These hard drives you mention offer multiple ports: USB, FW, and eSATA. Their are no hard drives that are FW only. Their is a growing market for hard drives that are USB only and are cheaper for the same amount of storage.
Here is one easy to read example that shows that it's either just USB or it's a combo of USB/FW/eSATA.
Well, we have a MBP at home. If I bought this (just released) drive. Which port do you think I would use? I think I'd prefer that drive over a USB only one even if it cost a bit more.
Well, we have a MBP at home. If I bought this (just released) drive. Which port do you think I would use? I think I'd prefer that drive over a USB only one even if it cost a bit more.
Here is a 1.5TB external drive for $185 with only USB2.0 and eSATA. I haven't seen that before, but I wonder if this will be a greater trend in external drives, especially when USB3.0 comes out and if eSATA gains some traction.
but then until the end of 2009 what am i going to plug my logitech mouse into ??
on a side note, on the new macbook how does anyone add a USB mouse
+ a USB drive which requires two ports for power (such as the iomegas)?
does one have to carry a usb hub permanently?
What if you have 3 or 4 or 5 USB accessories to plug in? I don't see many people using a more than 2 USB ports or using external mice on a notebook. Of course, that is anecdotal so the reality of the situation could be very different, but I figure Apple has done their homework on this to make their machine usable for their primary demographics.
As for the Omega, I have seen plenty of external 2.5" drives that have 2 USB ports and none of them have needed more than one USB plug for power on a modern Mac. Perhaps that 2nd port is for underpowered USB ports on lesser PCs or perhaps one should get an external 2.5" HDD that requires more than 500mA to run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by otwayross
good call - and they get FW !
lucky apple didn't remove the old models
....or they could have just dropped the price and not updated \
It is a good call if you want FW and a cheap 13" Mac notebook. But I think you are being sarcastic. To quote a previous post from Melgross to you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
But, by complaining about the MB, you show that you DON'T need more POWERFUL technology, you just want something newer, and cooler.
I expect the current $999 MB will remain for 2 update cycles before being retired to the refurbished section. By then I would think Apple will have refined the milling operation enough to bring back the $1099 MB. Or they could just drop it entirely. The previous generation of MBs only had 2 CPU options, but had 3 models, because one was black. I think once the newness of the MB case design wears off and it has run the gamut, they should consider iPod Nano colours. Or perhaps they could do a PRODUCT (RED) option with maxed out HDD and RAM for a higher price, but I doubt it.
What if you have 3 or 4 or 5 USB accessories to plug in? I don't see many people using a more than 2 USB ports or using external mice on a notebook. Of course, that is anecdotal so the reality of the situation could be very different, but I figure Apple has done their homework on this to make their machine usable for their primary demographics.
As for the Omega, I have seen plenty of external 2.5" drives that have 2 USB ports and none of them have needed more than one USB plug for power on a modern Mac. Perhaps that 2nd port is for underpowered USB ports on lesser PCs or perhaps one should get an external 2.5" HDD that requires more than 500mA to run.
It is a good call if you want FW and a cheap 13" Mac notebook. But I think you are being sarcastic. To quote a previous post from Melgross to you...
not at all - that was actually a question from a friend with a 17" macbook pro
who often uses all 3 ports for his external iOmega 2.5" drive plus mouse... if he didn't have the 3 ports he'd use his FW port on the drive.
anyway regarding my own needs i already responded to Mel a number of times (did you see them?) saying that i only wanted the standard MB problems fixed and due to my home MP have no need for a more powerful machine - just the same with the heat problems and flickering screen fixed (which weren't fixed in the latest plastic books). Given that I bought mine in 2006 a CPU upgrade shouldn't be hard for Apple to throw in too...
who often uses all 3 ports for his external iOmega 2.5" drive plus mouse... if he didn't have the 3 ports he'd use his FW port on the drive..
My biggest issue with the new MB design isn't the lack of FW, but the loss of the 3rd I/O port. I was using my FW400 and both USB ports, even though the FW400 was such a PITA for TM backups. I am actually considering dropping $20 on a USB squid hub, which is easy to pack, so I do understand that loss. But I am certain I am more of a power user than the average MB customer so I don't begrudge Apple.
These hard drives you mention offer multiple ports: USB, FW, and eSATA. Their are no hard drives that are FW only. Their is a growing market for hard drives that are USB only and are cheaper for the same amount of storage.
My little LaCie is FW only. Oddly it has a USB dongle thingy for power...something I never understood. I guess it's for 4 pin FW or something.
I can't even figure out how many camcorders shipped. Some things are easy to find. Others require more google-fu than I possess. I am only a nidan in google-fu.
Well, we have a MBP at home. If I bought this (just released) drive. Which port do you think I would use? I think I'd prefer that drive over a USB only one even if it cost a bit more.
"We tested the drive using FireWire 800, USB 2.0, and FireWire 400 on a MacPro. In our Copy 1GB test, the drive took 41 seconds on average with the FireWire 800 connection, 51 seconds for the FireWire 400 and 45 seconds with the USB 2.0. Compared with other drives we've tested, the times are only slightly slower than desktop drives but marginally faster than competing portable drives.
The duplicate test results were even more impressive. It only took 50 seconds to duplicate a 1GB file with the FireWire 800; 1 minute, 16 sixteen seconds with the FireWire 400; and 1 minute, 31 seconds with the USB 2.0 connection. These times, along with the low memory Photoshop test results (FireWire 800, 1 minute, 38 seconds; FireWire 400, 1 minute and 45 seconds; and USB 2.0, 1 minute, 48 seconds) are not only faster than most portable drives we've seen, but comparable to many larger desktop drives."
Give me the 70GB extra space for $10 less or double the space for $30 more. The FW400 connection is not much faster (6 sec slower on one test, 15 sec faster on the second and 3 seconds faster on the third) considering I do a lot more copies than duplicates.
Heck, even for FW800 the speed difference isn't all that. 41 seconds FW800 vs 45 seconds USB2 on a 1 GB copy?
Real world use:
"AutoGK 2.45
Here we have some real world testing. We ran AutoGK 2.45 to transcode a 2-1/2 hour DVD into an avi with 100% quality.
I was happy with the times I saw, when using the FreeAgent Go as the target drive the Asus G2S X1 was able to transcode a 2-1/2 hour movie from DVD to AVI in 1 hour, 22 minutes and 35 Seconds, this is just over 2 minutes slower than using the local drive and more than acceptable on the hardware in use."
"Virtual Machines:
To add some fun items in I ran two VMs that I commonly run off of the FreeAgent GO. One is a Vista Ultimate x86 VM and the other is a Mandriva Linux VM.
Even with these running at the same time there was no performance impact on file transfer, encryption/decryption, Transcoding, or even raw throughput, very impressive indeed.
Below are screen shots of raw through put as measured by Sandra 2009 and Everest with 2 VMs running."
2 minutes slower vs the internal drive I can live with. That the FW400 might only be 1 minute and 30 seconds slower I don't really care given I have an extra 70GBs to use.
Running VMs is the other thing I do with external drives other than backup or as a place to stick my large video files.
I can't even figure out how many camcorders shipped. Some things are easy to find. Others require more google-fu than I possess. I am only a nidan in google-fu.
And the stats for the number of PCs absolutely dwarfs Mac stats. It's a fact but I wouldn't read too much into it.
I would, because it matters greatly.
Like it or not, 95% of the people around the world do not use a Mac, and most third party equipment is therefore sold to them.
As many fewer FW ports are sold on those vast numbers, the fort is mostly held by Apple, less so by Sony, and even less so by Hp.
When they see Apple discontinue FW on their most popular model, they will wonder more than ever if it pays to continue putting them on the few of their own models that do have them. They then could save some money, which for most PC manufacturers is the main point of their existence.
As they also look around, and see that the most popular use for FW is disappearing (inexpensive camcorders), that will enhance their feeling that FW is a waste for them.
As that happens, those camcorder manufacturers will speed up what they have already been doing, which is to move off tape, and onto flash, or HDD recording, which has no need for FW.
A downward spiral. It's already happening. The trend will accelerate.
The fact that some equipment will continue to have FW in some form doesn't really matter. If this equipment is high end, as is sometimes being pointed out, it simply justifies what I, and others are saying, which is, that the MB won't need FW, but for a while, at least, the pro machines will.
While I think Apple rushed a bit, by the end of next year, FW will have little reason for existing on cheap computers, no matter who makes them.
Comments
These hard drives you mention offer multiple ports: USB, FW, and eSATA. Their are no hard drives that are FW only. Their is a growing market for hard drives that are USB only and are cheaper for the same amount of storage.
Here is one easy to read example that shows that it's either just USB or it's a combo of USB/FW/eSATA.
Well, we have a MBP at home. If I bought this (just released) drive. Which port do you think I would use? I think I'd prefer that drive over a USB only one even if it cost a bit more.
That is pretty slick looking.
Here is a 1.5TB external drive for $185 with only USB2.0 and eSATA. I haven't seen that before, but I wonder if this will be a greater trend in external drives, especially when USB3.0 comes out and if eSATA gains some traction.
The stats for the number of USB devices in use would absolutely dwarf these FW stats.
what would you do with USB stats anyway - surmise on the growth of the mouse and keyboard market?
the issue isn't the competition of FW with USB and anyone who tries to put the two in competition is clearly missing the point.
we obviously need USB2+ on our macs.... but the point is why apple removed the FW and didn't replace it with anything.
we obviously need USB2+ on our macs.... but the point is why apple removed the FW and didn't replace it with anything.
UGH!
As for college kids, this is just one of numerous articles that say the same thing.
http://www.macworld.com/article/1349.../highered.html
yes Mel, please read the comments below the article you post
and then provide some proof that students who want macs actually buy them
especially after they find out the price has increased significantly since last year...
especially after they find out the price has increased significantly since last year...
In what reality does a $1099 MB with a Combo Drive become a significant price increase when it dropped to $999 and now includes a Super Drive?
UGH!
if the UGH is for USB2 then i totally agree
but then until the end of 2009 what am i going to plug my logitech mouse into ??
on a side note, on the new macbook how does anyone add a USB mouse
+ a USB drive which requires two ports for power (such as the iomegas)?
does one have to carry a usb hub permanently?
In what reality does a $1099 MB with a Combo Drive become a significant price increase when it dropped to $999 and now includes a Super Drive?
good call - and they get FW !
lucky apple didn't remove the old models
....or they could have just dropped the price and not updated
if the UGH is for USB2 then i totally agree
but then until the end of 2009 what am i going to plug my logitech mouse into ??
on a side note, on the new macbook how does anyone add a USB mouse
+ a USB drive which requires two ports for power (such as the iomegas)?
does one have to carry a usb hub permanently?
What if you have 3 or 4 or 5 USB accessories to plug in? I don't see many people using a more than 2 USB ports or using external mice on a notebook. Of course, that is anecdotal so the reality of the situation could be very different, but I figure Apple has done their homework on this to make their machine usable for their primary demographics.
As for the Omega, I have seen plenty of external 2.5" drives that have 2 USB ports and none of them have needed more than one USB plug for power on a modern Mac. Perhaps that 2nd port is for underpowered USB ports on lesser PCs or perhaps one should get an external 2.5" HDD that requires more than 500mA to run.
good call - and they get FW !
lucky apple didn't remove the old models
....or they could have just dropped the price and not updated
It is a good call if you want FW and a cheap 13" Mac notebook. But I think you are being sarcastic. To quote a previous post from Melgross to you...
But, by complaining about the MB, you show that you DON'T need more POWERFUL technology, you just want something newer, and cooler.
I expect the current $999 MB will remain for 2 update cycles before being retired to the refurbished section. By then I would think Apple will have refined the milling operation enough to bring back the $1099 MB. Or they could just drop it entirely. The previous generation of MBs only had 2 CPU options, but had 3 models, because one was black. I think once the newness of the MB case design wears off and it has run the gamut, they should consider iPod Nano colours. Or perhaps they could do a PRODUCT (RED) option with maxed out HDD and RAM for a higher price, but I doubt it.
What if you have 3 or 4 or 5 USB accessories to plug in? I don't see many people using a more than 2 USB ports or using external mice on a notebook. Of course, that is anecdotal so the reality of the situation could be very different, but I figure Apple has done their homework on this to make their machine usable for their primary demographics.
As for the Omega, I have seen plenty of external 2.5" drives that have 2 USB ports and none of them have needed more than one USB plug for power on a modern Mac. Perhaps that 2nd port is for underpowered USB ports on lesser PCs or perhaps one should get an external 2.5" HDD that requires more than 500mA to run.
It is a good call if you want FW and a cheap 13" Mac notebook. But I think you are being sarcastic. To quote a previous post from Melgross to you...
not at all - that was actually a question from a friend with a 17" macbook pro
who often uses all 3 ports for his external iOmega 2.5" drive plus mouse... if he didn't have the 3 ports he'd use his FW port on the drive.
anyway regarding my own needs i already responded to Mel a number of times (did you see them?) saying that i only wanted the standard MB problems fixed and due to my home MP have no need for a more powerful machine - just the same with the heat problems and flickering screen fixed (which weren't fixed in the latest plastic books). Given that I bought mine in 2006 a CPU upgrade shouldn't be hard for Apple to throw in too...
who often uses all 3 ports for his external iOmega 2.5" drive plus mouse... if he didn't have the 3 ports he'd use his FW port on the drive..
My biggest issue with the new MB design isn't the lack of FW, but the loss of the 3rd I/O port. I was using my FW400 and both USB ports, even though the FW400 was such a PITA for TM backups. I am actually considering dropping $20 on a USB squid hub, which is easy to pack, so I do understand that loss. But I am certain I am more of a power user than the average MB customer so I don't begrudge Apple.
Those stats also tell me that most PCs shipped with Firewire have never had a FW device plugged into them.
Very good point:
47M computers shipped with FW but only 20M devices that use FW shipped.
Very good point:
47M computers shipped with FW but only 20M devices that use FW shipped.
Any info on how USB accessories shipped?
These hard drives you mention offer multiple ports: USB, FW, and eSATA. Their are no hard drives that are FW only. Their is a growing market for hard drives that are USB only and are cheaper for the same amount of storage.
My little LaCie is FW only. Oddly it has a USB dongle thingy for power...something I never understood. I guess it's for 4 pin FW or something.
Any info on how USB accessories shipped?
I can't even figure out how many camcorders shipped. Some things are easy to find. Others require more google-fu than I possess. I am only a nidan in google-fu.
Well, we have a MBP at home. If I bought this (just released) drive. Which port do you think I would use? I think I'd prefer that drive over a USB only one even if it cost a bit more.
PC USB version (250 GB) $109
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...648&CatId=2420
PC USB version (320 GB in red) $139
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...653&CatId=2420
PC USB version (500 GB) $179
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...654&CatId=2424
Mac FW version (250 GB) $149
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...?EdpNo=4183650
Mmmm...$40 isn't much but it IS $10 more for a smaller drive.
http://www.macworld.com/article/1357...?lsrc=rss_main
"We tested the drive using FireWire 800, USB 2.0, and FireWire 400 on a MacPro. In our Copy 1GB test, the drive took 41 seconds on average with the FireWire 800 connection, 51 seconds for the FireWire 400 and 45 seconds with the USB 2.0. Compared with other drives we've tested, the times are only slightly slower than desktop drives but marginally faster than competing portable drives.
The duplicate test results were even more impressive. It only took 50 seconds to duplicate a 1GB file with the FireWire 800; 1 minute, 16 sixteen seconds with the FireWire 400; and 1 minute, 31 seconds with the USB 2.0 connection. These times, along with the low memory Photoshop test results (FireWire 800, 1 minute, 38 seconds; FireWire 400, 1 minute and 45 seconds; and USB 2.0, 1 minute, 48 seconds) are not only faster than most portable drives we've seen, but comparable to many larger desktop drives."
Give me the 70GB extra space for $10 less or double the space for $30 more. The FW400 connection is not much faster (6 sec slower on one test, 15 sec faster on the second and 3 seconds faster on the third) considering I do a lot more copies than duplicates.
Heck, even for FW800 the speed difference isn't all that. 41 seconds FW800 vs 45 seconds USB2 on a 1 GB copy?
Real world use:
"AutoGK 2.45
Here we have some real world testing. We ran AutoGK 2.45 to transcode a 2-1/2 hour DVD into an avi with 100% quality.
I was happy with the times I saw, when using the FreeAgent Go as the target drive the Asus G2S X1 was able to transcode a 2-1/2 hour movie from DVD to AVI in 1 hour, 22 minutes and 35 Seconds, this is just over 2 minutes slower than using the local drive and more than acceptable on the hardware in use."
"Virtual Machines:
To add some fun items in I ran two VMs that I commonly run off of the FreeAgent GO. One is a Vista Ultimate x86 VM and the other is a Mandriva Linux VM.
Even with these running at the same time there was no performance impact on file transfer, encryption/decryption, Transcoding, or even raw throughput, very impressive indeed.
Below are screen shots of raw through put as measured by Sandra 2009 and Everest with 2 VMs running."
http://www.planetx64.com/index.php?o...1&limitstart=4
2 minutes slower vs the internal drive I can live with. That the FW400 might only be 1 minute and 30 seconds slower I don't really care given I have an extra 70GBs to use.
Running VMs is the other thing I do with external drives other than backup or as a place to stick my large video files.
I can't even figure out how many camcorders shipped. Some things are easy to find. Others require more google-fu than I possess. I am only a nidan in google-fu.
? Over 2B USB enabled devices shipped in 2006
? Check out the graphs under "Ubiquitous USB"
And the stats for the number of PCs absolutely dwarfs Mac stats. It's a fact but I wouldn't read too much into it.
I would, because it matters greatly.
Like it or not, 95% of the people around the world do not use a Mac, and most third party equipment is therefore sold to them.
As many fewer FW ports are sold on those vast numbers, the fort is mostly held by Apple, less so by Sony, and even less so by Hp.
When they see Apple discontinue FW on their most popular model, they will wonder more than ever if it pays to continue putting them on the few of their own models that do have them. They then could save some money, which for most PC manufacturers is the main point of their existence.
As they also look around, and see that the most popular use for FW is disappearing (inexpensive camcorders), that will enhance their feeling that FW is a waste for them.
As that happens, those camcorder manufacturers will speed up what they have already been doing, which is to move off tape, and onto flash, or HDD recording, which has no need for FW.
A downward spiral. It's already happening. The trend will accelerate.
The fact that some equipment will continue to have FW in some form doesn't really matter. If this equipment is high end, as is sometimes being pointed out, it simply justifies what I, and others are saying, which is, that the MB won't need FW, but for a while, at least, the pro machines will.
While I think Apple rushed a bit, by the end of next year, FW will have little reason for existing on cheap computers, no matter who makes them.