I think I see the prob. From the MacInTouch site you use, and sent me to:
Meanwhile, Amazon is discounting FireWire MacBooks - get 'em while you can! Last week's MacBook Pro models are on sale, too, priced from $1444, only as long as supplies last... Or get one of Apple's latest laptops with a $5 Amazon discount:
aluminum MacBook
new MacBook Pro
new MacBook Air
I think you may have confused the "$5 discount" with the $50 rebate. The latter started just today on the new 'luminum MacBooks.
Or, one or both of us is on some heavy drugs they should've shared with the other.
...
My days on drugs are long over. What I need is sleep!
The MBP statement is getting just a bit tiring, you know?
yeah got it...
that's kinda my point - i'm sick of hearing it too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
If you want the truth, I'll tell you. If you have a real business, your accountant would tell you to buy your equipment as capital expenses. Then you would depreciate it. Over that time period, you would find the difference in price between a MacBook and a MBP to be very little.
just because i can depreciate it doesn't mean i want to purchase a MBP
i'm one of those who wants the smaller, lighter but one that works
i would have though that the fact that i have a 2008 mac pro at home would say that upgrading is not really the issue - but it's precisely that - having an (overpowered) mac pro at home means i don't have the need for an MBP.
however even a 'real business' has to get the money from somewhere
especially now that credit is a little hard to come by.
anyway i get what your saying and it's one point of view among many...
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
I'm quite aware of what they say. but you should understand that what they say isn't always as accurate for actual use as the specs make it seem. Where is that 45 watt port? Even for most FW devices you must still plug into power. Using the battery drains your laptop too quickly.
The overhead is BS these days, and Apple knows it.
They will encourage professional FW use on their pro machines, because few PC's have it built-in. Sometimes even pros balk at buying a card, because they need the slots for other, more important equipment.
ok whatever we're going circles - i'm not sure of your attitude to Apple
but i kinda note that a lot of people on these boards say Apple is always right
(ie their decision to remove FW must be right - hey this is APPLE we're talking about)
until it suits their argument to point out that Apple must be wrong...
Hey, HERE'S an important question (to me, at least) that I want to throw out to everybody:
I need/want a new notebook ASAP... my old iBook G4 has served valiantly, but needs to be put out to pasture.
There's a RIDICULOUSLY good deal at Amazon right now on the previous gen MacBook Pro... with rebate, I can get it for $1444. Kind of a steal. And as I've stated before, Steve isn't getting me to lay out two grand just to get a 15" screen, not now, not ever.
Its competition for my $$$: The new $1299 MetalBook ($1244 at Amazon), which isn't exactly wowing me, what with the evisceration of FireWire n' all. But I do like the somewhat-better gaming performance, at least.
Can anyone give me a good reason, other than the $200 price diff, why I'd go with the new MetalBook instead of the old 15" MB Pro? Is there anything about the previous gen 15" MB Pro that ppl really don't like? Has it run particularly hot for anyone?(I hate that).
Hey, HERE'S an important question (to me, at least) that I want to throw out to everybody:
I need/want a new notebook ASAP... my old iBook G4 has served valiantly, but needs to be put out to pasture.
There's a RIDICULOUSLY good deal at Amazon right now on the previous gen MacBook Pro... with rebate, I can get it for $1444. Kind of a steal. And as I've stated before, Steve isn't getting me to lay out two grand just to get a 15" screen, not now, not ever.
Its competition for my $$$: The new $1299 MetalBook ($1244 at Amazon), which isn't exactly wowing me, what with the evisceration of FireWire n' all. But I do like the somewhat-better gaming performance, at least.
Can anyone give me a good reason, other than the $200 price diff, why I'd go with the new MetalBook instead of the old 15" MB Pro? Is there anything about the previous gen 15" MB Pro that ppl really don't like? Has it run particularly hot for anyone?(I hate that).
Inquiring minds wish to know.
...
Well, it looks like you really try to take the most out of your investment since your powerbook served you for quite a while.
If you don't mind the firewire lack and the extra expense of a video adapter you should go close eyes with the new one. I think you intend it to last at least 3 years and by that Snow Leopard must be the primary OS. The new MacBook not only looks like new generation and will support better Snow Leopard, its video card is powerful enough to drive anything from games to work. The bus and memory are way faster than the MBP at amazon and is sturdy as it. Also, that one wont give you a better gaming experience.
The new MBP will deliver a lot of performance for a petite price considering what Apple was offering months ago.
There's a RIDICULOUSLY good deal at Amazon right now on the previous gen MacBook Pro... with rebate, I can get it for $1444. Kind of a steal. And as I've stated before, Steve isn't getting me to lay out two grand just to get a 15" screen, not now, not ever.
...
Can anyone give me a good reason, other than the $200 price diff, why I'd go with the new MetalBook instead of the old 15" MB Pro? Is there anything about the previous gen 15" MB Pro that ppl really don't like? Has it run particularly hot for anyone?(I hate that).
The new MB (and MBP) will run cooler but the previous gen MBP is much better than my 1 gen MBP heat wise. If you want a 15" screen get the MBP...$1444 is a great price for a MBP. Size wise the MB and MBP aren't THAT different to haul around. You also get expresscard which will likely be more useful in the long run than FW given how long you keep your machines.
That said, that there's even a decision to make speaks volumes. The performance delta is now very small. A little bit of GPU performance and a couple ports.
that's kinda my point - i'm sick of hearing it too.
For $1444 you should just quit whining and get the MBP that TBaggins is considering.
Quote:
just because i can depreciate it doesn't mean i want to purchase a MBP
i'm one of those who wants the smaller, lighter but one that works
The size isn't all that different as previous pictures has shown.
Quote:
ok whatever we're going circles - i'm not sure of your attitude to Apple
but i kinda note that a lot of people on these boards say Apple is always right
(ie their decision to remove FW must be right - hey this is APPLE we're talking about)
until it suits their argument to point out that Apple must be wrong...
No one has said that Apple is always right. That's another strawman argument. However, just because you disagree with one of their decisions doesn't make it wrong either.
Removing FW this generation will piss folks off but allows them to continue to segment their markets into two. Before they used graphics (another $5 part difference). Now they use FW/Expresscard and that has a far lower impact to adoption than graphics.
Both the MB and Mini suffered greatly when they lost discrete graphics. Now the MB is fixed. Hopefully soon the Mini will be fixed too.
But as I've said earlier, I do think Apple dropped FW too early. This maker, and others, will convert their products to USB 3 once it's out, and when the handwriting on the wall now, is rewritten in bold, capital letters.
2006 would have been too soon but with FW's wane this is really the first time they could. A tad aggressive but I think the lack of graphics capabilities on the MB has been hurting them enough they did it now before USB3 was available.
They have ALWAYS had the option of better intergrated GPUs on the MB and mini and folks have hammered them for that as well. Why do I need to get a MBP to play games, blah blah? Apple is stupid, blah blah. There was significant bitching about the Intel Mini vs the G4 mini in terms of graphics and the fact that aTV has a real GPU when the Mini doesn't.
Whether FW disappears on the Mini is debatable. But losing FW on the Mini to get better graphics is a good trade as opposed to staying with intel GMAs.
2006 would have been too soon but with FW's wane this is really the first time they could. A tad aggressive but I think the lack of graphics capabilities on the MB has been hurting them enough they did it now before USB3 was available.
They have ALWAYS had the option of better intergrated GPUs on the MB and mini and folks have hammered them for that as well. Why do I need to get a MBP to play games, blah blah? Apple is stupid, blah blah. There was significant bitching about the Intel Mini vs the G4 mini in terms of graphics and the fact that aTV has a real GPU when the Mini doesn't.
Whether FW disappears on the Mini is debatable. But losing FW on the Mini to get better graphics is a good trade as opposed to staying with intel GMAs.
can you please explain how / why you want to trade graphics for connectivity?
hmm... are you going to use cost or space arguments.
strawman anyone ? (yes i looked it up, you americans are all about fighting !?)
oh and the "wane" - yes can you back that up too pls?
thanks
you mentioned 78% of cams in 2007 had FW with 88% sometime before
(i deliberately left the figures wrong so that you could disagree and correct me )
now 85% to 77% would be a trend wouldn't it...
except that you haven't taken into account whether the cam market is expanding or shrinking
and from which ends
eg if the lower end is expanding (and generally in IT it is) while the upper end is static (?)
then FW might just be 'excluded' from a lower expanding end
which means USB is for all the lower quality cams
(which would make sense for a number of reasons)
then to link this back to your apple "consumer market" you'd have to
justify whether the apple MB purchaser actually buys the lower end USB cams
or the upper end FW cams...
since the MB is clearly priced at the higher end purchaser - despite a number claims that it's most often purchased by joe the cleaner.
can you please explain how / why you want to trade graphics for connectivity?
hmm... are you going to use cost or space arguments.
strawman anyone ? (yes i looked it up, you americans are all about fighting !?)
oh and the "wane" - yes can you back that up too pls?
thanks
you mentioned 78% of cams in 2007 had FW with 88% sometime before
(i deliberately left the figures wrong so that you could disagree and correct me )
now 85% to 77% would be a trend wouldn't it...
except that you haven't taken into account whether the cam market is expanding or shrinking
and from which ends
eg if the lower end is expanding (and generally in IT it is) while the upper end is static (?)
then FW might just be 'excluded' from a lower expanding end
which means USB is for all the lower quality cams
(which would make sense for a number of reasons)
then to link this back to your apple "consumer market" you'd have to
justify whether the apple MB purchaser actually buys the lower end USB cams
or the upper end FW cams...
since the MB is clearly priced at the higher end purchaser - despite a number claims that it's most often purchased by joe the cleaner.
off you go - do your best !
yes i'll quit "whining" and purchase an MBP
when you provide one good reason i should do that
Vinea doesn't do reasons. He just has blind faith that Apple is always right in its actions. But if we've learned from anything from the Iphone, if there's enough public outcry, Apple can change its mistakes.
actually the only decent interface on the list is the MOTU 828 mkII
Dunno...not an audio guy which is why I refrained from listing these earlier.
But yamaha and m-audio seem like respected brands. Is there something wrong with the M-Audio FastTrack Series? The FastTrack 8R is 8x8. Folks seem to recommend the FastTrack.
Quote:
and honestly it surprised me to see that they have USB for it
although i suspect it could be just a ZZsounds typo
Seems that it would have been easier just to go to Motu's website.
then i looked it up and saw that for the MkIII version
they've gone back to FW only... \
I'm going to bet they'll add a USB2 version for the Mk III.
"A new era in sleek, stylish mobile studio recording has arrived, and your MOTU software and hardware products are ready ? today. USB2 connectivity with the new 13-inch MacBook is just the beginning."
Dunno...not an audio guy which is why I refrained from listing these earlier.
But yamaha and m-audio seem like respected brands. Is there something wrong with the M-Audio FastTrack Series? The FastTrack 8R is 8x8. Folks seem to recommend the FastTrack.
most of those ones only have stereo out.
where USB falls down is providing multi-in-multi out
(which the fastrack seems to - i'll have to look at the reviews)
even the endorsement of it on their site is kinda sarcastic
Quote:
?Up until I started playing with the Fast Track Ultra I hadn't met a USB interface that I liked . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
Seems that it would have been easier just to go to Motu's website.
yes but you'll notice that there's no USB connection on the unit
which means that you have to use a FW to USB adapter
(essentially the intelligence of the unit plays dumb and the host controls)
which you can do with a number of FW units
i was looking for reviews to see if anyone had performance data
but no one was stupid enough to try it
and if so the latency problems which are bound to occur on everything except perhaps an 8 core MP with optimised software (logic 8)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
I'm going to bet they'll add a USB2 version for the Mk III.
"A new era in sleek, stylish mobile studio recording has arrived, and your MOTU software and hardware products are ready ? today. USB2 connectivity with the new 13-inch MacBook is just the beginning."
i'm sure your not
but don't go confusing their 'new era' statements by thinking they're talking about USB
they're just trying to cover apple's stuff up (and slap in the face to them)
(and not lose the hoards of people trying to find a good interface for their new MB)
by telling people that you can still go back down in tech from FW to USB2
i'm not being facitious there - i think we could both agree that FW is better for that kinda thing (multi-track audio).
sorry i have no justification for the use of the word "hoards"
can you please explain how / why you want to trade graphics for connectivity?
I already have. Apple wants to segment consumer and pro markets. They did that in the past with graphics. They do that today with connectivity.
Would I want a 13" MBP with FW800 and discrete graphics for $1299? Sure. Will we get it? No.
Quote:
oh and the "wane" - yes can you back that up too pls?
thanks
you mentioned 78% of cams in 2007 had FW with 88% sometime before
(i deliberately left the figures wrong so that you could disagree and correct me )
I already did and you already read that link so it's already backed up. Given that the break down is not by market segment, the additional information you wish is not there.
However, given that the MB IS a consumer laptop AND the most likely place for USB to overtake FW on camcorders is in the lower end consumer space the conclusion you draw is likely.
But it also doesn't support your position that the loss of FW is terrible for the average consumer.
Quote:
then to link this back to your apple "consumer market" you'd have to
justify whether the apple MB purchaser actually buys the lower end USB cams
or the upper end FW cams...
Just to try and convince someone that regardless of how many links I produce for you will ask for ever increasing detail? No thanks. The market will decide. If moving away from FW for the MB is a terrible mistake the market will punish Apple for it.
Of course, folks who claim that losing FW is a terrible mistake also claim this wont happen...mmmkay. It was so catastrophic a decision but Apple will sell more MB than ever anyway...okay, whatever.
Quote:
yes i'll quit "whining" and purchase an MBP
when you provide one good reason i should do that
How about just quitting whining? As shown, there ARE USB devices for Audio. While the choices are slimmer than before until manufacturers catch up there certainly ARE consumer/prosumer (and low end pro) devices from respected brands available on USB today. likewise there are consumer/prosumer (and low end pro) camcorders from respected brands available on USB today.
yes but you'll notice that there's no USB connection on the unit which means that you have to use a FW to USB adapter (essentially the intelligence of the unit plays dumb and the host controls) which you can do with a number of FW units
"the 828mkII includes 16-channels of MIDI input and output via its hi-speed USB 2.0 connection to the computer. Simply plug in your USB cable, and both MIDI and audio are ready to go. Connect any MIDI device, such as a controller keyboard, synth module, automated control surface or drum machine. Timing is sample-accurate with supporting software."
Hey, look...google found me a picture of the MKII with a USB port in the back. That was sure harder than making stuff up about needing an adapter...
Quote:
i was looking for reviews to see if anyone had performance data but no one was stupid enough to try it
and if so the latency problems which are bound to occur on everything except perhaps an 8 core MP with optimised software (logic 8)
Yes, no one was stupid enough to try it but Motu was stupid enough to build one.
Google is your friend:
"Sorry, but again I have to disagree, when I'm getting 24/96 on my USB2.0 with multiple tracks, and my friend runs a MOTU 828MkII USB2.0 with 8 tracks at a time. No glitch, low latency."
"the 828mkII includes 16-channels of MIDI input and output via its hi-speed USB 2.0 connection to the computer. Simply plug in your USB cable, and both MIDI and audio are ready to go. Connect any MIDI device, such as a controller keyboard, synth module, automated control surface or drum machine. Timing is sample-accurate with supporting software."
"Sorry, but again I have to disagree, when I'm getting 24/96 on my USB2.0 with multiple tracks, and my friend runs a MOTU 828MkII USB2.0 with 8 tracks at a time. No glitch, low latency."
--at a friend's small studio (control room, fairly nice booth). Why did he go with this over other things? He "ear'd" the preamps and liked this one for some reason (and a Tascam at that, too!). Latency... not a problem at all (Mac Pro he picked up four months ago).
I've used the Motu's (both firewire and USB), and they're about the same. It used to be that only the firewire interfaces worked well (for any of the interfaces, not particularly the Motu USB). The drivers have gotten much better for USB interfaces, and the machines have gotten more powerful.
Me, I have to think they may have taken the firewire off a mite early (so many small video cameras people still own, even if they're slowly buying new ones with USB), but a choice is a choice, and I don't know if Apple's going back... but maybe. My nine-year-old's video camera is firewire, so I have to keep some computers still with it. I don't use the Macbook for anything (always Mac Pro's and MBP's), but....
Comments
I think I see the prob. From the MacInTouch site you use, and sent me to:
Meanwhile, Amazon is discounting FireWire MacBooks - get 'em while you can! Last week's MacBook Pro models are on sale, too, priced from $1444, only as long as supplies last... Or get one of Apple's latest laptops with a $5 Amazon discount:
aluminum MacBook
new MacBook Pro
new MacBook Air
I think you may have confused the "$5 discount" with the $50 rebate. The latter started just today on the new 'luminum MacBooks.
Or, one or both of us is on some heavy drugs they should've shared with the other.
...
My days on drugs are long over. What I need is sleep!
The MBP statement is getting just a bit tiring, you know?
yeah got it...
that's kinda my point - i'm sick of hearing it too.
If you want the truth, I'll tell you. If you have a real business, your accountant would tell you to buy your equipment as capital expenses. Then you would depreciate it. Over that time period, you would find the difference in price between a MacBook and a MBP to be very little.
just because i can depreciate it doesn't mean i want to purchase a MBP
i'm one of those who wants the smaller, lighter but one that works
i would have though that the fact that i have a 2008 mac pro at home would say that upgrading is not really the issue - but it's precisely that - having an (overpowered) mac pro at home means i don't have the need for an MBP.
however even a 'real business' has to get the money from somewhere
especially now that credit is a little hard to come by.
anyway i get what your saying and it's one point of view among many...
I'm quite aware of what they say. but you should understand that what they say isn't always as accurate for actual use as the specs make it seem. Where is that 45 watt port? Even for most FW devices you must still plug into power. Using the battery drains your laptop too quickly.
The overhead is BS these days, and Apple knows it.
They will encourage professional FW use on their pro machines, because few PC's have it built-in. Sometimes even pros balk at buying a card, because they need the slots for other, more important equipment.
ok whatever we're going circles - i'm not sure of your attitude to Apple
but i kinda note that a lot of people on these boards say Apple is always right
(ie their decision to remove FW must be right - hey this is APPLE we're talking about)
until it suits their argument to point out that Apple must be wrong...
Macconnection has offered a $75 rebate on the new $1299 MacBook and $100 on the $1599 model for at least a week. And I'm not on drugs either.
I don't think you are, since MacCon has little to do with whether or not Amazon was offering a rebate.
However, you have my permission to start being on drugs if you so choose. I'm pretty libertarian that way.
...
My days on drugs are long over. What I need is sleep!
I feel for ya. I'm the worst insomniac, even on my 'comfiest bed ever' (TempurPedic).
...
I need/want a new notebook ASAP... my old iBook G4 has served valiantly, but needs to be put out to pasture.
There's a RIDICULOUSLY good deal at Amazon right now on the previous gen MacBook Pro... with rebate, I can get it for $1444. Kind of a steal. And as I've stated before, Steve isn't getting me to lay out two grand just to get a 15" screen, not now, not ever.
Its competition for my $$$: The new $1299 MetalBook ($1244 at Amazon), which isn't exactly wowing me, what with the evisceration of FireWire n' all.
Can anyone give me a good reason, other than the $200 price diff, why I'd go with the new MetalBook instead of the old 15" MB Pro? Is there anything about the previous gen 15" MB Pro that ppl really don't like? Has it run particularly hot for anyone?(I hate that).
Inquiring minds wish to know.
...
Hey, HERE'S an important question (to me, at least) that I want to throw out to everybody:
I need/want a new notebook ASAP... my old iBook G4 has served valiantly, but needs to be put out to pasture.
There's a RIDICULOUSLY good deal at Amazon right now on the previous gen MacBook Pro... with rebate, I can get it for $1444. Kind of a steal. And as I've stated before, Steve isn't getting me to lay out two grand just to get a 15" screen, not now, not ever.
Its competition for my $$$: The new $1299 MetalBook ($1244 at Amazon), which isn't exactly wowing me, what with the evisceration of FireWire n' all.
Can anyone give me a good reason, other than the $200 price diff, why I'd go with the new MetalBook instead of the old 15" MB Pro? Is there anything about the previous gen 15" MB Pro that ppl really don't like? Has it run particularly hot for anyone?(I hate that).
Inquiring minds wish to know.
...
Well, it looks like you really try to take the most out of your investment since your powerbook served you for quite a while.
If you don't mind the firewire lack and the extra expense of a video adapter you should go close eyes with the new one. I think you intend it to last at least 3 years and by that Snow Leopard must be the primary OS. The new MacBook not only looks like new generation and will support better Snow Leopard, its video card is powerful enough to drive anything from games to work. The bus and memory are way faster than the MBP at amazon and is sturdy as it. Also, that one wont give you a better gaming experience.
The new MBP will deliver a lot of performance for a petite price considering what Apple was offering months ago.
There's a RIDICULOUSLY good deal at Amazon right now on the previous gen MacBook Pro... with rebate, I can get it for $1444. Kind of a steal. And as I've stated before, Steve isn't getting me to lay out two grand just to get a 15" screen, not now, not ever.
...
Can anyone give me a good reason, other than the $200 price diff, why I'd go with the new MetalBook instead of the old 15" MB Pro? Is there anything about the previous gen 15" MB Pro that ppl really don't like? Has it run particularly hot for anyone?(I hate that).
The new MB (and MBP) will run cooler but the previous gen MBP is much better than my 1 gen MBP heat wise. If you want a 15" screen get the MBP...$1444 is a great price for a MBP. Size wise the MB and MBP aren't THAT different to haul around. You also get expresscard which will likely be more useful in the long run than FW given how long you keep your machines.
That said, that there's even a decision to make speaks volumes. The performance delta is now very small. A little bit of GPU performance and a couple ports.
yeah got it...
that's kinda my point - i'm sick of hearing it too.
For $1444 you should just quit whining and get the MBP that TBaggins is considering.
just because i can depreciate it doesn't mean i want to purchase a MBP
i'm one of those who wants the smaller, lighter but one that works
The size isn't all that different as previous pictures has shown.
ok whatever we're going circles - i'm not sure of your attitude to Apple
but i kinda note that a lot of people on these boards say Apple is always right
(ie their decision to remove FW must be right - hey this is APPLE we're talking about)
until it suits their argument to point out that Apple must be wrong...
No one has said that Apple is always right. That's another strawman argument. However, just because you disagree with one of their decisions doesn't make it wrong either.
Removing FW this generation will piss folks off but allows them to continue to segment their markets into two. Before they used graphics (another $5 part difference). Now they use FW/Expresscard and that has a far lower impact to adoption than graphics.
Both the MB and Mini suffered greatly when they lost discrete graphics. Now the MB is fixed. Hopefully soon the Mini will be fixed too.
But as I've said earlier, I do think Apple dropped FW too early. This maker, and others, will convert their products to USB 3 once it's out, and when the handwriting on the wall now, is rewritten in bold, capital letters.
2006 would have been too soon but with FW's wane this is really the first time they could. A tad aggressive but I think the lack of graphics capabilities on the MB has been hurting them enough they did it now before USB3 was available.
They have ALWAYS had the option of better intergrated GPUs on the MB and mini and folks have hammered them for that as well. Why do I need to get a MBP to play games, blah blah? Apple is stupid, blah blah. There was significant bitching about the Intel Mini vs the G4 mini in terms of graphics and the fact that aTV has a real GPU when the Mini doesn't.
Whether FW disappears on the Mini is debatable. But losing FW on the Mini to get better graphics is a good trade as opposed to staying with intel GMAs.
2006 would have been too soon but with FW's wane this is really the first time they could. A tad aggressive but I think the lack of graphics capabilities on the MB has been hurting them enough they did it now before USB3 was available.
They have ALWAYS had the option of better intergrated GPUs on the MB and mini and folks have hammered them for that as well. Why do I need to get a MBP to play games, blah blah? Apple is stupid, blah blah. There was significant bitching about the Intel Mini vs the G4 mini in terms of graphics and the fact that aTV has a real GPU when the Mini doesn't.
Whether FW disappears on the Mini is debatable. But losing FW on the Mini to get better graphics is a good trade as opposed to staying with intel GMAs.
can you please explain how / why you want to trade graphics for connectivity?
hmm... are you going to use cost or space arguments.
strawman anyone ? (yes i looked it up, you americans are all about fighting !?)
oh and the "wane" - yes can you back that up too pls?
thanks
you mentioned 78% of cams in 2007 had FW with 88% sometime before
(i deliberately left the figures wrong so that you could disagree and correct me
now 85% to 77% would be a trend wouldn't it...
except that you haven't taken into account whether the cam market is expanding or shrinking
and from which ends
eg if the lower end is expanding (and generally in IT it is) while the upper end is static (?)
then FW might just be 'excluded' from a lower expanding end
which means USB is for all the lower quality cams
(which would make sense for a number of reasons)
then to link this back to your apple "consumer market" you'd have to
justify whether the apple MB purchaser actually buys the lower end USB cams
or the upper end FW cams...
since the MB is clearly priced at the higher end purchaser - despite a number claims that it's most often purchased by joe the cleaner.
off you go - do your best !
yes i'll quit "whining" and purchase an MBP
when you provide one good reason i should do that
can you please explain how / why you want to trade graphics for connectivity?
hmm... are you going to use cost or space arguments.
strawman anyone ? (yes i looked it up, you americans are all about fighting !?)
oh and the "wane" - yes can you back that up too pls?
thanks
you mentioned 78% of cams in 2007 had FW with 88% sometime before
(i deliberately left the figures wrong so that you could disagree and correct me
now 85% to 77% would be a trend wouldn't it...
except that you haven't taken into account whether the cam market is expanding or shrinking
and from which ends
eg if the lower end is expanding (and generally in IT it is) while the upper end is static (?)
then FW might just be 'excluded' from a lower expanding end
which means USB is for all the lower quality cams
(which would make sense for a number of reasons)
then to link this back to your apple "consumer market" you'd have to
justify whether the apple MB purchaser actually buys the lower end USB cams
or the upper end FW cams...
since the MB is clearly priced at the higher end purchaser - despite a number claims that it's most often purchased by joe the cleaner.
off you go - do your best !
yes i'll quit "whining" and purchase an MBP
when you provide one good reason i should do that
Vinea doesn't do reasons. He just has blind faith that Apple is always right in its actions. But if we've learned from anything from the Iphone, if there's enough public outcry, Apple can change its mistakes.
Pls an example of a similar unit... on anything other than FW
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MultiMix16U2
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHXENYX2442FX
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...rackUltra.html
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/...-0404-usb.html
http://store.apple.com/us/product/TQ...A&mco=MTA4NTcx
http://www.midi-store.com/Yamaha-Aud...e-p-17994.html
http://www.zzounds.com/item--MTU828MKII
http://www.newworldproaudio.com/Yama..._358-1873.html
May or may not be "pro" quality but good enough for GarageBand.
I believe the makers (if they do migrate) will only do so if they are forced.
Probably PC users asking them to do it. These all came before the MB appeared.
Remember they were free to choose USB2 at the time
and yet they chose FW - despite poor market penetration
which everyone is at pains to point out.
Can you tell me why?
inertia.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MultiMix16U2
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHXENYX2442FX
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...rackUltra.html
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/...-0404-usb.html
http://store.apple.com/us/product/TQ...A&mco=MTA4NTcx
http://www.midi-store.com/Yamaha-Aud...e-p-17994.html
http://www.zzounds.com/item--MTU828MKII
http://www.newworldproaudio.com/Yama..._358-1873.html
May or may not be "pro" quality but good enough for GarageBand.
Probably PC users asking them to do it. These all came before the MB appeared.
inertia.
homework - i like it
actually the only decent interface on the list is the MOTU 828 mkII
and honestly it surprised me to see that they have USB for it
although i suspect it could be just a ZZsounds typo
because no 828mkII photos or reviews mention USB2.
then i looked it up and saw that for the MkIII version
they've gone back to FW only...
either way, after the 828 in 2001, the 828mkII and the 828 mkIII (released 2008) all had the chance to use
what you think is equivalent tech - USB2
but they chose FW
no inertia
homework - i like it
A minute or two with Google.
actually the only decent interface on the list is the MOTU 828 mkII
Dunno...not an audio guy which is why I refrained from listing these earlier.
But yamaha and m-audio seem like respected brands. Is there something wrong with the M-Audio FastTrack Series? The FastTrack 8R is 8x8. Folks seem to recommend the FastTrack.
and honestly it surprised me to see that they have USB for it
although i suspect it could be just a ZZsounds typo
Seems that it would have been easier just to go to Motu's website.
http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828mkII/
then i looked it up and saw that for the MkIII version
they've gone back to FW only...
I'm going to bet they'll add a USB2 version for the Mk III.
"A new era in sleek, stylish mobile studio recording has arrived, and your MOTU software and hardware products are ready ? today. USB2 connectivity with the new 13-inch MacBook is just the beginning."
http://www.motu.com/newsitems/new-ma...ur-motu-studio
Yes, the MkIII is shown with FW but that's what they have out today.
Hey, to brighten your day... evidently the new MBPs use the Lucent vs Ti chipset for FW. Heh, Jobs really hates you audio folks...
A minute or two with Google.
Dunno...not an audio guy which is why I refrained from listing these earlier.
But yamaha and m-audio seem like respected brands. Is there something wrong with the M-Audio FastTrack Series? The FastTrack 8R is 8x8. Folks seem to recommend the FastTrack.
most of those ones only have stereo out.
where USB falls down is providing multi-in-multi out
(which the fastrack seems to - i'll have to look at the reviews)
even the endorsement of it on their site is kinda sarcastic
?Up until I started playing with the Fast Track Ultra I hadn't met a USB interface that I liked . . .
Seems that it would have been easier just to go to Motu's website.
http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828mkII/
yes but you'll notice that there's no USB connection on the unit
which means that you have to use a FW to USB adapter
(essentially the intelligence of the unit plays dumb and the host controls)
which you can do with a number of FW units
i was looking for reviews to see if anyone had performance data
but no one was stupid enough to try it
and if so the latency problems which are bound to occur on everything except perhaps an 8 core MP with optimised software (logic 8)
I'm going to bet they'll add a USB2 version for the Mk III.
"A new era in sleek, stylish mobile studio recording has arrived, and your MOTU software and hardware products are ready ? today. USB2 connectivity with the new 13-inch MacBook is just the beginning."
i'm sure your not
but don't go confusing their 'new era' statements by thinking they're talking about USB
they're just trying to cover apple's stuff up (and slap in the face to them)
(and not lose the hoards of people trying to find a good interface for their new MB)
by telling people that you can still go back down in tech from FW to USB2
i'm not being facitious there - i think we could both agree that FW is better for that kinda thing (multi-track audio).
sorry i have no justification for the use of the word "hoards"
http://www.motu.com/newsitems/new-ma...ur-motu-studio
Yes, the MkIII is shown with FW but that's what they have out today.
Hey, to brighten your day... evidently the new MBPs use the Lucent vs Ti chipset for FW. Heh, Jobs really hates you audio folks...
yeah i know - he's stuffing us around a bit
fortunately the mac pro still uses the TI chips
hence no good reason for me to 'update' even if i wanted to.
can you please explain how / why you want to trade graphics for connectivity?
I already have. Apple wants to segment consumer and pro markets. They did that in the past with graphics. They do that today with connectivity.
Would I want a 13" MBP with FW800 and discrete graphics for $1299? Sure. Will we get it? No.
oh and the "wane" - yes can you back that up too pls?
thanks
you mentioned 78% of cams in 2007 had FW with 88% sometime before
(i deliberately left the figures wrong so that you could disagree and correct me
I already did and you already read that link so it's already backed up. Given that the break down is not by market segment, the additional information you wish is not there.
However, given that the MB IS a consumer laptop AND the most likely place for USB to overtake FW on camcorders is in the lower end consumer space the conclusion you draw is likely.
But it also doesn't support your position that the loss of FW is terrible for the average consumer.
then to link this back to your apple "consumer market" you'd have to
justify whether the apple MB purchaser actually buys the lower end USB cams
or the upper end FW cams...
Just to try and convince someone that regardless of how many links I produce for you will ask for ever increasing detail? No thanks. The market will decide. If moving away from FW for the MB is a terrible mistake the market will punish Apple for it.
Of course, folks who claim that losing FW is a terrible mistake also claim this wont happen...mmmkay. It was so catastrophic a decision but Apple will sell more MB than ever anyway...okay, whatever.
yes i'll quit "whining" and purchase an MBP
when you provide one good reason i should do that
How about just quitting whining? As shown, there ARE USB devices for Audio. While the choices are slimmer than before until manufacturers catch up there certainly ARE consumer/prosumer (and low end pro) devices from respected brands available on USB today. likewise there are consumer/prosumer (and low end pro) camcorders from respected brands available on USB today.
yes but you'll notice that there's no USB connection on the unit which means that you have to use a FW to USB adapter (essentially the intelligence of the unit plays dumb and the host controls) which you can do with a number of FW units
"the 828mkII includes 16-channels of MIDI input and output via its hi-speed USB 2.0 connection to the computer. Simply plug in your USB cable, and both MIDI and audio are ready to go. Connect any MIDI device, such as a controller keyboard, synth module, automated control surface or drum machine. Timing is sample-accurate with supporting software."
http://www.gigasonic.com/MOTU-828mkII/image-gallery/
Hey, look...google found me a picture of the MKII with a USB port in the back. That was sure harder than making stuff up about needing an adapter...
i was looking for reviews to see if anyone had performance data but no one was stupid enough to try it
and if so the latency problems which are bound to occur on everything except perhaps an 8 core MP with optimised software (logic 8)
Yes, no one was stupid enough to try it but Motu was stupid enough to build one.
Google is your friend:
"Sorry, but again I have to disagree, when I'm getting 24/96 on my USB2.0 with multiple tracks, and my friend runs a MOTU 828MkII USB2.0 with 8 tracks at a time. No glitch, low latency."
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...5&postcount=10
"the 828mkII includes 16-channels of MIDI input and output via its hi-speed USB 2.0 connection to the computer. Simply plug in your USB cable, and both MIDI and audio are ready to go. Connect any MIDI device, such as a controller keyboard, synth module, automated control surface or drum machine. Timing is sample-accurate with supporting software."
"Sorry, but again I have to disagree, when I'm getting 24/96 on my USB2.0 with multiple tracks, and my friend runs a MOTU 828MkII USB2.0 with 8 tracks at a time. No glitch, low latency."
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...5&postcount=10
I've used this one --
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...ace?sku=245002
--at a friend's small studio (control room, fairly nice booth). Why did he go with this over other things? He "ear'd" the preamps and liked this one for some reason (and a Tascam at that, too!). Latency... not a problem at all (Mac Pro he picked up four months ago).
I've used the Motu's (both firewire and USB), and they're about the same. It used to be that only the firewire interfaces worked well (for any of the interfaces, not particularly the Motu USB). The drivers have gotten much better for USB interfaces, and the machines have gotten more powerful.
Me, I have to think they may have taken the firewire off a mite early (so many small video cameras people still own, even if they're slowly buying new ones with USB), but a choice is a choice, and I don't know if Apple's going back... but maybe. My nine-year-old's video camera is firewire, so I have to keep some computers still with it. I don't use the Macbook for anything (always Mac Pro's and MBP's), but....
http://www.rolandus.com/products/pro...x?ObjectId=860
Digital though.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M16DX/reviews/