Plenty of GLBT people work at Microsoft and hack on Linux, so I guess GoldenLight will just have to never use a computer again or be an obvious hypocrite?
we do have moral responsibility. But i don't think anyone ever taught you what morality is.
Morality is not a code, written in a book filled with contradictory and outdated myths.
A moral action is one where the actor has considered the benefits and dis-benefits of his actions. He has carefully weighed-up the harm versus the good. Not just to himself but to the wider community.
To do so is not easy. It requires knowledge, compassion, imagination and an open mind. At the heart of a moral man is doubt. Doubt is good because it limits the harm he can do.
Your style of "morality" is not about thinking or compassion but relies on dogma. The upside for you is that the doubt is gone and you get "certainty" in its stead. And it is certainty that is the problem here. People who are certain are always dangerous. They can act without hesitation, they act before evaluating the harm.
In the past we have seen the certain slaughter women, wipe out infidels. Steal continents from un-believers. They have taken slaves. They have denied rights to people based on gender or skin-color. Genocide is not committed by the doubtful.
So please go away. I am sure you would feel at home amongst the taliban, but here, the world is getting better as we grow-up as a species. Nowadays, we don't take slaves. We don't burn witches. We don't send black people to the back of the bus. We have stopped gassing jews. One day we might even stop waging wars based on who has the better prophets.
I have been a supporter of apple for about 3 or 4 years now, like the operating system, the product design and it's innovative improvements to both aspects of it's output. I've recently spent the most I ever have on computer hardware after a successful period, purchasing a 30 inch display for the MBP I use, a macbook air and an iphone. I had become almost intoxicated with the company, and was not disappointed with the new products.
However, what I was disheartened and disappointed at one morning was one of the news feeds delivered to my inbox. Apparently Apple are now actively supporting homosexual "marriage" and are using funds they have made to advance this cause. I believe that marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman, for the purpose of bringing children, naturally into the world. It is a Holy covenant ordained by God and affirmed biologically for this purpose. Those who engage in same sex relationships are violating our natural and sacred design, which is clearly the union of male and female organs in a sexual nature. Anything outside of that is sodomy, which is essentially a violation of another body, regardless of their willing submission, for ones own pleasure and abuse.
The fact that you Mr Jobs and Apple, are now towing the line of this popular morally blind crusade of deceitful "equality" seeking, should I suppose, be of no real surprise. It seems the value of respect, decency and sex has been reduced and almost erased from western culture. I have no problem with people who label themselves gay, but if they practice what their lust entails, then they are violating natural and sacred laws and orders. To do this willfully, without any regret or conscience, actually in pride, brings great social and spiritual degeneration. The fact that you seem so blind to this amazes me.
I object to any funds from products I purchase going towards a cause I disagree with and think is morally corrupt and perverted. The promotion of illicit sodomy relationships as decent and right under the banner of marriage, is really appalling in my view. It is essentially thumbing your nose at the great system programmer of this universe, and saying "we know you created an awesome system of architecture here, but we think this virus should have equal status and merit"
Yes I would compare God to the Master programmer of these myriad genetic and bio-mechanical systems we have and are, the originator of that intangible and unknown consciousness/spirit within. And I would compare degenerate practices to a virus upon our society. We do not heal a virus by funding and encouraging it, we have to recognize the correct way the system should function and rewrite the code.
Which analogously would be repentance of abusive lusts and violence, and a return in humility to holiness, purity, and goodness.
What should two same sex who are consenting do if they desire each other?
They should recognize that not every desire or thought we have merits or justifies expression. Many thoughts that come can be depraved and violent, it is our choice whether to act upon them, perpetuate them, or reject them as not right and harmful.
We were not designed by God or nature to conduct ourselves sexually with the same gender. The acts which ensue from such desires are counter to what is natural, holy, and respectful in our own better judgment and conscience.
The argument is usually put forth, if you are not harming anyone its OK, but the reality is a great deal of harm is occurring under the surface and is not recognized.
Not only on a Spiritual level for those who believe, but also on a social cultural level. Family breakdown, promiscuity, thoughts, lifestyles spread throughout society like wildfire, and in a liberal society that loses all sense of balance and proportion, an "anything goes alternative lifestyle" becomes normal.
As soon as you devalue sex and marriage, remove God from the equation, then anything goes, and the "alternative community" is at the forefront of this social motion, it has intertwined with heterosexuals also and now the programming system of order "marriage" has been essentially broken as all respect has gone.
The purpose of marriage is the covenant commitment and bond between the male and the female to further life, creation and human beings. We are designed biologically for that function and it is essential that we respect our design. Respect is a central part of love, if we do not respect our design, and seek to violate it, in order to fulfill base lusts then it is not love. We are to love our fellow man, and woman are to love their fellow sisters, but as soon as lust arises in these cases, all respect and love is gone. It becomes purely a love for the flesh and not a love for the soul, personality and being. Why? Because if there was LOVE between the same sex, they would respect each-others natural design and order and not want to violate and sodomize each-other, regardless of the willingness of the person.
Trying to dress up sodomy relationships as legitimate and right by honoring them with the term "marriage" is very misguided and shameful.
I might have know that the bitten apple logo was an atheistic reference to the tree of knowledge and satan.
I won't be buying another apple product again. I wish that you wake up to holiness and Spirituality and what is right and true. The earthly physical life is but a blip, what matters is the destiny of our eternal Soul and Spirit, and that choice is in our own hands. We need to repent, humble ourselves, turn from our degenerate ways and sincerely walk in a new light of goodness, holiness and love.
I no longer am happy to be associated with Apple and I would encourage anyone else with decency to take a stand against Apples active support of "gay marriage" and boycott any further product purchases.
And the award for largest paragraph goes too...
My take on this rant?
It is hatred being preached as non-confrontationally as possible, but hate all the same.
Just saw a banner pop up from Google for Yes on Prop 8...
For the thread starter, just remember that other conservatives like Rush Limbaugh (at least was at one time) use Macs. Heck, I still float the idea in my head of forming R.U.M. (Republican Users of Macintoshes)... Once you give a company money for a product, they are free to use it as they like, although a lot of outside folks try influencing their decisions.
On the other hand, organizations who represent you spending money in a manner that you don't like *is* objectionable. If the Baathist party in Iraq was called a "union", you know American Union Bosses would be down with their requiring people to be members for jobs...
I think GoldenLight is missing the point of what marriage is.
It's not something that you do to bring children into the world. You could just shack up with your girlfriend and have sex for that. I'm sure GoldenLight is not advocating a ban on marriage for people with reproductive deficiencies either, although they're not going to have children either.
To some extent, marriage is about creating families. Creating a permanent relationship where one did not exist before, but that could also be accomplished by private "commitment ceremonies", so that's not really it either.
Marriage is there to give the participants a special legal status. That makes one partner able to sign consent forms for emergency surgery, allows an easy path to committing someone to a mental institution if the need arises; it allows children to have more than one parent by default; it allows the formation of a single economic entity with shared resources. This serves both the interests of the parties and the interests of society at large. It's a way for one partner to five up some earning ability to take care of common children, and to get health benefits from the spouse's workplace. In the past, marriages were performed exclusively by the clergy, and that is why people attach a religious and moral significance to a mostly economic union.
Regardless of whether you think homosexual relationships are moral or immoral, just as you surely don't plan on denying homosexuals the vote or the right to invest in government bonds, you should not deny them the right to enter into this special contract called marriage.
Straight marriages and straight promiscuity are NOT caused by homosexuals marrying or having relationships. We manage to ruin are marriages just fine all by ourselves.
I think GoldenLight is missing the point of what marriage is.
I also argued this point, but he chose to avoid it. Marriage has different meanings to the state and church. This is a state law, and it applies to the state's understanding of the term.
Might I also add that there is no shortage of gay-friendly churches, some of which condone gay marriage. As a christian, this irks me greatly, and I don't support these churches. There is plenty to fight about within the church itself before worrying about the matters of states. States come and go.
Sadly acts of evil are often those inflicted by those seeking truth but who don't have the knowledge to understand what they are so intent on discovering. In the process of trying to discover that truth they use condemnation of others as their release for the anger they feel about still being left in the dark, which is, despite your rhetoric, where you are firmly entrenched.
Sadly acts of evil are often those inflicted by those seeking truth but who don't have the knowledge to understand what they are so intent on discovering. In the process of trying to discover that truth they use condemnation of others as their release for the anger they feel about still be left in the dark, which is, despite your rhetoric, where you are firmly entrenched.
Nice try to twist the issue, which is very clear if you step out of a blinkered politically "correct" blind acceptance and defense of what is essentially a relationship based solely on sodomy.
Also you should become aware of the blatant hypocrisy you and others with your agenda have. You falsely judge anyone who has a different position to you on this issue (and probably all others you hold) as condemning others, when the whole undercurrent and basis of your rant in to condemn me. Hypocrisy at its most blatant. Alongside the amazing hypocrisy of the gay community who violently and aggressively seek to be given rights based on their lust to sodomize each-other, yet want to close down and remove the rights of any one who disagrees with their conduct and its effect on society to even speak about it.
Yes the true control issue here is with the movement which is attempting to force an unproductive and degenerate abuse of sex lifestyle into society under a banner of normality and equality with what the deed is naturally and spiritually designed for.
Lets be clear - the real hate in this issue comes from the reaction of the gay community and it's supporters to any opinion different than their own. Now to even state a simple and obvious truth such as this - "Homosexuality is a relationship based on sodomy, which violates the natural role of our sexual organs to purely satiate base lusts." is met with outrage by the liberal community, even though it is the truth. Anyone with a trace of decency recognizes that sodomy is a perverted violation of the sex organs for debased and degenerate practices.
The liberal community who defend this lifestyle, do it blindly, long since removed from any sense of morality. Yes it is you who do not understand the meaning of the word, if you think that sodomy can under any circumstance be considered a good, right or decent practice - your moral judgment has eroded past rehabilitation and reason.
Think for a moment, without a blind and rabid agenda and desire - in your better judgment and conscience, do you really consider abusing your sexual organs in sodomy is something right, good, decent and moral? It most certainly is not. Consider if you had to review your life and observe when you committed such acts of sexual stimulation without the natural and right partner of the opposite sex to unite those organs. Would it not shame you? To so clearly violate the natural design of yourself and the person you claim to "love" in that way. It is clearly abuse, regardless of the willful submission of the other person.
It is clear to any sound and decent mind that the sex organs were meant to fit together in union of the opposite sex, for the purpose ultimately of procreation.
The fact this is now doubted, and even scoffed at in our society is a sign of how degenerate and damaged it has become.
All value, honour and respect has been lost from the act. What was once valued and revered as sacred and significant as the vehicle for the creation of new life, has now become debased and perverted and used as another "hobby" to juice as much as possible.
Sodomy and fornication is not just a homosexual problem, no indeed it is common among heterosexual also now, that does not legitimize it, two wrongs don't make a right. In reality it is wrong in every instance and when I judge that I am judging the act, deed and lifestyle regardless of who commits it. The basis of morality is recognizing right from wrong, good from bad conduct, harm from what is gentle and healthy. Sodomy and fornication is harmful and violent abuse in every case. It is actually an act of brute lust, absent of any love although some may try and delude themselves it is. If respect is removed from sex, which is it when sodomy and abuse of another person occurs, then it is no longer a loving respectful act. Heterosexuality can be performed with respect and decency because it honors our natural and sacred design, homosexuality in all cases where it is conducted violates that natural and sacred design. And this is why it is morally wrong. Culturally it promotes sodomy under a guise of "love" which many naive liberal buy into due to their distance from a sound moral understanding.
I know most of this will be lost on most who read this, but it is worth one more attempt to explain the reason why these acts and lifestyles are wrong.
Again, love between two men is good, it is what we should all be aiming to do regardless of gender, likewise love between two women. what you fail to grasp is that acts of sodomy are not loving acts, they are abusive violations. It is really as simple as that, but there is a gap of decency and morals in many many minds now and they do not seem able or willing to accept this clear and undeniable truth.
My wish is that everyone recognize their harmful deeds, deeds which are harmful to them and to others and no longer practice them. That includes heterosexuals who practice fornication and sodomy, in our better judgment and conscience these practices are debauched and inside we all know it. The reason homosexuality gets so much attention is because there is no way it can be practiced without sodomy. Sodomy is wrong plain and simple, to promote it hidden within a lifestyle as right and good, is a disgrace and sickening. The culture of the west is going down the pan and spreading sodomy as a normal and right use of sex is not only wrong but harmful to society.
We all need to repent of such deeds and recognize they are wrong and debase and devalue us and others. I feel sorry for those of you hell bent on defending this lifestyle and have seem to lost all sense of decency and morality regarding it.
Here is another piece of factual truth which will offend the politically "correct" liberal community
We do have moral responsibility. But I don't think anyone ever taught you what morality is.
Morality is not a code, written in a book filled with contradictory and outdated myths.
A moral action is one where the actor has considered the benefits and dis-benefits of his actions. He has carefully weighed-up the harm versus the good. Not just to himself but to the wider community.
To do so is not easy. It requires knowledge, compassion, imagination and an open mind. At the heart of a moral man is doubt. Doubt is good because it limits the harm he can do.
Your style of "morality" is not about thinking or compassion but relies on dogma. The upside for you is that the doubt is gone and you get "certainty" in its stead. And it is certainty that is the problem here. People who are certain are always dangerous. They can act without hesitation, they act before evaluating the harm.
In the past we have seen the Certain slaughter women, wipe out infidels. Steal continents from un-believers. They have taken slaves. They have denied rights to people based on gender or skin-color. Genocide is not committed by the doubtful.
So please go away. I am sure you would feel at home amongst the Taliban, but here, the world is getting better as we grow-up as a species. Nowadays, we don't take slaves. We don't burn witches. We don't send black people to the back of the bus. We have stopped gassing Jews. One day we might even stop waging wars based on who has the better prophets.
Let's carry on in the right direction eh?
C.
Are these all your words? This is an absolutely marvelous post.
I think GoldenLight is missing the point of what marriage is.
It's not something that you do to bring children into the world. You could just shack up with your girlfriend and have sex for that. I'm sure GoldenLight is not advocating a ban on marriage for people with reproductive deficiencies either, although they're not going to have children either.
To some extent, marriage is about creating families. Creating a permanent relationship where one did not exist before, but that could also be accomplished by private "commitment ceremonies", so that's not really it either.
Marriage is there to give the participants a special legal status. That makes one partner able to sign consent forms for emergency surgery, allows an easy path to committing someone to a mental institution if the need arises; it allows children to have more than one parent by default; it allows the formation of a single economic entity with shared resources. This serves both the interests of the parties and the interests of society at large. It's a way for one partner to five up some earning ability to take care of common children, and to get health benefits from the spouse's workplace. In the past, marriages were performed exclusively by the clergy, and that is why people attach a religious and moral significance to a mostly economic union.
Regardless of whether you think homosexual relationships are moral or immoral, just as you surely don't plan on denying homosexuals the vote or the right to invest in government bonds, you should not deny them the right to enter into this special contract called marriage.
Straight marriages and straight promiscuity are NOT caused by homosexuals marrying or having relationships. We manage to ruin are marriages just fine all by ourselves.
This is a good post too.
But it's missing something. In addition to the legal angle, marriage is also a way to make a relationship a sacred relationship. Not just in a religious sense. Marriage can be sacred to atheists as well. It is something special.
To call a union a "civil union" takes much of that sanctity away from many of those who would otherwise want to call their relationship a marriage.
To those who say "marriage was always defined as..." please remember that "all men" once referred to "all whites". The definition was changed, because the old definition was discriminatory. Likewise, the definition of marriage must be changed, if it is discriminatory, no matter how you think it "was always" defined.
Nice try to twist the issue, which is very clear if you step out of a blinkered politically "correct" blind acceptance and defense of what is essentially a relationship based solely on sodomy.
I stopped here. I can't read the rest when you show your hatred again and again.
A same-sex relationship is no more "based solely on sodomy" than my or your heterosexual relationship is based solely on fucking.
A relationship that is strong enough to turn into a marriage is based on love, no matter how you interact sexually.
Think for a moment, without a blind and rabid agenda and desire - in your better judgment and conscience, do you really consider abusing your sexual organs in sodomy is something right, good, decent and moral? It most certainly is not.
Oh noes. Mullah Omar is back!
Your standard "frontal" sex act is a loving act if it is consensual. It is rape if it not consensual.
Can you see? It's the consensual thing that defines morality here. Not the body part.
If you don't like that particular neck-of-the-woods, fine. Avoid it. But please don't tell other people what they can and cannot do. You only get that right when it affects you personally.
And please when people don't agree with you, please don't try to beef-up your arguments by enlisting the aid of a fictional supernatural bully. It is not a very convincing argument.
By the way, a paragraph, REQUIRES, in any medium, either a line space, or indentation. When indentation is not available, a line space is REQUIRED. It is not etiquette. Anyone with half a degree of modern education would know this.
Wow. So you get to decide how Christ will judge these people on their death? If we have you to be our steadfast moral compass and passer of judgment then why do we need Jesus or god at all? You seem to have it all figured out and heck, you're (presumably) a real person that I can actually see and hear, unlike that shadowy god fellow who seems awful good at hiding.
Christ is very clear in his teachings, no "evil doers" will enter the kingdom, that includes fornication, sodomy, as well as other sins such as violence, unforgiveness, abuse, hate, lust
Where your moral argument fundamentally breaks down is that if you practice what you preach then it is god who passes judgment, not YOU.
I am aware God is the judge, but the extension of your argument is utter lawlessness in the word without humans with some decency and connection to Gods holy standards maintaining justice. For example your theory would mean we should not judge criminals or murderers and just let them rob and murder, rape and kill without consequence on earth because "God is the judge" - Yes God is the ultimate judge of all, but this does not mean we neglect all morals, laws and standards on earth and abandon the attempt to uphold them.
YOU are inisgnificant compared to the wisdom of the lord. So treat your neighbor with kindness despite his sins,
I do, and it's prejudice to condemn me when you don't know how I have interacting with others, I have said a moral choice and lifestyle is wrong, in the same way I say rape and murder is wrong and I don't think you would disagree with that.
and DO UNTO OTHERS THAT WHICH WOULD DO DONE UNTO YOU. The golden rule my friend.
The royal Law holds true, if I was living a lifestyle of intentional willful sin, without any regret or repentance, and was actually trying to promote that corruption in society, I would definitely want someone to warn me that it was wrong and to stop.
How would you like someone saying you couldn't marry because of your height, or your accent, or the color of your hair, or your skin? Are these things a sin? Being homosexual is no different -
This is totally wrong and untrue. We do not choose the colour of our skin but we do choose which desires and thoughts to act upon. We have control over our desires and thoughts, maybe you do not think so, but we do. They can be over ridden with love and respect.
if you can't understand that then you have a lot to learn about morality and especially equality. What of those born with genetic defects that render them sterile. They are therefore unable to reproduce and useless under your definition of what a human is on earth for - why would god allow these sterile beings to be born?
Not everyone is supposed to have children, who is to say what the time or season is in which the capacity could return, one thing is for sure it is only possible through the sexual organs, which is the right and proper use of them
In fact, any homosexual is doing far for for the other people on this planet by not having children than you are by pumping out the babies. The world is already overcrowded and it can't support an endlessly increasing population of good Christian tykes, no matter how well they are raised. In god's eyes, a homosexual may even be looked upon favorable, as he has sacrificed his divine right to reproduce so that other children may lead a life of greater plenty as there is more to go around fewer people.
This argument is twisted and false - they don't sacrifice their procreation out of a desire to save the earth lol what utter delusion. It is because they have acquired the inclination to desire the same sex and have no seeming desire for the opposite
Lastly, it is narrow minded of you to assume that morality can only come from religion or a belief in god. Morality comes from deep thought and our own natural sense of justice - we are born with the concept of fairness hard wired into our brains. Morality at its very simplest is the golden rule - do unto others. And yet religions frequently ignore this golden rule and cause much bloodshed, pain, and suffering in the name of lesser holy rules. If everyone treated others how they themselves wished to be treated, we'd have no need for any further morality - as all moral questions can be divined back to the essential golden rule.
Rather it is narrow minded and wrong for you to assume I think morality can only come from religion. Morality comes from our conscience, which is inexplicable to the atheist evolutionist as it is counter natural selection theories, it is God given. Even if you think the conscience is your own making, in no way can sodomy be considered a loving act in any conscience.
Now I am an atheist. I don't find comfort in the idea of a god nor am I fearful of death or of the unknown. But I consider myself a highly moral person. I refine my morals through taking in new knowledge, new experiences, and weighing them against basic logic of fairness and right and wrong. And would you closely watch me while I knew no one was watching, you'd find me to be a quite moral person indeed.
That is quite possible, but to blindly accept sodomy as moral shows you have a lapse in your conscience as most who consider themselves "liberal" or politically correct do
Until you free your own mind and realize that all humans on this earth are brothers regardless of the frivolous traits that seem to divide us, please keep your hate out of this forum and save it for those that have a stomach for such morally reprehensible bile.
Until you free your mind from the politically "correct" incorrect dogma propaganda which has you believing that sodomite sex is moral and right in anyway, then you will always confuse love of your fellow man with sodomy and that IS morally reprehensible bile
Comments
we do have moral responsibility. But i don't think anyone ever taught you what morality is.
Morality is not a code, written in a book filled with contradictory and outdated myths.
A moral action is one where the actor has considered the benefits and dis-benefits of his actions. He has carefully weighed-up the harm versus the good. Not just to himself but to the wider community.
To do so is not easy. It requires knowledge, compassion, imagination and an open mind. At the heart of a moral man is doubt. Doubt is good because it limits the harm he can do.
Your style of "morality" is not about thinking or compassion but relies on dogma. The upside for you is that the doubt is gone and you get "certainty" in its stead. And it is certainty that is the problem here. People who are certain are always dangerous. They can act without hesitation, they act before evaluating the harm.
In the past we have seen the certain slaughter women, wipe out infidels. Steal continents from un-believers. They have taken slaves. They have denied rights to people based on gender or skin-color. Genocide is not committed by the doubtful.
So please go away. I am sure you would feel at home amongst the taliban, but here, the world is getting better as we grow-up as a species. Nowadays, we don't take slaves. We don't burn witches. We don't send black people to the back of the bus. We have stopped gassing jews. One day we might even stop waging wars based on who has the better prophets.
Let's carry on in the right direction eh?
C.
+1000
To Apple and Mr Jobs,
I have been a supporter of apple for about 3 or 4 years now, like the operating system, the product design and it's innovative improvements to both aspects of it's output. I've recently spent the most I ever have on computer hardware after a successful period, purchasing a 30 inch display for the MBP I use, a macbook air and an iphone. I had become almost intoxicated with the company, and was not disappointed with the new products.
However, what I was disheartened and disappointed at one morning was one of the news feeds delivered to my inbox. Apparently Apple are now actively supporting homosexual "marriage" and are using funds they have made to advance this cause. I believe that marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman, for the purpose of bringing children, naturally into the world. It is a Holy covenant ordained by God and affirmed biologically for this purpose. Those who engage in same sex relationships are violating our natural and sacred design, which is clearly the union of male and female organs in a sexual nature. Anything outside of that is sodomy, which is essentially a violation of another body, regardless of their willing submission, for ones own pleasure and abuse.
The fact that you Mr Jobs and Apple, are now towing the line of this popular morally blind crusade of deceitful "equality" seeking, should I suppose, be of no real surprise. It seems the value of respect, decency and sex has been reduced and almost erased from western culture. I have no problem with people who label themselves gay, but if they practice what their lust entails, then they are violating natural and sacred laws and orders. To do this willfully, without any regret or conscience, actually in pride, brings great social and spiritual degeneration. The fact that you seem so blind to this amazes me.
I object to any funds from products I purchase going towards a cause I disagree with and think is morally corrupt and perverted. The promotion of illicit sodomy relationships as decent and right under the banner of marriage, is really appalling in my view. It is essentially thumbing your nose at the great system programmer of this universe, and saying "we know you created an awesome system of architecture here, but we think this virus should have equal status and merit"
Yes I would compare God to the Master programmer of these myriad genetic and bio-mechanical systems we have and are, the originator of that intangible and unknown consciousness/spirit within. And I would compare degenerate practices to a virus upon our society. We do not heal a virus by funding and encouraging it, we have to recognize the correct way the system should function and rewrite the code.
Which analogously would be repentance of abusive lusts and violence, and a return in humility to holiness, purity, and goodness.
What should two same sex who are consenting do if they desire each other?
They should recognize that not every desire or thought we have merits or justifies expression. Many thoughts that come can be depraved and violent, it is our choice whether to act upon them, perpetuate them, or reject them as not right and harmful.
We were not designed by God or nature to conduct ourselves sexually with the same gender. The acts which ensue from such desires are counter to what is natural, holy, and respectful in our own better judgment and conscience.
The argument is usually put forth, if you are not harming anyone its OK, but the reality is a great deal of harm is occurring under the surface and is not recognized.
Not only on a Spiritual level for those who believe, but also on a social cultural level. Family breakdown, promiscuity, thoughts, lifestyles spread throughout society like wildfire, and in a liberal society that loses all sense of balance and proportion, an "anything goes alternative lifestyle" becomes normal.
As soon as you devalue sex and marriage, remove God from the equation, then anything goes, and the "alternative community" is at the forefront of this social motion, it has intertwined with heterosexuals also and now the programming system of order "marriage" has been essentially broken as all respect has gone.
The purpose of marriage is the covenant commitment and bond between the male and the female to further life, creation and human beings. We are designed biologically for that function and it is essential that we respect our design. Respect is a central part of love, if we do not respect our design, and seek to violate it, in order to fulfill base lusts then it is not love. We are to love our fellow man, and woman are to love their fellow sisters, but as soon as lust arises in these cases, all respect and love is gone. It becomes purely a love for the flesh and not a love for the soul, personality and being. Why? Because if there was LOVE between the same sex, they would respect each-others natural design and order and not want to violate and sodomize each-other, regardless of the willingness of the person.
Trying to dress up sodomy relationships as legitimate and right by honoring them with the term "marriage" is very misguided and shameful.
I might have know that the bitten apple logo was an atheistic reference to the tree of knowledge and satan.
I won't be buying another apple product again. I wish that you wake up to holiness and Spirituality and what is right and true. The earthly physical life is but a blip, what matters is the destiny of our eternal Soul and Spirit, and that choice is in our own hands. We need to repent, humble ourselves, turn from our degenerate ways and sincerely walk in a new light of goodness, holiness and love.
I no longer am happy to be associated with Apple and I would encourage anyone else with decency to take a stand against Apples active support of "gay marriage" and boycott any further product purchases.
And the award for largest paragraph goes too...
My take on this rant?
It is hatred being preached as non-confrontationally as possible, but hate all the same.
For the thread starter, just remember that other conservatives like Rush Limbaugh (at least was at one time) use Macs. Heck, I still float the idea in my head of forming R.U.M. (Republican Users of Macintoshes)...
On the other hand, organizations who represent you spending money in a manner that you don't like *is* objectionable. If the Baathist party in Iraq was called a "union", you know American Union Bosses would be down with their requiring people to be members for jobs...
It's not something that you do to bring children into the world. You could just shack up with your girlfriend and have sex for that. I'm sure GoldenLight is not advocating a ban on marriage for people with reproductive deficiencies either, although they're not going to have children either.
To some extent, marriage is about creating families. Creating a permanent relationship where one did not exist before, but that could also be accomplished by private "commitment ceremonies", so that's not really it either.
Marriage is there to give the participants a special legal status. That makes one partner able to sign consent forms for emergency surgery, allows an easy path to committing someone to a mental institution if the need arises; it allows children to have more than one parent by default; it allows the formation of a single economic entity with shared resources. This serves both the interests of the parties and the interests of society at large. It's a way for one partner to five up some earning ability to take care of common children, and to get health benefits from the spouse's workplace. In the past, marriages were performed exclusively by the clergy, and that is why people attach a religious and moral significance to a mostly economic union.
Regardless of whether you think homosexual relationships are moral or immoral, just as you surely don't plan on denying homosexuals the vote or the right to invest in government bonds, you should not deny them the right to enter into this special contract called marriage.
Straight marriages and straight promiscuity are NOT caused by homosexuals marrying or having relationships. We manage to ruin are marriages just fine all by ourselves.
I think GoldenLight is missing the point of what marriage is.
I also argued this point, but he chose to avoid it. Marriage has different meanings to the state and church. This is a state law, and it applies to the state's understanding of the term.
Might I also add that there is no shortage of gay-friendly churches, some of which condone gay marriage. As a christian, this irks me greatly, and I don't support these churches. There is plenty to fight about within the church itself before worrying about the matters of states. States come and go.
God grant me the serenity
to ignore the assholes I cannot change;
courage to change the people who thoughtfully disagree;
and wisdom to know the difference.
And maybe "A world without morals" would suit you
Sadly acts of evil are often those inflicted by those seeking truth but who don't have the knowledge to understand what they are so intent on discovering. In the process of trying to discover that truth they use condemnation of others as their release for the anger they feel about still being left in the dark, which is, despite your rhetoric, where you are firmly entrenched.
Sadly acts of evil are often those inflicted by those seeking truth but who don't have the knowledge to understand what they are so intent on discovering. In the process of trying to discover that truth they use condemnation of others as their release for the anger they feel about still be left in the dark, which is, despite your rhetoric, where you are firmly entrenched.
Nice try to twist the issue, which is very clear if you step out of a blinkered politically "correct" blind acceptance and defense of what is essentially a relationship based solely on sodomy.
Also you should become aware of the blatant hypocrisy you and others with your agenda have. You falsely judge anyone who has a different position to you on this issue (and probably all others you hold) as condemning others, when the whole undercurrent and basis of your rant in to condemn me. Hypocrisy at its most blatant. Alongside the amazing hypocrisy of the gay community who violently and aggressively seek to be given rights based on their lust to sodomize each-other, yet want to close down and remove the rights of any one who disagrees with their conduct and its effect on society to even speak about it.
Yes the true control issue here is with the movement which is attempting to force an unproductive and degenerate abuse of sex lifestyle into society under a banner of normality and equality with what the deed is naturally and spiritually designed for.
Lets be clear - the real hate in this issue comes from the reaction of the gay community and it's supporters to any opinion different than their own. Now to even state a simple and obvious truth such as this - "Homosexuality is a relationship based on sodomy, which violates the natural role of our sexual organs to purely satiate base lusts." is met with outrage by the liberal community, even though it is the truth. Anyone with a trace of decency recognizes that sodomy is a perverted violation of the sex organs for debased and degenerate practices.
The liberal community who defend this lifestyle, do it blindly, long since removed from any sense of morality. Yes it is you who do not understand the meaning of the word, if you think that sodomy can under any circumstance be considered a good, right or decent practice - your moral judgment has eroded past rehabilitation and reason.
Think for a moment, without a blind and rabid agenda and desire - in your better judgment and conscience, do you really consider abusing your sexual organs in sodomy is something right, good, decent and moral? It most certainly is not. Consider if you had to review your life and observe when you committed such acts of sexual stimulation without the natural and right partner of the opposite sex to unite those organs. Would it not shame you? To so clearly violate the natural design of yourself and the person you claim to "love" in that way. It is clearly abuse, regardless of the willful submission of the other person.
It is clear to any sound and decent mind that the sex organs were meant to fit together in union of the opposite sex, for the purpose ultimately of procreation.
The fact this is now doubted, and even scoffed at in our society is a sign of how degenerate and damaged it has become.
All value, honour and respect has been lost from the act. What was once valued and revered as sacred and significant as the vehicle for the creation of new life, has now become debased and perverted and used as another "hobby" to juice as much as possible.
Sodomy and fornication is not just a homosexual problem, no indeed it is common among heterosexual also now, that does not legitimize it, two wrongs don't make a right. In reality it is wrong in every instance and when I judge that I am judging the act, deed and lifestyle regardless of who commits it. The basis of morality is recognizing right from wrong, good from bad conduct, harm from what is gentle and healthy. Sodomy and fornication is harmful and violent abuse in every case. It is actually an act of brute lust, absent of any love although some may try and delude themselves it is. If respect is removed from sex, which is it when sodomy and abuse of another person occurs, then it is no longer a loving respectful act. Heterosexuality can be performed with respect and decency because it honors our natural and sacred design, homosexuality in all cases where it is conducted violates that natural and sacred design. And this is why it is morally wrong. Culturally it promotes sodomy under a guise of "love" which many naive liberal buy into due to their distance from a sound moral understanding.
I know most of this will be lost on most who read this, but it is worth one more attempt to explain the reason why these acts and lifestyles are wrong.
Again, love between two men is good, it is what we should all be aiming to do regardless of gender, likewise love between two women. what you fail to grasp is that acts of sodomy are not loving acts, they are abusive violations. It is really as simple as that, but there is a gap of decency and morals in many many minds now and they do not seem able or willing to accept this clear and undeniable truth.
My wish is that everyone recognize their harmful deeds, deeds which are harmful to them and to others and no longer practice them. That includes heterosexuals who practice fornication and sodomy, in our better judgment and conscience these practices are debauched and inside we all know it. The reason homosexuality gets so much attention is because there is no way it can be practiced without sodomy. Sodomy is wrong plain and simple, to promote it hidden within a lifestyle as right and good, is a disgrace and sickening. The culture of the west is going down the pan and spreading sodomy as a normal and right use of sex is not only wrong but harmful to society.
We all need to repent of such deeds and recognize they are wrong and debase and devalue us and others. I feel sorry for those of you hell bent on defending this lifestyle and have seem to lost all sense of decency and morality regarding it.
Here is another piece of factual truth which will offend the politically "correct" liberal community
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7707335.stm
The truth often challenges your will and desires, especially if those desires are debased.
We do have moral responsibility. But I don't think anyone ever taught you what morality is.
Morality is not a code, written in a book filled with contradictory and outdated myths.
A moral action is one where the actor has considered the benefits and dis-benefits of his actions. He has carefully weighed-up the harm versus the good. Not just to himself but to the wider community.
To do so is not easy. It requires knowledge, compassion, imagination and an open mind. At the heart of a moral man is doubt. Doubt is good because it limits the harm he can do.
Your style of "morality" is not about thinking or compassion but relies on dogma. The upside for you is that the doubt is gone and you get "certainty" in its stead. And it is certainty that is the problem here. People who are certain are always dangerous. They can act without hesitation, they act before evaluating the harm.
In the past we have seen the Certain slaughter women, wipe out infidels. Steal continents from un-believers. They have taken slaves. They have denied rights to people based on gender or skin-color. Genocide is not committed by the doubtful.
So please go away. I am sure you would feel at home amongst the Taliban, but here, the world is getting better as we grow-up as a species. Nowadays, we don't take slaves. We don't burn witches. We don't send black people to the back of the bus. We have stopped gassing Jews. One day we might even stop waging wars based on who has the better prophets.
Let's carry on in the right direction eh?
C.
Are these all your words? This is an absolutely marvelous post.
I think GoldenLight is missing the point of what marriage is.
It's not something that you do to bring children into the world. You could just shack up with your girlfriend and have sex for that. I'm sure GoldenLight is not advocating a ban on marriage for people with reproductive deficiencies either, although they're not going to have children either.
To some extent, marriage is about creating families. Creating a permanent relationship where one did not exist before, but that could also be accomplished by private "commitment ceremonies", so that's not really it either.
Marriage is there to give the participants a special legal status. That makes one partner able to sign consent forms for emergency surgery, allows an easy path to committing someone to a mental institution if the need arises; it allows children to have more than one parent by default; it allows the formation of a single economic entity with shared resources. This serves both the interests of the parties and the interests of society at large. It's a way for one partner to five up some earning ability to take care of common children, and to get health benefits from the spouse's workplace. In the past, marriages were performed exclusively by the clergy, and that is why people attach a religious and moral significance to a mostly economic union.
Regardless of whether you think homosexual relationships are moral or immoral, just as you surely don't plan on denying homosexuals the vote or the right to invest in government bonds, you should not deny them the right to enter into this special contract called marriage.
Straight marriages and straight promiscuity are NOT caused by homosexuals marrying or having relationships. We manage to ruin are marriages just fine all by ourselves.
This is a good post too.
But it's missing something. In addition to the legal angle, marriage is also a way to make a relationship a sacred relationship. Not just in a religious sense. Marriage can be sacred to atheists as well. It is something special.
To call a union a "civil union" takes much of that sanctity away from many of those who would otherwise want to call their relationship a marriage.
To those who say "marriage was always defined as..." please remember that "all men" once referred to "all whites". The definition was changed, because the old definition was discriminatory. Likewise, the definition of marriage must be changed, if it is discriminatory, no matter how you think it "was always" defined.
And the award for largest paragraph goes too...
My take on this rant?
It is hatred being preached as non-confrontationally as possible, but hate all the same.
My take on your comment is it is based on fear and hatred of my view which challenges your blindly held opinion with sound reason.
At school they actually teach that taking a new paragraph initials a line break - a space between is web etiquette
A letter becomes a rant when you are emotionally offended by the view and hate what it says without a reason to counter the view.
Nice try to twist the issue, which is very clear if you step out of a blinkered politically "correct" blind acceptance and defense of what is essentially a relationship based solely on sodomy.
I stopped here. I can't read the rest when you show your hatred again and again.
A same-sex relationship is no more "based solely on sodomy" than my or your heterosexual relationship is based solely on fucking.
A relationship that is strong enough to turn into a marriage is based on love, no matter how you interact sexually.
Think for a moment, without a blind and rabid agenda and desire - in your better judgment and conscience, do you really consider abusing your sexual organs in sodomy is something right, good, decent and moral? It most certainly is not.
Oh noes. Mullah Omar is back!
Your standard "frontal" sex act is a loving act if it is consensual. It is rape if it not consensual.
Can you see? It's the consensual thing that defines morality here. Not the body part.
If you don't like that particular neck-of-the-woods, fine. Avoid it. But please don't tell other people what they can and cannot do. You only get that right when it affects you personally.
And please when people don't agree with you, please don't try to beef-up your arguments by enlisting the aid of a fictional supernatural bully. It is not a very convincing argument.
C.
Wow. So you get to decide how Christ will judge these people on their death? If we have you to be our steadfast moral compass and passer of judgment then why do we need Jesus or god at all? You seem to have it all figured out and heck, you're (presumably) a real person that I can actually see and hear, unlike that shadowy god fellow who seems awful good at hiding.
Christ is very clear in his teachings, no "evil doers" will enter the kingdom, that includes fornication, sodomy, as well as other sins such as violence, unforgiveness, abuse, hate, lust
Where your moral argument fundamentally breaks down is that if you practice what you preach then it is god who passes judgment, not YOU.
I am aware God is the judge, but the extension of your argument is utter lawlessness in the word without humans with some decency and connection to Gods holy standards maintaining justice. For example your theory would mean we should not judge criminals or murderers and just let them rob and murder, rape and kill without consequence on earth because "God is the judge" - Yes God is the ultimate judge of all, but this does not mean we neglect all morals, laws and standards on earth and abandon the attempt to uphold them.
YOU are inisgnificant compared to the wisdom of the lord. So treat your neighbor with kindness despite his sins,
I do, and it's prejudice to condemn me when you don't know how I have interacting with others, I have said a moral choice and lifestyle is wrong, in the same way I say rape and murder is wrong and I don't think you would disagree with that.
and DO UNTO OTHERS THAT WHICH WOULD DO DONE UNTO YOU. The golden rule my friend.
The royal Law holds true, if I was living a lifestyle of intentional willful sin, without any regret or repentance, and was actually trying to promote that corruption in society, I would definitely want someone to warn me that it was wrong and to stop.
How would you like someone saying you couldn't marry because of your height, or your accent, or the color of your hair, or your skin? Are these things a sin? Being homosexual is no different -
This is totally wrong and untrue. We do not choose the colour of our skin but we do choose which desires and thoughts to act upon. We have control over our desires and thoughts, maybe you do not think so, but we do. They can be over ridden with love and respect.
if you can't understand that then you have a lot to learn about morality and especially equality. What of those born with genetic defects that render them sterile. They are therefore unable to reproduce and useless under your definition of what a human is on earth for - why would god allow these sterile beings to be born?
Not everyone is supposed to have children, who is to say what the time or season is in which the capacity could return, one thing is for sure it is only possible through the sexual organs, which is the right and proper use of them
In fact, any homosexual is doing far for for the other people on this planet by not having children than you are by pumping out the babies. The world is already overcrowded and it can't support an endlessly increasing population of good Christian tykes, no matter how well they are raised. In god's eyes, a homosexual may even be looked upon favorable, as he has sacrificed his divine right to reproduce so that other children may lead a life of greater plenty as there is more to go around fewer people.
This argument is twisted and false - they don't sacrifice their procreation out of a desire to save the earth lol what utter delusion. It is because they have acquired the inclination to desire the same sex and have no seeming desire for the opposite
Lastly, it is narrow minded of you to assume that morality can only come from religion or a belief in god. Morality comes from deep thought and our own natural sense of justice - we are born with the concept of fairness hard wired into our brains. Morality at its very simplest is the golden rule - do unto others. And yet religions frequently ignore this golden rule and cause much bloodshed, pain, and suffering in the name of lesser holy rules. If everyone treated others how they themselves wished to be treated, we'd have no need for any further morality - as all moral questions can be divined back to the essential golden rule.
Rather it is narrow minded and wrong for you to assume I think morality can only come from religion. Morality comes from our conscience, which is inexplicable to the atheist evolutionist as it is counter natural selection theories, it is God given. Even if you think the conscience is your own making, in no way can sodomy be considered a loving act in any conscience.
Now I am an atheist. I don't find comfort in the idea of a god nor am I fearful of death or of the unknown. But I consider myself a highly moral person. I refine my morals through taking in new knowledge, new experiences, and weighing them against basic logic of fairness and right and wrong. And would you closely watch me while I knew no one was watching, you'd find me to be a quite moral person indeed.
That is quite possible, but to blindly accept sodomy as moral shows you have a lapse in your conscience as most who consider themselves "liberal" or politically correct do
Until you free your own mind and realize that all humans on this earth are brothers regardless of the frivolous traits that seem to divide us, please keep your hate out of this forum and save it for those that have a stomach for such morally reprehensible bile.
Until you free your mind from the politically "correct" incorrect dogma propaganda which has you believing that sodomite sex is moral and right in anyway, then you will always confuse love of your fellow man with sodomy and that IS morally reprehensible bile
It is entirely possible for a homosexual couple to have a relationship without sodomy.
It's called "lesbians"
C.