Surprisingly, in this I agree with you. The legal recognition of gay marriage is a political matter, and IMO a company should not have an official opinion about the matter. It's bad both as an employer and as a vendor.
Apple has stated it considers this a human rights issue, not a political issue, which is why it spoke out.
People of good conscience have an obligation to speak up.
Ironically, the inscription itself forgets the gays and the gypsies.
C.
Talk about over the top melodrama! Just because the majority in this country does not support gay marriage does not mean that they're "coming after the gays". You simply cannot deal truthfully with this issue, you have to make outrageous claims.
Talk about over the top melodrama! Just because the majority in this country does not support gay marriage does not mean that they're "coming after the gays". You simply cannot deal truthfully with this issue, you have to make outrageous claims.
For an old feller you don't know much about your history.
The same religious zealotry that drives the anti-gay agenda was *exactly* what allowed Hitler to do his thing. Hitler got a free pass from Pius XII. There was a massive cultural tolerance for prejudice and discrimination. The brownshirts could act because no one wanted to stand up and openly support gays and gypsies and jews.
Would you have stood up to defend the gays. Would Goldenlight?
If you read some of these tragic posts on this thread, it is clear the same old prejudices exist. They have not gone away. Read them again, you can see how the pious and the bullies are still the best of bedfellows.
But thankfully, times have changed. And now some of us are prepared to stand-up and speak our mind. Free speech. Doncha just love it?
I have been a supporter of apple for about 3 or 4 years now, like the operating system, the product design and it's innovative improvements to both aspects of it's output. I've recently spent the most I ever have on computer hardware after a successful period, purchasing a 30 inch display for the MBP I use, a macbook air and an iphone. I had become almost intoxicated with the company, and was not disappointed with the new products.
However, what I was disheartened and disappointed at one morning was one of the news feeds delivered to my inbox. Apparently Apple are now actively supporting homosexual "marriage" and are using funds they have made to advance this cause. I believe that marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman, for the purpose of bringing children, naturally into the world. It is a Holy covenant ordained by God and affirmed biologically for this purpose. Those who engage in same sex relationships are violating our natural and sacred design, which is clearly the union of male and female organs in a sexual nature. Anything outside of that is sodomy, which is essentially a violation of another body, regardless of their willing submission, for ones own pleasure and abuse.
The fact that you Mr Jobs and Apple, are now towing the line of this popular morally blind crusade of deceitful "equality" seeking, should I suppose, be of no real surprise. It seems the value of respect, decency and sex has been reduced and almost erased from western culture. I have no problem with people who label themselves gay, but if they practice what their lust entails, then they are violating natural and sacred laws and orders. To do this willfully, without any regret or conscience, actually in pride, brings great social and spiritual degeneration. The fact that you seem so blind to this amazes me.
I object to any funds from products I purchase going towards a cause I disagree with and think is morally corrupt and perverted. The promotion of illicit sodomy relationships as decent and right under the banner of marriage, is really appalling in my view. It is essentially thumbing your nose at the great system programmer of this universe, and saying "we know you created an awesome system of architecture here, but we think this virus should have equal status and merit"
Yes I would compare God to the Master programmer of these myriad genetic and bio-mechanical systems we have and are, the originator of that intangible and unknown consciousness/spirit within. And I would compare degenerate practices to a virus upon our society. We do not heal a virus by funding and encouraging it, we have to recognize the correct way the system should function and rewrite the code.
Which analogously would be repentance of abusive lusts and violence, and a return in humility to holiness, purity, and goodness.
What should two same sex who are consenting do if they desire each other?
They should recognize that not every desire or thought we have merits or justifies expression. Many thoughts that come can be depraved and violent, it is our choice whether to act upon them, perpetuate them, or reject them as not right and harmful.
We were not designed by God or nature to conduct ourselves sexually with the same gender. The acts which ensue from such desires are counter to what is natural, holy, and respectful in our own better judgment and conscience.
The argument is usually put forth, if you are not harming anyone its OK, but the reality is a great deal of harm is occurring under the surface and is not recognized.
Not only on a Spiritual level for those who believe, but also on a social cultural level. Family breakdown, promiscuity, thoughts, lifestyles spread throughout society like wildfire, and in a liberal society that loses all sense of balance and proportion, an "anything goes alternative lifestyle" becomes normal.
As soon as you devalue sex and marriage, remove God from the equation, then anything goes, and the "alternative community" is at the forefront of this social motion, it has intertwined with heterosexuals also and now the programming system of order "marriage" has been essentially broken as all respect has gone.
The purpose of marriage is the covenant commitment and bond between the male and the female to further life, creation and human beings. We are designed biologically for that function and it is essential that we respect our design. Respect is a central part of love, if we do not respect our design, and seek to violate it, in order to fulfill base lusts then it is not love. We are to love our fellow man, and woman are to love their fellow sisters, but as soon as lust arises in these cases, all respect and love is gone. It becomes purely a love for the flesh and not a love for the soul, personality and being. Why? Because if there was LOVE between the same sex, they would respect each-others natural design and order and not want to violate and sodomize each-other, regardless of the willingness of the person.
Trying to dress up sodomy relationships as legitimate and right by honoring them with the term "marriage" is very misguided and shameful.
I might have know that the bitten apple logo was an atheistic reference to the tree of knowledge and satan.
I won't be buying another apple product again. I wish that you wake up to holiness and Spirituality and what is right and true. The earthly physical life is but a blip, what matters is the destiny of our eternal Soul and Spirit, and that choice is in our own hands. We need to repent, humble ourselves, turn from our degenerate ways and sincerely walk in a new light of goodness, holiness and love.
I no longer am happy to be associated with Apple and I would encourage anyone else with decency to take a stand against Apples active support of "gay marriage" and boycott any further product purchases.
For an old feller you don't know much about your history.
The same religious zealotry that drives the anti-gay agenda was *exactly* what allowed Hitler to do his thing. Hitler got a free pass from Pius XII. There was a massive cultural tolerance for prejudice and discrimination. The brownshirts could act because no one wanted to stand up and openly support gays and gypsies and jews.
Would you have stood up to defend the gays. Would Goldenlight?
If you read some of these tragic posts on this thread, it is clear the same old prejudices exist. They have not gone away. Read them again, you can see how the pious and the bullies are still the best of bedfellows.
But thankfully, times have changed. And now some of us are prepared to stand-up and speak our mind. Free speech. Doncha just love it?
C.
(keeping religious nutters in check since 2004)
Hitler got a free pass from YOUR countryman, Neville Chamberlain. The politics of your country could have prevented WWII, but, as with most liberal policies, they didn't.
You still have no standing in this thread, as you don't live here, and I'm glad, we have enough liberals. You can't vote on this issue, nobody cares WTF you think about it, because your not a US citizen. What you think doesn't mean squat in this country.
Hitler got a free pass from YOUR countryman, Neville Chamberlain. The politics of your country could have prevented WWII, but, as with most liberal policies, they didn't.
You still have no standing in this thread, as you don't live here, and I'm glad, we have enough liberals. You can't vote on this issue, nobody cares WTF you think about it, because your not a US citizen. What you think doesn't mean squat in this country.
Let me get this right... According to you...
Chamberlain *should* have intervened sooner in another country.
But no outsider has a right to stick their nose into California's internal business.
I find it impressive that you have made two consecutive statements that contradict one another so completely! Well done.
Dude, I think I hear what you are saying. How dare some liberal British guy to try to influence the lives of Californians. How very dare they? What's it to them?
And that's the point. The god camp want to mess with the private lives of law-abiding, tax paying citizens. They want to take away a right that other tax payers have.
It's just wrong. How dare they?
C.
If it makes you happy, please call me a liberal again. Freedom is not a dirty word in these parts.
Hitler got a free pass from YOUR countryman, Neville Chamberlain. The politics of your country could have prevented WWII, but, as with most liberal policies, they didn't.
You still have no standing in this thread, as you don't live here, and I'm glad, we have enough liberals. You can't vote on this issue, nobody cares WTF you think about it, because your not a US citizen. What you think doesn't mean squat in this country.
He got a free pass here too, right up to around 1940 - try and read some history (without moving your lips).
You see, that's not enough. It's separate but equal. Don't you understand the feeling you get from recognition? Sure, you can call it what you want, but without recognition of that title, it means much, much less.
Sorry if I was being ambiguous. I want a clean split between civil union the legal institution, and marriage the religious/social institution. And not just for gays, so I'm not discriminating here.
Recognition comes from individuals. Words on a paper are not recognition.
He got a free pass here too, right up to around 1940 - try and read some history (without moving your lips).
Get a clue, Chamberlain was an appeaser. He signed the Munich Agreement, the US was not party to signing that death warrant for Czechoslovakia. Maybe YOU should study history.
Get a clue, Chamberlain was an appeaser. He signed the Munich Agreement, the US was not party to signing that death warrant for Czechoslovakia. Maybe YOU should study history.
this has to do with intolerance toward homosexuals how?
Get a clue, Chamberlain was an appeaser. He signed the Munich Agreement, the US was not party to signing that death warrant for Czechoslovakia. Maybe YOU should study history.
I have, extensively. Chamberlain was indeed an appeaser, but he did it mainly because Britain was in no state to fight a war in 1936; and there were many economic and political reasons for this. And even before the Munich Agreement, Chamberlain got the country preparing for war, so he knew exactly what was coming. They don't teach this before 3rd grade (where you evidently completed your education), so you may have missed the memo. There is usually more to history that the first line in your text book...
I'll give you 10 mins to scramble some reply from Wikipedia... can you read that without moving your lips?
I have, extensively. Chamberlain was indeed an appeaser, but he did it mainly because Britain was in no state to fight a war in 1936; and there were many economic and political reasons for this. And even before the Munich Agreement, Chamberlain got the country preparing for war, so he knew exactly what was coming. They don't teach this before 3rd grade (where you evidently completed your education), so you may have missed the memo. There is usually more to history that the first line in your text book...
I'll give you 10 mins to scramble some reply from Wikipedia... can you read that without moving your lips?
Yes, yes, I think they are ready to take the final History 101 quiz now.
"In your opinion, nobody but you has the right to an opinion."
Errrrrm I didn't say that.
And thanks, I have every intention of staying in Scotland. We at least have a semblance of understanding and equality. It's hard being superior, but we somehow manage.
Oh, and I don't need to justify my "queer behaviour" to anyone. It's the way I am, and I don't owe anybody an explanation for that.
I had no idea that Lesbians choose to not engage in oral and/or anal sexual intercourse? Hell, I don't know of any Heterosexual couples who don't engage at least in Oral Sex, which is part of the definition of Sodomy.
What a dull existence if we chose to turn something so divine as this into such a sterile procedure.
Comments
Surprisingly, in this I agree with you. The legal recognition of gay marriage is a political matter, and IMO a company should not have an official opinion about the matter. It's bad both as an employer and as a vendor.
Apple has stated it considers this a human rights issue, not a political issue, which is why it spoke out.
Apple has stated it considers this a human rights issue, not a political issue, which is why it spoke out.
People of good conscience have an obligation to speak up.
Ironically, the inscription itself forgets the gays and the gypsies.
C.
People of good conscience have an obligation to speak up.
Ironically, the inscription itself forgets the gays and the gypsies.
C.
So not a word about mexicans?!?!
People of good conscience have an obligation to speak up.
Ironically, the inscription itself forgets the gays and the gypsies.
C.
Talk about over the top melodrama! Just because the majority in this country does not support gay marriage does not mean that they're "coming after the gays". You simply cannot deal truthfully with this issue, you have to make outrageous claims.
Talk about over the top melodrama! Just because the majority in this country does not support gay marriage does not mean that they're "coming after the gays". You simply cannot deal truthfully with this issue, you have to make outrageous claims.
For an old feller you don't know much about your history.
The same religious zealotry that drives the anti-gay agenda was *exactly* what allowed Hitler to do his thing. Hitler got a free pass from Pius XII. There was a massive cultural tolerance for prejudice and discrimination. The brownshirts could act because no one wanted to stand up and openly support gays and gypsies and jews.
Would you have stood up to defend the gays. Would Goldenlight?
If you read some of these tragic posts on this thread, it is clear the same old prejudices exist. They have not gone away. Read them again, you can see how the pious and the bullies are still the best of bedfellows.
But thankfully, times have changed. And now some of us are prepared to stand-up and speak our mind. Free speech. Doncha just love it?
C.
(keeping religious nutters in check since 2004)
To Apple and Mr Jobs,
I have been a supporter of apple for about 3 or 4 years now, like the operating system, the product design and it's innovative improvements to both aspects of it's output. I've recently spent the most I ever have on computer hardware after a successful period, purchasing a 30 inch display for the MBP I use, a macbook air and an iphone. I had become almost intoxicated with the company, and was not disappointed with the new products.
However, what I was disheartened and disappointed at one morning was one of the news feeds delivered to my inbox. Apparently Apple are now actively supporting homosexual "marriage" and are using funds they have made to advance this cause. I believe that marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman, for the purpose of bringing children, naturally into the world. It is a Holy covenant ordained by God and affirmed biologically for this purpose. Those who engage in same sex relationships are violating our natural and sacred design, which is clearly the union of male and female organs in a sexual nature. Anything outside of that is sodomy, which is essentially a violation of another body, regardless of their willing submission, for ones own pleasure and abuse.
The fact that you Mr Jobs and Apple, are now towing the line of this popular morally blind crusade of deceitful "equality" seeking, should I suppose, be of no real surprise. It seems the value of respect, decency and sex has been reduced and almost erased from western culture. I have no problem with people who label themselves gay, but if they practice what their lust entails, then they are violating natural and sacred laws and orders. To do this willfully, without any regret or conscience, actually in pride, brings great social and spiritual degeneration. The fact that you seem so blind to this amazes me.
I object to any funds from products I purchase going towards a cause I disagree with and think is morally corrupt and perverted. The promotion of illicit sodomy relationships as decent and right under the banner of marriage, is really appalling in my view. It is essentially thumbing your nose at the great system programmer of this universe, and saying "we know you created an awesome system of architecture here, but we think this virus should have equal status and merit"
Yes I would compare God to the Master programmer of these myriad genetic and bio-mechanical systems we have and are, the originator of that intangible and unknown consciousness/spirit within. And I would compare degenerate practices to a virus upon our society. We do not heal a virus by funding and encouraging it, we have to recognize the correct way the system should function and rewrite the code.
Which analogously would be repentance of abusive lusts and violence, and a return in humility to holiness, purity, and goodness.
What should two same sex who are consenting do if they desire each other?
They should recognize that not every desire or thought we have merits or justifies expression. Many thoughts that come can be depraved and violent, it is our choice whether to act upon them, perpetuate them, or reject them as not right and harmful.
We were not designed by God or nature to conduct ourselves sexually with the same gender. The acts which ensue from such desires are counter to what is natural, holy, and respectful in our own better judgment and conscience.
The argument is usually put forth, if you are not harming anyone its OK, but the reality is a great deal of harm is occurring under the surface and is not recognized.
Not only on a Spiritual level for those who believe, but also on a social cultural level. Family breakdown, promiscuity, thoughts, lifestyles spread throughout society like wildfire, and in a liberal society that loses all sense of balance and proportion, an "anything goes alternative lifestyle" becomes normal.
As soon as you devalue sex and marriage, remove God from the equation, then anything goes, and the "alternative community" is at the forefront of this social motion, it has intertwined with heterosexuals also and now the programming system of order "marriage" has been essentially broken as all respect has gone.
The purpose of marriage is the covenant commitment and bond between the male and the female to further life, creation and human beings. We are designed biologically for that function and it is essential that we respect our design. Respect is a central part of love, if we do not respect our design, and seek to violate it, in order to fulfill base lusts then it is not love. We are to love our fellow man, and woman are to love their fellow sisters, but as soon as lust arises in these cases, all respect and love is gone. It becomes purely a love for the flesh and not a love for the soul, personality and being. Why? Because if there was LOVE between the same sex, they would respect each-others natural design and order and not want to violate and sodomize each-other, regardless of the willingness of the person.
Trying to dress up sodomy relationships as legitimate and right by honoring them with the term "marriage" is very misguided and shameful.
I might have know that the bitten apple logo was an atheistic reference to the tree of knowledge and satan.
I won't be buying another apple product again. I wish that you wake up to holiness and Spirituality and what is right and true. The earthly physical life is but a blip, what matters is the destiny of our eternal Soul and Spirit, and that choice is in our own hands. We need to repent, humble ourselves, turn from our degenerate ways and sincerely walk in a new light of goodness, holiness and love.
I no longer am happy to be associated with Apple and I would encourage anyone else with decency to take a stand against Apples active support of "gay marriage" and boycott any further product purchases.
``He hates these cans!''
For an old feller you don't know much about your history.
The same religious zealotry that drives the anti-gay agenda was *exactly* what allowed Hitler to do his thing. Hitler got a free pass from Pius XII. There was a massive cultural tolerance for prejudice and discrimination. The brownshirts could act because no one wanted to stand up and openly support gays and gypsies and jews.
Would you have stood up to defend the gays. Would Goldenlight?
If you read some of these tragic posts on this thread, it is clear the same old prejudices exist. They have not gone away. Read them again, you can see how the pious and the bullies are still the best of bedfellows.
But thankfully, times have changed. And now some of us are prepared to stand-up and speak our mind. Free speech. Doncha just love it?
C.
(keeping religious nutters in check since 2004)
Hitler got a free pass from YOUR countryman, Neville Chamberlain. The politics of your country could have prevented WWII, but, as with most liberal policies, they didn't.
You still have no standing in this thread, as you don't live here, and I'm glad, we have enough liberals. You can't vote on this issue, nobody cares WTF you think about it, because your not a US citizen. What you think doesn't mean squat in this country.
Hitler got a free pass from YOUR countryman, Neville Chamberlain. The politics of your country could have prevented WWII, but, as with most liberal policies, they didn't.
You still have no standing in this thread, as you don't live here, and I'm glad, we have enough liberals. You can't vote on this issue, nobody cares WTF you think about it, because your not a US citizen. What you think doesn't mean squat in this country.
Let me get this right... According to you...
Chamberlain *should* have intervened sooner in another country.
But no outsider has a right to stick their nose into California's internal business.
I find it impressive that you have made two consecutive statements that contradict one another so completely! Well done.
Dude, I think I hear what you are saying. How dare some liberal British guy to try to influence the lives of Californians. How very dare they? What's it to them?
And that's the point. The god camp want to mess with the private lives of law-abiding, tax paying citizens. They want to take away a right that other tax payers have.
It's just wrong. How dare they?
C.
If it makes you happy, please call me a liberal again. Freedom is not a dirty word in these parts.
Hitler got a free pass from YOUR countryman, Neville Longbottom.
Hitler got a free pass from YOUR countryman, Neville Chamberlain. The politics of your country could have prevented WWII, but, as with most liberal policies, they didn't.
You still have no standing in this thread, as you don't live here, and I'm glad, we have enough liberals. You can't vote on this issue, nobody cares WTF you think about it, because your not a US citizen. What you think doesn't mean squat in this country.
He got a free pass here too, right up to around 1940 - try and read some history (without moving your lips).
You see, that's not enough. It's separate but equal. Don't you understand the feeling you get from recognition? Sure, you can call it what you want, but without recognition of that title, it means much, much less.
Sorry if I was being ambiguous. I want a clean split between civil union the legal institution, and marriage the religious/social institution. And not just for gays, so I'm not discriminating here.
Recognition comes from individuals. Words on a paper are not recognition.
He got a free pass here too, right up to around 1940 - try and read some history (without moving your lips).
Get a clue, Chamberlain was an appeaser. He signed the Munich Agreement, the US was not party to signing that death warrant for Czechoslovakia. Maybe YOU should study history.
Get a clue, Chamberlain was an appeaser. He signed the Munich Agreement, the US was not party to signing that death warrant for Czechoslovakia. Maybe YOU should study history.
this has to do with intolerance toward homosexuals how?
this has to do with intolerance toward homosexuals how?
If you can't follow the conversation, then don't reply to it.
Get a clue, Chamberlain was an appeaser. He signed the Munich Agreement, the US was not party to signing that death warrant for Czechoslovakia. Maybe YOU should study history.
I have, extensively. Chamberlain was indeed an appeaser, but he did it mainly because Britain was in no state to fight a war in 1936; and there were many economic and political reasons for this. And even before the Munich Agreement, Chamberlain got the country preparing for war, so he knew exactly what was coming. They don't teach this before 3rd grade (where you evidently completed your education), so you may have missed the memo. There is usually more to history that the first line in your text book...
I'll give you 10 mins to scramble some reply from Wikipedia... can you read that without moving your lips?
I have, extensively. Chamberlain was indeed an appeaser, but he did it mainly because Britain was in no state to fight a war in 1936; and there were many economic and political reasons for this. And even before the Munich Agreement, Chamberlain got the country preparing for war, so he knew exactly what was coming. They don't teach this before 3rd grade (where you evidently completed your education), so you may have missed the memo. There is usually more to history that the first line in your text book...
I'll give you 10 mins to scramble some reply from Wikipedia... can you read that without moving your lips?
Yes, yes, I think they are ready to take the final History 101 quiz now.
Yes, yes, I think they are ready to take the final History 101 quiz now.
...closed book?
"In your opinion, nobody but you has the right to an opinion."
Errrrrm I didn't say that.
And thanks, I have every intention of staying in Scotland. We at least have a semblance of understanding and equality. It's hard being superior, but we somehow manage.
Oh, and I don't need to justify my "queer behaviour" to anyone. It's the way I am, and I don't owe anybody an explanation for that.
Jocks being superior..now thats a laugh!
It's called "lesbians"
C.
I had no idea that Lesbians choose to not engage in oral and/or anal sexual intercourse? Hell, I don't know of any Heterosexual couples who don't engage at least in Oral Sex, which is part of the definition of Sodomy.
What a dull existence if we chose to turn something so divine as this into such a sterile procedure.