet the requirements of the contract - usually by either continuing to make regular payments for the full life of the contract, or, if you contract allows for it, by opting to terminate the contract, often requiring payment of an early termination fee.
Quote:
Besides the fact that after a specific period of time, a carrier is required by law to unlock your phone on request, company/carrier contract be damned. I do not use cracked or unlicensed software, so as I originally stated Apple has more to lose than gain by bricking my phone.
I am not aware of any such law or regulation on the books in the USA. Could you please point it out to me?
Quote:
Not to mention Apple and I fall well outside the time frame of the locking provisions any carrier could contractually impose (speaking only of the 1st Gen iPhone, which is what I use).
Again, what USA regulations or laws are you referring to with regards to limitations on the duration of a contract?
But that iPhone price was for a locked phone. Add at least $200 for an unlocked price, assuming a hypothetical one was made available here through Apple.
Apple did not charge a penny more for the locking option on an iPhone 1.0.
You walk into an apple store, hand them the asking price for the phone, and walk out.
You keep it locked, or unlock it yourself for ...... free?
Apple did not stop you from unlocking it.
They didn't charge you anything to allow it to be unlocked.
Your dumb-ass price of 200 bucks make you just sound like a fool.
Note to the world.
I'll unlock any iPhone 1.0 for half this knuckle-heads price.
Any takers? No? Right. Because Apple sold you their phone
by just walking in, going up to the counter and saying "Give me one please".
Sign nothing.
Comit to nothing.
Walk out.
Unlock it or activate it locked at home.
Let's see you do THAT with all the other phones you guys have been talking about.
Stop blaming Apple for problems with the cell phone industry.
Apple has already changed the business so much you can't recognize it.
Within two years, the changes will be even bigger.
200 bucks to unlock your iPhone when anyone can do it?
Apple did not charge a penny more for the locking option on an iPhone 1.0.
You walk into an apple store, hand them the asking price for the phone, and walk out.
You keep it locked, or unlock it yourself for ...... free?
You need to roll back on your personal attacks.
Not for free. While the up-front unlock cost may be free, there is a trade-off that you aren't acknowledging. Try getting warranty support if Apple finds it's been hacked. If the screen stops responding to touch, a button dies, and they find the phone is hacked, then you may very well be SOL.
What I mean is first party unlocked, sold as unlocked from the maker, which was quite a bit more expensive in Belgium and France.
As I understand it, there are quite a few third party unlocks for most phones. Apple isn't really special here. In fact, AT&T will unlock a phone for an account in good standing after a certain period, but the iPhone is specifically excluded from that policy.
(multiple personal attacks on posters removed - JL)
Your personal attacks aside, Apple didn't unlock your iPhone for you in the US, it had to be cracked by exploiting holes in the firmware. Nor did Apple consent to you buying an iPhone and unlocking it yourself to use with a different carrier, they just short-sidedly assumed that this wouldn't be an issue.
After the popularity of the iPhone was to known to them outside the country Apple put limits on the number you could buy (even after the demand had subsidised) and required a state ID and US credit card to complete the sale. No cash! This was all in an attempt to help insure getting paid the full price for the handset. For the 3G iPhone it is rumoured they had to rewrite the contract with AT&T to allow for a typical subsidisation model so they wouldn't lose money from unlocked, non-activated iPhones.
Granted, they couldn't stop you from doing it and won't be able to stop it from happening to the 3G model once the iPhone Dev Team figures out how to unlock it but they have learned their financailly costly lesson and are no longer allowing a "good faith" signup with AT&T.
The unlocked phones that were sold in Germany and France were at least $200 more than the ones locked to the carrier.
Apple did not charge a penny more for the locking option on an iPhone 1.0.
You walk into an apple store, hand them the asking price for the phone, and walk out.
You keep it locked, or unlock it yourself for ...... free?
Apple did not stop you from unlocking it.
They didn't charge you anything to allow it to be unlocked.
Your dumb-ass price of 200 bucks make you just sound like a fool.
Note to the world.
I'll unlock any iPhone 1.0 for half this knuckle-heads price.
Any takers? No? Right. Because Apple sold you their phone
by just walking in, going up to the counter and saying "Give me one please".
Sign nothing.
Comit to nothing.
Walk out.
Unlock it or activate it locked at home.
Let's see you do THAT with all the other phones you guys have been talking about.
Stop blaming Apple for problems with the cell phone industry.
Apple has already changed the business so much you can't recognize it.
Within two years, the changes will be even bigger.
200 bucks to unlock your iPhone when anyone can do it?
You're an idiot.
WOW!!!!!!!!
All this because JeffDM has his own opinion??? Looks like someone needs anger management classes with the quickness.
Technically as far as I am concerned Apple is preventing me from unlocking it because they did not provide me with the unlock code. Thus, they are part of the problem, not the solution.
All this because JeffDM has his own opinion??? Looks like someone needs anger management classes with the quickness.
Technically as far as I am concerned Apple is preventing me from unlocking it because they did not provide me with the unlock code. Thus, they are part of the problem, not the solution.
It seems as though things are moving in the other direction. I can understand the original motive both AT&T and Apple had for this. Mostly AT&T.
But as more companies in more countries get the phone, there will be much less reason for a lock. It will likely never go away completely.
But, it's really up to governments to decide what should be done.
It seems as though things are moving in the other direction. I can understand the original motive both AT&T and Apple had for this. Mostly AT&T.
But as more companies in more countries get the phone, there will be much less reason for a lock. It will likely never go away completely.
But, it's really up to governments to decide what should be done.
We know the AT&T contract is up in 2010. By that point LTE will be rolling out. Once Verizon and T-Mobile have that technology I believe they will get the iPhone.
Verizon's business model goes against the iPhone though. Along with expensive data services, Verizon charges $9.99 for GPS and now $2.99 for visual voicemail. Both of which come included on AT&T.
We know the AT&T contract is up in 2010. By that point LTE will be rolling out. Once Verizon and T-Mobile have that technology I believe they will get the iPhone.
I wouldn't expect to see LTE up and running in the US on AT&T and especially not on T-Mobile in 2010. We don't even have networks or cell radios that can utilize HSPA+ in the US.
The natural progression of this will see an advance in other countries first and then then a start in the US (probably among Verizon) with USB and ExpressCards that can handle the extra power consumption and processing needs of these faster networks. As it is now, The iPhone, as power as it is, isn't fast enough to handle the fastest HSDPA download or HSUPA upload speeds.
Quote:
Verizon's business model goes against the iPhone though. Along with expensive data services, Verizon charges $9.99 for GPS and now $2.99 for visual voicemail. Both of which come included on AT&T.
They do nickle and dime you, and until recently they were the most offensive US carrier in terms of crippling your device's native firmware. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing they will have no choice but to offer these options free as part of a data plan as phones and networks get more advanced.
We know the AT&T contract is up in 2010. By that point LTE will be rolling out. Once Verizon and T-Mobile have that technology I believe they will get the iPhone.
Verizon's business model goes against the iPhone though. Along with expensive data services, Verizon charges $9.99 for GPS and now $2.99 for visual voicemail. Both of which come included on AT&T.
That's true, but a lot of carriers have offered plans they didn't offer before, many with much cheaper online services than before. When this happens, it's possible that Verison won't be charging for that all. Who knows?
A bit of time ago, the cheapest data plan Verison had was for $45 a month. That's changed.
I wouldn't expect to see LTE up and running in the US on AT&T and especially not on T-Mobile in 2010. We don't even have networks or cell radios that can utilize HSPA+ in the US.
I just meant LTE will be around in general. Not so much that US wireless will have it by that time. Even though AT&T and Verizon seem confident they will start a roll out by that point.
Quote:
That's true, but a lot of carriers have offered plans they didn't offer before, many with much cheaper online services than before. When this happens, it's possible that Verison won't be charging for that all. Who knows?
There is no such thing as a 100% GPS. There is propagation, interference, and a host of other things that is well out of Apples hands. I have a Garmin GPSMap 60CSx, and a Garmin Colorado 300. Both are considered top of the line in consumer GPS devices and they only give about 3 meter accuracy. So, you are hoping for something that will never happen. Apple might include turn by turn navigation but this too is generally approximate.
it's not even close to accurate it's always behind and it skips while moving across the map where as a tom tom slides smooth and accuratly
GPS... Mine is spot on every time. Even tried walking around downtown with it and could see a change when I walked to the other side of the street, just 3 meters. I also get posits very quickly (faster than my much more expensive car nav system- usually half the time), which is awesome.
it's not even close to accurate it's always behind and it skips while moving across the map where as a tom tom slides smooth and accuratly
The antenna in your Tom Tom is much bigger and it's designed for use while driving. Cell phones have the benefit of utilising A-GPS but they tend to be smaller and have GPS as only a feature, not as it's main purpose for being.
Not for free. While the up-front unlock cost may be free, there is a trade-off that you aren't acknowledging. Try getting warranty support if Apple finds it's been hacked. If the screen stops responding to touch, a button dies, and they find the phone is hacked, then you may very well be SOL.
What I mean is first party unlocked, sold as unlocked from the maker, which was quite a bit more expensive in Belgium and France.
As I understand it, there are quite a few third party unlocks for most phones. Apple isn't really special here. In fact, AT&T will unlock a phone for an account in good standing after a certain period, but the iPhone is specifically excluded from that policy.
You're the guy complaining the touch didn't work on mobile phone networks.... right?
Ok.
<Not for free. While the up-front unlock cost may be free, there is a trade-off that you aren't acknowledging. >
Excuse me, Apple had one price.
You walk in the store, you pay that price and you walk out.
You didn't need to pay ANYTHING to unlock it, Apple didn't try to make a PENNY from you if you wanted it unlocked.
Get a clue.
<Try getting warranty support if Apple finds it's been hacked. If the screen stops responding to touch, a button dies, and they find the phone is hacked, then you may very well be SOL.>
All you need to do is reset it, and it's back to normal.
What part of this are you having trouble with?
It's a phone.
It's sold in a computer store.
People been buying them and making their own choice to run it on a supported network or use it the way they want on an unsupported network.
Same as so many other phones that you don't want to notice do excatly the same thing.
This is really just silly fud bashing.
A lot of people can't get over that Apple controls their OS experience, software downloaded, and the relationship with the carrier.
This isn't really any different than most other premier handsets.
I mean really, you want to do a comparison of the Instinct and how to move it to other networks or what it's warrenty is? (LOL)
<What I mean is first party unlocked, sold as unlocked from the maker, which was quite a bit more expensive in Belgium and France.>
You live there?
You want to compare the Sony experience differences between the U.S. market and each country around the world? Let's keep it real. You can't focus on problems here and then bring up countries that have crazy differences in how hardware can be sold and tarrifs.
<As I understand it, there are quite a few third party unlocks for most phones. Apple isn't really special here. In fact, AT&T will unlock a phone for an account in good standing after a certain period, but the iPhone is specifically excluded from that policy.>
I don't get it.
You're complaining about AT&T's policy about unlocking the phone?
That's it?
Again, you could've walked in to Apple, bought an iPhone for ZERO dollars extract, (that's 200 dollars less than your FUD quote) and walked out without a contract on any carrier.
You could then unlock it and run it anywhere you want.
While you want to use a 200 dollar fee for an unlocked phone comparison, a million people unlocked their iPhone and ran it just fine. Get over it.
All this because JeffDM has his own opinion??? Looks like someone needs anger management classes with the quickness.
Technically as far as I am concerned Apple is preventing me from unlocking it because they did not provide me with the unlock code. Thus, they are part of the problem, not the solution.
His opinion was that an unlocked iPhone had a cost of 200 dollars more, and blamed Apple for it. Jeese..... the iPhone is a computer with a cell capability in it.
The Touch is a computer without a cell capability in it.
You could have unlocked the cell capability yourself.
If you don't understand the difference between a cell phone, and a hand held computer, or you can't handle running software on a computer to do things like unlock a capability, then people should probably stick to flip-phones.
But people are so wildly jeolous of the iPone experience, and upset they can't get it on their own carrier, they need to chill.
If you don't like it, don't buy it.
But don't blame Apple because the Touch can't use a cell tower and don't pretend Apple charged 200 dollars to sell you an unlocked phone.
I used Motorolla phones that they controlled.
Everybody moaned about it.
Moaning isn't new.
And crackers have been cracking systems for a long time.
If you think this stuff isn't normal run of the mill stuff, let me know how that Instinct is working for ya on the Verizon network.....
His opinion was that an unlocked iPhone had a cost of 200 dollars more, and blamed Apple for it.
I didn't say or do that, you missed my meaning or just took me out of context. Whether you are doing it deliberately, accidentally or subconsciously, what you are doing is a strawman argument. Read it, spin/misunderstand it, then attack me based on the spin or misunderstanding. If you are applying to work for a political campaign, put me down as a reference, you seem to have the attack dog political style down.
I didn't say or do that, you missed my meaning or just took me out of context. Whether you are doing it deliberately, accidentally or subconsciously, what you are doing is a strawman argument. Read it, spin/misunderstand it, then attack me based on the spin or misunderstanding. If you are applying to work for a political campaign, put me down as a reference, you seem to have the attack dog political style down.
LOL, good come back. You bitch-slapped him around there!
Comments
Tunnel vision serves no one.
Here in the U.S. it is not illegal to unlock your phone (and U.S. Law trumps a Contract). The D.M.C.A. explicitly allows for this, without penalty.
Besides the fact that after a specific period of time, a carrier is required by law to unlock your phone on request, company/carrier contract be damned. I do not use cracked or unlicensed software, so as I originally stated Apple has more to lose than gain by bricking my phone.
Not to mention Apple and I fall well outside the time frame of the locking provisions any carrier could contractually impose (speaking only of the 1st Gen iPhone, which is what I use).
If I recall correctly, it is not a copyright violation to unlock your own phone.* Nothing makes it illegal to lock or to make it hard to unlock phones. So if Apple should start selling unlocked phones or to give out instructions to unlock phones they would be very vulnerable to law suits from ATT.
I missed that about there being a law requiring that cell phones must be unlocked after a certain period of time. Can you say more? Assuming that the is a true law and that even the earliest iPhone buyers still have a year left on their contract, what do you mean that you are well outside the time period?
*Wasn't it TracFone who tried to sue under the DCMA people who were buying their subsidized phone, unlocking them (thus the copyright angle) and selling the unlocked phones?
Tunnel vision serves no one.
Here in the U.S. it is not illegal to unlock your phone (and U.S. Law trumps a Contract). The D.M.C.A. explicitly allows for this, without penalty.
(IANAL)
The DMCA temporary exemption says that the simple act of unlocking the phone isn't a criminal act. Using such an unlocked phone on a different network who is willing to accept you as a customer, is not a criminal act.
None of this means that the manufacturer is required to make it easy for you to do so, nor that the manufacturer is required to provide technical support for a software product that is fundamentally different from the software they originally shipped.
If you never signed up for any service contract with the original vendor prior to unlocking the phone, then that's probably the end of the story - you are not in any trouble, but you are now totally on your own from a technical-support standpoint.
However, if you've already signed up for a two-year service contract, then the fact that you're no longer making use of the service is irrelevant to the fact that you still have to meet the requirements of the contract - usually by either continuing to make regular payments for the full life of the contract, or, if you contract allows for it, by opting to terminate the contract, often requiring payment of an early termination fee.
Besides the fact that after a specific period of time, a carrier is required by law to unlock your phone on request, company/carrier contract be damned. I do not use cracked or unlicensed software, so as I originally stated Apple has more to lose than gain by bricking my phone.
I am not aware of any such law or regulation on the books in the USA. Could you please point it out to me?
Not to mention Apple and I fall well outside the time frame of the locking provisions any carrier could contractually impose (speaking only of the 1st Gen iPhone, which is what I use).
Again, what USA regulations or laws are you referring to with regards to limitations on the duration of a contract?
The 3G hasn't been unlocked yet, right?
Define unlocked. Do you mean jailbroken so as to install 3rd party apps without going to the App Store, or do you mean SIM unlocked.
Yes to the first, and no to the second.
But that iPhone price was for a locked phone. Add at least $200 for an unlocked price, assuming a hypothetical one was made available here through Apple.
Apple did not charge a penny more for the locking option on an iPhone 1.0.
You walk into an apple store, hand them the asking price for the phone, and walk out.
You keep it locked, or unlock it yourself for ...... free?
Apple did not stop you from unlocking it.
They didn't charge you anything to allow it to be unlocked.
Your dumb-ass price of 200 bucks make you just sound like a fool.
Note to the world.
I'll unlock any iPhone 1.0 for half this knuckle-heads price.
Any takers? No? Right. Because Apple sold you their phone
by just walking in, going up to the counter and saying "Give me one please".
Sign nothing.
Comit to nothing.
Walk out.
Unlock it or activate it locked at home.
Let's see you do THAT with all the other phones you guys have been talking about.
Stop blaming Apple for problems with the cell phone industry.
Apple has already changed the business so much you can't recognize it.
Within two years, the changes will be even bigger.
200 bucks to unlock your iPhone when anyone can do it?
You're an idiot.
Apple did not charge a penny more for the locking option on an iPhone 1.0.
You walk into an apple store, hand them the asking price for the phone, and walk out.
You keep it locked, or unlock it yourself for ...... free?
You need to roll back on your personal attacks.
Not for free. While the up-front unlock cost may be free, there is a trade-off that you aren't acknowledging. Try getting warranty support if Apple finds it's been hacked. If the screen stops responding to touch, a button dies, and they find the phone is hacked, then you may very well be SOL.
What I mean is first party unlocked, sold as unlocked from the maker, which was quite a bit more expensive in Belgium and France.
As I understand it, there are quite a few third party unlocks for most phones. Apple isn't really special here. In fact, AT&T will unlock a phone for an account in good standing after a certain period, but the iPhone is specifically excluded from that policy.
(multiple personal attacks on posters removed - JL)
Your personal attacks aside, Apple didn't unlock your iPhone for you in the US, it had to be cracked by exploiting holes in the firmware. Nor did Apple consent to you buying an iPhone and unlocking it yourself to use with a different carrier, they just short-sidedly assumed that this wouldn't be an issue.
After the popularity of the iPhone was to known to them outside the country Apple put limits on the number you could buy (even after the demand had subsidised) and required a state ID and US credit card to complete the sale. No cash! This was all in an attempt to help insure getting paid the full price for the handset. For the 3G iPhone it is rumoured they had to rewrite the contract with AT&T to allow for a typical subsidisation model so they wouldn't lose money from unlocked, non-activated iPhones.
Granted, they couldn't stop you from doing it and won't be able to stop it from happening to the 3G model once the iPhone Dev Team figures out how to unlock it but they have learned their financailly costly lesson and are no longer allowing a "good faith" signup with AT&T.
The unlocked phones that were sold in Germany and France were at least $200 more than the ones locked to the carrier.
Apple did not charge a penny more for the locking option on an iPhone 1.0.
You walk into an apple store, hand them the asking price for the phone, and walk out.
You keep it locked, or unlock it yourself for ...... free?
Apple did not stop you from unlocking it.
They didn't charge you anything to allow it to be unlocked.
Your dumb-ass price of 200 bucks make you just sound like a fool.
Note to the world.
I'll unlock any iPhone 1.0 for half this knuckle-heads price.
Any takers? No? Right. Because Apple sold you their phone
by just walking in, going up to the counter and saying "Give me one please".
Sign nothing.
Comit to nothing.
Walk out.
Unlock it or activate it locked at home.
Let's see you do THAT with all the other phones you guys have been talking about.
Stop blaming Apple for problems with the cell phone industry.
Apple has already changed the business so much you can't recognize it.
Within two years, the changes will be even bigger.
200 bucks to unlock your iPhone when anyone can do it?
You're an idiot.
WOW!!!!!!!!
All this because JeffDM has his own opinion??? Looks like someone needs anger management classes with the quickness.
Technically as far as I am concerned Apple is preventing me from unlocking it because they did not provide me with the unlock code. Thus, they are part of the problem, not the solution.
WOW!!!!!!!!
All this because JeffDM has his own opinion??? Looks like someone needs anger management classes with the quickness.
Technically as far as I am concerned Apple is preventing me from unlocking it because they did not provide me with the unlock code. Thus, they are part of the problem, not the solution.
It seems as though things are moving in the other direction. I can understand the original motive both AT&T and Apple had for this. Mostly AT&T.
But as more companies in more countries get the phone, there will be much less reason for a lock. It will likely never go away completely.
But, it's really up to governments to decide what should be done.
It seems as though things are moving in the other direction. I can understand the original motive both AT&T and Apple had for this. Mostly AT&T.
But as more companies in more countries get the phone, there will be much less reason for a lock. It will likely never go away completely.
But, it's really up to governments to decide what should be done.
We know the AT&T contract is up in 2010. By that point LTE will be rolling out. Once Verizon and T-Mobile have that technology I believe they will get the iPhone.
Verizon's business model goes against the iPhone though. Along with expensive data services, Verizon charges $9.99 for GPS and now $2.99 for visual voicemail. Both of which come included on AT&T.
We know the AT&T contract is up in 2010. By that point LTE will be rolling out. Once Verizon and T-Mobile have that technology I believe they will get the iPhone.
I wouldn't expect to see LTE up and running in the US on AT&T and especially not on T-Mobile in 2010. We don't even have networks or cell radios that can utilize HSPA+ in the US.
The natural progression of this will see an advance in other countries first and then then a start in the US (probably among Verizon) with USB and ExpressCards that can handle the extra power consumption and processing needs of these faster networks. As it is now, The iPhone, as power as it is, isn't fast enough to handle the fastest HSDPA download or HSUPA upload speeds.
Verizon's business model goes against the iPhone though. Along with expensive data services, Verizon charges $9.99 for GPS and now $2.99 for visual voicemail. Both of which come included on AT&T.
They do nickle and dime you, and until recently they were the most offensive US carrier in terms of crippling your device's native firmware. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing they will have no choice but to offer these options free as part of a data plan as phones and networks get more advanced.
We know the AT&T contract is up in 2010. By that point LTE will be rolling out. Once Verizon and T-Mobile have that technology I believe they will get the iPhone.
Verizon's business model goes against the iPhone though. Along with expensive data services, Verizon charges $9.99 for GPS and now $2.99 for visual voicemail. Both of which come included on AT&T.
That's true, but a lot of carriers have offered plans they didn't offer before, many with much cheaper online services than before. When this happens, it's possible that Verison won't be charging for that all. Who knows?
A bit of time ago, the cheapest data plan Verison had was for $45 a month. That's changed.
I wouldn't expect to see LTE up and running in the US on AT&T and especially not on T-Mobile in 2010. We don't even have networks or cell radios that can utilize HSPA+ in the US.
I just meant LTE will be around in general. Not so much that US wireless will have it by that time. Even though AT&T and Verizon seem confident they will start a roll out by that point.
That's true, but a lot of carriers have offered plans they didn't offer before, many with much cheaper online services than before. When this happens, it's possible that Verison won't be charging for that all. Who knows?
That seems most logical.
There is no such thing as a 100% GPS. There is propagation, interference, and a host of other things that is well out of Apples hands. I have a Garmin GPSMap 60CSx, and a Garmin Colorado 300. Both are considered top of the line in consumer GPS devices and they only give about 3 meter accuracy. So, you are hoping for something that will never happen. Apple might include turn by turn navigation but this too is generally approximate.
it's not even close to accurate it's always behind and it skips while moving across the map where as a tom tom slides smooth and accuratly
it's not even close to accurate it's always behind and it skips while moving across the map where as a tom tom slides smooth and accuratly
The antenna in your Tom Tom is much bigger and it's designed for use while driving. Cell phones have the benefit of utilising A-GPS but they tend to be smaller and have GPS as only a feature, not as it's main purpose for being.
You need to roll back on your personal attacks.
Not for free. While the up-front unlock cost may be free, there is a trade-off that you aren't acknowledging. Try getting warranty support if Apple finds it's been hacked. If the screen stops responding to touch, a button dies, and they find the phone is hacked, then you may very well be SOL.
What I mean is first party unlocked, sold as unlocked from the maker, which was quite a bit more expensive in Belgium and France.
As I understand it, there are quite a few third party unlocks for most phones. Apple isn't really special here. In fact, AT&T will unlock a phone for an account in good standing after a certain period, but the iPhone is specifically excluded from that policy.
You're the guy complaining the touch didn't work on mobile phone networks.... right?
Ok.
<Not for free. While the up-front unlock cost may be free, there is a trade-off that you aren't acknowledging. >
Excuse me, Apple had one price.
You walk in the store, you pay that price and you walk out.
You didn't need to pay ANYTHING to unlock it, Apple didn't try to make a PENNY from you if you wanted it unlocked.
Get a clue.
<Try getting warranty support if Apple finds it's been hacked. If the screen stops responding to touch, a button dies, and they find the phone is hacked, then you may very well be SOL.>
All you need to do is reset it, and it's back to normal.
What part of this are you having trouble with?
It's a phone.
It's sold in a computer store.
People been buying them and making their own choice to run it on a supported network or use it the way they want on an unsupported network.
Same as so many other phones that you don't want to notice do excatly the same thing.
This is really just silly fud bashing.
A lot of people can't get over that Apple controls their OS experience, software downloaded, and the relationship with the carrier.
This isn't really any different than most other premier handsets.
I mean really, you want to do a comparison of the Instinct and how to move it to other networks or what it's warrenty is? (LOL)
<What I mean is first party unlocked, sold as unlocked from the maker, which was quite a bit more expensive in Belgium and France.>
You live there?
You want to compare the Sony experience differences between the U.S. market and each country around the world? Let's keep it real. You can't focus on problems here and then bring up countries that have crazy differences in how hardware can be sold and tarrifs.
<As I understand it, there are quite a few third party unlocks for most phones. Apple isn't really special here. In fact, AT&T will unlock a phone for an account in good standing after a certain period, but the iPhone is specifically excluded from that policy.>
I don't get it.
You're complaining about AT&T's policy about unlocking the phone?
That's it?
Again, you could've walked in to Apple, bought an iPhone for ZERO dollars extract, (that's 200 dollars less than your FUD quote) and walked out without a contract on any carrier.
You could then unlock it and run it anywhere you want.
While you want to use a 200 dollar fee for an unlocked phone comparison, a million people unlocked their iPhone and ran it just fine. Get over it.
WOW!!!!!!!!
All this because JeffDM has his own opinion??? Looks like someone needs anger management classes with the quickness.
Technically as far as I am concerned Apple is preventing me from unlocking it because they did not provide me with the unlock code. Thus, they are part of the problem, not the solution.
His opinion was that an unlocked iPhone had a cost of 200 dollars more, and blamed Apple for it. Jeese..... the iPhone is a computer with a cell capability in it.
The Touch is a computer without a cell capability in it.
You could have unlocked the cell capability yourself.
If you don't understand the difference between a cell phone, and a hand held computer, or you can't handle running software on a computer to do things like unlock a capability, then people should probably stick to flip-phones.
But people are so wildly jeolous of the iPone experience, and upset they can't get it on their own carrier, they need to chill.
If you don't like it, don't buy it.
But don't blame Apple because the Touch can't use a cell tower and don't pretend Apple charged 200 dollars to sell you an unlocked phone.
I used Motorolla phones that they controlled.
Everybody moaned about it.
Moaning isn't new.
And crackers have been cracking systems for a long time.
If you think this stuff isn't normal run of the mill stuff, let me know how that Instinct is working for ya on the Verizon network.....
His opinion was that an unlocked iPhone had a cost of 200 dollars more, and blamed Apple for it.
I didn't say or do that, you missed my meaning or just took me out of context. Whether you are doing it deliberately, accidentally or subconsciously, what you are doing is a strawman argument. Read it, spin/misunderstand it, then attack me based on the spin or misunderstanding. If you are applying to work for a political campaign, put me down as a reference, you seem to have the attack dog political style down.
I didn't say or do that, you missed my meaning or just took me out of context. Whether you are doing it deliberately, accidentally or subconsciously, what you are doing is a strawman argument. Read it, spin/misunderstand it, then attack me based on the spin or misunderstanding. If you are applying to work for a political campaign, put me down as a reference, you seem to have the attack dog political style down.
LOL, good come back. You bitch-slapped him around there!