The total system is more complex. The components are the same although you may see more complex set ups (leading to more issues to resolve) or more robust implementations of components (read more expensive). For example you might need/want more transcivers or more combiners or whatever in a more complex site that sectorizes to handle higher density from one physical site via more cells.
Smaller buildouts cost less money and typically can support a simultaneous rollout. There are fewer customers so you can get away with more rapid changes. You can wing it more and get the same results.
This is like saying that building a house is the same as building a skyscraper. Same raw components, just not as much.
Why on earth would anyone JUST talk about the antennas. Tower is short hand for everything that goes into a site.
This argument is getting boring and going no where. You can think what you think, and I can know what I know. It is really not worth my time, and maybe not even yours any longer. Live with AT&T and their "stories". Accept their excuses and even evangelize for them. All I know is, I do not remotely have the connectivity issues that some are having because here and in other places I have lived/worked, the operators have done the work, paid the price, and build the networks and the results are contrasting.
This argument is getting boring and going no where. You can think what you think, and I can know what I know. It is really not worth my time, and maybe not even yours any longer. Live with AT&T and their "stories". Accept their excuses and even evangelize for them. All I know is, I do not remotely have the connectivity issues that some are having because here and in other places I have lived/worked, the operators have done the work, paid the price, and build the networks and the results are contrasting.
Where AT&T can be blamed is for kicking the (HDSPA roll out) can down the road until they absolutely had to do it. I can imagine they were in no hurry to implement it because they would not be able to monetize it right away. They waited until their was demand for 3G to implement it, a shortsightedness that causes problems because they are building it right when their is demand for it.
The problem we are having stems from the fact that you keep saying Finland rolled out 3G, AT&T should be able to do it as simply as it was done there. What we try to point out is the fact that Finland is a little larger than New Mexico the 5th largest state. Finland and the United States are two entirely different situations. Both present vastly different circumstances and I'm sure require entirely different solutions to problems.
You continue to say this should be no problem for AT&T while providing little material information as to why it should be easy. I've asked you for a carrier that has accomplished the same task as AT&T, under the same circumstances, with no problems and you haven't seem to have found anyone.
If you are still paying them such a horrendous sum, I will dig up the settings for this. Get the USB cable that came with the phone ready - I will post the instructions here tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2
That's not how it worked when I used my 8525 a little over a year ago. For tethering actually to work, I had to activate AT&T's Laptop Connect service at $60/month, which is $20/month more than the 8525's $40/month unlimited data plan a year ago, $30/month more than the current 3G smart phone data plans, and $40/month more than the original iPhone data plan.
Only 30 times bigger? Seeing as Finland is smaller than the three largest US states. Exactly at what point should land mass become a challenge?
What other carrier has launched a new 3G service and immidiatly has it working with few problems in the third largest country in the world to hundreds of millions of consumers. Right when mobile data use has grown at 200%.
Yes, only 30 times bigger, with 58 times the number of potential customers.
People constantly go on about Finland having the majority of their population in one area. So you are telling me that in each state, has all their population spread out? They have major population areas as well, the situation is exactly the same once broken down.
Smaller buildouts cost less money and typically can support a simultaneous rollout. There are fewer customers so you can get away with more rapid changes. You can wing it more and get the same results.
Fewer customers generally means lower revenue (unless you price yourself too high), which can result in a slower rollout
Yes, only 30 times bigger, with 58 times the number of potential customers.
People constantly go on about Finland having the majority of their population in one area. So you are telling me that in each state, has all their population spread out? They have major population areas as well, the situation is exactly the same once broken down.
Depends on the state. Not every state has a large city with a large population center. The majority of the population tend to cluster in regions that contain many states, not simply parts states.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
Yes it is if you compare it to the entire USA, you should be comparing it at state level
AT&T covers most of the country, not certain states.
From my notes, All you need to do is go to programs -> Share Internet on the 8525 and mark it as using USB cable.
Then when you plug the phone into your PC's USB port, it will come up with a prompt - would you like to use the internet through the device or something like that - to which you would obviously say yes and bingo.
Nothing complicated, no $20 more monthly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvosx
If you are still paying them such a horrendous sum, I will dig up the settings for this. Get the USB cable that came with the phone ready - I will post the instructions here tomorrow.
I really don't know what you guys are arguing about.
Wired.com reviewed all the entries --- and came out that AT&T is the 3rd best iphone carrier performance in the world (tie with Telia which is selling the iphone in Sweden and Norway).
So for AT&T to have to cover a much bigger area, and for them to have iphone data plans that allow 5 GB per month --- it is a really good network deployment.
And to have Telia cover such a small area, and to have their population so concentrated in their big cities and to have iphone plans that give you anywhere from 250 MB to 500 MB to 1 GB per month --- it is a really crappy network deployment.
You are always going on about how large the US is, and each state seems to implement their own rules, so they are almost like 50 countries.
Vodafone has managed to implement 3G networks in a large number of countries, why can't AT&T in the US.
Look at the wired.com 3g iphone results --- they don't even list Vodafone in the top 3. So AT&T has a better 3G network implementation than Vodafone for the iphone.
Look at the wired.com 3g iphone results --- they don't even list Vodafone in the top 3. So AT&T has a better 3G network implementation than Vodafone for the iphone.
You can't take that thing as a test of how well their network performs.
Where was the server located? There a lot of factors that will result in a low speed for that type of thing
And to have Telia cover such a small area, and to have their population so concentrated in their big cities and to have iphone plans that give you anywhere from 250 MB to 500 MB to 1 GB per month --- it is a really crappy network deployment.
Available speed, and the data plans availale doesn't determine the how the network deployment went.
I said why could they treat them as 50 small installations, as Vodafone manages to do it quite happily that way.
You said they were one country, name something that they do indepentantly in the various states.
I said sales taxes are one.
Yes each state has it's own government, certain state rights, and certain ability to pass indivdual laws. But generally state law cannot supercede federal laws. None of that has anything to do with AT&T network.
You can't take that thing as a test of how well their network performs.
Where was the server located? There a lot of factors that will result in a low speed for that type of thing.
Available speed, and the data plans availale doesn't determine the how the network deployment went.
It is better than one appleinsider forum member saying his network is better and a second appleinsider forum member saying that the first guy is wrong.
The data plans certainly is an important factor of network deployment --- it's going to tell us if people are downloading all the time. If everybody takes the 250 MB iphone data plan in one country (less than 10 MB a day) --- they are not going to put stress on the network. And if that network has the same speed in the survey as another network (like AT&T where everybody is downloading like crazy) --- then it doesn't look good for the first network.
Comments
The total system is more complex. The components are the same although you may see more complex set ups (leading to more issues to resolve) or more robust implementations of components (read more expensive). For example you might need/want more transcivers or more combiners or whatever in a more complex site that sectorizes to handle higher density from one physical site via more cells.
Smaller buildouts cost less money and typically can support a simultaneous rollout. There are fewer customers so you can get away with more rapid changes. You can wing it more and get the same results.
This is like saying that building a house is the same as building a skyscraper. Same raw components, just not as much.
Why on earth would anyone JUST talk about the antennas. Tower is short hand for everything that goes into a site.
This argument is getting boring and going no where. You can think what you think, and I can know what I know. It is really not worth my time, and maybe not even yours any longer. Live with AT&T and their "stories". Accept their excuses and even evangelize for them. All I know is, I do not remotely have the connectivity issues that some are having because here and in other places I have lived/worked, the operators have done the work, paid the price, and build the networks and the results are contrasting.
This argument is getting boring and going no where. You can think what you think, and I can know what I know. It is really not worth my time, and maybe not even yours any longer. Live with AT&T and their "stories". Accept their excuses and even evangelize for them. All I know is, I do not remotely have the connectivity issues that some are having because here and in other places I have lived/worked, the operators have done the work, paid the price, and build the networks and the results are contrasting.
Where AT&T can be blamed is for kicking the (HDSPA roll out) can down the road until they absolutely had to do it. I can imagine they were in no hurry to implement it because they would not be able to monetize it right away. They waited until their was demand for 3G to implement it, a shortsightedness that causes problems because they are building it right when their is demand for it.
The problem we are having stems from the fact that you keep saying Finland rolled out 3G, AT&T should be able to do it as simply as it was done there. What we try to point out is the fact that Finland is a little larger than New Mexico the 5th largest state. Finland and the United States are two entirely different situations. Both present vastly different circumstances and I'm sure require entirely different solutions to problems.
You continue to say this should be no problem for AT&T while providing little material information as to why it should be easy. I've asked you for a carrier that has accomplished the same task as AT&T, under the same circumstances, with no problems and you haven't seem to have found anyone.
That's not how it worked when I used my 8525 a little over a year ago. For tethering actually to work, I had to activate AT&T's Laptop Connect service at $60/month, which is $20/month more than the 8525's $40/month unlimited data plan a year ago, $30/month more than the current 3G smart phone data plans, and $40/month more than the original iPhone data plan.
I didn't even bother to go there. It would have been a waste of time. I was using the Nokia Data Suite way back when HSCSD was the rage.
I started with CSD, man that was slow.
Only 30 times bigger? Seeing as Finland is smaller than the three largest US states. Exactly at what point should land mass become a challenge?
What other carrier has launched a new 3G service and immidiatly has it working with few problems in the third largest country in the world to hundreds of millions of consumers. Right when mobile data use has grown at 200%.
Yes, only 30 times bigger, with 58 times the number of potential customers.
People constantly go on about Finland having the majority of their population in one area. So you are telling me that in each state, has all their population spread out? They have major population areas as well, the situation is exactly the same once broken down.
You of course completely ignore the fact that it is much easier and cheaper to provide service in Finland than in the United States.
Yes it is if you compare it to the entire USA, you should be comparing it at state level
Smaller buildouts cost less money and typically can support a simultaneous rollout. There are fewer customers so you can get away with more rapid changes. You can wing it more and get the same results.
Fewer customers generally means lower revenue (unless you price yourself too high), which can result in a slower rollout
Yes, only 30 times bigger, with 58 times the number of potential customers.
People constantly go on about Finland having the majority of their population in one area. So you are telling me that in each state, has all their population spread out? They have major population areas as well, the situation is exactly the same once broken down.
Depends on the state. Not every state has a large city with a large population center. The majority of the population tend to cluster in regions that contain many states, not simply parts states.
Yes it is if you compare it to the entire USA, you should be comparing it at state level
AT&T covers most of the country, not certain states.
AT&T covers most of the country, not certain states.
You are always going on about how large the US is, and each state seems to implement their own rules, so they are almost like 50 countries.
Vodafone has managed to implement 3G networks in a large number of countries, why can't AT&T in the US.
Then when you plug the phone into your PC's USB port, it will come up with a prompt - would you like to use the internet through the device or something like that - to which you would obviously say yes and bingo.
Nothing complicated, no $20 more monthly.
If you are still paying them such a horrendous sum, I will dig up the settings for this. Get the USB cable that came with the phone ready - I will post the instructions here tomorrow.
Wired.com reviewed all the entries --- and came out that AT&T is the 3rd best iphone carrier performance in the world (tie with Telia which is selling the iphone in Sweden and Norway).
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/0...-iphone-3.html
So for AT&T to have to cover a much bigger area, and for them to have iphone data plans that allow 5 GB per month --- it is a really good network deployment.
And to have Telia cover such a small area, and to have their population so concentrated in their big cities and to have iphone plans that give you anywhere from 250 MB to 500 MB to 1 GB per month --- it is a really crappy network deployment.
You are always going on about how large the US is, and each state seems to implement their own rules, so they are almost like 50 countries.
Vodafone has managed to implement 3G networks in a large number of countries, why can't AT&T in the US.
Look at the wired.com 3g iphone results --- they don't even list Vodafone in the top 3. So AT&T has a better 3G network implementation than Vodafone for the iphone.
Look at the wired.com 3g iphone results --- they don't even list Vodafone in the top 3. So AT&T has a better 3G network implementation than Vodafone for the iphone.
You can't take that thing as a test of how well their network performs.
Where was the server located? There a lot of factors that will result in a low speed for that type of thing
And to have Telia cover such a small area, and to have their population so concentrated in their big cities and to have iphone plans that give you anywhere from 250 MB to 500 MB to 1 GB per month --- it is a really crappy network deployment.
Available speed, and the data plans availale doesn't determine the how the network deployment went.
You are always going on about how large the US is, and each state seems to implement their own rules, so they are almost like 50 countries.
Vodafone has managed to implement 3G networks in a large number of countries, why can't AT&T in the US.
What rules are you refering to? Wireless frequency allocation is done on a federal level. Each state does not decide their wireless spectrum.
What rules are you refering to? Wireless frequency allocation is done on a federal level. Each state does not decide their wireless spectrum.
Sales tax is one example
Sales tax is one example
What does sales tax have to do with ATT network?
What does sales tax have to do with ATT network?
I said why could they treat them as 50 small installations, as Vodafone manages to do it quite happily that way.
You said they were one country, name something that they do indepentantly in the various states.
I said sales taxes are one.
I said why could they treat them as 50 small installations, as Vodafone manages to do it quite happily that way.
You said they were one country, name something that they do indepentantly in the various states.
I said sales taxes are one.
Yes each state has it's own government, certain state rights, and certain ability to pass indivdual laws. But generally state law cannot supercede federal laws. None of that has anything to do with AT&T network.
You can't take that thing as a test of how well their network performs.
Where was the server located? There a lot of factors that will result in a low speed for that type of thing.
Available speed, and the data plans availale doesn't determine the how the network deployment went.
It is better than one appleinsider forum member saying his network is better and a second appleinsider forum member saying that the first guy is wrong.
The data plans certainly is an important factor of network deployment --- it's going to tell us if people are downloading all the time. If everybody takes the 250 MB iphone data plan in one country (less than 10 MB a day) --- they are not going to put stress on the network. And if that network has the same speed in the survey as another network (like AT&T where everybody is downloading like crazy) --- then it doesn't look good for the first network.