Flash Lite isn't enough, I think this should be an all or nothing. I don't even know how many flash objects are compatible with Flash Lite.
It's based on Flash 7, which debuted in 2003. I have no idea what was taken out or put in, but it's certainly isn't what people are asking for when they ask for Flash on the iPhone. It also has many issues with performance and power usage, but that is expected.
PS: Daring Fireball's Gruber has a good argument as to why Apple will never add Flash to the iPhone, but with only a fraction of phones even using the inept Flash Lite if Apple were to get Adobe to get a solid version of Flash working for the iPhone it would further push OS X iPhone ahead even further as it would be the only phone with this functionality for awhile.
Nokia has semi copied the iphone but not really. Every company copies every company since the beginning of time this is nothing new. Apple is not 100% original with there products either. Anyway I don't like that this phone isn't multi touch or the fact that apple has such a strong hold on multi touch. Eh... first itunes... now multi touch. How can you own a function. Anyway I do like this new phone has flash and a full HTML browser which is what the iphone has that goes to the moron who didn't know that. Anyway if nokias browser actually works especially with flash unlike the iphone which doesn't have flash and still crashes all the time. If I remember correctly it was apple who said. Flash will never be in a phone unless the phone has a built in fan, it will run too hot. HA! morons. Stupid apple.
I don't think "Flash Lite" is going to give you the "entire" Web either...
But eeeeeeeveryone wants to have access to those "shoot the monkey", "do 20 pull-ups", and "George Bush has an IQ of 129...are you smarter than him" ads. And Flash is the only way to access those oh-so-wonderful ads.
# The screen resolution is nice, but the resistive "touchscreen" aka "stylus tap screen" on this thing makes it a non-starter for anyone that has ever touched an iPhone/Touch.
# They basically took the regular Symbian S60 and hacked it around to make it more "touchscreen" friendly. Compared this to the hype and expectations of a totally new revamped touch interface. The interface is still very inconsistent and quirky, like requiring manipulation of scroll bars instead of just swiping to scroll, and some contexts require double-taps where as others require single taps for what is seemingly the same operation. Overall very disappointing, and I think this is one of the reasons they are not advertising this as a high-end "iPhone killer".
# Although the web browser does use webkit as a rendering engine, it is nowhere near as functional as iPhone Safari. It renders HTML pages how they are meant to be seen, but panning and zooming operations look slow, choppy, difficult to use and overall very frustrating compared to the smooth and intuitive operations of iPhone Safari.
# On the other hand, it looks ok for use as a basic music phone, although I wouldn't expect great video playback performance.
While we're talking about competition here's what I would love to see in the next major release of iPhone hardware. The iPhone will probably hit 32GB in Jan, the 3rd Gen iPhone, due for release in summer 2009, I want:
32GB Storage, 640x360 3.5" OLED display, 4MP camera with video recording right out of the box. A flash for that camera would be nice too.
# The screen resolution is nice, but the resistive "touchscreen" aka "stylus tap screen" on this thing makes it a non-starter for anyone that has ever touched an iPhone/Touch.
here is my take.
it isn't an iPhone competitor as others have said (Nokia will say this as well), but it is an alterative (like all phones are)
Most people cannot afford (or do not want to pay) the service plan associated with an iPhone, making this phone (and all of the Nokia phones you can buy unlocked) a major advantage
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan
# They basically took the regular Symbian S60 and hacked it around to make it more "touchscreen" friendly. Compared this to the hype and expectations of a totally new revamped touch interface.
Touch screens are not a new thing, they have been out for a long time. all touch screen interfaces (including the majority of the iPhone interface) are just adjusted to make them more finger friendly.
And for the multi-touch, that is not an Apple invention, and they don't own the rights to it. Others will start doing it, and will do it better that Apple does (I find the multi-touch on the iPhone/iPod touch very unresponsive)
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan
# On the other hand, it looks ok for use as a basic music phone, although I wouldn't expect great video playback performance.
Why would you say that without seeing it? A lot of reports say the iPod isn't the best music player, or video player for that matter (the lack of supported formats is one example). So you are going to downplay a device that hasn't been released yet.
While we're talking about competition here's what I would love to see in the next major release of iPhone hardware. The iPhone will probably hit 32GB in Jan, the 3rd Gen iPhone, due for release in summer 2009, I want:
32GB Storage, 640x360 3.5" OLED display, 4MP camera with video recording right out of the box. A flash for that camera would be nice too.
Thanks.
I wish the 3rd gen iPhone will have an e2e (edge to edge) screen that spans the entire front space of the iPhone. Why can't Apple place the home button at the right side of the phone and the earpiece on the chrome rim? This will allow a large 5" screen that makes video watching, game playing and web surfing much more enjoyable!
While we're talking about competition here's what I would love to see in the next major release of iPhone hardware. The iPhone will probably hit 32GB in Jan, the 3rd Gen iPhone, due for release in summer 2009, I want:
32GB Storage, 640x360 3.5" OLED display, 4MP camera with video recording right out of the box. A flash for that camera would be nice too.
Thanks.
My friend, people in hell want ice water, but it ain't gonna happen.
You might get 32 gigs but OLED is a big change as is the camera. You will need a bigger sensor which requires a bit more space. Not to mention better optics and software, so more megapixels does not necessarily assure a better image. The addition of the flash will also require a complete re-engineering of the current iPhone. I just do not see Apple going through the effort with the 3G being recently launched. Maybe they will though.
As for the other naysayers here. Funny how when Apple released the 1G (2G) iPhone, people were like: "give them a break, give them time, they are new at this, yada, yada, yada". As someone here put it, the Appleistas have just redefined the word hypocrisy. While being a phone lover, even Motorola, I am hopeful that Nokia can pull it off, and if anyone can get it right, they can. The more products in the market, the better for the consumer, unless you are an Appleista and feels the world should be all things iPhone. Right now it appears that the only real advantage the iPhone has going for it is the screen. On usable specs alone, the 5800 is simply miles ahead of the iPhone, and the soon to come N-series version will only up the ante. Apple has some competition on its hands.
The Comes with Music thing will be a hit. DRM free music, able to trasfer it to any device, is an instant hit. Even Amazon is showing great signs of promise. iTunes DRM days may be numbered if they do not start offering DRM free music. As there are several DRM removal scenarios available for iTunes purchased music, and hopefully one coming for video media as well, the 5800 is poised to jump right in the face of Apple in terms of content management, and user experience. Not to mention the ability to run applications in the background, the already massive applications portfolio, and the ability to install anything without having to have it blessed by Apple. This phone and subsequent offerings will appeal to the seemingly millions that have no desire to purchase an iPhone. It has to be noted that not everyone wants one and one again, this phone and its follow ups will fill this void, and Nokia will most likely increase its market share.
it isn't an iPhone competitor as others have said (Nokia will say this as well), but it is an alterative (like all phones are)
Most people cannot afford (or do not want to pay) the service plan associated with an iPhone, making this phone (and all of the Nokia phones you can buy unlocked) a major advantage
Touch screens are not a new thing, they have been out for a long time. all touch screen interfaces (including the majority of the iPhone interface) are just adjusted to make them more finger friendly.
And for the multi-touch, that is not an Apple invention, and they don't own the rights to it. Others will start doing it, and will do it better that Apple does (I find the multi-touch on the iPhone/iPod touch very unresponsive)
Why would you say that without seeing it? A lot of reports say the iPod isn't the best music player, or video player for that matter (the lack of supported formats is one example). So you are going to downplay a device that hasn't been released yet.
A very good and informative post. Thanks for not having blinders on and seeing things from both sides.
But eeeeeeeveryone wants to have access to those "shoot the monkey", "do 20 pull-ups", and "George Bush has an IQ of 129...are you smarter than him" ads. And Flash is the only way to access those oh-so-wonderful ads.
Not bad for a phone that will be given away for free in 6 months. Nokia is about bulk. They'll probably sell a 100 million of them in year's time.
Apple shook-up the industry and now the industry is catching up. What's next Apple?
HARDLY !
This is more like Nokia playing catch up to LG rather than Apple. A 'Push' touch screen with a stylus and haptic feedback. That will be the LG KU990 then. lol
I said this in another thread but I'll repeat myself...
The problem for Nokia is that this isn't a direct competitor to the iPhone. As noted, it's under half the price of the iPhone. This is no N- or E-series smartphone. That won't stop commentators from comparing it to the iPhone as if it were equally priced though.
There seems to be a lot of ignorance on AI about the capabilities of S60. That's not surprising as this is a North America-centric site. Yes, it'll sync with iTunes. Yes, it'll sync with iSync. Yes, it's web-browser is WebKit based and supports both Flash Lite 3 (aka Flash 8) and Silverlight. No, you don't have to use the stylus for anything apart from hand-writing recognition (which isn't even mandatory).
See the Gizmodo review of it...they really hate it.
Where in the articled did they say that they hated it? I think you are embellishing here a bit, or ly....
Gizmodo excerpts:
Quote:
This choice is probably a brilliant one, because after our quick demo, this thing needs a bit more time in the oven before it can stand with the big guys for a touchscreen-only device.
Quote:
The 5800 packs a built-in stylus for this reason—you'll be using it a lot.
Quote:
Going beyond Nokia's proprietary sync software (for iTunes, etc) will be like in any other Symbian phone—not super convenient.
Quote:
you'll probably be using T9 text entry with the touch dialpad or the stylus for most of your text entry unless you have the patience of a monk, which kind of defeats the point for an all-touch device these days.
In your minds and perception, do the above statements count as: really hating it?
Quote:
Comes With Music allows you to sync albums grabbed on the web to your device over 3G, though, which is nice.
You seemed to have missed this favorable statement by the same haters. Would you say that your post was biased, a lie, or you didn't understand the material presented?
I said this in another thread but I'll repeat myself...
The problem for Nokia is that this isn't a direct competitor to the iPhone. As noted, it's under half the price of the iPhone. This is no N- or E-series smartphone. That won't stop commentators from comparing it to the iPhone as if it were equally priced though.
There seems to be a lot of ignorance on AI about the capabilities of S60. That's not surprising as this is a North America-centric site. Yes, it'll sync with iTunes. Yes, it'll sync with iSync. Yes, it's web-browser is WebKit based and supports both Flash Lite 3 (aka Flash 8) and Silverlight. No, you don't have to use the stylus for anything apart from hand-writing recognition (which isn't even mandatory).
The single fact that you have to use a stylus (other than being unoriginal) makes this thing lame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan
# The screen resolution is nice, but the resistive "touchscreen" aka "stylus tap screen" on this thing makes it a non-starter for anyone that has ever touched an iPhone/Touch.
Did you people read the article? It says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
the 5800 uses a single-touch display and comes bundled with a stylus to handle aspects of the interface that can't be controlled with a finger.
It is a touchscreen where your use your finger to control things. The stylus is included for those small keys that "can't be controlled with a finger". I personally don't like the iPhone's keyboard, due to its small size and the fact that I frequently mistype using it. A stylus to complement the touchscreen is welcoming for me as I think it would be very helpful for those emails, notes, etc where I type a lot.
Remember that the world does not always revolve around you...there are others with different needs/desires out there too. I love my mac, and love reading the latest Apple rumors here on AI...but, my God, some of you are just the most arrogant people I've seen. Wasn't Apple's old advertising campaign Think Different...that's advise I suggest to you!!
It is a touchscreen where your use your finger to control things. The stylus is included for those small keys that "can't be controlled with a finger". I personally don't like the iPhone's keyboard, due to its small size and the fact that I frequently mistype using it. A stylus to complement the touchscreen is welcoming for me as I think it would be very helpful for those emails, notes, etc where I type a lot.
Remember that the world does not always revolve around you...there are others with different needs/desires out there too. I love my mac, and love reading the latest Apple rumors here on AI...but, my God, some of you are just the most arrogant people I've seen. Wasn't Apple's old advertising campaign Think Different...that's advise I suggest to you!!
I wish the 3rd gen iPhone will have an e2e (edge to edge) screen that spans the entire front space of the iPhone. Why can't Apple place the home button at the right side of the phone and the earpiece on the chrome rim? This will allow a large 5" screen that makes video watching, game playing and web surfing much more enjoyable!
Where would the speakers, headphone jack, sim tray and microphone go? They use quite a lot of space, which is why the screen isn't the whole display. iPhone would have to be much thicker at the top and bottom to accommodate the combined thickness of the display plus the components currently in the black space.
Comments
Forgetting? I've never even heard of a Nokia philosophy regarding women consumers.
Well the phone DOES vibrate
Flash Lite isn't enough, I think this should be an all or nothing. I don't even know how many flash objects are compatible with Flash Lite.
It's based on Flash 7, which debuted in 2003. I have no idea what was taken out or put in, but it's certainly isn't what people are asking for when they ask for Flash on the iPhone. It also has many issues with performance and power usage, but that is expected.
PS: Daring Fireball's Gruber has a good argument as to why Apple will never add Flash to the iPhone, but with only a fraction of phones even using the inept Flash Lite if Apple were to get Adobe to get a solid version of Flash working for the iPhone it would further push OS X iPhone ahead even further as it would be the only phone with this functionality for awhile.
No it's not- does the iPhone have Flash?
Nokia has semi copied the iphone but not really. Every company copies every company since the beginning of time this is nothing new. Apple is not 100% original with there products either. Anyway I don't like that this phone isn't multi touch or the fact that apple has such a strong hold on multi touch. Eh... first itunes... now multi touch. How can you own a function. Anyway I do like this new phone has flash and a full HTML browser which is what the iphone has that goes to the moron who didn't know that. Anyway if nokias browser actually works especially with flash unlike the iphone which doesn't have flash and still crashes all the time. If I remember correctly it was apple who said. Flash will never be in a phone unless the phone has a built in fan, it will run too hot. HA! morons. Stupid apple.
I don't think "Flash Lite" is going to give you the "entire" Web either...
But eeeeeeeveryone wants to have access to those "shoot the monkey", "do 20 pull-ups", and "George Bush has an IQ of 129...are you smarter than him" ads. And Flash is the only way to access those oh-so-wonderful ads.
# The screen resolution is nice, but the resistive "touchscreen" aka "stylus tap screen" on this thing makes it a non-starter for anyone that has ever touched an iPhone/Touch.
# They basically took the regular Symbian S60 and hacked it around to make it more "touchscreen" friendly. Compared this to the hype and expectations of a totally new revamped touch interface. The interface is still very inconsistent and quirky, like requiring manipulation of scroll bars instead of just swiping to scroll, and some contexts require double-taps where as others require single taps for what is seemingly the same operation. Overall very disappointing, and I think this is one of the reasons they are not advertising this as a high-end "iPhone killer".
# Although the web browser does use webkit as a rendering engine, it is nowhere near as functional as iPhone Safari. It renders HTML pages how they are meant to be seen, but panning and zooming operations look slow, choppy, difficult to use and overall very frustrating compared to the smooth and intuitive operations of iPhone Safari.
# On the other hand, it looks ok for use as a basic music phone, although I wouldn't expect great video playback performance.
32GB Storage, 640x360 3.5" OLED display, 4MP camera with video recording right out of the box. A flash for that camera would be nice too.
Thanks.
Nokia has semi copied the iphone but not really.
That makes no sense
Here's my take:
# The screen resolution is nice, but the resistive "touchscreen" aka "stylus tap screen" on this thing makes it a non-starter for anyone that has ever touched an iPhone/Touch.
here is my take.
it isn't an iPhone competitor as others have said (Nokia will say this as well), but it is an alterative (like all phones are)
Most people cannot afford (or do not want to pay) the service plan associated with an iPhone, making this phone (and all of the Nokia phones you can buy unlocked) a major advantage
# They basically took the regular Symbian S60 and hacked it around to make it more "touchscreen" friendly. Compared this to the hype and expectations of a totally new revamped touch interface.
Touch screens are not a new thing, they have been out for a long time. all touch screen interfaces (including the majority of the iPhone interface) are just adjusted to make them more finger friendly.
And for the multi-touch, that is not an Apple invention, and they don't own the rights to it. Others will start doing it, and will do it better that Apple does (I find the multi-touch on the iPhone/iPod touch very unresponsive)
# On the other hand, it looks ok for use as a basic music phone, although I wouldn't expect great video playback performance.
Why would you say that without seeing it? A lot of reports say the iPod isn't the best music player, or video player for that matter (the lack of supported formats is one example). So you are going to downplay a device that hasn't been released yet.
While we're talking about competition here's what I would love to see in the next major release of iPhone hardware. The iPhone will probably hit 32GB in Jan, the 3rd Gen iPhone, due for release in summer 2009, I want:
32GB Storage, 640x360 3.5" OLED display, 4MP camera with video recording right out of the box. A flash for that camera would be nice too.
Thanks.
I wish the 3rd gen iPhone will have an e2e (edge to edge) screen that spans the entire front space of the iPhone. Why can't Apple place the home button at the right side of the phone and the earpiece on the chrome rim? This will allow a large 5" screen that makes video watching, game playing and web surfing much more enjoyable!
While we're talking about competition here's what I would love to see in the next major release of iPhone hardware. The iPhone will probably hit 32GB in Jan, the 3rd Gen iPhone, due for release in summer 2009, I want:
32GB Storage, 640x360 3.5" OLED display, 4MP camera with video recording right out of the box. A flash for that camera would be nice too.
Thanks.
My friend, people in hell want ice water, but it ain't gonna happen.
You might get 32 gigs but OLED is a big change as is the camera. You will need a bigger sensor which requires a bit more space. Not to mention better optics and software, so more megapixels does not necessarily assure a better image. The addition of the flash will also require a complete re-engineering of the current iPhone. I just do not see Apple going through the effort with the 3G being recently launched. Maybe they will though.
As for the other naysayers here. Funny how when Apple released the 1G (2G) iPhone, people were like: "give them a break, give them time, they are new at this, yada, yada, yada". As someone here put it, the Appleistas have just redefined the word hypocrisy. While being a phone lover, even Motorola, I am hopeful that Nokia can pull it off, and if anyone can get it right, they can. The more products in the market, the better for the consumer, unless you are an Appleista and feels the world should be all things iPhone. Right now it appears that the only real advantage the iPhone has going for it is the screen. On usable specs alone, the 5800 is simply miles ahead of the iPhone, and the soon to come N-series version will only up the ante. Apple has some competition on its hands.
The Comes with Music thing will be a hit. DRM free music, able to trasfer it to any device, is an instant hit. Even Amazon is showing great signs of promise. iTunes DRM days may be numbered if they do not start offering DRM free music. As there are several DRM removal scenarios available for iTunes purchased music, and hopefully one coming for video media as well, the 5800 is poised to jump right in the face of Apple in terms of content management, and user experience. Not to mention the ability to run applications in the background, the already massive applications portfolio, and the ability to install anything without having to have it blessed by Apple. This phone and subsequent offerings will appeal to the seemingly millions that have no desire to purchase an iPhone. It has to be noted that not everyone wants one and one again, this phone and its follow ups will fill this void, and Nokia will most likely increase its market share.
Interesting times are coming.
here is my take.
it isn't an iPhone competitor as others have said (Nokia will say this as well), but it is an alterative (like all phones are)
Most people cannot afford (or do not want to pay) the service plan associated with an iPhone, making this phone (and all of the Nokia phones you can buy unlocked) a major advantage
Touch screens are not a new thing, they have been out for a long time. all touch screen interfaces (including the majority of the iPhone interface) are just adjusted to make them more finger friendly.
And for the multi-touch, that is not an Apple invention, and they don't own the rights to it. Others will start doing it, and will do it better that Apple does (I find the multi-touch on the iPhone/iPod touch very unresponsive)
Why would you say that without seeing it? A lot of reports say the iPod isn't the best music player, or video player for that matter (the lack of supported formats is one example). So you are going to downplay a device that hasn't been released yet.
A very good and informative post. Thanks for not having blinders on and seeing things from both sides.
But eeeeeeeveryone wants to have access to those "shoot the monkey", "do 20 pull-ups", and "George Bush has an IQ of 129...are you smarter than him" ads. And Flash is the only way to access those oh-so-wonderful ads.
Funny.
Not bad for a phone that will be given away for free in 6 months. Nokia is about bulk. They'll probably sell a 100 million of them in year's time.
Apple shook-up the industry and now the industry is catching up. What's next Apple?
HARDLY !
This is more like Nokia playing catch up to LG rather than Apple. A 'Push' touch screen with a stylus and haptic feedback. That will be the LG KU990 then. lol
The problem for Nokia is that this isn't a direct competitor to the iPhone. As noted, it's under half the price of the iPhone. This is no N- or E-series smartphone. That won't stop commentators from comparing it to the iPhone as if it were equally priced though.
There seems to be a lot of ignorance on AI about the capabilities of S60. That's not surprising as this is a North America-centric site. Yes, it'll sync with iTunes. Yes, it'll sync with iSync. Yes, it's web-browser is WebKit based and supports both Flash Lite 3 (aka Flash 8) and Silverlight. No, you don't have to use the stylus for anything apart from hand-writing recognition (which isn't even mandatory).
See the Gizmodo review of it...they really hate it.
Where in the articled did they say that they hated it? I think you are embellishing here a bit, or ly....
Gizmodo excerpts:
This choice is probably a brilliant one, because after our quick demo, this thing needs a bit more time in the oven before it can stand with the big guys for a touchscreen-only device.
The 5800 packs a built-in stylus for this reason—you'll be using it a lot.
Going beyond Nokia's proprietary sync software (for iTunes, etc) will be like in any other Symbian phone—not super convenient.
you'll probably be using T9 text entry with the touch dialpad or the stylus for most of your text entry unless you have the patience of a monk, which kind of defeats the point for an all-touch device these days.
In your minds and perception, do the above statements count as: really hating it?
Comes With Music allows you to sync albums grabbed on the web to your device over 3G, though, which is nice.
You seemed to have missed this favorable statement by the same haters. Would you say that your post was biased, a lie, or you didn't understand the material presented?
I said this in another thread but I'll repeat myself...
The problem for Nokia is that this isn't a direct competitor to the iPhone. As noted, it's under half the price of the iPhone. This is no N- or E-series smartphone. That won't stop commentators from comparing it to the iPhone as if it were equally priced though.
There seems to be a lot of ignorance on AI about the capabilities of S60. That's not surprising as this is a North America-centric site. Yes, it'll sync with iTunes. Yes, it'll sync with iSync. Yes, it's web-browser is WebKit based and supports both Flash Lite 3 (aka Flash 8) and Silverlight. No, you don't have to use the stylus for anything apart from hand-writing recognition (which isn't even mandatory).
Thanks RichL.
A very informative post, and completely neutral.
The single fact that you have to use a stylus (other than being unoriginal) makes this thing lame.
# The screen resolution is nice, but the resistive "touchscreen" aka "stylus tap screen" on this thing makes it a non-starter for anyone that has ever touched an iPhone/Touch.
Did you people read the article?
the 5800 uses a single-touch display and comes bundled with a stylus to handle aspects of the interface that can't be controlled with a finger.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
It is a touchscreen where your use your finger to control things. The stylus is included for those small keys that "can't be controlled with a finger". I personally don't like the iPhone's keyboard, due to its small size and the fact that I frequently mistype using it. A stylus to complement the touchscreen is welcoming for me as I think it would be very helpful for those emails, notes, etc where I type a lot.
Remember that the world does not always revolve around you...there are others with different needs/desires out there too. I love my mac, and love reading the latest Apple rumors here on AI...but, my God, some of you are just the most arrogant people I've seen. Wasn't Apple's old advertising campaign Think Different...that's advise I suggest to you!!
Did you people read the article?
It is a touchscreen where your use your finger to control things. The stylus is included for those small keys that "can't be controlled with a finger". I personally don't like the iPhone's keyboard, due to its small size and the fact that I frequently mistype using it. A stylus to complement the touchscreen is welcoming for me as I think it would be very helpful for those emails, notes, etc where I type a lot.
Remember that the world does not always revolve around you...there are others with different needs/desires out there too. I love my mac, and love reading the latest Apple rumors here on AI...but, my God, some of you are just the most arrogant people I've seen. Wasn't Apple's old advertising campaign Think Different...that's advise I suggest to you!!
Outstanding. BPE !!!!!!!!!
BPE = Best Post Ever
I wish the 3rd gen iPhone will have an e2e (edge to edge) screen that spans the entire front space of the iPhone. Why can't Apple place the home button at the right side of the phone and the earpiece on the chrome rim? This will allow a large 5" screen that makes video watching, game playing and web surfing much more enjoyable!
Where would the speakers, headphone jack, sim tray and microphone go? They use quite a lot of space, which is why the screen isn't the whole display. iPhone would have to be much thicker at the top and bottom to accommodate the combined thickness of the display plus the components currently in the black space.