Interesting how the article kept it all in context. Saying that the camera manufacturers are working out the bugs. You attempt to take this out of that context and make it sound like a bigger problem.
Interesting how the article kept it all in context. Saying that the camera manufacturers are working out the bugs. You attempt to take this out of that context and make it sound like a bigger problem.
can you explain how saying "have you seen this article" takes it out of context and makes it appear like a bigger problem?
hmmmm... \
anyone seen this Pro article on the apple site - impressive
shame Ge Wang now can't use the new MB... since he was using motu FW interfaces for his macbook orchestra
oh and odd that a "professional" would use the blackbook instead of a MBP - he's obviously just an amateur
i notice that you are limiting your statements to "FW400"... wise move
Of course I'm using the term FW400, because that is what was removed from the MB and MBP. FW800 still remains on the MBP and FW800 was never on the MB. Neither the MB or MBP replaced the FW400 port with USB or FW800 or any other port. It was simply taken off. In my opinion the reasoning points to space constraints with FW400 being the weakest link of the required ports. You may think it's the most important, but you would be wrong.
PS: My hypothesis on space constraints being a likely reason for FW400 removal is feeling more correct. I noticed recently that my Sierra Wireless USB 3G adapter will no longer allow me to have my iPod USB cable plugged in at the same time. I have to use a 12" mUSB-to-fUSB cable to get both in. This wasn't an issue with my previous machine, so this means that the USB ports are closer together
Of course I'm using the term FW400, because that is what was removed from the MB and MBP. FW800 still remains on the MBP and FW800 was never on the MB. Neither the MB or MBP replaced the FW400 port with USB or FW800 or any other port. It was simply taken off. In my opinion the reasoning points to space constraints with FW400 being the weakest link of the required ports. You may think it's the most important, but you would be wrong.
PS: My hypothesis on space constraints being a likely reason for FW400 removal is feeling more correct. I noticed recently that my Sierra Wireless USB 3G adapter will no longer allow me to have my iPod USB cable plugged in at the same time. I have to use a 12" mUSB-to-fUSB cable to get both in. This wasn't an issue with my previous machine, so this means that the USB ports are closer together
again - it's firewire, not FW400 that this thread is about.
apple removed firewire from the MB - yes or no ?
apple left firewire on the MBP - yes or no ?
and regarding the space constraints on the unibody MB - sounds like apple did a great job.
no really. congrats apple. what a brilliant case design compared to the original 13" MB
not only less connectivity but less usability with the limited connectivity that remains
another reason not to buy - thanks for the heads up.
again - it's firewire, not FW400 that this thread is about.
This thread is about Jobs responding to emails about the loss of FW400 from the unibody MBs. But you are failing to see that it was the FW400 that was removed from both the MB and MB, you have completely ignored what Apple did add to the new MBs so you could focus on a loss of a port that is neither popular or common among an average consumer's peripherals.
Quote:
apple removed firewire from the MB - yes or no ?
apple left firewire on the MBP - yes or no ?
Apple removed a port from the MB & MBP - yes or no ?
Apple removed FW400 from the MB & MBP - yes or no ?
Quote:
and regarding the space constraints on the unibody MB - sounds like apple did a great job.
no really. congrats apple. what a brilliant case design compared to the original 13" MB
not only less connectivity but less usability with the limited connectivity that remains
another reason not to buy - thanks for the heads up.
Then don't buy one. A buyer should be aware of the purchase they are going to make. But if you wanted a new Mac notebook?and not just a reason to complain?their is always the MBP and a MB that not only has FW400 but comes with a reduced price tag, as well. That latter sounds like a win-win situation for anyone who primary concern isn't about impressing peers.
This thread is about Jobs responding to emails about the loss of FW400 from the unibody MBs. But you are failing to see that it was the FW400 that was removed from both the MB and MB, you have completely ignored what Apple did add to the new MBs so you could focus on a loss of a port that is neither popular or common among an average consumer's peripherals.
Apple removed a port from the MB & MBP - yes or no ?
Apple removed FW400 from the MB & MBP - yes or no ?
Then don't buy one. A buyer should be aware of the purchase they are going to make. But if you wanted a new Mac notebook—and not just a reason to complain—their is always the MBP and a MB that not only has FW400 but comes with a reduced price tag, as well. That latter sounds like a win-win situation for anyone who primary concern isn't about impressing peers.
classic, your argument now is that i only want to impress peers
that was an old and weak argument that gave us all a chuckle quite a few pages back
i rarely hang out in starbucks or any similar places with my notebook
plus i've already responded to this nonsense explaining why i personally need a new laptop
(heat issues and flickering display) neither of which are fixed if i purchase a whitebook
whatever, i don't think anyone but yourself is arguing port removal
rather connection technology removal (since FW400 and FW800+ ports are compatible)
classic, your argument now is that i only want to impress peers
Your argument is that the MB doesn't have FW and that the MBP is too costly. Yet there is a MB with FW400, and I haven't read one post by you talking about the pros of the unibody MB added components, so the only reason I can conceive for your complete lack of acknowledgement of that machine is because you don't think it's cool enough.
I spoken several times on the pluses of the new unibody MB and the shortcomings of FW for the average consumer, but you seem to still feel that Apple needs to make machines that focus solely around your needs, not their consumer base. So what else am I to think about your distaste for the new and old cases for the MB?
Your argument is that the MB doesn't have FW and that the MBP is too costly. Yet there is a MB with FW400, and I haven't read one post by you talking about the pros of the unibody MB added components, so the only reason I can conceive for your complete lack of acknowledgement of that machine is because you don't think it's cool enough.
I spoken several times on the pluses of the new unibody MB and the shortcomings of FW for the average consumer, but you seem to still feel that Apple needs to make machines that focus solely around your needs, not their consumer base. So what else am I to think about your distaste for the new and old cases for the MB?
please read my post just one up from this reply
my issues are
- poor display (flickering screen which has been to warranty twice - and still not fixed) and is clearly a design issue
- overheating, and poor heat removal, which is also clearly a design issue
as i have stated many times, i want these problems fixed before i purchase a new model
as there is no fundamental difference in design between the blackbook and the current whitebook
there is no motivation to purchase a new whitebook when i'll have the same problems.
it has nothing to do with being "cool" enough in the style sense
but a lot to do with "cool" enough in the thermal sense.
- poor display (flickering screen which has been to warranty twice - and still not fixed) and is clearly a design issue
- overheating, and poor heat removal, which is also clearly a design issue
If it's a design issue then the problem should be with all or most of poly-carb MBs, but it isn't. Sounds like you got a bad machine.
Don't think that the only issue to come from the new, thinner MB is the exclusion of FW400. Their are reports of Nvidia iGPU issues and the 'sensation' of greater heat as aluminium is a greater conductor of heat than poly-carb. It feels hotter on my lap and my hands while typing but iStat shows a temp of about 15-20° F cooler on the CPU than my previous MB. Both are the top-of-the-line MBs, by the one I compared it to was still Merom, not Penryn, as I skip a generation so the heat at the processor could have been mostly reduced by the new chip architecture, not the new casing. Also, since it's new and you've had particularly bad luck with your previous MB, why would you want to jump into a brand new, untested design... even if it came with a plethora FW ports?
If it's a design issue then the problem should be with all or most of poly-carb MBs, but it isn't. Sounds like you got a bad machine.
Don't think that the only issue to come from the new, thinner MB is the exclusion of FW400. Their are reports of Nvidia iGPU issues and the 'sensation' of greater heat as aluminium is a greater conductor of heat than poly-carb. It feels hotter on my lap and my hands while typing but iStat shows a temp of about 15-20° F cooler on the CPU than my previous MB. Both are the top-of-the-line MBs, by the one I compared it to was still Merom, not Penryn, as I skip a generation so the heat at the processor could have been mostly reduced by the new chip architecture, not the new casing. Also, since it's new and you've had particularly bad luck with your previous MB, why would you want to jump into a brand new, untested design... even if it came with a plethora FW ports?
good to know - i've been searching forums on the heat performance of the new models
for info, as a musician my biggest issue was the rapid spin-up of the fans
which created problems of audio bleed on quiet recordings
thus heat transfer by the case might actually help
(but i agree that for normal 'laptop' use it's not ideal)
good point about not jumping in on an untested model
(which is why i haven't, even if i wanted to 'upgrade' to the MBP to get the firewire connectivity)
This means that Apple is probably going to debut USB 3.0 on systems either in June (WWDC) or on the first systems out in the fall.
As I've said before, I would have been fine with Apple dropping FW400 on the MacBook if USB 3.0 was ready to usurp it. I think once the transition has taken place, first-gen Aluminum MacBooks will have limited resale values.
The exact same thing happened to the first iBooks that lacked Firewire. Funny how life works...
I think you are looking in the rear view mirror with rose colored glasses.
I remember an article I read about the iMac when it was first introduced. The author complained about the missing floppy drive, the missing legacy ports, and Apples stubbornness with AIO computers. The author declared the iMac was a perfect example of why Apple was going out of business.
I wonder what that author thinks 10 years later.
The author will think the same. The author was spot on with the evaluation. Industry sees the iMac as a great example of a technological transition. Consumers of previous Macs see it as a painful amputation of technology.
Apple was wrong not to include firewire on that mac (probably the very first nail in the coffin right then and there). I find it ironic how people point to the iMac's success and give it as an example of SJ's greatness. I see the iMac as a failure with respect to what it could have achieved: far higher sales and less pain for users.
No one can deny that the iMac marked a turning point (especially in design and marketing for that kind of product) but it could have been a whole lot more if Apple had done things slightly differently.
The author will think the same. The author was spot on with the evaluation. Industry sees the iMac as a great example of a technological transition. Consumers of previous Macs see it as a painful amputation of technology.
Apple was wrong not to include firewire on that mac (probably the very first nail in the coffin right then and there). I find it ironic how people point to the iMac's success and give it as an example of SJ's greatness. I see the iMac as a failure with respect to what it could have achieved: far higher sales and less pain for users.
No one can deny that the iMac marked a turning point (especially in design and marketing for that kind of product) but it could have been a whole lot more if Apple had done things slightly differently.
I agree and disagree. In G3 imac was very sales success, its failing was in retention. In fact, it kept getting more capable and more affordable until the G3 line was replaced with the lampshade and moved slightly up market. Apple did not understand that there were differences between the loyal Mac user and the switcher. They could not take things for granted with those users they way they could with the faithful. As a result alot of them switched back and consumer Mac sales dropped off sharply in 2001 when it was time to buy their next computer. He got arrogant, started releasing the products he wanted to buy like the afore mentioned iMac G4 and PowerMac Cube instead of listening to the consumer.
The iMac was revolutionary in that it introduced USB to replace both ADB and the serial printer ports, introduced colors other than Beige and black to the computer world, and game in at very affordable for the time $1299.
Its form factor was evolutionary though. It replaced the G3 all in one, which had replaced the PowerPC-based 5000-series PowerMacs/Performas, which replaced the 680x0 500-series LC/Performa, which in turn replaced the Mac Color Classic and so on and so forth.
There was no room on the last design which meant something had to go, which meant the obsolescing FW400 port. The MBPs still had FW800 and the MB never had FW800. They have removed the latched battery/HDD bay which means there is more side area to place ports while increasing the battery size and maintaining their aesthetics. As it’s been stated many times before, If the 17” MBP’s built-in battery was a success then the other uni-body Macs would get it and FW800 would be added.
There was no room on the last design which meant something had to go, which meant the obsolescing FW400 port. The MBPs still had FW800 and the MB never had FW800. They have removed the latched battery/HDD bay which means there is more side area to place ports while increasing the battery size and maintaining their aesthetics. As it?s been stated many times before, If the 17? MBP?s built-in battery was a success then the other uni-body Macs would get it and FW800 would be added.
the whole 'not enough space' has been debunked many times
i guess they magically created the space for an SD slot using dark matter
and never mind that this was not your argument before
(which was that FW was obsolete tech given the ubiquity of USB)
Comments
in other news, anyone seen this article about how tapeless camcorders are not a macs best friend
Interesting how the article kept it all in context. Saying that the camera manufacturers are working out the bugs. You attempt to take this out of that context and make it sound like a bigger problem.
can you explain how saying "have you seen this article" takes it out of context and makes it appear like a bigger problem?
hmmmm...
anyone seen this Pro article on the apple site - impressive
shame Ge Wang now can't use the new MB... since he was using motu FW interfaces for his macbook orchestra
oh and odd that a "professional" would use the blackbook instead of a MBP - he's obviously just an amateur
i notice that you are limiting your statements to "FW400"... wise move
Of course I'm using the term FW400, because that is what was removed from the MB and MBP. FW800 still remains on the MBP and FW800 was never on the MB. Neither the MB or MBP replaced the FW400 port with USB or FW800 or any other port. It was simply taken off. In my opinion the reasoning points to space constraints with FW400 being the weakest link of the required ports. You may think it's the most important, but you would be wrong.
PS: My hypothesis on space constraints being a likely reason for FW400 removal is feeling more correct. I noticed recently that my Sierra Wireless USB 3G adapter will no longer allow me to have my iPod USB cable plugged in at the same time. I have to use a 12" mUSB-to-fUSB cable to get both in. This wasn't an issue with my previous machine, so this means that the USB ports are closer together
Of course I'm using the term FW400, because that is what was removed from the MB and MBP. FW800 still remains on the MBP and FW800 was never on the MB. Neither the MB or MBP replaced the FW400 port with USB or FW800 or any other port. It was simply taken off. In my opinion the reasoning points to space constraints with FW400 being the weakest link of the required ports. You may think it's the most important, but you would be wrong.
PS: My hypothesis on space constraints being a likely reason for FW400 removal is feeling more correct. I noticed recently that my Sierra Wireless USB 3G adapter will no longer allow me to have my iPod USB cable plugged in at the same time. I have to use a 12" mUSB-to-fUSB cable to get both in. This wasn't an issue with my previous machine, so this means that the USB ports are closer together
again - it's firewire, not FW400 that this thread is about.
apple removed firewire from the MB - yes or no ?
apple left firewire on the MBP - yes or no ?
and regarding the space constraints on the unibody MB - sounds like apple did a great job.
no really. congrats apple. what a brilliant case design compared to the original 13" MB
not only less connectivity but less usability with the limited connectivity that remains
another reason not to buy - thanks for the heads up.
again - it's firewire, not FW400 that this thread is about.
This thread is about Jobs responding to emails about the loss of FW400 from the unibody MBs. But you are failing to see that it was the FW400 that was removed from both the MB and MB, you have completely ignored what Apple did add to the new MBs so you could focus on a loss of a port that is neither popular or common among an average consumer's peripherals.
apple removed firewire from the MB - yes or no ?
apple left firewire on the MBP - yes or no ?
Apple removed a port from the MB & MBP - yes or no ?
Apple removed FW400 from the MB & MBP - yes or no ?
and regarding the space constraints on the unibody MB - sounds like apple did a great job.
no really. congrats apple. what a brilliant case design compared to the original 13" MB
not only less connectivity but less usability with the limited connectivity that remains
another reason not to buy - thanks for the heads up.
Then don't buy one. A buyer should be aware of the purchase they are going to make. But if you wanted a new Mac notebook?and not just a reason to complain?their is always the MBP and a MB that not only has FW400 but comes with a reduced price tag, as well. That latter sounds like a win-win situation for anyone who primary concern isn't about impressing peers.
This thread is about Jobs responding to emails about the loss of FW400 from the unibody MBs. But you are failing to see that it was the FW400 that was removed from both the MB and MB, you have completely ignored what Apple did add to the new MBs so you could focus on a loss of a port that is neither popular or common among an average consumer's peripherals.
Apple removed a port from the MB & MBP - yes or no ?
Apple removed FW400 from the MB & MBP - yes or no ?
Then don't buy one. A buyer should be aware of the purchase they are going to make. But if you wanted a new Mac notebook—and not just a reason to complain—their is always the MBP and a MB that not only has FW400 but comes with a reduced price tag, as well. That latter sounds like a win-win situation for anyone who primary concern isn't about impressing peers.
classic, your argument now is that i only want to impress peers
that was an old and weak argument that gave us all a chuckle quite a few pages back
i rarely hang out in starbucks or any similar places with my notebook
plus i've already responded to this nonsense explaining why i personally need a new laptop
(heat issues and flickering display) neither of which are fixed if i purchase a whitebook
whatever, i don't think anyone but yourself is arguing port removal
rather connection technology removal (since FW400 and FW800+ ports are compatible)
classic, your argument now is that i only want to impress peers
Your argument is that the MB doesn't have FW and that the MBP is too costly. Yet there is a MB with FW400, and I haven't read one post by you talking about the pros of the unibody MB added components, so the only reason I can conceive for your complete lack of acknowledgement of that machine is because you don't think it's cool enough.
I spoken several times on the pluses of the new unibody MB and the shortcomings of FW for the average consumer, but you seem to still feel that Apple needs to make machines that focus solely around your needs, not their consumer base. So what else am I to think about your distaste for the new and old cases for the MB?
Your argument is that the MB doesn't have FW and that the MBP is too costly. Yet there is a MB with FW400, and I haven't read one post by you talking about the pros of the unibody MB added components, so the only reason I can conceive for your complete lack of acknowledgement of that machine is because you don't think it's cool enough.
I spoken several times on the pluses of the new unibody MB and the shortcomings of FW for the average consumer, but you seem to still feel that Apple needs to make machines that focus solely around your needs, not their consumer base. So what else am I to think about your distaste for the new and old cases for the MB?
please read my post just one up from this reply
my issues are
- poor display (flickering screen which has been to warranty twice - and still not fixed) and is clearly a design issue
- overheating, and poor heat removal, which is also clearly a design issue
as i have stated many times, i want these problems fixed before i purchase a new model
as there is no fundamental difference in design between the blackbook and the current whitebook
there is no motivation to purchase a new whitebook when i'll have the same problems.
it has nothing to do with being "cool" enough in the style sense
but a lot to do with "cool" enough in the thermal sense.
my issues are
- poor display (flickering screen which has been to warranty twice - and still not fixed) and is clearly a design issue
- overheating, and poor heat removal, which is also clearly a design issue
If it's a design issue then the problem should be with all or most of poly-carb MBs, but it isn't. Sounds like you got a bad machine.
Don't think that the only issue to come from the new, thinner MB is the exclusion of FW400. Their are reports of Nvidia iGPU issues and the 'sensation' of greater heat as aluminium is a greater conductor of heat than poly-carb. It feels hotter on my lap and my hands while typing but iStat shows a temp of about 15-20° F cooler on the CPU than my previous MB. Both are the top-of-the-line MBs, by the one I compared it to was still Merom, not Penryn, as I skip a generation so the heat at the processor could have been mostly reduced by the new chip architecture, not the new casing. Also, since it's new and you've had particularly bad luck with your previous MB, why would you want to jump into a brand new, untested design... even if it came with a plethora FW ports?
If it's a design issue then the problem should be with all or most of poly-carb MBs, but it isn't. Sounds like you got a bad machine.
Don't think that the only issue to come from the new, thinner MB is the exclusion of FW400. Their are reports of Nvidia iGPU issues and the 'sensation' of greater heat as aluminium is a greater conductor of heat than poly-carb. It feels hotter on my lap and my hands while typing but iStat shows a temp of about 15-20° F cooler on the CPU than my previous MB. Both are the top-of-the-line MBs, by the one I compared it to was still Merom, not Penryn, as I skip a generation so the heat at the processor could have been mostly reduced by the new chip architecture, not the new casing. Also, since it's new and you've had particularly bad luck with your previous MB, why would you want to jump into a brand new, untested design... even if it came with a plethora FW ports?
good to know - i've been searching forums on the heat performance of the new models
for info, as a musician my biggest issue was the rapid spin-up of the fans
which created problems of audio bleed on quiet recordings
thus heat transfer by the case might actually help
(but i agree that for normal 'laptop' use it's not ideal)
good point about not jumping in on an untested model
(which is why i haven't, even if i wanted to 'upgrade' to the MBP to get the firewire connectivity)
thanks again for the info
This means that Apple is probably going to debut USB 3.0 on systems either in June (WWDC) or on the first systems out in the fall.
As I've said before, I would have been fine with Apple dropping FW400 on the MacBook if USB 3.0 was ready to usurp it. I think once the transition has taken place, first-gen Aluminum MacBooks will have limited resale values.
The exact same thing happened to the first iBooks that lacked Firewire. Funny how life works...
I think you are looking in the rear view mirror with rose colored glasses.
I remember an article I read about the iMac when it was first introduced. The author complained about the missing floppy drive, the missing legacy ports, and Apples stubbornness with AIO computers. The author declared the iMac was a perfect example of why Apple was going out of business.
I wonder what that author thinks 10 years later.
The author will think the same. The author was spot on with the evaluation. Industry sees the iMac as a great example of a technological transition. Consumers of previous Macs see it as a painful amputation of technology.
Apple was wrong not to include firewire on that mac (probably the very first nail in the coffin right then and there). I find it ironic how people point to the iMac's success and give it as an example of SJ's greatness. I see the iMac as a failure with respect to what it could have achieved: far higher sales and less pain for users.
No one can deny that the iMac marked a turning point (especially in design and marketing for that kind of product) but it could have been a whole lot more if Apple had done things slightly differently.
The author will think the same. The author was spot on with the evaluation. Industry sees the iMac as a great example of a technological transition. Consumers of previous Macs see it as a painful amputation of technology.
Apple was wrong not to include firewire on that mac (probably the very first nail in the coffin right then and there). I find it ironic how people point to the iMac's success and give it as an example of SJ's greatness. I see the iMac as a failure with respect to what it could have achieved: far higher sales and less pain for users.
No one can deny that the iMac marked a turning point (especially in design and marketing for that kind of product) but it could have been a whole lot more if Apple had done things slightly differently.
I agree and disagree. In G3 imac was very sales success, its failing was in retention. In fact, it kept getting more capable and more affordable until the G3 line was replaced with the lampshade and moved slightly up market. Apple did not understand that there were differences between the loyal Mac user and the switcher. They could not take things for granted with those users they way they could with the faithful. As a result alot of them switched back and consumer Mac sales dropped off sharply in 2001 when it was time to buy their next computer. He got arrogant, started releasing the products he wanted to buy like the afore mentioned iMac G4 and PowerMac Cube instead of listening to the consumer.
The iMac was revolutionary in that it introduced USB to replace both ADB and the serial printer ports, introduced colors other than Beige and black to the computer world, and game in at very affordable for the time $1299.
Its form factor was evolutionary though. It replaced the G3 all in one, which had replaced the PowerPC-based 5000-series PowerMacs/Performas, which replaced the 680x0 500-series LC/Performa, which in turn replaced the Mac Color Classic and so on and so forth.
Does anyone know what FW 3200's expected real world figure is supposed to be?
please !!!???
just to close it quickly again now that
APPLE HAS DONE A BACK TRACK ON FIREWIRE
brilliant !!
PS now how much is an alu 13" macbook without firewire worth
APPLE HAS DONE A BACK TRACK ON FIREWIRE
There was no room on the last design which meant something had to go, which meant the obsolescing FW400 port. The MBPs still had FW800 and the MB never had FW800. They have removed the latched battery/HDD bay which means there is more side area to place ports while increasing the battery size and maintaining their aesthetics. As it’s been stated many times before, If the 17” MBP’s built-in battery was a success then the other uni-body Macs would get it and FW800 would be added.
There was no room on the last design which meant something had to go, which meant the obsolescing FW400 port. The MBPs still had FW800 and the MB never had FW800. They have removed the latched battery/HDD bay which means there is more side area to place ports while increasing the battery size and maintaining their aesthetics. As it?s been stated many times before, If the 17? MBP?s built-in battery was a success then the other uni-body Macs would get it and FW800 would be added.
the whole 'not enough space' has been debunked many times
i guess they magically created the space for an SD slot using dark matter
and never mind that this was not your argument before
(which was that FW was obsolete tech given the ubiquity of USB)
oh well I guess everyone's happy now
can we pleeeeeeeeeease re-start this thread ???
please !!!???
just to close it quickly again now that
APPLE HAS DONE A BACK TRACK ON FIREWIRE
brilliant !!
PS now how much is an alu 13" macbook without firewire worth
We totally called it. Don't get me started on the 15" not having an expresscard slot though.
There was no room on the last design which meant something had to go, which meant the obsolescing FW400 port.
Please, he said that there was no need for it and half the zealots in this thread agreed. Apple is clearly changing their tune on that now.