ALL OF THEM, since apparently selling a copy of a piece of software that you purchased is illegal in your retarded reality.
From what I can see, those copies were all made by Apple or in accordance with a license from Apple.
Quote:
No, but seriously, Psystar isn't infringing on copyright as much as any of those ebay sellers. So nice try again, but you're still wrong.
My reality is only retarded because it's governed by laws. If you push your luck in the world too far, like Psystar has, you'll realize just how retarded you are, too.
This is tedious for me and I'm sure for everyone else, so I'm logging out now.
From what I can see, those copies were all made by Apple.
My reality is only retarded because it's governed by laws. If you push your luck in the world too far, like Psystar has, you'll realize just how retarded you are, too.
And the OS X that Psystar installs (which it purchases from Apple) on your computer is not by Apple? What the hell are you talking about? Of course it is by Apple, SINCE APPLE MADE OS X.
It is legal if Apple (the owner of the copyright to Mac OS X) has given you permission to install the software on your own computer. Chances are, Apple hasn't given this to you. The EULA (end user license agreement) bundled with retail copies of Mac OS X does not provide such permission either. If you've not received permission from Apple through other means, then you don't have permission.
Standard disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.
I didn't know this. Though if only Apple computer weren't so expensive, but I must say, no computer have I seen matches how they look. I love the simple gray styles, but yet it looks great.
If I buy the book for $19.99, I am allowed tear the book page by page and scan it in and read it on my computer. I am allowed to dictate the book to myself so I can listen to it later. I am allowed to copy the book so I can read it in plain text on my computer.
As far as myself and my publishers are concerned we don't care whether you burn the book or wipe your ass with it!
The day that you decide to start a volume business based on my copyrighted work then my lawyers will descend on you and demonstrate some novel ways to combine MY book and YOUR ass.
As far as myself and my publishers are concerned we don't care whether you burn the book or wipe your ass with it!
The day that you decide to start a volume business based on my copyrighted work then my lawyers will descend on you and demonstrate some novel ways to combine MY book and YOUR ass.
Except that Psystar is not illegally copying Mac OS X onto the computers. It is installing legal copies that it purchased from Apple.
Well, you bought that MacPro for .... how much? $2000+?
I'd understand your point if the price were the same.
Looking at your original post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro
Yeah I thought it was funny too. I guess it's hard to put a price on having a silver plastic Apple on a computer case.
You are implying that the only difference between the Psystar box and a MacPro is the logo, when in fact the additional money I paid for the Apple branded machine was for the better support, performance, and design.
And the OS X that Psystar installs (which it purchases from Apple) on your computer is not by Apple? What the hell are you talking about? Of course it is by Apple, SINCE APPLE MADE OS X.
Are you smoking crack?
Well, now that I understand a bit, think of it this way.
Say you buy Windows Vista UPGRADE, and do the hack that allows you to install a retail version of Vista from said DVD, then you are stealing. Correct? From what I gather, Mac OS X Leopard is basically an UPGRADE DVD for Macs, since they all come pre-installed with a Mac OS. Am I assuming incorrectly?
The Apple Store sells and ships products to end user customers only. You may not purchase for resale. Apple reserves the right to refuse or cancel your order if Apple suspects you are purchasing for resale."
Well, now that I understand a bit, think of it this way.
Say you buy Windows Vista UPGRADE, and do the hack that allows you to install a retail version of Vista from said DVD, then you are stealing. Correct? From what I gather, Mac OS X Leopard is basically an UPGRADE DVD for Macs, since they all come pre-installed with a Mac OS. Am I assuming incorrectly?
Yes you are correct, that is the biggest downfall with Psystar is the fact they are using an 'upgrade disc' and are not upgrading anything. But they could still win on the fact that Apple has a quasi monopoly (You are stuck buying Apple hardware if you want OS X, but you can buy any hardware including Apple to run Windows or Linux)
Which is why I always point out that Vista is not really more expensive than OS X when you count that most copies sold are OEM. Only retail if you built your own computer is expensive. I wonder if Psystar's computers would be so profitable if the retail version of OS X was $400? That would probably shut them up as the price difference between their computers and Macs would be less worth getting a Psystar but would still allow the hackintosh community to be legal and not worry about updates as much (though that is changing).
And even if Apple made a retail version, they don't have to worry about supporting other hardware (Just make a disclaimer, allow a return in 15 days). I think alot of hardware makers would make drivers themselves (as that is honestly who Microsoft got most of the drivers for its OS). And then make the retail version require a key, but not the Apple version which check to make sure you have an Apple computer.
I will say Hackintosh let me decide it wasn't a bad idea to buy a Macbook... so I think its a good think in the end for Apple.
The case is a slam dunk, Psystar's argument is no doubt an interesting exercise for their lawyer, but the odd's of them winning it are many thousands to one (at best) and everyone knows it.
I hope you're right but I think you're being presumptuous. I believe AAPL has really bungled this case by entering into arbitration. I read it as a legal ploy to exhaust Psystar's legal options but it has backfired on AAPL. Psystar is now rubbing the mediation process in AAPL's face. The tail is wagging the dog! Dig?
The Apple Store sells and ships products to end user customers only. You may not purchase for resale. Apple reserves the right to refuse or cancel your order if Apple suspects you are purchasing for resale."
What if they bought the OS X discs from Amazon, Best Buy or other store?
Yes you are correct, that is the biggest downfall with Psystar is the fact they are using an 'upgrade disc' and are not upgrading anything. But they could still win on the fact that Apple has a quasi monopoly (You are stuck buying Apple hardware if you want OS X, but you can buy any hardware including Apple to run Windows or Linux)
Which is why I always point out that Vista is not really more expensive than OS X when you count that most copies sold are OEM. Only retail if you built your own computer is expensive. I wonder if Psystar's computers would be so profitable if the retail version of OS X was $400? That would probably shut them up as the price difference between their computers and Macs would be less worth getting a Psystar but would still allow the hackintosh community to be legal and not worry about updates as much (though that is changing).
And even if Apple made a retail version, they don't have to worry about supporting other hardware (Just make a disclaimer, allow a return in 15 days). I think alot of hardware makers would make drivers themselves (as that is honestly who Microsoft got most of the drivers for its OS). And then make the retail version require a key, but not the Apple version which check to make sure you have an Apple computer.
I will say Hackintosh let me decide it wasn't a bad idea to buy a Macbook... so I think its a good think in the end for Apple.
Honesty, to me, I really do not mind being locked into Apple, as long as these conditions are met.
Allow me to install additional RAM.
Allow me to replace the Hard Drive.
Allow me to replace the CPU.
Allow me to replace the GPU.
Allow me to make any internal cooling modifications. (ie Adding water cooling, VGA cooler, etc.)
Maybe replacing the motherboard when new CPUs come out? (A major stretch and not needed that much.)
What if they bought the OS X discs from Amazon, Best Buy or other store?
That's a good question. I guess I don't know for sure, but since Amazon, and the like, are Authorized Resellers, then I would imagine you couldn't buy from them with the intent to resell either. But maybe that's not the case?
Here's a better example...
If you look at the "Mac OS X Software License Agreement" you find this:
2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
A. Single Use. This License allows you to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. You agree not to install, use
or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-labeled computer, or to enable others to do so. This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one
computer at a time, and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time.
3. Transfer. You may not rent, lease, lend, redistribute or sublicense the Apple Software. Subject to the restrictions set forth below, you may, however, make a one-time
permanent transfer of all of your license rights to the Apple Software (in its original form as provided by Apple) to another party, provided that: (a) the transfer must
include all of the Apple Software, including all its component parts (excluding Apple Boot ROM code and firmware), original media, printed materials and this License; (b)
you do not retain any copies of the Apple Software, full or partial, including copies stored on a computer or other storage device; and (c) the party receiving the Apple
Software reads and agrees to accept the terms and conditions of this License. You may not rent, lease, lend, redistribute, sublicense or transfer any Apple Software that
has been modified or replaced under Section 2D above. All components of the Apple Software are provided as part of a bundle and may not be separated from the bundle
and distributed as standalone applications. Apple Software provided with a particular Apple-labeled hardware product may not run on other models of Apple-labeled
hardware.
That's pretty clear to me. Pystar is guilty on all accounts.
They are installing Apple software on non-Apple-labeled computers for sure. And, they are redistributing Apple software.
I don't think it's possible for them to talk their way out of that.
Yes you are correct, that is the biggest downfall with Psystar is the fact they are using an 'upgrade disc' and are not upgrading anything.
<sigh> I'm back for more fun and flagellation.
No, the retail boxes of Mac OS X don't say anything about the software being an upgrade version. I understand your point, but that doesn't particularly matter. The crux of the situation is that Apple hasn't given anyone--let alone Psystar--a license to install Mac OS X (of which the copyright is owned by Apple) on any computer other than an Apple-branded computer. Your point of upgrade versus new install would matter if Apple had other licensing schemes in mind. Yes, if Apple would allow Mac OS X on non-Apple computers, they very well would charge more for it, but the fact is Apple doesn't allow this.
Quote:
But they could still win on the fact that Apple has a quasi monopoly (You are stuck buying Apple hardware if you want OS X, but you can buy any hardware including Apple to run Windows or Linux)
I have no idea what a quasi-monopoly is, but Apple doesn't have a monopoly any more than I have a monopoly on my house. Just as Fujitsu and Amdahl did to IBM in the 1960s and maybe 1970s, if you can't join 'em, beat 'em: Amdahl manufactured IBM-compatible mainframe hardware and sold it with a clone of the IBM OS, which allowed software developed for IBM mainframes to run on the Amdahl hardware. Psystar is free to do the same: build Apple-compatible PCs and install their own Mac OS X clone.
Just because Microsoft has a monopoly on PC operating system sales doesn't mean they have to allow others to copy Windows without a license.
i really dont like Apple(the hardware Co.). but mac OS X is decent, and i would really like to use it more. I only really want to install it because i have to support macs at work. So more power to psystar. Because i might be using mac OS X soon, but i will never pay for Apple hardware(at least at retail prices)
I hope you're right but I think you're being presumptuous. I believe AAPL has really bungled this case by entering into arbitration. I read it as a legal ploy to exhaust Psystar's legal options but it has backfired on AAPL. Psystar is now rubbing the mediation process in AAPL's face. The tail is wagging the dog! Dig?
Dude it is a requirement of American law that they go into arbitratiion.
i really dont like Apple(the hardware Co.). but mac OS X is decent, and i would really like to use it more. I only really want to install it because i have to support macs at work. So more power to psystar. Because i might be using mac OS X soon, but i will never pay for Apple hardware(at least at retail prices)
So then don't buy it or go the hackintosh route, no one is forcing you to buy anything, some of you think you should be entitled to everything, if you can't afford to buy something, you save up and go and buy it, which is what I did. If I want a Benz and I can't afford it, I either find another cheaper car or I save up but no Mercedes is evil because their cars are expensive and I can't afford it.
My 2 cents for Apple not opening up their OS to other manufacturers is hardware support. Imagine if you had to support every imaginable hardware and its associated configuration out there. OS X would get bloated and become the next Windows.
Comments
You can't trademark a photo of a box. Otherwise, you can guess what would happen to ALLLLLLLLLLLL these people.
Tell me, are ANYYYY of those people offering to infringe on Apple's copyright?
Tell me, are ANYYYY of those people offering to infringe on Apple's copyright?
ALL OF THEM, since apparently selling a copy of a piece of software that you purchased is illegal in your retarded reality.
No, but seriously, Psystar isn't infringing on copyright as much as any of those ebay sellers. So nice try again, but you're still wrong.
ALL OF THEM, since apparently selling a copy of a piece of software that you purchased is illegal in your retarded reality.
From what I can see, those copies were all made by Apple or in accordance with a license from Apple.
No, but seriously, Psystar isn't infringing on copyright as much as any of those ebay sellers. So nice try again, but you're still wrong.
My reality is only retarded because it's governed by laws. If you push your luck in the world too far, like Psystar has, you'll realize just how retarded you are, too.
This is tedious for me and I'm sure for everyone else, so I'm logging out now.
From what I can see, those copies were all made by Apple.
My reality is only retarded because it's governed by laws. If you push your luck in the world too far, like Psystar has, you'll realize just how retarded you are, too.
And the OS X that Psystar installs (which it purchases from Apple) on your computer is not by Apple? What the hell are you talking about? Of course it is by Apple, SINCE APPLE MADE OS X.
Are you smoking crack?
It is legal if Apple (the owner of the copyright to Mac OS X) has given you permission to install the software on your own computer. Chances are, Apple hasn't given this to you. The EULA (end user license agreement) bundled with retail copies of Mac OS X does not provide such permission either. If you've not received permission from Apple through other means, then you don't have permission.
Standard disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.
I didn't know this. Though if only Apple computer weren't so expensive, but I must say, no computer have I seen matches how they look. I love the simple gray styles, but yet it looks great.
If I buy the book for $19.99, I am allowed tear the book page by page and scan it in and read it on my computer. I am allowed to dictate the book to myself so I can listen to it later. I am allowed to copy the book so I can read it in plain text on my computer.
As far as myself and my publishers are concerned we don't care whether you burn the book or wipe your ass with it!
The day that you decide to start a volume business based on my copyrighted work then my lawyers will descend on you and demonstrate some novel ways to combine MY book and YOUR ass.
As far as myself and my publishers are concerned we don't care whether you burn the book or wipe your ass with it!
The day that you decide to start a volume business based on my copyrighted work then my lawyers will descend on you and demonstrate some novel ways to combine MY book and YOUR ass.
Except that Psystar is not illegally copying Mac OS X onto the computers. It is installing legal copies that it purchased from Apple.
Well, you bought that MacPro for .... how much? $2000+?
I'd understand your point if the price were the same.
Looking at your original post:
Yeah I thought it was funny too. I guess it's hard to put a price on having a silver plastic Apple on a computer case.
You are implying that the only difference between the Psystar box and a MacPro is the logo, when in fact the additional money I paid for the Apple branded machine was for the better support, performance, and design.
And the OS X that Psystar installs (which it purchases from Apple) on your computer is not by Apple? What the hell are you talking about? Of course it is by Apple, SINCE APPLE MADE OS X.
Are you smoking crack?
Well, now that I understand a bit, think of it this way.
Say you buy Windows Vista UPGRADE, and do the hack that allows you to install a retail version of Vista from said DVD, then you are stealing. Correct? From what I gather, Mac OS X Leopard is basically an UPGRADE DVD for Macs, since they all come pre-installed with a Mac OS. Am I assuming incorrectly?
Sooooo... if Psystar legally purchases Mac OS X from Apple and installs it on an individual computer, you still think that's stealing? Wow.
Correct. Apple has not given permission to Pystar to install and/or sell their operating system to people for profit.
People that legally do this are called "Authorized resellers".
Check it out: Apple Store Sales and Refund Policy
"Sales to End Users Only
The Apple Store sells and ships products to end user customers only. You may not purchase for resale. Apple reserves the right to refuse or cancel your order if Apple suspects you are purchasing for resale."
Well, now that I understand a bit, think of it this way.
Say you buy Windows Vista UPGRADE, and do the hack that allows you to install a retail version of Vista from said DVD, then you are stealing. Correct? From what I gather, Mac OS X Leopard is basically an UPGRADE DVD for Macs, since they all come pre-installed with a Mac OS. Am I assuming incorrectly?
Yes you are correct, that is the biggest downfall with Psystar is the fact they are using an 'upgrade disc' and are not upgrading anything. But they could still win on the fact that Apple has a quasi monopoly (You are stuck buying Apple hardware if you want OS X, but you can buy any hardware including Apple to run Windows or Linux)
Which is why I always point out that Vista is not really more expensive than OS X when you count that most copies sold are OEM. Only retail if you built your own computer is expensive. I wonder if Psystar's computers would be so profitable if the retail version of OS X was $400? That would probably shut them up as the price difference between their computers and Macs would be less worth getting a Psystar but would still allow the hackintosh community to be legal and not worry about updates as much (though that is changing).
And even if Apple made a retail version, they don't have to worry about supporting other hardware (Just make a disclaimer, allow a return in 15 days). I think alot of hardware makers would make drivers themselves (as that is honestly who Microsoft got most of the drivers for its OS). And then make the retail version require a key, but not the Apple version which check to make sure you have an Apple computer.
I will say Hackintosh let me decide it wasn't a bad idea to buy a Macbook... so I think its a good think in the end for Apple.
The case is a slam dunk, Psystar's argument is no doubt an interesting exercise for their lawyer, but the odd's of them winning it are many thousands to one (at best) and everyone knows it.
I hope you're right but I think you're being presumptuous. I believe AAPL has really bungled this case by entering into arbitration. I read it as a legal ploy to exhaust Psystar's legal options but it has backfired on AAPL. Psystar is now rubbing the mediation process in AAPL's face. The tail is wagging the dog! Dig?
Correct. Apple has not given permission to Pystar to install and/or sell their operating system to people for profit.
People that legally do this are called "Authorized resellers".
Check it out: Apple Store Sales and Refund Policy
"Sales to End Users Only
The Apple Store sells and ships products to end user customers only. You may not purchase for resale. Apple reserves the right to refuse or cancel your order if Apple suspects you are purchasing for resale."
What if they bought the OS X discs from Amazon, Best Buy or other store?
Yes you are correct, that is the biggest downfall with Psystar is the fact they are using an 'upgrade disc' and are not upgrading anything. But they could still win on the fact that Apple has a quasi monopoly (You are stuck buying Apple hardware if you want OS X, but you can buy any hardware including Apple to run Windows or Linux)
Which is why I always point out that Vista is not really more expensive than OS X when you count that most copies sold are OEM. Only retail if you built your own computer is expensive. I wonder if Psystar's computers would be so profitable if the retail version of OS X was $400? That would probably shut them up as the price difference between their computers and Macs would be less worth getting a Psystar but would still allow the hackintosh community to be legal and not worry about updates as much (though that is changing).
And even if Apple made a retail version, they don't have to worry about supporting other hardware (Just make a disclaimer, allow a return in 15 days). I think alot of hardware makers would make drivers themselves (as that is honestly who Microsoft got most of the drivers for its OS). And then make the retail version require a key, but not the Apple version which check to make sure you have an Apple computer.
I will say Hackintosh let me decide it wasn't a bad idea to buy a Macbook... so I think its a good think in the end for Apple.
Honesty, to me, I really do not mind being locked into Apple, as long as these conditions are met.
What if they bought the OS X discs from Amazon, Best Buy or other store?
That's a good question. I guess I don't know for sure, but since Amazon, and the like, are Authorized Resellers, then I would imagine you couldn't buy from them with the intent to resell either. But maybe that's not the case?
Here's a better example...
If you look at the "Mac OS X Software License Agreement" you find this:
2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.
A. Single Use. This License allows you to install, use and run one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. You agree not to install, use
or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-labeled computer, or to enable others to do so. This License does not allow the Apple Software to exist on more than one
computer at a time, and you may not make the Apple Software available over a network where it could be used by multiple computers at the same time.
3. Transfer. You may not rent, lease, lend, redistribute or sublicense the Apple Software. Subject to the restrictions set forth below, you may, however, make a one-time
permanent transfer of all of your license rights to the Apple Software (in its original form as provided by Apple) to another party, provided that: (a) the transfer must
include all of the Apple Software, including all its component parts (excluding Apple Boot ROM code and firmware), original media, printed materials and this License; (b)
you do not retain any copies of the Apple Software, full or partial, including copies stored on a computer or other storage device; and (c) the party receiving the Apple
Software reads and agrees to accept the terms and conditions of this License. You may not rent, lease, lend, redistribute, sublicense or transfer any Apple Software that
has been modified or replaced under Section 2D above. All components of the Apple Software are provided as part of a bundle and may not be separated from the bundle
and distributed as standalone applications. Apple Software provided with a particular Apple-labeled hardware product may not run on other models of Apple-labeled
hardware.
That's pretty clear to me. Pystar is guilty on all accounts.
They are installing Apple software on non-Apple-labeled computers for sure. And, they are redistributing Apple software.
I don't think it's possible for them to talk their way out of that.
Yes you are correct, that is the biggest downfall with Psystar is the fact they are using an 'upgrade disc' and are not upgrading anything.
<sigh> I'm back for more fun and flagellation.
No, the retail boxes of Mac OS X don't say anything about the software being an upgrade version. I understand your point, but that doesn't particularly matter. The crux of the situation is that Apple hasn't given anyone--let alone Psystar--a license to install Mac OS X (of which the copyright is owned by Apple) on any computer other than an Apple-branded computer. Your point of upgrade versus new install would matter if Apple had other licensing schemes in mind. Yes, if Apple would allow Mac OS X on non-Apple computers, they very well would charge more for it, but the fact is Apple doesn't allow this.
But they could still win on the fact that Apple has a quasi monopoly (You are stuck buying Apple hardware if you want OS X, but you can buy any hardware including Apple to run Windows or Linux)
I have no idea what a quasi-monopoly is, but Apple doesn't have a monopoly any more than I have a monopoly on my house. Just as Fujitsu and Amdahl did to IBM in the 1960s and maybe 1970s, if you can't join 'em, beat 'em: Amdahl manufactured IBM-compatible mainframe hardware and sold it with a clone of the IBM OS, which allowed software developed for IBM mainframes to run on the Amdahl hardware. Psystar is free to do the same: build Apple-compatible PCs and install their own Mac OS X clone.
Just because Microsoft has a monopoly on PC operating system sales doesn't mean they have to allow others to copy Windows without a license.
I hope you're right but I think you're being presumptuous. I believe AAPL has really bungled this case by entering into arbitration. I read it as a legal ploy to exhaust Psystar's legal options but it has backfired on AAPL. Psystar is now rubbing the mediation process in AAPL's face. The tail is wagging the dog! Dig?
Dude it is a requirement of American law that they go into arbitratiion.
i really dont like Apple(the hardware Co.). but mac OS X is decent, and i would really like to use it more. I only really want to install it because i have to support macs at work. So more power to psystar. Because i might be using mac OS X soon, but i will never pay for Apple hardware(at least at retail prices)
So then don't buy it or go the hackintosh route, no one is forcing you to buy anything, some of you think you should be entitled to everything, if you can't afford to buy something, you save up and go and buy it, which is what I did. If I want a Benz and I can't afford it, I either find another cheaper car or I save up but no Mercedes is evil because their cars are expensive and I can't afford it.