2. I didn't say nokia is a 'has been' or a 'never was'. I said they're the largest cellphone company in the world. I doubt you can refute that.
3. I didn't say there were any subsidized N-series phones in the U.S
4. Nor did i say how much they are / will be subsidized by.
What i did say, and i will reiterate here, is that the 58xx series has historically been a low to mid range phone with emphasis on music. I didn't say the tube was going to compete with the iphone because in the past, it has not been a smartphone. I'm not saying that Nokia will dent the u.s market. What i am saying....is that nokia is going to sell a ton of these phones.
Where'd I say Nokia isn't the largest phone maker? I said they are a minority player here in the USA, with barely a reputation. Do you think that American consumers will be Nokia phones just because of its brand? Elsewhere in the world, people will buy Nokia just because of its brand, no matter how crappy the phone is. Not in the USA.
As to how much they'll sell, well, lets wait and see. What's your prediction for units? I think the resistive screen, and the need for the stylus, is not a good sign for the usability of the phone, but price makes up for a lot of deficiencies.
Quote:
My previous post was based on facts. if you want a debate, a debatable observation is that in the past, nokia hasn't been popular in the u.s because the u.s market prefers flip phone / clam shell devices, which nokia doesn't have too many of in their lineup. we can sit and lock horns about that (constructively) all day long.
You're the first person I've heard to suggest Nokia doesn't do well in the USA because it is not in their DNA to produce flip phones. Interesting proposal. But I'm somewhat skeptical. First and foremost is making agreements with the carriers to ship one's phones. Nokia has a gigantic portfolio and can offer free, low-end, mid-range, and high-end phones. Second is to have good marketing to build the brand. It seems something truly has gone awry with Nokia and American carriers such that don't offer a big portfolio through a carrier here. As for marketing, I don't think it'll be hard for me to find people who think it sucks.
Then why did you raise CDMA if you don't give a fig about it?
Because it is an example of Nokia not caring, not trying, or just being incompetent at trying to capture marketshare in the USA. CDMA has been half the American market for like a decade. You'd think the world's largest phone maker has enough resources to address it. It's really not that hard to pay a license fee either. Heck, it's not like shipping a CDMA phone has been reason number 1 or number 2 as to why Apple can't be successful with the iPhone. You'd think Apple should listen to these analysts.
You can say that Nokia has strategic goals not to support CDMA, which I can agree with. If so, you have to agree that Apple has strategic goals as well, and they are evident in what they do and don't do with the iPhone and its features.
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Also, selling the phones unsubsidised has something to do with the network providers as well, as they have to subsidise them
It's not that hard for Nokia to send a business team over to the USA and make a deal.
In what product line did they have a 30% international growth in?
Maybe the price they try and charge for some of there overseas market helps with their money making
Sorry.. more like 40 to 50% and who said anything about profit?! profit and growth are two separate things. Growth shows how your products are accepted and have nothing to do with profit (look at Xbo.. growth with loss). If you read the following AI report you will see that Mac sales figures in North America and Europe for this year are not far apart.
They moved to the high priced sales area, you get enough people paying extra for a machine (me included) and you can make a profit (eg BMW etc)
Maybe you should go back and research why Apple almost went bankrupted and how they recovered instead of making things up. You cannot make up history no matter how hard you try.
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And what is the point if you product is that much better than the competitions if you can't sell it?
You are kidding right? Which product are they struggling to sell? Macs (see the above figure)? iPods (75% market share)? iPhones (You said it yourself 19.5% market share in the smartphone market in just 3 months!)?
Please stop trying to discredit Apple success and their figures as those figures don't lie.
Because it is an example of Nokia not caring, not trying, or just being incompetent at trying to capture marketshare in the USA. CDMA has been half the American market for like a decade. You'd think the world's largest phone maker has enough resources to address it. It's really not that hard to pay a license fee either. Heck, it's not like shipping a CDMA phone has been reason number 1 or number 2 as to why Apple can't be successful with the iPhone. You'd think Apple should listen to these analysts.
Like I have said a number of times, they did try, and it is hard to pay a licence fee if you believe you shouldn't have to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THT
You can say that Nokia has strategic goals not to support CDMA, which I can agree with. If so, you have to agree that Apple has strategic goals as well, and they are evident in what they do and don't do with the iPhone and its features.
No, I said Qualcomm introduced legal avenues that stopped them from doing so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by THT
It's not that hard for Nokia to send a business team over to the USA and make a deal.
Yes it is, Qualcomm was falsely demanding money for CDMA licences/chips etc, Nokia didn't want to pay.
Please name an operator, and the plan as well. Business plan? Consumer plan? Pay as you go? I'm curious.
Also, what kind of card? SIM card? PC Card?
Many of us with Macs use Novamedia's product: Launch2Net. No need for a card. Bluetooth connection and away we go. As we are traveling around most of the time, many, including me have pre-paid cards. A few of us that are in one country more than others tend to have post-paid contracts. What kind of card? Not sure what you mean here. It is a sim card in a regular 3G phone. Pretty standard stuff.
Quote:
My work phone, obviously a business plan, allows me to tether, but it comes at a cost of at least 15+ dollars more than consumer data plan.
I tether without the need to pay an extra anything other than the standard data rates. Next week I will be in Germany with my T-Mobile card. Pre-paid, rechargeable, with data already turned on. No extra fees. Sorry that your current provider is making you pay for services that others give away but they see it as another way to gouge you.
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That's not what the suit is about. It's perfectly legal to lock phones here in the USA. It's also legal here to unlock phones (at least until the DCMA exemptions expire in 2009), it's just that the carriers don't really advertise it and don't out of their way to advertise it.
Fair enough.
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You do realize this is Appleinsider? What are you expecting? It's really not that odd. You can go to Crackberry.com, TreoCentral.com, Symbian-Freak, AllAboutSymbian, MSmobiles.com and witness the same fan behavior. For the most part, Apple forums are interesting and lively due to lots of people participating. The other sites, not so much participation, hence, not so fun. I'm sure you're more than welcome to go the other sites and say Blackberries suck, Nokia sucks or MS sucks all you want. Just don't expect people to play nicey-nicey with you.
I have no problem with fan loyalty but it seems to be to the point of excessiveness here, but then again you have a point. By the way, the Nokia forums are equally represented as here. By the way, they give away things. Any chance of that happening here?
You didn't state any facts. You stated an opinion as to why Nokia doesn't do well in the US market. At least yb1 gave a decent opinion (Nokia doesn't do flip phones) of why while yours was a rather laughable: Nokia is just doing the minimum or the USA market isn't worth the effort.
You mean to say that your 200 plus posts didn't give you insight into the obvious? It has been mentioned here many times why Nokia is not a major force in the US. The CEO of Nokia, a few months ago, even came out and said that Nokia has not been very active in the US market. They do not have to be to sell phones. Nokia also has their network biz which accounts for a nice chunk of change, so for them, they sell the network infrastructure in the US and the phones elsewhere. Also, yb1 made an excellent post, and I had nothing more to add to it. So you can stop laughing now. The fact that you seem to be whining like some pre-pubescent teenager of the obvious is really laughable. The fact remains, Nokia is not really interested in the US at this moment. I am very sure, if they were, you would see more phones for the US market. It is not this hard to understand is it?
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I'm pretty sure a boycott of making cell calls will pretty much do nothing. Try not renewing a cell phone contract or not buying a cell phone instead. Moreover, like is done elsewhere, it can only be done through legislative fiat. Unfortunately, carrier behavior is the least thing on our government's minds.
My idea of not making phone calls was one of practicality. You need the phone, and in some cases the contract, so a boycott would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. However, making less calls will result in less income and will be immediately felt where as contract renewals would take a while to get traction. Agree about the gov't thing as well.
Meteor in Ireland will. O2 in Ireland will let you.
The Swedish operators will, Estonians as well, Russian, German, Finnish, Belgium also... I had no problems in the Mid East while in Egypt (arguably Africa), Kuwait, Israel, and a few other places. They simply sold the card, asked if I want data turned on, I said yes and it was a done deal.
Not bad for a phone that will be given away for free in 6 months. Nokia is about bulk. They'll probably sell a 100 million of them in year's time.
Apple shook-up the industry and now the industry is catching up. What's next Apple?
That's a good point, and also a happy one. We NEED more iPhone competitors for one reason only: to keep apple on their toes, pushing forward and innovating. Also to punish them when they choose to ignore features that their customers want and their competitors provide.
Sorry.. more like 40 to 50% and who said anything about profit?! profit and growth are two separate things. Growth shows how your products are accepted and have nothing to do with profit (look at Xbo.. growth with loss). If you read the following AI report you will see that Mac sales figures in North America and Europe for this year are not far apart.
When you don't sell a lot of a product it is not hard to get a 40-50% growth
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE
Maybe you should go back and research why Apple almost went bankrupted and how they recovered instead of making things up. You cannot make up history no matter how hard you try.
Pardon? If you look at the products Apple sell, they are at the upper end of the price range, what part of that is made up? Maybe you should pull your head out of Apples arse and have a look for yourself
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Originally Posted by NasserAE
You are kidding right? Which product are they struggling to sell? Macs (see the above figure)? iPods (75% market share)? iPhones (You said it yourself 19.5% market share in the smartphone market in just 3 months!)?
In the US only, and only in a small sector of the phone market at that, they are hardly at 1% of the total market. Their market share for most of their products is small in Europe, that is a fact. The only product the sell a lot of is the iPod
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE
Please stop trying to discredit Apple success and their figures as those figures don't lie.
I am not. I own several Apple products, and will buy more. I am just sick to death of the fanboys that insist there is only one option of a product to purchase, the Apple experience people try and pass off is not as truthful as people make it out to be.
When you don't sell a lot of a product it is not hard to get a 40-50% growth
Pardon? If you look at the products Apple sell, they are at the upper end of the price range, what part of that is made up? Maybe you should pull your head out of Apples arse and have a look for yourself
In the US only, and only in a small sector of the phone market at that, they are hardly at 1% of the total market. Their market share for most of their products is small in Europe, that is a fact. The only product the sell a lot of is the iPod
I am not. I own several Apple products, and will buy more. I am just sick to death of the fanboys that insist there is only one option of a product to purchase, the Apple experience people try and pass off is not as truthful as people make it out to be.
Did you even read most of the BS you've just said?!
You are not providing a single number that support your theory! and from the sales figure I've just showed you Europe is buying Macs at a rate close to what is sold in North America. Where are you getting the information about not selling many products in Europe (You've just said alot of iPods and this graph shows alot of Macs and from what we are hearing not a bad number of iPhones are being sold too). It doesn't take a fanboy or a genius to interpret of these numbers.
Did you even read most of the BS you've just said?!
No, as I am generally too busy cleaning myself after reading your BS
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE
You are not providing a single number that support your theory! and from the sales figure I've just showed you Europe is buying Macs at a rate close to what is sold in North America. Where are you getting the information about not selling many products in Europe (You've just said alot of iPods and this graph shows alot of Macs and from what we are hearing not a bad number of iPhones are being sold too). It doesn't take a fanboy or a genius to interpret of these numbers.
The charts you show indicates for the last while the US sales of Macs have been around 45% to 60% of all Mac sales. There are over 6 billion people in the world, around 300 million in the US. There are numbers for you, Apple is not doing that well in the rest of the world as they are in their home market.
As for Europe, is this Apple's Europe, or the actual Europe, or the EU or what?
The only part of Europe that I have seen a large push for Apple products (exluding iPods) has been in Britain. In Ireland you don't see many at all, and a lot of people will not go for a Mac as they think it is more expensive than a Dell etc, they see no perceived benefit in OS X.
As for iPhone sales, no they are not doing well in Europe, or any other country excluding the US, that is a fact. Appleinsider is a propaganda site, just like macrumors, they are here to say positive things about Apple, and they always have a postive outlook for everything, I wouldn't really trust information from here, particularly sales figures
No, as I am generally too busy cleaning myself after reading your BS
The charts you show indicates for the last while the US sales of Macs have been around 45% to 60% of all Mac sales. There are over 6 billion people in the world, around 300 million in the US. There are numbers for you, Apple is not doing that well in the rest of the world as they are in their home market.
As for Europe, is this Apple's Europe, or the actual Europe, or the EU or what?
The only part of Europe that I have seen a large push for Apple products (exluding iPods) has been in Britain. In Ireland you don't see many at all, and a lot of people will not go for a Mac as they think it is more expensive than a Dell etc, they see no perceived benefit in OS X.
As for iPhone sales, no they are not doing well in Europe, or any other country excluding the US, that is a fact. Appleinsider is a propaganda site, just like macrumors, they are here to say positive things about Apple, and they always have a postive outlook for everything, I wouldn't really trust information from here, particularly sales figures
Reading my BS?! These are sales figures from Apple quarterly reports.The last time I checked, Apple is the only manufacturer and source for Macintosh computers.
you said Europe and you have been crying Europe since we began this argument. What Part of Europe you don't understand?! maybe you should retake geography again. It doesn't matter where in Europe they are selling their products the same way it doesn't matter at which state in the US!! As for the rest of the world, in most parts of the world people are having trouble buying food and getting education. How do you expect them to buy computers! Based on your perspective, no corporation is doing good since no single corporation can reach every single person in the planet! Even Dell have sales high in areas and non in others.
I am not going to waste my time arguing with someone whose goal is "opposition for the sake of opposition". You have no data to support your argument. You keep going in circles. You cannot accept the facts because you don't like them. It seems that you don't like Apple but for some reason you keep buying their products and keep posting on a forum for Apple news and information. You keep using cheap language once you find yourself cornered.
Reading my BS?! These are sales figures from Apple quarterly reports.The last time I checked, Apple is the only manufacturer and source for Macintosh computers.
you said Europe and you have been crying Europe since we began this argument. What Part of Europe you don't understand?! maybe you should retake geography again. It doesn't matter where in Europe they are selling their products the same way it doesn't matter at which state in the US!! As for the rest of the world, in most parts of the world people are having trouble buying food and getting education. How do you expect them to buy computers! Based on your perspective, no corporation is doing good since no single corporation can reach every single person in the planet! Even Dell have sales high in areas and non in others.
I am not going to waste my time arguing with someone whose goal is "opposition for the sake of opposition". You have no data to support your argument. You keep going in circles. You cannot accept the facts because you don't like them. It seems that you don't like Apple but for some reason you keep buying their products and keep posting on a forum for Apple news and information. You keep using cheap language once you find yourself cornered.
You my friend are a fool.
The article you linked says this on the first line
"Based on an analysis of Gartner Group's recently published estimates on domestic Macintosh sales"
What part of estimates are you having issue with?
As for Europe, some companies including Russia, some don't, some include north Africa, some don't. Like I asked, for the estimates you provided, what are the providing.
I cannot believe your head is so far up Apples arse that you cannot read the article you linked (which I don't know why I am even arguing about it as they have only guessed the numbers) proves Apple doesn't do that well outside the USA. 50% of their sales come from 5% of the worlds population!!!!!
I mentioned Europe as one example. Britian is virutally the only place in Europe with an Apple store
The article you linked says this on the first line
"Based on an analysis of Gartner Group's recently published estimates on domestic Macintosh sales"
What part of estimates are you having issue with?
As I said, do your research next time. The estimates are for Q3 2008 only. Other numbers are facts. This is from Apple Q3 2008 Report (2,496,000 vs 2,540,000 is less than 2% difference):
"Apple shipped 2,496,000 Macintosh® computers during the quarter, representing 41 percent unit growth and 43 percent revenue growth over the year-ago quarter. The Company sold 11,011,000 iPods during the quarter, representing 12 percent unit growth and seven percent revenue growth over the year-ago quarter. Quarterly iPhone? units sold were 717,000 compared to 270,000 in the year-ago-quarter."
Meteor in Ireland will. O2 in Ireland will let you.
Thank you for responding. I've checked Vodafone UK, O2 Ireland and O2 UK. Vodafone does indeed allow you to tether as it is explicitly stated. Good for them and good for its customers; however, I really don't see a free lunch. I may be confused, but Internet access seems quite expensive:
For Pay as you Talk customers, the Mobile Internet package gets you:
For £1 a day you get unlimited data access in the UK only, subject to a fair use limit of 15MB per day (100s of emails and web pages). If you use over 15MB a day then you will be charged at £2/MB, typically 5p per page.
That's like highway robbery. For Pay Monthly customers, you get:
For £1 a day you get unlimited data access in the UK only, subject to a fair use limit of 15MB per day (100s of emails and web pages). If you use over 15MB a day then we may ask you to moderate your usage. If after we have asked you to moderate your usage, you fail to do so, we reserve the right to charge you for the excessive element of your usage at your price plan's standard rate or to suspend or terminate your service in accordance with your airtime and/or price plan terms and conditions.
Is this true? Can't believe it is because I can burn through 15 MB in about 15 minutes let alone day. I'll try to check the bigger bandwidth plans.
For O2 Ireland, data plans are similar to American carriers, you can get a cheap plan or an expensive one that'll let you tether:
To access the Internet on your mobile handset you can pay per KB data charges set out in your Pay Monthly plan or you can purchase a Data Add on. The pricing for Data add ons is set out below.
Add on name... Mobile Internet 250MB
Monthly Cost... ?7.50
Monthly data Allowance... 250MB
Additional usage... 3c per MB
Mobile Internet 250MB \t
O2 Broadband add ons
You can also use your broadband handset as a modem by adding one of our broadband add ons to your existing voice price plan. Please check your handset manual to ensure your handset is HSDPA compatible and that you have a 3G Sim in your handset.
Add on name... Broadband 1GB \t
Monthly Cost... ?15.00
Monthly data Allowance... 1GB
Additional usage... 2c per MB
...
The 1 GB plan price, about $20 is a reasonable price for 1 GB. Like the Mobile Internet plan for about $10, but based on the language above, you can't tether, but no need to bother with a 250 MB limit.
For O2 UK however, not good:
Data Charges
* Unless a data or BlackBerry Bolt On is taken, your tariff will include O2 Web Daily under which data will be charged at £3 per MB up to a maximum of £1 per day (00:00am to 23:59pm). Once you have reached your maximum daily charge of £1, O2 Web Daily allows you unlimited use of Telefónica O2 UK Limited's Edge/GPRS/ 3G networks (as applicable to your handset), for personal internet use via your mobile phone. All usage must be for your private, personal and non-commercial purposes. You may not use your SIM Card:
o in, or connected to, any other device including modems;
o to allow the continuous streaming of any audio / video content, enable Voice over Internet (Voip), P2P or file sharing; or
o in such a way that adversely impacts the service to other O2 customers.
Not sure where we've gotten too here. Some operators let you tether for "free", but data rates seem really pricey, some are like the USA carriers.
Here in the states, there isn't many options like in Europe, and its mostly all or nothing. You can get a data plan with "unlimited" data (greater than 5 GB a month), or broadband/business plan that is unlimited with the ability to tether. Not much in between. But in terms of costs of services, they aren't much different, the infrastructure will have the same costs basically anywhere, with more option in Europe noted. The low amount of data isn't that great however.
I tether without the need to pay an extra anything other than the standard data rates. Next week I will be in Germany with my T-Mobile card. Pre-paid, rechargeable, with data already turned on. No extra fees. Sorry that your current provider is making you pay for services that others give away but they see it as another way to gouge you
What's your standard data rate? What are the limitations of the plan?
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I have no problem with fan loyalty but it seems to be to the point of excessiveness here, but then again you have a point. By the way, the Nokia forums are equally represented as here. By the way, they give away things. Any chance of that happening here?
TANSTAAFL.
And excessive is a vague and subjective term. People at Crackberry.com and Symbian-Freak.com seem no different in their fanaticism to me. They defend the company and the product to the point of self-delusion, but that's what being a fan is about.
Like I have said a number of times, they did try, and it is hard to pay a licence fee if you believe you shouldn't have to.
...
No, I said Qualcomm introduced legal avenues that stopped them from doing so.
...
Yes it is, Qualcomm was falsely demanding money for CDMA licences/chips etc, Nokia didn't want to pay.
Verizon Wireless currently sells a Nokia phone: the Nokia 6205. 2 if you count the Batman branded one. It's even EV-DO. The 2605 and the 7205 is suppose to come out in a few months too. However, all these phones are cheap junk that gives Nokia a bad name. I do wonder if it's just a rebranded phone from some other maker though.
Comments
THT,
1. I'm not a nokia fan.
2. I didn't say nokia is a 'has been' or a 'never was'. I said they're the largest cellphone company in the world. I doubt you can refute that.
3. I didn't say there were any subsidized N-series phones in the U.S
4. Nor did i say how much they are / will be subsidized by.
What i did say, and i will reiterate here, is that the 58xx series has historically been a low to mid range phone with emphasis on music. I didn't say the tube was going to compete with the iphone because in the past, it has not been a smartphone. I'm not saying that Nokia will dent the u.s market. What i am saying....is that nokia is going to sell a ton of these phones.
Where'd I say Nokia isn't the largest phone maker? I said they are a minority player here in the USA, with barely a reputation. Do you think that American consumers will be Nokia phones just because of its brand? Elsewhere in the world, people will buy Nokia just because of its brand, no matter how crappy the phone is. Not in the USA.
As to how much they'll sell, well, lets wait and see. What's your prediction for units? I think the resistive screen, and the need for the stylus, is not a good sign for the usability of the phone, but price makes up for a lot of deficiencies.
My previous post was based on facts. if you want a debate, a debatable observation is that in the past, nokia hasn't been popular in the u.s because the u.s market prefers flip phone / clam shell devices, which nokia doesn't have too many of in their lineup. we can sit and lock horns about that (constructively) all day long.
You're the first person I've heard to suggest Nokia doesn't do well in the USA because it is not in their DNA to produce flip phones. Interesting proposal. But I'm somewhat skeptical. First and foremost is making agreements with the carriers to ship one's phones. Nokia has a gigantic portfolio and can offer free, low-end, mid-range, and high-end phones. Second is to have good marketing to build the brand. It seems something truly has gone awry with Nokia and American carriers such that don't offer a big portfolio through a carrier here. As for marketing, I don't think it'll be hard for me to find people who think it sucks.
Then why did you raise CDMA if you don't give a fig about it?
Because it is an example of Nokia not caring, not trying, or just being incompetent at trying to capture marketshare in the USA. CDMA has been half the American market for like a decade. You'd think the world's largest phone maker has enough resources to address it. It's really not that hard to pay a license fee either. Heck, it's not like shipping a CDMA phone has been reason number 1 or number 2 as to why Apple can't be successful with the iPhone. You'd think Apple should listen to these analysts.
You can say that Nokia has strategic goals not to support CDMA, which I can agree with. If so, you have to agree that Apple has strategic goals as well, and they are evident in what they do and don't do with the iPhone and its features.
Also, selling the phones unsubsidised has something to do with the network providers as well, as they have to subsidise them
It's not that hard for Nokia to send a business team over to the USA and make a deal.
In what product line did they have a 30% international growth in?
Maybe the price they try and charge for some of there overseas market helps with their money making
Sorry.. more like 40 to 50% and who said anything about profit?! profit and growth are two separate things. Growth shows how your products are accepted and have nothing to do with profit (look at Xbo.. growth with loss). If you read the following AI report you will see that Mac sales figures in North America and Europe for this year are not far apart.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...d_quarter.html
They moved to the high priced sales area, you get enough people paying extra for a machine (me included) and you can make a profit (eg BMW etc)
Maybe you should go back and research why Apple almost went bankrupted and how they recovered instead of making things up. You cannot make up history no matter how hard you try.
And what is the point if you product is that much better than the competitions if you can't sell it?
You are kidding right? Which product are they struggling to sell? Macs (see the above figure)? iPods (75% market share)? iPhones (You said it yourself 19.5% market share in the smartphone market in just 3 months!)?
Please stop trying to discredit Apple success and their figures as those figures don't lie.
Please name an operator. I'm curious what the small print says.
Vodafone
Choose any of the countries.
Meteor in Ireland will. O2 in Ireland will let you.
Because it is an example of Nokia not caring, not trying, or just being incompetent at trying to capture marketshare in the USA. CDMA has been half the American market for like a decade. You'd think the world's largest phone maker has enough resources to address it. It's really not that hard to pay a license fee either. Heck, it's not like shipping a CDMA phone has been reason number 1 or number 2 as to why Apple can't be successful with the iPhone. You'd think Apple should listen to these analysts.
Like I have said a number of times, they did try, and it is hard to pay a licence fee if you believe you shouldn't have to.
You can say that Nokia has strategic goals not to support CDMA, which I can agree with. If so, you have to agree that Apple has strategic goals as well, and they are evident in what they do and don't do with the iPhone and its features.
No, I said Qualcomm introduced legal avenues that stopped them from doing so.
It's not that hard for Nokia to send a business team over to the USA and make a deal.
Yes it is, Qualcomm was falsely demanding money for CDMA licences/chips etc, Nokia didn't want to pay.
Please name an operator, and the plan as well. Business plan? Consumer plan? Pay as you go? I'm curious.
Also, what kind of card? SIM card? PC Card?
Many of us with Macs use Novamedia's product: Launch2Net. No need for a card. Bluetooth connection and away we go. As we are traveling around most of the time, many, including me have pre-paid cards. A few of us that are in one country more than others tend to have post-paid contracts. What kind of card? Not sure what you mean here. It is a sim card in a regular 3G phone. Pretty standard stuff.
My work phone, obviously a business plan, allows me to tether, but it comes at a cost of at least 15+ dollars more than consumer data plan.
I tether without the need to pay an extra anything other than the standard data rates. Next week I will be in Germany with my T-Mobile card. Pre-paid, rechargeable, with data already turned on. No extra fees. Sorry that your current provider is making you pay for services that others give away but they see it as another way to gouge you.
That's not what the suit is about. It's perfectly legal to lock phones here in the USA. It's also legal here to unlock phones (at least until the DCMA exemptions expire in 2009), it's just that the carriers don't really advertise it and don't out of their way to advertise it.
Fair enough.
You do realize this is Appleinsider? What are you expecting? It's really not that odd. You can go to Crackberry.com, TreoCentral.com, Symbian-Freak, AllAboutSymbian, MSmobiles.com and witness the same fan behavior. For the most part, Apple forums are interesting and lively due to lots of people participating. The other sites, not so much participation, hence, not so fun. I'm sure you're more than welcome to go the other sites and say Blackberries suck, Nokia sucks or MS sucks all you want. Just don't expect people to play nicey-nicey with you.
I have no problem with fan loyalty but it seems to be to the point of excessiveness here, but then again you have a point. By the way, the Nokia forums are equally represented as here. By the way, they give away things. Any chance of that happening here?
You didn't state any facts. You stated an opinion as to why Nokia doesn't do well in the US market. At least yb1 gave a decent opinion (Nokia doesn't do flip phones) of why while yours was a rather laughable: Nokia is just doing the minimum or the USA market isn't worth the effort.
You mean to say that your 200 plus posts didn't give you insight into the obvious? It has been mentioned here many times why Nokia is not a major force in the US. The CEO of Nokia, a few months ago, even came out and said that Nokia has not been very active in the US market. They do not have to be to sell phones. Nokia also has their network biz which accounts for a nice chunk of change, so for them, they sell the network infrastructure in the US and the phones elsewhere. Also, yb1 made an excellent post, and I had nothing more to add to it. So you can stop laughing now. The fact that you seem to be whining like some pre-pubescent teenager of the obvious is really laughable. The fact remains, Nokia is not really interested in the US at this moment. I am very sure, if they were, you would see more phones for the US market. It is not this hard to understand is it?
I'm pretty sure a boycott of making cell calls will pretty much do nothing. Try not renewing a cell phone contract or not buying a cell phone instead. Moreover, like is done elsewhere, it can only be done through legislative fiat. Unfortunately, carrier behavior is the least thing on our government's minds.
My idea of not making phone calls was one of practicality. You need the phone, and in some cases the contract, so a boycott would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. However, making less calls will result in less income and will be immediately felt where as contract renewals would take a while to get traction. Agree about the gov't thing as well.
Vodafone
Choose any of the countries.
Meteor in Ireland will. O2 in Ireland will let you.
The Swedish operators will, Estonians as well, Russian, German, Finnish, Belgium also... I had no problems in the Mid East while in Egypt (arguably Africa), Kuwait, Israel, and a few other places. They simply sold the card, asked if I want data turned on, I said yes and it was a done deal.
Not bad for a phone that will be given away for free in 6 months. Nokia is about bulk. They'll probably sell a 100 million of them in year's time.
Apple shook-up the industry and now the industry is catching up. What's next Apple?
That's a good point, and also a happy one. We NEED more iPhone competitors for one reason only: to keep apple on their toes, pushing forward and innovating. Also to punish them when they choose to ignore features that their customers want and their competitors provide.
Sorry.. more like 40 to 50% and who said anything about profit?! profit and growth are two separate things. Growth shows how your products are accepted and have nothing to do with profit (look at Xbo.. growth with loss). If you read the following AI report you will see that Mac sales figures in North America and Europe for this year are not far apart.
When you don't sell a lot of a product it is not hard to get a 40-50% growth
Maybe you should go back and research why Apple almost went bankrupted and how they recovered instead of making things up. You cannot make up history no matter how hard you try.
Pardon? If you look at the products Apple sell, they are at the upper end of the price range, what part of that is made up? Maybe you should pull your head out of Apples arse and have a look for yourself
You are kidding right? Which product are they struggling to sell? Macs (see the above figure)? iPods (75% market share)? iPhones (You said it yourself 19.5% market share in the smartphone market in just 3 months!)?
In the US only, and only in a small sector of the phone market at that, they are hardly at 1% of the total market. Their market share for most of their products is small in Europe, that is a fact. The only product the sell a lot of is the iPod
Please stop trying to discredit Apple success and their figures as those figures don't lie.
I am not. I own several Apple products, and will buy more. I am just sick to death of the fanboys that insist there is only one option of a product to purchase, the Apple experience people try and pass off is not as truthful as people make it out to be.
One word for Mr Kallasvuo: I knew Jim Valvano. Jim Valvano was a friend of mine. And you, Mr. Kallasvuo, are no Jim Valvano.
When you don't sell a lot of a product it is not hard to get a 40-50% growth
Pardon? If you look at the products Apple sell, they are at the upper end of the price range, what part of that is made up? Maybe you should pull your head out of Apples arse and have a look for yourself
In the US only, and only in a small sector of the phone market at that, they are hardly at 1% of the total market. Their market share for most of their products is small in Europe, that is a fact. The only product the sell a lot of is the iPod
I am not. I own several Apple products, and will buy more. I am just sick to death of the fanboys that insist there is only one option of a product to purchase, the Apple experience people try and pass off is not as truthful as people make it out to be.
Did you even read most of the BS you've just said?!
You are not providing a single number that support your theory! and from the sales figure I've just showed you Europe is buying Macs at a rate close to what is sold in North America. Where are you getting the information about not selling many products in Europe (You've just said alot of iPods and this graph shows alot of Macs and from what we are hearing not a bad number of iPhones are being sold too). It doesn't take a fanboy or a genius to interpret of these numbers.
Did you even read most of the BS you've just said?!
No, as I am generally too busy cleaning myself after reading your BS
You are not providing a single number that support your theory! and from the sales figure I've just showed you Europe is buying Macs at a rate close to what is sold in North America. Where are you getting the information about not selling many products in Europe (You've just said alot of iPods and this graph shows alot of Macs and from what we are hearing not a bad number of iPhones are being sold too). It doesn't take a fanboy or a genius to interpret of these numbers.
The charts you show indicates for the last while the US sales of Macs have been around 45% to 60% of all Mac sales. There are over 6 billion people in the world, around 300 million in the US. There are numbers for you, Apple is not doing that well in the rest of the world as they are in their home market.
As for Europe, is this Apple's Europe, or the actual Europe, or the EU or what?
The only part of Europe that I have seen a large push for Apple products (exluding iPods) has been in Britain. In Ireland you don't see many at all, and a lot of people will not go for a Mac as they think it is more expensive than a Dell etc, they see no perceived benefit in OS X.
As for iPhone sales, no they are not doing well in Europe, or any other country excluding the US, that is a fact. Appleinsider is a propaganda site, just like macrumors, they are here to say positive things about Apple, and they always have a postive outlook for everything, I wouldn't really trust information from here, particularly sales figures
No, as I am generally too busy cleaning myself after reading your BS
The charts you show indicates for the last while the US sales of Macs have been around 45% to 60% of all Mac sales. There are over 6 billion people in the world, around 300 million in the US. There are numbers for you, Apple is not doing that well in the rest of the world as they are in their home market.
As for Europe, is this Apple's Europe, or the actual Europe, or the EU or what?
The only part of Europe that I have seen a large push for Apple products (exluding iPods) has been in Britain. In Ireland you don't see many at all, and a lot of people will not go for a Mac as they think it is more expensive than a Dell etc, they see no perceived benefit in OS X.
As for iPhone sales, no they are not doing well in Europe, or any other country excluding the US, that is a fact. Appleinsider is a propaganda site, just like macrumors, they are here to say positive things about Apple, and they always have a postive outlook for everything, I wouldn't really trust information from here, particularly sales figures
Reading my BS?! These are sales figures from Apple quarterly reports.The last time I checked, Apple is the only manufacturer and source for Macintosh computers.
you said Europe and you have been crying Europe since we began this argument. What Part of Europe you don't understand?! maybe you should retake geography again. It doesn't matter where in Europe they are selling their products the same way it doesn't matter at which state in the US!! As for the rest of the world, in most parts of the world people are having trouble buying food and getting education. How do you expect them to buy computers! Based on your perspective, no corporation is doing good since no single corporation can reach every single person in the planet! Even Dell have sales high in areas and non in others.
I am not going to waste my time arguing with someone whose goal is "opposition for the sake of opposition". You have no data to support your argument. You keep going in circles. You cannot accept the facts because you don't like them. It seems that you don't like Apple but for some reason you keep buying their products and keep posting on a forum for Apple news and information. You keep using cheap language once you find yourself cornered.
Reading my BS?! These are sales figures from Apple quarterly reports.The last time I checked, Apple is the only manufacturer and source for Macintosh computers.
you said Europe and you have been crying Europe since we began this argument. What Part of Europe you don't understand?! maybe you should retake geography again. It doesn't matter where in Europe they are selling their products the same way it doesn't matter at which state in the US!! As for the rest of the world, in most parts of the world people are having trouble buying food and getting education. How do you expect them to buy computers! Based on your perspective, no corporation is doing good since no single corporation can reach every single person in the planet! Even Dell have sales high in areas and non in others.
I am not going to waste my time arguing with someone whose goal is "opposition for the sake of opposition". You have no data to support your argument. You keep going in circles. You cannot accept the facts because you don't like them. It seems that you don't like Apple but for some reason you keep buying their products and keep posting on a forum for Apple news and information. You keep using cheap language once you find yourself cornered.
You my friend are a fool.
The article you linked says this on the first line
"Based on an analysis of Gartner Group's recently published estimates on domestic Macintosh sales"
What part of estimates are you having issue with?
As for Europe, some companies including Russia, some don't, some include north Africa, some don't. Like I asked, for the estimates you provided, what are the providing.
I cannot believe your head is so far up Apples arse that you cannot read the article you linked (which I don't know why I am even arguing about it as they have only guessed the numbers) proves Apple doesn't do that well outside the USA. 50% of their sales come from 5% of the worlds population!!!!!
I mentioned Europe as one example. Britian is virutally the only place in Europe with an Apple store
You my friend are a fool.
The article you linked says this on the first line
"Based on an analysis of Gartner Group's recently published estimates on domestic Macintosh sales"
What part of estimates are you having issue with?
As I said, do your research next time. The estimates are for Q3 2008 only. Other numbers are facts. This is from Apple Q3 2008 Report (2,496,000 vs 2,540,000 is less than 2% difference):
"Apple shipped 2,496,000 Macintosh® computers during the quarter, representing 41 percent unit growth and 43 percent revenue growth over the year-ago quarter. The Company sold 11,011,000 iPods during the quarter, representing 12 percent unit growth and seven percent revenue growth over the year-ago quarter. Quarterly iPhone? units sold were 717,000 compared to 270,000 in the year-ago-quarter."
Vodafone
Choose any of the countries.
Meteor in Ireland will. O2 in Ireland will let you.
Thank you for responding. I've checked Vodafone UK, O2 Ireland and O2 UK. Vodafone does indeed allow you to tether as it is explicitly stated. Good for them and good for its customers; however, I really don't see a free lunch. I may be confused, but Internet access seems quite expensive:
For Pay as you Talk customers, the Mobile Internet package gets you:
For £1 a day you get unlimited data access in the UK only, subject to a fair use limit of 15MB per day (100s of emails and web pages). If you use over 15MB a day then you will be charged at £2/MB, typically 5p per page.
That's like highway robbery. For Pay Monthly customers, you get:
For £1 a day you get unlimited data access in the UK only, subject to a fair use limit of 15MB per day (100s of emails and web pages). If you use over 15MB a day then we may ask you to moderate your usage. If after we have asked you to moderate your usage, you fail to do so, we reserve the right to charge you for the excessive element of your usage at your price plan's standard rate or to suspend or terminate your service in accordance with your airtime and/or price plan terms and conditions.
Is this true? Can't believe it is because I can burn through 15 MB in about 15 minutes let alone day. I'll try to check the bigger bandwidth plans.
For O2 Ireland, data plans are similar to American carriers, you can get a cheap plan or an expensive one that'll let you tether:
Data pricing: Mobile Phones and Broadband
Internet on your Mobile
To access the Internet on your mobile handset you can pay per KB data charges set out in your Pay Monthly plan or you can purchase a Data Add on. The pricing for Data add ons is set out below.
Add on name... Mobile Internet 250MB
Monthly Cost... ?7.50
Monthly data Allowance... 250MB
Additional usage... 3c per MB
Mobile Internet 250MB \t
O2 Broadband add ons
You can also use your broadband handset as a modem by adding one of our broadband add ons to your existing voice price plan. Please check your handset manual to ensure your handset is HSDPA compatible and that you have a 3G Sim in your handset.
Add on name... Broadband 1GB \t
Monthly Cost... ?15.00
Monthly data Allowance... 1GB
Additional usage... 2c per MB
...
The 1 GB plan price, about $20 is a reasonable price for 1 GB. Like the Mobile Internet plan for about $10, but based on the language above, you can't tether, but no need to bother with a 250 MB limit.
For O2 UK however, not good:
Data Charges
* Unless a data or BlackBerry Bolt On is taken, your tariff will include O2 Web Daily under which data will be charged at £3 per MB up to a maximum of £1 per day (00:00am to 23:59pm). Once you have reached your maximum daily charge of £1, O2 Web Daily allows you unlimited use of Telefónica O2 UK Limited's Edge/GPRS/ 3G networks (as applicable to your handset), for personal internet use via your mobile phone. All usage must be for your private, personal and non-commercial purposes. You may not use your SIM Card:
o in, or connected to, any other device including modems;
o to allow the continuous streaming of any audio / video content, enable Voice over Internet (Voip), P2P or file sharing; or
o in such a way that adversely impacts the service to other O2 customers.
Not sure where we've gotten too here. Some operators let you tether for "free", but data rates seem really pricey, some are like the USA carriers.
Here in the states, there isn't many options like in Europe, and its mostly all or nothing. You can get a data plan with "unlimited" data (greater than 5 GB a month), or broadband/business plan that is unlimited with the ability to tether. Not much in between. But in terms of costs of services, they aren't much different, the infrastructure will have the same costs basically anywhere, with more option in Europe noted. The low amount of data isn't that great however.
I tether without the need to pay an extra anything other than the standard data rates. Next week I will be in Germany with my T-Mobile card. Pre-paid, rechargeable, with data already turned on. No extra fees. Sorry that your current provider is making you pay for services that others give away but they see it as another way to gouge you
What's your standard data rate? What are the limitations of the plan?
I have no problem with fan loyalty but it seems to be to the point of excessiveness here, but then again you have a point. By the way, the Nokia forums are equally represented as here. By the way, they give away things. Any chance of that happening here?
TANSTAAFL.
And excessive is a vague and subjective term. People at Crackberry.com and Symbian-Freak.com seem no different in their fanaticism to me. They defend the company and the product to the point of self-delusion, but that's what being a fan is about.
What's your standard data rate? What are the limitations of the plan?
Unlimited data@ 384 or 512 kb/sec. No limitations. All you can eat.
Like I have said a number of times, they did try, and it is hard to pay a licence fee if you believe you shouldn't have to.
...
No, I said Qualcomm introduced legal avenues that stopped them from doing so.
...
Yes it is, Qualcomm was falsely demanding money for CDMA licences/chips etc, Nokia didn't want to pay.
Verizon Wireless currently sells a Nokia phone: the Nokia 6205. 2 if you count the Batman branded one. It's even EV-DO. The 2605 and the 7205 is suppose to come out in a few months too. However, all these phones are cheap junk that gives Nokia a bad name. I do wonder if it's just a rebranded phone from some other maker though.