Kool-aid drinkers are neither happy nor sad, they just drink and drink, and drink. Emotions hardly ever come into it. No time. Drinking and following the party like are all that matter.
There are far more mobile devices then desktop or laptops. Most of them don't happen to be smartphones right now, but it's moving in that direction.
The desktop/laptop market is over. Apple will always be a niche player there. However, the portable device market is still wide open. That's where the real future is.
And since the iPhone runs OSX, whatever Apple does for the iPhone can potentially come back for the Mac too.
So I dunno where this hostility (not necessarily from you teckstud, but from others in this forum and elsewhere) is for Apple doing devices other then the "Mac". They need to move beyond just desktops and laptops if they are going to remain viable for the long term.
Everyone can craft their own definition for what THEY want from a smartphone. If they wish to come up with a definition that leads them away from an iPhone, that's fair enough. But that personal definition won't extend to everyone.
My definition would be simpler: a phone that is capable of running software, using both text and GUI input. (In other words, a numeric pad alone is not enough.) I wouldn't even demand Internet access, any more than I would include that in the definition of a personal computer. However, Internet access is one of the things that makes a good and useful smartphone as opposed to a poor one.
There are far more mobile devices then desktop or laptops. Most of them don't happen to be smartphones right now, but it's moving in that direction.
The desktop/laptop market is over. Apple will always be a niche player there. However, the portable device market is still wide open. That's where the real future is.
And since the iPhone runs OSX, whatever Apple does for the iPhone can potentially come back for the Mac too.
So I dunno where this hostility (not necessarily from you teckstud, but from others in this forum and elsewhere) is for Apple doing devices other then the "Mac". They need to move beyond just desktops and laptops if they are going to remain viable for the long term.
All of your points are valid and right on the mark. I think the hostility is not directed at Apple so much as it is the Apple fanclub, or Appleistas, or Apple Nazi's to name a few. Apple is a great company that makes great products. Nothing wrong here. The problem comes in when you have stupid comments like: "Apple rulz, all other suck", or "Apple will take over the world", or "the iPhone is the best in the world and your phone sucks", and so on. Apple is a company like Microsoft. Apple's aim it to get you to pay as much as bearable while offering as little as possible to keep you happy. Apple is not in biz to be your friend. Similarly, it can be said that the iPhone is not much more than an iPod that can make calls. While I tend to agree with this, there are others that truely believe the iPhone is the "Jesus Phone" and all other companies should simply go out of biz. The truth is most likely somewhere in the middle. The iPhone does many, many things well, will also failing miserably at many other things. The middle again. Personally, I have an iPhone 3G and had the original. They provided decent functionality but in the issues that were/are critical to me, the iPhone fails miserably. However, I found a solution that works. I keep my iPhone as a converted iPhone to iPod (removed the sim) and have a Nokia for my telephone needs.
Well I live in the US. I have had Sprint, Verizon, and Nextel the last 9 years. I have had well over 60 different cell phones personally and am generally considered a cell phone expert by people who know me. I can and have disassembled thousands of cell phones. From 2001-2003 I ran a service where people sent me their cell phones and I modded them, which made me about $20,000 a year in my spare time,
I have never had GSM service (ATT/Tmobile) cause frankly the call quality is horrible and the data network is worse than a 3rd world countries network.
While I have never had ATT/Tmobile, obviously I have known people who have and out of all of them, and out of all random people I have observed on the street, I have not seen a Nokia phone with my own eyes in the last 5 years.
Nokia has a very small to non-existent footprint in the US, and to be honest, they really could abandon the US and still be profitable. This is evident by the fact that they really do not try to compete. Operators could also be playing a small part in this.
The doom sayers predicting Nokia's demise (on this site mostly) should get in line with the others that predictec the same thing or think back to the time when L.M. Ericsson almost bought Nokia back in the very beginning. Last time I looked Nokia is still the most dominant force in mobile phones. They will improvise, adapt, and over come. This is what they do best.
I'm mostly in agreement with your posts, but I'm fairly convinced of Nokia's slow demise. Unless they back Android in a big way I think they will slip off the radar sharpish.
Never going to happen. The demise of Nokia has been predicted for years, even up to the point where L.M. Ericsson almost bought them.
Nokia sells more phones in a day than Apple sells in a month, and when they release their new TS phones, they will be hitting their stride. One thing most of the zealots here forget is that not everyone wants and iPhone.
They do power all of the Nokia's smartphones though.
I don't see Nokia going away any time soon.
I know that they've never been fashionable in Silicon Valley but the rest of the world still loves them. They still have a stranglehold on emerging markets like India. They're not going away any time soon even if most Americans don't have visibility of their global impact.
Never going to happen. The demise of Nokia has been predicted for years, even up to the point where L.M. Ericsson almost bought them.
Nokia sells more phones in a day than Apple sells in a month, and when they release their new TS phones, they will be hitting their stride. One thing most of the zealots here forget is that not everyone wants and iPhone.
First off I'm not a zealot, I'm a rationalist. The two do not compute together in a sane mind.
And with Nokia, it's already losing market share (on cue as predicted ), but more importantly it's losing influential power, at best it will become the Dell of mobile devices (if its lucky, makes the right decisions, and quick).
To clarify: When I say demise, I do not mean its eventual complete 'call the liquidators' death, I mean a Dellish death, reduced to a meaningless box shifter with significant market share loss from a once high, but high enough for the likes of people on here to always say "but look how many devices they ship" without really grasping the larger picture..
And I'm not saying "everyone wants an iPhone" what I'm saying is "not everyone wants a nokia" . I have been saying for years that as soon as smart phones take off Nokia will go into rapid decline, as they simply do not have the software know how to compete.
When a survey shows that Samsung has nearly the same score as RIM, you know it doesn't really mean much in terms business use. The survey simply indicates that iPhone owners are on average more satisfied with their device, nothing more, nothing less.
As I posted elsewhere, I?m sure if you do a similar survey about computer operating systems in businesses, Apple will probably come out on top in terms of satisfaction as well. But does that mean the Mac OS X is a better business OS than Windows or Linux? ABSOLUTELY NOT, of course. It only means that users of that market where the OS X is suitable are very satisfied; and that users of the big majority of businesses where Windows is most suitable are less satisfied. It DOES NOT mean that OS X would be equally suitable for those businesses where Windows is used.
And regarding that comment about the "Dellish death", Dell is far from falling into the realms of insignificance. Last I checked, they are still #2 worlwide (yes, lots of people outside the US use computers too). They are still very profitable. They are still dominant in the corporate market. The only thing not going for them is their stock is "out of flavor". But that is bound to happen as you become a larger company and astronomical growth is no longer possible.
I think the hostility is not directed at Apple so much as it is the Apple fanclub, or Appleistas, or Apple Nazi's to name a few.
Why don't you keep all your "kool-aid" vocabulary for a thread where it is relevant. Because this is not it. The reaction you are seeing here is to a newbie hijacking the thread (with his first ever post!) by just being a bit of a twerp!
"iPhone is not a smart phone" So bloody what. There is no agreed definition of "smart'. However every stat that I have seen (Gartner, IDC, NPR, Canalys) puts iPhone in that bracket.
"Never seen a Nokia in 5 years" Guess what? There is a little place called 'The rest of the World'. Even if Deuces has never been there.... he must have heard about it?
There are a lot of people on these boards who have been here a long time. A well thought out reasoned discussion, even an argument is always welcome. Let's have a little bit more of that.
And regarding that comment about the "Dellish death", Dell is far from falling into the realms of insignificance. Last I checked, they are still #2 worlwide (yes, lots of people outside the US use computers too). They are still very profitable.
#2 yet not as profitable as Apple with a meagre 10% (US).
Thats the problem with using the number of shipped devices to compare companies.
Yay they are number 2!.... but in reality who cares, they may as well sell biscuits.
You have to sell an awful lot of rubber dinghy's to buy a bigger pool than the next door neighbor who sells ocean liners.
Though I must admit my use of Dell as an analogy wasn't great.
I thought Dell racks up more profit in computer sales than Apple.
How much net income did Apple get from their computers? If we are to compare oranges to oranges, we have compare computer sales.
Apple should be measured as the complete package, for it's because Nokia & Dell FAIL to have the compete package (though nokia has tried) that it will/has dwindle(d).
While I don't really care for market share statistics, it is good to see Apple make it this far in a market where just about every one said they wouldn't succeed and with a product that sits high above all the others in customer satisfaction.
It's also interesting to watch Microsoft slip more and more into irrelevance in this market. Can't say they don't deserve it after Steve Ballmer flapping his big mouth, which he continues to do.
Apple should be measured as the complete package, for it's because Nokia & Dell FAIL to have the compete package (though nokia has tried) that it will/has dwindle(d).
Dell and Nokia don't have a presence in the portable media player market, whereas Apple derives a significant chunk of their profit from iPod sales.
To make a fair comparison, you need to compare numbers for competing products. Lumping everything together and then claim Dell and Nokia are failing just on the basis of them being less profitable overall in ridiculous.
Dell is more profitable in computer sales than Apple and Nokia is more profitable in mobile phone sales than Apple. They are hardly failing in my book.
When a survey shows that Samsung has nearly the same score as RIM, you know it doesn't really mean much in terms business use. The survey simply indicates that iPhone owners are on average more satisfied with their device, nothing more, nothing less.
As I posted elsewhere, I’m sure if you do a similar survey about computer operating systems in businesses, Apple will probably come out on top in terms of satisfaction as well. But does that mean the Mac OS X is a better business OS than Windows or Linux? ABSOLUTELY NOT, of course. It only means that users of that market where the OS X is suitable are very satisfied; and that users of the big majority of businesses where Windows is most suitable are less satisfied. It DOES NOT mean that OS X would be equally suitable for those businesses where Windows is used.
And regarding that comment about the "Dellish death", Dell is far from falling into the realms of insignificance. Last I checked, they are still #2 worlwide (yes, lots of people outside the US use computers too). They are still very profitable. They are still dominant in the corporate market. The only thing not going for them is their stock is "out of flavor". But that is bound to happen as you become a larger company and astronomical growth is no longer possible.
Who gives a damn how well of a business device it is if users are not satisfied with the product or don't companies want people to be satisified with their products? You must be one of those dudes who thinks what makes products are specs and features and not how much a user actually enjoys using the product.
You mean the same Dell who are now asking their employees to take unpaid leave off.
Comments
Only a matter of time... Apple, Inc. will be renamed, "iPhone, Inc."
and you're actually happy with that?
and you're actually happy with that?
Kool-aid drinkers are neither happy nor sad, they just drink and drink, and drink. Emotions hardly ever come into it. No time. Drinking and following the party like are all that matter.
and you're actually happy with that?
Sure, why not?
There are far more mobile devices then desktop or laptops. Most of them don't happen to be smartphones right now, but it's moving in that direction.
The desktop/laptop market is over. Apple will always be a niche player there. However, the portable device market is still wide open. That's where the real future is.
And since the iPhone runs OSX, whatever Apple does for the iPhone can potentially come back for the Mac too.
So I dunno where this hostility (not necessarily from you teckstud, but from others in this forum and elsewhere) is for Apple doing devices other then the "Mac". They need to move beyond just desktops and laptops if they are going to remain viable for the long term.
Everyone can craft their own definition for what THEY want from a smartphone. If they wish to come up with a definition that leads them away from an iPhone, that's fair enough. But that personal definition won't extend to everyone.
My definition would be simpler: a phone that is capable of running software, using both text and GUI input. (In other words, a numeric pad alone is not enough.) I wouldn't even demand Internet access, any more than I would include that in the definition of a personal computer. However, Internet access is one of the things that makes a good and useful smartphone as opposed to a poor one.
Start your own Wiki page.
Sure, why not?
There are far more mobile devices then desktop or laptops. Most of them don't happen to be smartphones right now, but it's moving in that direction.
The desktop/laptop market is over. Apple will always be a niche player there. However, the portable device market is still wide open. That's where the real future is.
And since the iPhone runs OSX, whatever Apple does for the iPhone can potentially come back for the Mac too.
So I dunno where this hostility (not necessarily from you teckstud, but from others in this forum and elsewhere) is for Apple doing devices other then the "Mac". They need to move beyond just desktops and laptops if they are going to remain viable for the long term.
All of your points are valid and right on the mark. I think the hostility is not directed at Apple so much as it is the Apple fanclub, or Appleistas, or Apple Nazi's to name a few. Apple is a great company that makes great products. Nothing wrong here. The problem comes in when you have stupid comments like: "Apple rulz, all other suck", or "Apple will take over the world", or "the iPhone is the best in the world and your phone sucks", and so on. Apple is a company like Microsoft. Apple's aim it to get you to pay as much as bearable while offering as little as possible to keep you happy. Apple is not in biz to be your friend. Similarly, it can be said that the iPhone is not much more than an iPod that can make calls. While I tend to agree with this, there are others that truely believe the iPhone is the "Jesus Phone" and all other companies should simply go out of biz. The truth is most likely somewhere in the middle. The iPhone does many, many things well, will also failing miserably at many other things. The middle again. Personally, I have an iPhone 3G and had the original. They provided decent functionality but in the issues that were/are critical to me, the iPhone fails miserably. However, I found a solution that works. I keep my iPhone as a converted iPhone to iPod (removed the sim) and have a Nokia for my telephone needs.
Well I live in the US. I have had Sprint, Verizon, and Nextel the last 9 years. I have had well over 60 different cell phones personally and am generally considered a cell phone expert by people who know me. I can and have disassembled thousands of cell phones. From 2001-2003 I ran a service where people sent me their cell phones and I modded them, which made me about $20,000 a year in my spare time,
I have never had GSM service (ATT/Tmobile) cause frankly the call quality is horrible and the data network is worse than a 3rd world countries network.
While I have never had ATT/Tmobile, obviously I have known people who have and out of all of them, and out of all random people I have observed on the street, I have not seen a Nokia phone with my own eyes in the last 5 years.
Nokia has a very small to non-existent footprint in the US, and to be honest, they really could abandon the US and still be profitable. This is evident by the fact that they really do not try to compete. Operators could also be playing a small part in this.
The doom sayers predicting Nokia's demise (on this site mostly) should get in line with the others that predictec the same thing or think back to the time when L.M. Ericsson almost bought Nokia back in the very beginning. Last time I looked Nokia is still the most dominant force in mobile phones. They will improvise, adapt, and over come. This is what they do best.
The bluetooth support (37%) is hilarious to me.
This being the phone that only connects to Apple's headset?
Isn't that funny. Bluetooth support. I almost passed out from laughing so hard.
By the way, you can connect any headphone (BT) to it.
I'm mostly in agreement with your posts, but I'm fairly convinced of Nokia's slow demise. Unless they back Android in a big way I think they will slip off the radar sharpish.
Never going to happen. The demise of Nokia has been predicted for years, even up to the point where L.M. Ericsson almost bought them.
Nokia sells more phones in a day than Apple sells in a month, and when they release their new TS phones, they will be hitting their stride. One thing most of the zealots here forget is that not everyone wants and iPhone.
2. I haven't seen a single person with a Nokia in the last 5 years
I just talked my employer into replacing my old crappy Nokia with an iPhone and the difference is amazing. I could never go back.
Umm, Symbian does not power all of Nokias phones
They do power all of the Nokia's smartphones though.
I don't see Nokia going away any time soon.
I know that they've never been fashionable in Silicon Valley but the rest of the world still loves them. They still have a stranglehold on emerging markets like India. They're not going away any time soon even if most Americans don't have visibility of their global impact.
Never going to happen. The demise of Nokia has been predicted for years, even up to the point where L.M. Ericsson almost bought them.
Nokia sells more phones in a day than Apple sells in a month, and when they release their new TS phones, they will be hitting their stride. One thing most of the zealots here forget is that not everyone wants and iPhone.
First off I'm not a zealot, I'm a rationalist. The two do not compute together in a sane mind.
And with Nokia, it's already losing market share (on cue as predicted ), but more importantly it's losing influential power, at best it will become the Dell of mobile devices (if its lucky, makes the right decisions, and quick).
To clarify: When I say demise, I do not mean its eventual complete 'call the liquidators' death, I mean a Dellish death, reduced to a meaningless box shifter with significant market share loss from a once high, but high enough for the likes of people on here to always say "but look how many devices they ship" without really grasping the larger picture..
And I'm not saying "everyone wants an iPhone" what I'm saying is "not everyone wants a nokia" . I have been saying for years that as soon as smart phones take off Nokia will go into rapid decline, as they simply do not have the software know how to compete.
How about......
Have a 'real' keyboard
Fm radio
Play subscription music
Smell (a little bit) like peanut butter
Run Mojave OS
Have a 360 page manual
Make me feel important
Not be an iPhone
Just out the back of my ass(will think of more)
As I posted elsewhere, I?m sure if you do a similar survey about computer operating systems in businesses, Apple will probably come out on top in terms of satisfaction as well. But does that mean the Mac OS X is a better business OS than Windows or Linux? ABSOLUTELY NOT, of course. It only means that users of that market where the OS X is suitable are very satisfied; and that users of the big majority of businesses where Windows is most suitable are less satisfied. It DOES NOT mean that OS X would be equally suitable for those businesses where Windows is used.
And regarding that comment about the "Dellish death", Dell is far from falling into the realms of insignificance. Last I checked, they are still #2 worlwide (yes, lots of people outside the US use computers too). They are still very profitable. They are still dominant in the corporate market. The only thing not going for them is their stock is "out of flavor". But that is bound to happen as you become a larger company and astronomical growth is no longer possible.
I think the hostility is not directed at Apple so much as it is the Apple fanclub, or Appleistas, or Apple Nazi's to name a few.
Why don't you keep all your "kool-aid" vocabulary for a thread where it is relevant. Because this is not it. The reaction you are seeing here is to a newbie hijacking the thread (with his first ever post!) by just being a bit of a twerp!
"iPhone is not a smart phone" So bloody what. There is no agreed definition of "smart'. However every stat that I have seen (Gartner, IDC, NPR, Canalys) puts iPhone in that bracket.
"Never seen a Nokia in 5 years" Guess what? There is a little place called 'The rest of the World'. Even if Deuces has never been there.... he must have heard about it?
There are a lot of people on these boards who have been here a long time. A well thought out reasoned discussion, even an argument is always welcome. Let's have a little bit more of that.
And regarding that comment about the "Dellish death", Dell is far from falling into the realms of insignificance. Last I checked, they are still #2 worlwide (yes, lots of people outside the US use computers too). They are still very profitable.
#2 yet not as profitable as Apple with a meagre 10% (US).
Thats the problem with using the number of shipped devices to compare companies.
Yay they are number 2!.... but in reality who cares, they may as well sell biscuits.
You have to sell an awful lot of rubber dinghy's to buy a bigger pool than the next door neighbor who sells ocean liners.
Though I must admit my use of Dell as an analogy wasn't great.
#2 yet not as profitable as Apple with a meagre 10% (US).
Thats the problem with using the number of shipped devices to compare companies.
Yay they are number 2!.... but in reality who cares, they may as well sell biscuits.
Though I must admit my use of Dell as an analogy wasn't great.
I thought Dell racks up more profit in computer sales than Apple.
How much net income did Apple get from their computers? If we are to compare oranges to oranges, we have compare computer sales.
I thought Dell racks up more profit in computer sales than Apple.
How much net income did Apple get from their computers? If we are to compare oranges to oranges, we have compare computer sales.
Apple should be measured as the complete package, for it's because Nokia & Dell FAIL to have the compete package (though nokia has tried) that it will/has dwindle(d).
It's also interesting to watch Microsoft slip more and more into irrelevance in this market. Can't say they don't deserve it after Steve Ballmer flapping his big mouth, which he continues to do.
Apple should be measured as the complete package, for it's because Nokia & Dell FAIL to have the compete package (though nokia has tried) that it will/has dwindle(d).
Dell and Nokia don't have a presence in the portable media player market, whereas Apple derives a significant chunk of their profit from iPod sales.
To make a fair comparison, you need to compare numbers for competing products. Lumping everything together and then claim Dell and Nokia are failing just on the basis of them being less profitable overall in ridiculous.
Dell is more profitable in computer sales than Apple and Nokia is more profitable in mobile phone sales than Apple. They are hardly failing in my book.
When a survey shows that Samsung has nearly the same score as RIM, you know it doesn't really mean much in terms business use. The survey simply indicates that iPhone owners are on average more satisfied with their device, nothing more, nothing less.
As I posted elsewhere, I’m sure if you do a similar survey about computer operating systems in businesses, Apple will probably come out on top in terms of satisfaction as well. But does that mean the Mac OS X is a better business OS than Windows or Linux? ABSOLUTELY NOT, of course. It only means that users of that market where the OS X is suitable are very satisfied; and that users of the big majority of businesses where Windows is most suitable are less satisfied. It DOES NOT mean that OS X would be equally suitable for those businesses where Windows is used.
And regarding that comment about the "Dellish death", Dell is far from falling into the realms of insignificance. Last I checked, they are still #2 worlwide (yes, lots of people outside the US use computers too). They are still very profitable. They are still dominant in the corporate market. The only thing not going for them is their stock is "out of flavor". But that is bound to happen as you become a larger company and astronomical growth is no longer possible.
Who gives a damn how well of a business device it is if users are not satisfied with the product or don't companies want people to be satisified with their products? You must be one of those dudes who thinks what makes products are specs and features and not how much a user actually enjoys using the product.
You mean the same Dell who are now asking their employees to take unpaid leave off.