It means actually what it reads, it is bad that you have to perform a hack to be able to install a program, to give you sort of tethering. It is not standard DUN.
Sending phones in for repair is not rare, if you haven't needed to do it at some point, doesn't meant that no body else has.
1) Why not focus on on one argument at a time?! You said that a comparison of network speeds using the browser couldn't be done and I told you it could. This was page loading so why change the topic to well to it requiring a hack or a no longer available app? That is a completely different discussion.
2) Sure, things need to be repaired from time to time, but if you are going to jailbreak your iPhone you can just as easily un-jailbreak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
Remember there is a world outside the USA. Remember Apple said they were going to break the way network providers, and manufactures worked, they dropped and did what AT&T wanted within seconds, and have stuffed up the rest of the work in the process.
1) It should be obvious I am aware of the outside world as I specifically mentioned AT&T and did not lump all carriers together as not allowing this app.
2) And they tried it. If they did what AT&T wanted "within a second" they would ahve never done it to begin with. It seemed to work well for AT&T as they didn't have to pay up front for the handsets and it's reported that Apple had to extend the agreement an extra year to move away from revenue sharing into a typical subsidisation model.
3) One, the reason for the change is so Apple could sell more devices at a lower price (on of the biggest complaints despite much slower phones, with little Flash and smaller, less resolution screens costing more than the original iPhone. But seems to be Apple's backup plan, as there are plenty of reports from many countries and many carriers that would not do revenue sharing. Regardless, Apple has changed things for the better of the consumer just being in the game.
3G on the iPhone, when you've got it, delivers 2x and much much more.
This woman is a venomous money sucker.
She's not thinking how she can get a better product, though.
She's just seeing $$$ in her eyes.
Give me a break. Anyone who watches these sorts of class action lawsuits knows that if you win you don't get a ton of cash. Just look at the ipod battery suit.
And as someone who works with mobile phones for a living, I can tell you I can place half a dozen 3G phones next to an iPhone 3G in many locations, and watch the iPhone 3G have 1 bar while the rest are full.
Additionally, this is not true of 1 iPhone 3G, but several, as we are working on iPhone software, as well.
It's the typical rate in the US for a soft 5GB/unlimited limit. I always far exceed 5GB in the 4 or 5 days that I use it. I use my iPhone daily and don't recall every exceeding 5GB. I don't think the price is outrageous when I pay for $60/month for cabled internet, too. Cure it's faster, but it's also cheaper to run and maintain. Not allowing tethering, while annoying, also makes sense as you are paying less money for the data service. I average about 6x as much data on my Mac with AT&T than I do with the iPhone but I only pay 2x as much.
Hypothetically, if AT&T were required by law to allow tethering for all phones with data packages they would just jack up the price of the data portion to compensate.
You pay $60 a month for cable internet?!?! You should really look into something else - DSL, UVerse, FIOS, anything, $60 a month is total crap... Maybe if you only paid $30 a month for cable internet you wouldn't think $60 for low level DSL speeds is a decent deal.
You pay $60 a month for cable internet?!?! You should really look into something else - DSL, UVerse, FIOS, anything, $60 a month is total crap... Maybe if you only paid $30 a month for cable internet you wouldn't think $60 for low level DSL speeds is a decent deal.
Yeah, I do. FIOS isn't available in my area and DSL won't give me 15Mbps down. I have no idea what the "low-level DSL speeds" comes from.
The real money waster is the money I pay for cable TV, not what I pay AT&T as I need my AirCard to connect at times. If you think it's too much, what other option do you suggest for connecting my Mac when I'm not at home (which is 95% of the time), the hotel wants >$20 for 24 hours and Im not near an open wifi hotspot?
1) Why not focus on on one argument at a time?! You said that a comparison of network speeds using the browser couldn't be done and I told you it could. This was page loading so why change the topic to well to it requiring a hack or a no longer available app? That is a completely different discussion.
I don't class a hack as a valid comparision
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
2) Sure, things need to be repaired from time to time, but if you are going to jailbreak your iPhone you can just as easily un-jailbreak.
Then you are back to the agrument as to why you should have to hack your phone to be able to do something as simple as installing applications you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
1) It should be obvious I am aware of the outside world as I specifically mentioned AT&T and did not lump all carriers together as not allowing this app.
If it is only AT&T moaning about this, why was the feature left out of the phone in the first place... It's not like Apple doesn't know how to handle it, they support it in OS X now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
3) One, the reason for the change is so Apple could sell more devices at a lower price (on of the biggest complaints despite much slower phones, with little Flash and smaller, less resolution screens costing more than the original iPhone. But seems to be Apple's backup plan, as there are plenty of reports from many countries and many carriers that would not do revenue sharing. Regardless, Apple has changed things for the better of the consumer just being in the game.
What has Apple changed for the consumer? Rate plans - no, more flexiblility - no, things are exactly the same as before they started
I would far rather buy an iPhone at full price, and have it unlocked, and not tied to the over priced plans that a lot of the providers are giving
It's the typical rate in the US for a soft 5GB/unlimited limit. I always far exceed 5GB in the 4 or 5 days that I use it. I use my iPhone daily and don't recall every exceeding 5GB. I don't think the price is outrageous when I pay for $60/month for cabled internet, too. Cure it's faster, but it's also cheaper to run and maintain. Not allowing tethering, while annoying, also makes sense as you are paying less money for the data service. I average about 6x as much data on my Mac with AT&T than I do with the iPhone but I only pay 2x as much.
Hypothetically, if AT&T were required by law to allow tethering for all phones with data packages they would just jack up the price of the data portion to compensate.
Just got my Rogers' bill. From July 17 to Aug 12, used a whopping 44.2 Mbs!
Of course, I work in environments that with Wi-Fi, and only use my iPhone mostly for phoning and fooling around with the GPS and Speedbox (about 20 minutes/day) in the car. Actually used it more lately to measure network speeds. Turns out my 3g is getting up to ten times Edge at times and Wi-Fi just blows those away. We get 9MBS down for $30 a month and virtually instant service 24/7 (local IPS) here.
Just ran iNetwork Test. Edge, 67; 3G, 283; Wi-Fi,3213 kbs. Just getting a little bar. If I walk up to the corner it jumps to max. Live in a ravine on the moraine.
Overall, very pleased with everything. MobileMe working perfectly once I figured out how to set preferences properly.
What is wrong with using a jailbroken iPhone to do the PC browser test comparison? You still get the results with the phone browsers being taken out of the equation as you first suggested. I think you are purposely being obtuse.
Quote:
Then you are back to the agrument as to why you should have to hack your phone to be able to do something as simple as installing applications you want.
I haven't argued as to the why, that is all you. But that has no bearing on my reply to you saying that you shouldn't jailbreak your device because there is a rare possibility that you may have to take it in for repairs. My rebuttal was that you can un-jailbreak just as easily. Technically it's easier to un-jailbreak that it is to jailbreak, but I didn't want to split hairs.
Quote:
If it is only AT&T moaning about this, why was the feature left out of the phone in the first place... It's not like Apple doesn't know how to handle it, they support it in OS X now.
How does that statement make any sense? AT&T was the first and only carrier on board with Apple when the iPhone was announced so AT&T would be the primary carrier who would a problem with tethering. Besides that, Apple supports a lot of things on Mac OS X that they don't on the iPhone. Now I know you are purposely trying to be obtuse.
Quote:
What has Apple changed for the consumer? Rate plans - no, more flexiblility - no, things are exactly the same as before they started
For starters cellphone data plans in the US have been cut in half since the iPhone's arrival. This could very well be a coincidence, but I tend not to believe in coincidences. Secondly, the stagnant product lines are now being revamped to compete with the cell phone.
Secondly, in the US every major carrier will have their own "iPhone-killer" this year with a large high-res interface, multi-touch capabilities w/ virtual keyboard, significant Flash capacity increases, and most will have WiFi included. In other words, they are making they are beefing up the HW. They've also revamping the interface to be more user friendly and to focus on the consumer wants like multimedia and web browsing.
Nokia has bought a Spanish design team and is teaming up Mozilla to port FF to Qt. On top of that, Nokia's VP's has publicly stated that they now see they need focus more on the software and Nokia even has a video of their iPhone clone demo.
There is also RiM who is adopting WebKit as their browser and will be releasing the Thunder in 7 weeks which is the first handheld that will reportedly have comparable CPU speed as that of the iPhone. If you don't know, it's a device that no BB user would have thought the business-oriented company would make even after the iPhone was released.
Android will be following Apple with their own centralised App Store and I'm certain others will eventually do the same with their own centralised App Stores and notification servers for non-ActoveSync data.
Quote:
I would far rather buy an iPhone at full price, and have it unlocked, and not tied to the over priced plans that a lot of the providers are giving
No one is stopping you from doing that. There are eBay seller and overseas websites that are selling them unlocked. There are even countries that require them to be sold unlocked or unlocked after a certain time. I don't know what country you are in (I'm not even sure what planet you are j/k) but they can be had. If you are in the US and don't travel out of the country then there is no reason to have it unlocked as AT&T is the only game in town, but you can buy it free and clear without any contract lock-in for a total of about $600 for the 16GB model after a month, which is less than the $700 they will be selling it for once the surge dies down.
What is wrong with using a jailbroken iPhone to do the PC browser test comparison? You still get the results with the phone browsers being taken out of the equation as you first suggested. I think you are purposely being obtuse.
As it is not the "out of the box" phone is it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
How does that statement make any sense? AT&T was the first and only carrier on board with Apple when the iPhone was announced so AT&T would be the primary carrier who would a problem with tethering. Besides that, Apple supports a lot of things on Mac OS X that they don't on the iPhone. Now I know you are purposely trying to be obtuse.
No I'm not. As far as mobile markets go, the US is backwards, and for Apple to set their standards based on the US, then it makes them backwards as well.
I wasn't referring to OS X as a whole, I was referring to mobile interaction
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
For starters cellphone data plans in the US have been cut in half since the iPhone's arrival. This could very well be a coincidence, but I tend not to believe in coincidences. Secondly, the stagnant product lines are now being revamped to compete with the cell phone.
There lays the issue. I don't live in the US, I live in Ireland, and there is been no different what so ever here. O2 and Vodafone are still overpriced for data, 3 are still ok.
Maybe you are noticing a change because the US is starting to catch up with other countries?
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism;1296439
Nokia has bought a Spanish design team and is teaming up Mozilla to port FF to Qt. On top of that, Nokia's VP's has publicly stated that they now see they need focus more on the software and Nokia even has a[URL="http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/29/nokias-iphone-no-seriously/";
video[/URL] of their iPhone clone demo.
Nokia has been working on Mozilla and portable devices for quite a while, I have been using it on my N800 for a long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
No one is stopping you from doing that. There are eBay seller and overseas websites that are selling them unlocked. There are even countries that require them to be sold unlocked or unlocked after a certain time. I don't know what country you are in (I'm not even sure what planet you are j/k) but they can be had. If you are in the US and don't travel out of the country then there is no reason to have it unlocked as AT&T is the only game in town, but you can buy it free and clear without any contract lock-in for a total of about $600 for the 16GB model after a month, which is less than the $700 they will be selling it for once the surge dies down.
The countries that are selling them unlocked, are selling them very expensive, more than I am willing to pay for one. and, personally, I wouldn't buy things off ebay
Maybe Apple should drop their contract with AT&T and jump on over to verizon, their network is rock solid. I'm sure there would be a hellava lot less complaints and lawsuits for that matter.
Fight the lawsuit to the death Apple, don't let these idiots who don't know how to use technology take you down.
HA HA HA. Verizon is rock solid? Get a clue. If Verizon was the carrier for the iPhone, those pricks would disable all the features and try and charge you to browse your own address book! I know plenty of people that dropped Verizon for crappy service, dropped calls, and no signal.
Let's face it, all the cellular carriers suck in the US.
This stupid shit is trying to sue Apple for something they have no control over, nor did they ever try to claim full coverage for AT&T's network. I am sure this idiot would have the same coverage issues with ANY brand of phone.
You clearly stated, "So maybe tethering both devices to a notebook and performing some tests could help determining the network speed of both devices." You keep changing the argument to "Apple=bad" when this is about the network speed using the same browser.
Quote:
As far as mobile markets go, the US is backwards, and for Apple to set their standards based on the US, then it makes them backwards as well.
Yes you are, which I am not going to respond anymore these posts as the only more foolish that a fool is the one who argues with one.
Quote:
I wasn't referring to OS X as a whole, I was referring to mobile interaction
So your general, all encompassing statement was really just meant to refer to only things that support your POV and to exclude all relevant aspects of Mac OS X that don't support your POV.
Quote:
There lays the issue. I don't live in the US, I live in Ireland, and there is been no different what so ever here. O2 and Vodafone are still overpriced for data, 3 are still ok.
First off, nice use of lays, that phrasing is usually written incorrectly. Secondly, I'm aware of the crappie plans for Ireland. O2 in the UK doesn't have such bad plans but you are all getting the shaft. But is only for plans, not for new products that will be coming to all countries with a high GDP because of the iPhone.
Oh yeah, I forget to mention that the iPhone has increase interest in smartphone sales in general (can't find link) . Assuming you already have a smartphone this means that there will be more focus on these devices from manufactures which will benefit you.
Quote:
Maybe you are noticing a change because the US is starting to catch up with other countries?
I'd agree that the US is seeing the most change from the iPhone's introduction, but I wouldn't agree that it's the only country with change. Maybe you are noticing a change because you live in Ireland?
Quote:
Nokia has been working on Mozilla and portable devices for quite a while, I have been using it on my N800 for a long time.
That wasn't officially until 6 months after the iPhone launched, but since it replaced Opera I won't argue that point. It does use the Gecko engine which is nice, but it does have some major limitations, too, and is only for the N800 and N810, which aren't cellphones. The FF port using Qt will add a lot of features and efficiency that aren't/won't be available for MicroB. Plus, it will be available for cellphones and I'm guessing it will be replacing WebKit on S60. I think that is a bad move on Nokia's part since WebKit is already ported, is a proven effective on a mobile platform and has a faster engine than Gecko which becomes more important on slower devices. On the other hand, I understand Nokia's decision to move away from an Apple sponsored product, even if it is open source.
Quote:
The countries that are selling them unlocked, are selling them very expensive, more than I am willing to pay for one. and, personally, I wouldn't buy things off ebay
They are but that them are the breaks. I wish there was another carrier with UTMS in the US so I could at least have an option to jump ship from AT&T. I also wish that an software unlock for the iPhone 3G comes out soon so I can sell the 2 extra ones that I have.
How much are they compared to other unlocked, contract-free phones with 8GB Flash? How much is the Nokia N96 going to be?
Yeah, I do. FIOS isn't available in my area and DSL won't give me 15Mbps down. I have no idea what the "low-level DSL speeds" comes from.
The real money waster is the money I pay for cable TV, not what I pay AT&T as I need my AirCard to connect at times. If you think it's too much, what other option do you suggest for connecting my Mac when I'm not at home (which is 95% of the time), the hotel wants >$20 for 24 hours and Im not near an open wifi hotspot?
I meant the speeds you get from AT&T's 3G network are equivalent to low-level DSL speeds (1.5Mbps) - at least that's been my experience with the Verizon 3G card I have at home (it's for work - I wouldn't buy Verizon if I had a choice )
well, I guess if you really need 15 then 60 isn't bad but, out of curiosity, what are you doing that you *need* 15 down?
here are the legal caveats for apple's 3g representations... you could drive a LARGE truck through these... we'll see - there may be a false advertising claim outside of a class action breach claim:
Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2008 using preproduction 3G/EDGE-capable iPhone units and software and currently shipping EDGE-capable iPhone units and software. Testing was conducted by browsing to http://www.lonelyplanet.com and measured uncached page load performance. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks and Auto-Brightness were turned off. Wi-Fi was enabled but not associated with a network. Throughput depends on the cellular network, location, signal strength, 3G/EDGE connectivity, feature configuration, usage, the Internet, and many other factors. Throughput tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.
THANKS!
Has anyone tested their 3G without auto-brightness on? Had not even considered (hey, I'm a tech savvy lightweight) this would/could impact performance? Comments? Possible?
Edit:
Just did an informal test switching between 3G and Edge with AutoB & wifi off, AutoB & wifi on, AutoB on & wifi off). Then repeated the process twice just to see what happened re. loading one page from my bookmarks. Time ranged from 11 seconds to 17 seconds (full load equals the moment Safari stops loading, not when page first shows up on screen). First load with 3G was 14 seconds, second test was 11 seconds. Nothing conclusive.
I just went to http://i.dslr.net/tinyspeedtest.html to test out my speed using various methods. What I like about the site is that it lists today's and all time stats for the various connection type. Note: this is just for iPhone users and one can fudge the stats by choosing an incorrect connection type but it does give some information as what one may expect.
Tests were done in on the first floor of a 4 story hotel about 20 feet from the closest exterior wall while being held in my hand. All tests were completed 3x to get the mean average.
My Stats:
EDGE ..210kbps
HSDPA 1.15Mbps
Stats:.. .All Time . . . . .Today
GPRS .. 40kbps/1535ms . . 32kbps/1941ms
EDGE . 143kbps/ 873ms . .144kbps/ 836ms
3G .. .724kbps/ 446ms . .723kbps/ 435ms
WiFi .2.39Mbps/ 163ms . 2.24Mbps/ 164ms
. . . . .(speed/latency)
That is an average of 5x faster.
Thank you - always enjoy reading your posts. Does autobright on/off make ANY difference in speeds? Seems like it would only affect battery life.
I thought I had read somewhere on CNet that it would be somewhere in the mid 400 range. Then it just comes down to the RAM and browser (let's just assume same network, same connection since the network isn't really the point of the argument) and I'd bet my lunch (half a box of pasta ) that Apple's Safari renders pages much quicker than BB's implementation on the Thunder.
The other differance that should benifit the iphone is the OS: Blackberry is Java based, which is slow, in my experiance, whereas the iphone is compiled c/objC on top of BSD...that means it is pretty much built for speed
Win or lose what do you think will be the reputation hit that Apple suffers. People will hardly remember that the case was dismissed or even care if Apple wins. They will remember how a perception was created that Apple sold a defective product. This is the real damage.
all i hear is how jobs plans on doing something about the app problem. i wish he would address the dropped call problem in NYC. the iphone is supposed to be a phone so why doesnt he address the fact it drops calls more than any other phone using the at&t network. all my coworkers use blackberries, no problem. i cant even explain how frustrated i am regarding dropped calls that have affected my business. jobs should be addressing reception before apps. dont get me wrong the iphone is a great toy but if the phone doesnt work its nothing but a toy.. word of mouth will chew at apples core. everyone who has seen my problems changed thier mind about buying into a trend. hopefully someone at apple reads this, do whats right and fix the problem, otherwise the businesses they are marketing to with push outlook will turn there head to rimm and ruin there reputation. by the way the newest update didn't do anthing about dropped calls. im siiting in my apt. in manhattan and my phone went from 5 bars to none resulting in an updated dropped call. word of mouth is going to take its toll on appls bottom line
I'd like to see Apple come out with a iPhone ? period!
- No downloading games
- No surfing the internet
- No watching YouTube
- No checking my stocks (of which I have several shares of Apple )
- No downloading emails
- No sending of emails
Just a ficking phone. I'm sure if they did that, the iPhone would have NO complaints against it.
Christ - all the shit it does, no wonder it isn't perfect.
Folks, get ready for the iPhone to get a whole hell of a lot bigger - if you want a small desktop unit. Now on the other hand if you want a phone ? get ready, Apple will be announcing one, that is just that
Skip
PS Is that person suing their internet company when the speeds of the computers at home, goes to slow?
Wi-Fi tests in home office set in ravine lot. Edge and 3G tests were done across the street while being held in my hand. All tests were completed 3x to get the mean average.
My Stats:
EDGE ...126kbps
3G .... 1.411Mbps
WiFi . .3.347Mbps
Stats:.. ..All Time . . .. . .Today
GPRS ... 39kbps/1164ms ... 36kbps/11701ms
EDGE .. 142kbps/863ms . .. 131kbps/292ms
3G ....7738kbps/4429ms ....778kbps/396ms
WiFi ..2.44Mbps/159ms ... 2.35Mbps/160ms
. . . . .(speed/latency)That is an average of 10x faster.
Word is that our carrier has capped 3G and is gradually increasing the speed as the system proves that it can accommodate the growth. Based on tests I ran soon after purchase and today, it would appear to confirm the capping.
As I posted previously, my data usage for the first invoice period, i.e., July 17 to Aug.13, was a whopping 42.3 MBs.
Happily, my work/developing/teaching/consulting services is mostly done in a Wi-Fi environment. Data usage otherwise has been primarily restricted to travelling using GPS apps and testing network speeds.
Based on my usage, it would seem that Rogers was correct using AT&Ts reported average data usage of its users at 100MBs/month as a guide for its pricing structure. I personally don't see how I could consume 6Gbs in a month.
I would also like to bring to the attention of fellow Rogers customers, that the normal charger for data usage roaming in the US is regularly 3¢/kb ($30/MBs) However, iPhone uses get a reduction, i.e., 0.06¢/kb ($6/MBs) Still not as good as Wi-Fi, but still a significant reduction.
Wi-Fi tests in home office set in ravine lot. Edge and 3G tests were done across the street while being held in my hand. All tests were completed 3x to get the mean average.
[SIZE="3"]
[FONT="Courier New"]My Stats:
EDGE ...126kbps
3G .... 1.411Mbps
WiFi . .3.347Mbps
That is an average of 10x faster.
Word is that our carrier has capped 3G and is gradually increasing the speed as the system proves that it can accommodate the growth. Based on tests I ran soon after purchase and today, it would appear to confirm the capping.
As I posted previously, my data usage for the first invoice period, i.e., July 17 to Aug.13, was a whopping 42.3 MBs.
Happily, my work/developing/teaching/consulting services is mostly done in a Wi-Fi environment. Data usage otherwise has been primarily restricted to travelling using GPS apps and testing network speeds.
Based on my usage, it would seem that Rogers was correct using AT&Ts reported average data usage of its users at 100MBs/month as a guide for its pricing structure. I personally don't see how I could consume 6Gbs in a month.
I would also like to bring to the attention of fellow Rogers customers, that the normal charger for data usage roaming in the US is regularly 30¢/kb ($30/MBs) However, iPhone uses get a reduction, i.e., 06¢/kb ($6/MBs) Still not as good as Wi-Fi, but still a significant reduction.
I wonder what the plantiff was getting. I have doubts that she actually tested her phone.
I wouldn't have thought Rogers' 3G speeds would be so high. The US data roaming is interesting as I see no reason why Rogers would even need to make prices cheaper in the US, especially that much cheaper. I wonder if Apple had any influence there. That is a huge drop; only 20% of the amount all the other phones pay, and they don't have the iPhone's browser or apps.
Comments
It means actually what it reads, it is bad that you have to perform a hack to be able to install a program, to give you sort of tethering. It is not standard DUN.
Sending phones in for repair is not rare, if you haven't needed to do it at some point, doesn't meant that no body else has.
1) Why not focus on on one argument at a time?! You said that a comparison of network speeds using the browser couldn't be done and I told you it could. This was page loading so why change the topic to well to it requiring a hack or a no longer available app? That is a completely different discussion.
2) Sure, things need to be repaired from time to time, but if you are going to jailbreak your iPhone you can just as easily un-jailbreak.
Remember there is a world outside the USA. Remember Apple said they were going to break the way network providers, and manufactures worked, they dropped and did what AT&T wanted within seconds, and have stuffed up the rest of the work in the process.
1) It should be obvious I am aware of the outside world as I specifically mentioned AT&T and did not lump all carriers together as not allowing this app.
2) And they tried it. If they did what AT&T wanted "within a second" they would ahve never done it to begin with. It seemed to work well for AT&T as they didn't have to pay up front for the handsets and it's reported that Apple had to extend the agreement an extra year to move away from revenue sharing into a typical subsidisation model.
3) One, the reason for the change is so Apple could sell more devices at a lower price (on of the biggest complaints despite much slower phones, with little Flash and smaller, less resolution screens costing more than the original iPhone. But seems to be Apple's backup plan, as there are plenty of reports from many countries and many carriers that would not do revenue sharing. Regardless, Apple has changed things for the better of the consumer just being in the game.
3G on the iPhone, when you've got it, delivers 2x and much much more.
This woman is a venomous money sucker.
She's not thinking how she can get a better product, though.
She's just seeing $$$ in her eyes.
Give me a break. Anyone who watches these sorts of class action lawsuits knows that if you win you don't get a ton of cash. Just look at the ipod battery suit.
And as someone who works with mobile phones for a living, I can tell you I can place half a dozen 3G phones next to an iPhone 3G in many locations, and watch the iPhone 3G have 1 bar while the rest are full.
Additionally, this is not true of 1 iPhone 3G, but several, as we are working on iPhone software, as well.
It's the typical rate in the US for a soft 5GB/unlimited limit. I always far exceed 5GB in the 4 or 5 days that I use it. I use my iPhone daily and don't recall every exceeding 5GB. I don't think the price is outrageous when I pay for $60/month for cabled internet, too. Cure it's faster, but it's also cheaper to run and maintain. Not allowing tethering, while annoying, also makes sense as you are paying less money for the data service. I average about 6x as much data on my Mac with AT&T than I do with the iPhone but I only pay 2x as much.
Hypothetically, if AT&T were required by law to allow tethering for all phones with data packages they would just jack up the price of the data portion to compensate.
You pay $60 a month for cable internet?!?! You should really look into something else - DSL, UVerse, FIOS, anything, $60 a month is total crap... Maybe if you only paid $30 a month for cable internet you wouldn't think $60 for low level DSL speeds is a decent deal.
You pay $60 a month for cable internet?!?! You should really look into something else - DSL, UVerse, FIOS, anything, $60 a month is total crap... Maybe if you only paid $30 a month for cable internet you wouldn't think $60 for low level DSL speeds is a decent deal.
Yeah, I do. FIOS isn't available in my area and DSL won't give me 15Mbps down. I have no idea what the "low-level DSL speeds" comes from.
The real money waster is the money I pay for cable TV, not what I pay AT&T as I need my AirCard to connect at times. If you think it's too much, what other option do you suggest for connecting my Mac when I'm not at home (which is 95% of the time), the hotel wants >$20 for 24 hours and Im not near an open wifi hotspot?
1) Why not focus on on one argument at a time?! You said that a comparison of network speeds using the browser couldn't be done and I told you it could. This was page loading so why change the topic to well to it requiring a hack or a no longer available app? That is a completely different discussion.
I don't class a hack as a valid comparision
2) Sure, things need to be repaired from time to time, but if you are going to jailbreak your iPhone you can just as easily un-jailbreak.
Then you are back to the agrument as to why you should have to hack your phone to be able to do something as simple as installing applications you want.
1) It should be obvious I am aware of the outside world as I specifically mentioned AT&T and did not lump all carriers together as not allowing this app.
If it is only AT&T moaning about this, why was the feature left out of the phone in the first place... It's not like Apple doesn't know how to handle it, they support it in OS X now.
3) One, the reason for the change is so Apple could sell more devices at a lower price (on of the biggest complaints despite much slower phones, with little Flash and smaller, less resolution screens costing more than the original iPhone. But seems to be Apple's backup plan, as there are plenty of reports from many countries and many carriers that would not do revenue sharing. Regardless, Apple has changed things for the better of the consumer just being in the game.
What has Apple changed for the consumer? Rate plans - no, more flexiblility - no, things are exactly the same as before they started
I would far rather buy an iPhone at full price, and have it unlocked, and not tied to the over priced plans that a lot of the providers are giving
It's the typical rate in the US for a soft 5GB/unlimited limit. I always far exceed 5GB in the 4 or 5 days that I use it. I use my iPhone daily and don't recall every exceeding 5GB. I don't think the price is outrageous when I pay for $60/month for cabled internet, too. Cure it's faster, but it's also cheaper to run and maintain. Not allowing tethering, while annoying, also makes sense as you are paying less money for the data service. I average about 6x as much data on my Mac with AT&T than I do with the iPhone but I only pay 2x as much.
Hypothetically, if AT&T were required by law to allow tethering for all phones with data packages they would just jack up the price of the data portion to compensate.
Just got my Rogers' bill. From July 17 to Aug 12, used a whopping 44.2 Mbs!
Of course, I work in environments that with Wi-Fi, and only use my iPhone mostly for phoning and fooling around with the GPS and Speedbox (about 20 minutes/day) in the car. Actually used it more lately to measure network speeds. Turns out my 3g is getting up to ten times Edge at times and Wi-Fi just blows those away. We get 9MBS down for $30 a month and virtually instant service 24/7 (local IPS) here.
Just ran iNetwork Test. Edge, 67; 3G, 283; Wi-Fi,3213 kbs. Just getting a little bar. If I walk up to the corner it jumps to max. Live in a ravine on the moraine.
Overall, very pleased with everything. MobileMe working perfectly once I figured out how to set preferences properly.
I don't class a hack as a valid comparision
What is wrong with using a jailbroken iPhone to do the PC browser test comparison? You still get the results with the phone browsers being taken out of the equation as you first suggested. I think you are purposely being obtuse.
Then you are back to the agrument as to why you should have to hack your phone to be able to do something as simple as installing applications you want.
I haven't argued as to the why, that is all you. But that has no bearing on my reply to you saying that you shouldn't jailbreak your device because there is a rare possibility that you may have to take it in for repairs. My rebuttal was that you can un-jailbreak just as easily. Technically it's easier to un-jailbreak that it is to jailbreak, but I didn't want to split hairs.
If it is only AT&T moaning about this, why was the feature left out of the phone in the first place... It's not like Apple doesn't know how to handle it, they support it in OS X now.
How does that statement make any sense? AT&T was the first and only carrier on board with Apple when the iPhone was announced so AT&T would be the primary carrier who would a problem with tethering. Besides that, Apple supports a lot of things on Mac OS X that they don't on the iPhone. Now I know you are purposely trying to be obtuse.
What has Apple changed for the consumer? Rate plans - no, more flexiblility - no, things are exactly the same as before they started
For starters cellphone data plans in the US have been cut in half since the iPhone's arrival. This could very well be a coincidence, but I tend not to believe in coincidences. Secondly, the stagnant product lines are now being revamped to compete with the cell phone.
Secondly, in the US every major carrier will have their own "iPhone-killer" this year with a large high-res interface, multi-touch capabilities w/ virtual keyboard, significant Flash capacity increases, and most will have WiFi included. In other words, they are making they are beefing up the HW. They've also revamping the interface to be more user friendly and to focus on the consumer wants like multimedia and web browsing.
Nokia has bought a Spanish design team and is teaming up Mozilla to port FF to Qt. On top of that, Nokia's VP's has publicly stated that they now see they need focus more on the software and Nokia even has a video of their iPhone clone demo.
There is also RiM who is adopting WebKit as their browser and will be releasing the Thunder in 7 weeks which is the first handheld that will reportedly have comparable CPU speed as that of the iPhone. If you don't know, it's a device that no BB user would have thought the business-oriented company would make even after the iPhone was released.
Android will be following Apple with their own centralised App Store and I'm certain others will eventually do the same with their own centralised App Stores and notification servers for non-ActoveSync data.
I would far rather buy an iPhone at full price, and have it unlocked, and not tied to the over priced plans that a lot of the providers are giving
No one is stopping you from doing that. There are eBay seller and overseas websites that are selling them unlocked. There are even countries that require them to be sold unlocked or unlocked after a certain time. I don't know what country you are in (I'm not even sure what planet you are j/k) but they can be had. If you are in the US and don't travel out of the country then there is no reason to have it unlocked as AT&T is the only game in town, but you can buy it free and clear without any contract lock-in for a total of about $600 for the 16GB model after a month, which is less than the $700 they will be selling it for once the surge dies down.
What is wrong with using a jailbroken iPhone to do the PC browser test comparison? You still get the results with the phone browsers being taken out of the equation as you first suggested. I think you are purposely being obtuse.
As it is not the "out of the box" phone is it.
How does that statement make any sense? AT&T was the first and only carrier on board with Apple when the iPhone was announced so AT&T would be the primary carrier who would a problem with tethering. Besides that, Apple supports a lot of things on Mac OS X that they don't on the iPhone. Now I know you are purposely trying to be obtuse.
No I'm not. As far as mobile markets go, the US is backwards, and for Apple to set their standards based on the US, then it makes them backwards as well.
I wasn't referring to OS X as a whole, I was referring to mobile interaction
For starters cellphone data plans in the US have been cut in half since the iPhone's arrival. This could very well be a coincidence, but I tend not to believe in coincidences. Secondly, the stagnant product lines are now being revamped to compete with the cell phone.
There lays the issue. I don't live in the US, I live in Ireland, and there is been no different what so ever here. O2 and Vodafone are still overpriced for data, 3 are still ok.
Maybe you are noticing a change because the US is starting to catch up with other countries?
Nokia has bought a Spanish design team and is teaming up Mozilla to port FF to Qt. On top of that, Nokia's VP's has publicly stated that they now see they need focus more on the software and Nokia even has a[URL="http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/29/nokias-iphone-no-seriously/";
video[/URL] of their iPhone clone demo.
Nokia has been working on Mozilla and portable devices for quite a while, I have been using it on my N800 for a long time.
No one is stopping you from doing that. There are eBay seller and overseas websites that are selling them unlocked. There are even countries that require them to be sold unlocked or unlocked after a certain time. I don't know what country you are in (I'm not even sure what planet you are j/k) but they can be had. If you are in the US and don't travel out of the country then there is no reason to have it unlocked as AT&T is the only game in town, but you can buy it free and clear without any contract lock-in for a total of about $600 for the 16GB model after a month, which is less than the $700 they will be selling it for once the surge dies down.
The countries that are selling them unlocked, are selling them very expensive, more than I am willing to pay for one. and, personally, I wouldn't buy things off ebay
Maybe Apple should drop their contract with AT&T and jump on over to verizon, their network is rock solid. I'm sure there would be a hellava lot less complaints and lawsuits for that matter.
Fight the lawsuit to the death Apple, don't let these idiots who don't know how to use technology take you down.
HA HA HA. Verizon is rock solid? Get a clue. If Verizon was the carrier for the iPhone, those pricks would disable all the features and try and charge you to browse your own address book! I know plenty of people that dropped Verizon for crappy service, dropped calls, and no signal.
Let's face it, all the cellular carriers suck in the US.
This stupid shit is trying to sue Apple for something they have no control over, nor did they ever try to claim full coverage for AT&T's network. I am sure this idiot would have the same coverage issues with ANY brand of phone.
As it is not the "out of the box" phone is it.
You clearly stated, "So maybe tethering both devices to a notebook and performing some tests could help determining the network speed of both devices." You keep changing the argument to "Apple=bad" when this is about the network speed using the same browser.
As far as mobile markets go, the US is backwards, and for Apple to set their standards based on the US, then it makes them backwards as well.
Yes you are, which I am not going to respond anymore these posts as the only more foolish that a fool is the one who argues with one.
I wasn't referring to OS X as a whole, I was referring to mobile interaction
So your general, all encompassing statement was really just meant to refer to only things that support your POV and to exclude all relevant aspects of Mac OS X that don't support your POV.
There lays the issue. I don't live in the US, I live in Ireland, and there is been no different what so ever here. O2 and Vodafone are still overpriced for data, 3 are still ok.
First off, nice use of lays, that phrasing is usually written incorrectly. Secondly, I'm aware of the crappie plans for Ireland. O2 in the UK doesn't have such bad plans but you are all getting the shaft. But is only for plans, not for new products that will be coming to all countries with a high GDP because of the iPhone.
Oh yeah, I forget to mention that the iPhone has increase interest in smartphone sales in general (can't find link) . Assuming you already have a smartphone this means that there will be more focus on these devices from manufactures which will benefit you.
Maybe you are noticing a change because the US is starting to catch up with other countries?
I'd agree that the US is seeing the most change from the iPhone's introduction, but I wouldn't agree that it's the only country with change. Maybe you are noticing a change because you live in Ireland?
Nokia has been working on Mozilla and portable devices for quite a while, I have been using it on my N800 for a long time.
That wasn't officially until 6 months after the iPhone launched, but since it replaced Opera I won't argue that point. It does use the Gecko engine which is nice, but it does have some major limitations, too, and is only for the N800 and N810, which aren't cellphones. The FF port using Qt will add a lot of features and efficiency that aren't/won't be available for MicroB. Plus, it will be available for cellphones and I'm guessing it will be replacing WebKit on S60. I think that is a bad move on Nokia's part since WebKit is already ported, is a proven effective on a mobile platform and has a faster engine than Gecko which becomes more important on slower devices. On the other hand, I understand Nokia's decision to move away from an Apple sponsored product, even if it is open source.
The countries that are selling them unlocked, are selling them very expensive, more than I am willing to pay for one. and, personally, I wouldn't buy things off ebay
They are but that them are the breaks. I wish there was another carrier with UTMS in the US so I could at least have an option to jump ship from AT&T. I also wish that an software unlock for the iPhone 3G comes out soon so I can sell the 2 extra ones that I have.
How much are they compared to other unlocked, contract-free phones with 8GB Flash? How much is the Nokia N96 going to be?
Yes you are, which I am not going to respond anymore these posts as the only more foolish that a fool is the one who argues with one.
Fair enough, why don't you go off and insult the Polish a bit more
Yeah, I do. FIOS isn't available in my area and DSL won't give me 15Mbps down. I have no idea what the "low-level DSL speeds" comes from.
The real money waster is the money I pay for cable TV, not what I pay AT&T as I need my AirCard to connect at times. If you think it's too much, what other option do you suggest for connecting my Mac when I'm not at home (which is 95% of the time), the hotel wants >$20 for 24 hours and Im not near an open wifi hotspot?
I meant the speeds you get from AT&T's 3G network are equivalent to low-level DSL speeds (1.5Mbps) - at least that's been my experience with the Verizon 3G card I have at home (it's for work - I wouldn't buy Verizon if I had a choice
well, I guess if you really need 15 then 60 isn't bad but, out of curiosity, what are you doing that you *need* 15 down?
here are the legal caveats for apple's 3g representations... you could drive a LARGE truck through these... we'll see - there may be a false advertising claim outside of a class action breach claim:
Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2008 using preproduction 3G/EDGE-capable iPhone units and software and currently shipping EDGE-capable iPhone units and software. Testing was conducted by browsing to http://www.lonelyplanet.com and measured uncached page load performance. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks and Auto-Brightness were turned off. Wi-Fi was enabled but not associated with a network. Throughput depends on the cellular network, location, signal strength, 3G/EDGE connectivity, feature configuration, usage, the Internet, and many other factors. Throughput tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.
THANKS!
Has anyone tested their 3G without auto-brightness on? Had not even considered (hey, I'm a tech savvy lightweight) this would/could impact performance? Comments? Possible?
Edit:
Just did an informal test switching between 3G and Edge with AutoB & wifi off, AutoB & wifi on, AutoB on & wifi off). Then repeated the process twice just to see what happened re. loading one page from my bookmarks. Time ranged from 11 seconds to 17 seconds (full load equals the moment Safari stops loading, not when page first shows up on screen). First load with 3G was 14 seconds, second test was 11 seconds. Nothing conclusive.
I just went to http://i.dslr.net/tinyspeedtest.html to test out my speed using various methods. What I like about the site is that it lists today's and all time stats for the various connection type. Note: this is just for iPhone users and one can fudge the stats by choosing an incorrect connection type but it does give some information as what one may expect.
Tests were done in on the first floor of a 4 story hotel about 20 feet from the closest exterior wall while being held in my hand. All tests were completed 3x to get the mean average.
My Stats:
EDGE ..210kbps
HSDPA 1.15Mbps
Stats:.. .All Time . . . . .Today
GPRS .. 40kbps/1535ms . . 32kbps/1941ms
EDGE . 143kbps/ 873ms . .144kbps/ 836ms
3G .. .724kbps/ 446ms . .723kbps/ 435ms
WiFi .2.39Mbps/ 163ms . 2.24Mbps/ 164ms
. . . . .(speed/latency)
Thank you - always enjoy reading your posts. Does autobright on/off make ANY difference in speeds? Seems like it would only affect battery life.
I thought I had read somewhere on CNet that it would be somewhere in the mid 400 range. Then it just comes down to the RAM and browser (let's just assume same network, same connection since the network isn't really the point of the argument) and I'd bet my lunch (half a box of pasta
The other differance that should benifit the iphone is the OS: Blackberry is Java based, which is slow, in my experiance, whereas the iphone is compiled c/objC on top of BSD...that means it is pretty much built for speed
Win or lose what do you think will be the reputation hit that Apple suffers. People will hardly remember that the case was dismissed or even care if Apple wins. They will remember how a perception was created that Apple sold a defective product. This is the real damage.
all i hear is how jobs plans on doing something about the app problem. i wish he would address the dropped call problem in NYC. the iphone is supposed to be a phone so why doesnt he address the fact it drops calls more than any other phone using the at&t network. all my coworkers use blackberries, no problem. i cant even explain how frustrated i am regarding dropped calls that have affected my business. jobs should be addressing reception before apps. dont get me wrong the iphone is a great toy but if the phone doesnt work its nothing but a toy.. word of mouth will chew at apples core. everyone who has seen my problems changed thier mind about buying into a trend. hopefully someone at apple reads this, do whats right and fix the problem, otherwise the businesses they are marketing to with push outlook will turn there head to rimm and ruin there reputation. by the way the newest update didn't do anthing about dropped calls. im siiting in my apt. in manhattan and my phone went from 5 bars to none resulting in an updated dropped call. word of mouth is going to take its toll on appls bottom line
- No downloading games
- No surfing the internet
- No watching YouTube
- No checking my stocks (of which I have several shares of Apple
- No downloading emails
- No sending of emails
Just a ficking phone. I'm sure if they did that, the iPhone would have NO complaints against it.
Christ - all the shit it does, no wonder it isn't perfect.
Folks, get ready for the iPhone to get a whole hell of a lot bigger - if you want a small desktop unit. Now on the other hand if you want a phone ? get ready, Apple will be announcing one, that is just that
Skip
PS Is that person suing their internet company when the speeds of the computers at home, goes to slow?
Wi-Fi tests in home office set in ravine lot. Edge and 3G tests were done across the street while being held in my hand. All tests were completed 3x to get the mean average.
My Stats:
EDGE ...126kbps
3G .... 1.411Mbps
WiFi . .3.347Mbps
Stats:.. ..All Time . . .. . .Today
GPRS ... 39kbps/1164ms ... 36kbps/11701ms
EDGE .. 142kbps/863ms . .. 131kbps/292ms
3G ....7738kbps/4429ms ....778kbps/396ms
WiFi ..2.44Mbps/159ms ... 2.35Mbps/160ms
. . . . .(speed/latency)That is an average of 10x faster.
Word is that our carrier has capped 3G and is gradually increasing the speed as the system proves that it can accommodate the growth. Based on tests I ran soon after purchase and today, it would appear to confirm the capping.
As I posted previously, my data usage for the first invoice period, i.e., July 17 to Aug.13, was a whopping 42.3 MBs.
Happily, my work/developing/teaching/consulting services is mostly done in a Wi-Fi environment. Data usage otherwise has been primarily restricted to travelling using GPS apps and testing network speeds.
Based on my usage, it would seem that Rogers was correct using AT&Ts reported average data usage of its users at 100MBs/month as a guide for its pricing structure. I personally don't see how I could consume 6Gbs in a month.
I would also like to bring to the attention of fellow Rogers customers, that the normal charger for data usage roaming in the US is regularly 3¢/kb ($30/MBs) However, iPhone uses get a reduction, i.e., 0.06¢/kb ($6/MBs) Still not as good as Wi-Fi, but still a significant reduction.
Thanks Solipsism for the link, i.e., http://i.dslr.net/tinyspeedtest.html and as you can see, your template.
Wi-Fi tests in home office set in ravine lot. Edge and 3G tests were done across the street while being held in my hand. All tests were completed 3x to get the mean average.
[SIZE="3"]That is an average of 10x faster.
Word is that our carrier has capped 3G and is gradually increasing the speed as the system proves that it can accommodate the growth. Based on tests I ran soon after purchase and today, it would appear to confirm the capping.
As I posted previously, my data usage for the first invoice period, i.e., July 17 to Aug.13, was a whopping 42.3 MBs.
Happily, my work/developing/teaching/consulting services is mostly done in a Wi-Fi environment. Data usage otherwise has been primarily restricted to travelling using GPS apps and testing network speeds.
Based on my usage, it would seem that Rogers was correct using AT&Ts reported average data usage of its users at 100MBs/month as a guide for its pricing structure. I personally don't see how I could consume 6Gbs in a month.
I would also like to bring to the attention of fellow Rogers customers, that the normal charger for data usage roaming in the US is regularly 30¢/kb ($30/MBs) However, iPhone uses get a reduction, i.e., 06¢/kb ($6/MBs) Still not as good as Wi-Fi, but still a significant reduction.
I wonder what the plantiff was getting. I have doubts that she actually tested her phone.
I wouldn't have thought Rogers' 3G speeds would be so high. The US data roaming is interesting as I see no reason why Rogers would even need to make prices cheaper in the US, especially that much cheaper. I wonder if Apple had any influence there. That is a huge drop; only 20% of the amount all the other phones pay, and they don't have the iPhone's browser or apps.