Dell and Nokia don't have a presence in the portable media player market, whereas Apple derives a significant chunk of their profit from iPod sales.
To make a fair comparison, you need to compare numbers for competing products. Lumping everything together and then claim Dell and Nokia are failing just on the basis of them being less profitable overall in ridiculous.
Dell is more profitable in computer sales than Apple and Nokia is more profitable in mobile phone sales than Apple. They are hardly failing in my book.
Dell and Nokia don't have a presence in the portable media player market, whereas Apple derives a significant chunk of their profit from iPod sales.
To make a fair comparison, you need to compare numbers for competing products. Lumping everything together and then claim Dell and Nokia are failing just on the basis of them being less profitable overall in ridiculous.
Dell is more profitable in computer sales than Apple and Nokia is more profitable in mobile phone sales than Apple. They are hardly failing in my book.
This guy is an idiot or is trolling as his comment is not fact based...
Dell Sales=64.15 Bil
Income=2.85 Bil
Apple Sales=32.48 Bil
Income=4.83 Bil (Mac share=2.25 Bil)
Now if you factor in that Apple's Mac unit accounts for 46% of their sales then the real number would be about 2.25 Bil give or take.
However Dell sells many other things than just computers aswell so to compare "oranges to oranges" as you claim than their income I'm sure comes down or Apple's goes up either way.
The fact that was being made was Dell may sell 10x or 20x as many computers but the fact also remains that they are less profitable than Apple. Also their numbers are not growing in the same league as Apple.
This guy is an idiot or is trolling as his comment is not fact based...
Dell Sales=64.15 Bil
Income=2.85 Bil
Apple Sales=32.48 Bil
Income=4.83 Bil (Mac share=2.25 Bil)
Now if you factor in that Apple's Mac unit accounts for 46% of their sales then the real number would be about 2.25 Bil give or take.
However Dell sells many other things than just computers aswell so to compare "oranges to oranges" as you claim than their income I'm sure comes down or Apple's goes up either way.
The fact that was being made was Dell may sell 10x or 20x as many computers but the fact also remains that they are less profitable than Apple. Also their numbers are not growing in the same league as Apple.
You seemed to have missed the Nokia part. It would be a safe bet that Nokia sells more phones in a month than Apple sells in a year. So which company is doing better biz wise?
You seemed to have missed the Nokia part. It would be a safe bet that Nokia sells more phones in a month than Apple sells in a year. So which company is doing better biz wise?
First off, I didn't miss that and I never argued that second of all. I was commenting on the Dell comment and I realize I should have made that clear. Also if you would like me to say which company is doing better "biz wise" then I would say Apple, in the long run anyway.
If you look at the deferred revenue from the iPhone and the income from that annually and the fact that Nokia has been in the cell phone business for how long to Apple's 18 months or so... It's almost the same example of Dell's income. Apple's volume is tremendously lower but the income is not far off. Not to mention Apple's room to grow is much more vast then Nokia's.
As a business owner myself I would take greater profit than volume any day but that's me...
Often labeled the outsider in the corporate world, Apple's iPhone has already reached the top of J.D. Power's satisfaction ranks for business smartphones -- and is simultaneously the second-largest smartphone maker in the world.
Can someone please tell me cos it's niggling me... If Apple is the second-largest, who is the largest?
First off, I didn't miss that and I never argued that second of all. I was commenting on the Dell comment and I realize I should have made that clear. Also if you would like me to say which company is doing better "biz wise" then I would say Apple, in the long run anyway.
If you look at the deferred revenue from the iPhone and the income from that annually and the fact that Nokia has been in the cell phone business for how long to Apple's 18 months or so... It's almost the same example of Dell's income. Apple's volume is tremendously lower but the income is not far off. Not to mention Apple's room to grow is much more vast then Nokia's.
As a business owner myself I would take greater profit than volume any day but that's me...
Grow in what way. You act as is Nokia employees simply come to work everyday and wait to go home. That is the most ridiculous statement I have heard on this forum to date and believe me there have been plenty. Nokia will continue to do what their core biz is: make phones and cellular network infrastructure, and with that, they will continue GROW...... Apple sells one phone, and does this pretty well.
The one thing that the rest of the Appleistas here fail to realize is that Nokia is not going away. EVER. They will still sell their phones and still be the #1 seller in the biz. Apple will continue to be #2. This can be attributed simply to the fact that not everyone wants an iPhone. There are for sure more people that want Nokia's than those that an iPhone. Not to mention those that have had iPhones and went back to their brand (also people leaving their brand for the IPhone so this is probably zero sum gain.). Then you have those like me who are hybrids. I recognize the failings of the iPhone but still have one as well as a Nokia to fill in most of the gaps the iPhone leaves open.
The one thing that the rest of the Appleistas here fail to realize is that Nokia is not going away. EVER. They will still sell their phones and still be the #1 seller in the biz. Apple will continue to be #2. .
Again it all depends on what you mean by being No.1.
If you mean by profit, Apple will surpass them and then some.
If you mean by sheer number of phones sold, well thats a tough one to call, but I would not be surprised if Apple surpassed them on that front either.
I'm not a gambler (except with shares, but thats not gambling, it's merely deciphering the inevitable ) but I"m willing to put a sportsman's bet on Apple coming true on either of the above (or both) within 1 to 3 years.
Forgive me for being presumptuous but you sound like a european who has a patriotic association with Nokia, Nokia culture is as bad for it's 'blind faith' as Apple, many are proud of their pioneering work within the mobile tech industry, and the thought of a US company walking in and stealing the thunder at the last moment is infuriating , yet inevitable I'm afraid.
Again it all depends on what you mean by being No.1.
If you mean by profit, Apple will surpass them and then some.
If you mean by sheer number of phones sold, well thats a tough one to call, but I would not be surprised if Apple surpassed them on that front either.
I'm not a gambler (except with shares, but thats not gambling, it's merely deciphering the inevitable ) but I"m willing to put a sportsman's bet on Apple coming true on either of the above (or both) within 1 to 3 years.
Forgive me for being presumptuous but you sound like a european who has a patriotic association with Nokia, Nokia culture is as bad for it's 'blind faith' as Apple, many are proud of their pioneering work within the mobile tech industry, and the thought of a US company walking in and stealing the thunder at the last moment is infuriating , yet inevitable I'm afraid.
Wrong on the second part. I am an American that works for an American company that is lucky enough to live and work around the world which gives me insight into many different cultures and prospectives. I do know the Nokia story how they went from nothing and I mean literally nothing and came out on top. So much so, L.M. Ericsson almost bought them. The assumption this forum that many, many make is that Nokia will simply stop competing because the iPhone is just that great. Well it isn't. I have one and its flaws are glaring. Nokia's have flaws as well, but the difference is, I have the common sense to see both sides. Apple will sell a boat load of phones will Nokia will sell a ship load. Apple will not surpass Nokia any time soon. Nokia sells more phones in a month than Apple in six. It ain't gonna happen that Apple will surpass Nokia any time soon. Nor will Nokia drive Apple back into the dark times. I see that there is plenty of market available for everyone to exist while many here are so swollen by drinking Jobs' kool-aid that they can't see their toes. So in my opinion, your entire post is wrong, and by all means you are forgiven as long as you are a Liverpool fan.
Wrong on the second part. I am an American that works for an American company that is lucky enough to live and work around the world which gives me insight into many different cultures and prospectives. I do know the Nokia story how they went from nothing and I mean literally nothing and came out on top. So much so, L.M. Ericsson almost bought them. The assumption this forum that many, many make is that Nokia will simply stop competing because the iPhone is just that great. Well it isn't. I have one and its flaws are glaring. Nokia's have flaws as well, but the difference is, I have the common sense to see both sides. Apple will sell a boat load of phones will Nokia will sell a ship load. Apple will not surpass Nokia any time soon. Nokia sells more phones in a month than Apple in six. It ain't gonna happen that Apple will surpass Nokia any time soon. Nor will Nokia drive Apple back into the dark times. I see that there is plenty of market available for everyone to exist while many here are so swollen by drinking Jobs' kool-aid that they can't see their toes. So in my opinion, your entire post is wrong, and by all means you are forgiven as long as you are a Liverpool fan.
I'm too modest to explain why I'm right and your wrong. But I guarantee you will be joining my 'told you so' list.
I'm too modest to explain why I'm right and your wrong. But I guarantee you will be joining my 'told you so' list.
And no I hate football
HATE FOOTIE !!!!!!!! Says it ain't so.
We will have to agree to disagree. Nokia will still lead Apple and the world in terms of being the #1 mobile phone seller. Don't forget, they have not released their TS phone yet, but the reviews for it have been very positive and many, many people have been waiting for this over the iPhone. Considering it is unlocked, comes with all the music you can eat, has real VoIP (not just over wifi), and is a real telephone, I will bet you that Apple changes their game to keep up with Nokia sales. Right now, the N85 which was just released is selling quite well, if you can find one.
No my friend, Nokia is not going anywhere, and neither is Apple. They will both co-exist.
It seemed less polished than the iPhone, but for a first-generation product it was slicker and more usable than any Symbian or Windows Mobile device I have ever seen.
If I were Nokia, I'd dump Symbian and put all my chips on Android.
If I were Nokia, I'd dump Symbian and put all my chips on Android.
C.
And give control of the services layer to Google? That doesn't sound like a winning strategy from a Nokia perspective.
Handing over control of your software platform is great if you're an also-ran. It'll save you a lot of money in the short term and you don't need to build up any maturity in software development yourself. Motorola has probably chosen the right option (for once) but leaders like Nokia would be silly to do the same.
Handing over control of your software platform is great if you're an also-ran. It'll save you a lot of money in the short term and you don't need to build up any maturity in software development yourself. Motorola has probably chosen the right option (for once) but leaders like Nokia would be silly to do the same.
Both Windows Mobile and Symbian are old and outdated platforms. They are not well-liked by software developers. Progress seems to have slowed to a crawl. Apple and Google are moving so fast, Nokia looks like it is going backwards.
Nokia tying their fortune to Symbian is like a swimmer tying himself to an anchor.
Both Windows Mobile and Symbian are old and outdated platforms. They are not well-liked by software developers. Progress seems to have slowed to a crawl. Apple and Google are moving so fast, Nokia looks like it is going backwards.
Nokia tying their fortune to Symbian is like a swimmer tying himself to an anchor.
C.
Maybe you have heard of the words: Open Source. Symbian = Open Source.
Comments
Dell and Nokia don't have a presence in the portable media player market, whereas Apple derives a significant chunk of their profit from iPod sales.
To make a fair comparison, you need to compare numbers for competing products. Lumping everything together and then claim Dell and Nokia are failing just on the basis of them being less profitable overall in ridiculous.
Dell is more profitable in computer sales than Apple and Nokia is more profitable in mobile phone sales than Apple. They are hardly failing in my book.
Prove this.
Dell and Nokia don't have a presence in the portable media player market, whereas Apple derives a significant chunk of their profit from iPod sales.
To make a fair comparison, you need to compare numbers for competing products. Lumping everything together and then claim Dell and Nokia are failing just on the basis of them being less profitable overall in ridiculous.
Dell is more profitable in computer sales than Apple and Nokia is more profitable in mobile phone sales than Apple. They are hardly failing in my book.
This guy is an idiot or is trolling as his comment is not fact based...
Dell Sales=64.15 Bil
Income=2.85 Bil
Apple Sales=32.48 Bil
Income=4.83 Bil (Mac share=2.25 Bil)
Now if you factor in that Apple's Mac unit accounts for 46% of their sales then the real number would be about 2.25 Bil give or take.
However Dell sells many other things than just computers aswell so to compare "oranges to oranges" as you claim than their income I'm sure comes down or Apple's goes up either way.
The fact that was being made was Dell may sell 10x or 20x as many computers but the fact also remains that they are less profitable than Apple. Also their numbers are not growing in the same league as Apple.
1. Iphone is not a smartphone.
2. I haven't seen a single person with a Nokia in the last 5 years
3. You can't even spell deuces
(sorry couldn't resist)
1. Smartphone needs to off the top of my head (will think of more):
View and edit: Word and Excel.
View: PDF
Copy and paste
Transfer files back and forth with other devices through bluetooth
Be able to connect to other computing devices through bluetooth
Not sure which of these the iphone can and cannot do, I'll leave that up to someone else.
There is no industry spec for smartphone. If you can find a legitimate one then maybe you'll be able to prove a point.
This guy is an idiot or is trolling as his comment is not fact based...
Dell Sales=64.15 Bil
Income=2.85 Bil
Apple Sales=32.48 Bil
Income=4.83 Bil (Mac share=2.25 Bil)
Now if you factor in that Apple's Mac unit accounts for 46% of their sales then the real number would be about 2.25 Bil give or take.
However Dell sells many other things than just computers aswell so to compare "oranges to oranges" as you claim than their income I'm sure comes down or Apple's goes up either way.
The fact that was being made was Dell may sell 10x or 20x as many computers but the fact also remains that they are less profitable than Apple. Also their numbers are not growing in the same league as Apple.
You seemed to have missed the Nokia part. It would be a safe bet that Nokia sells more phones in a month than Apple sells in a year. So which company is doing better biz wise?
You seemed to have missed the Nokia part. It would be a safe bet that Nokia sells more phones in a month than Apple sells in a year. So which company is doing better biz wise?
First off, I didn't miss that and I never argued that second of all. I was commenting on the Dell comment and I realize I should have made that clear. Also if you would like me to say which company is doing better "biz wise" then I would say Apple, in the long run anyway.
If you look at the deferred revenue from the iPhone and the income from that annually and the fact that Nokia has been in the cell phone business for how long to Apple's 18 months or so... It's almost the same example of Dell's income. Apple's volume is tremendously lower but the income is not far off. Not to mention Apple's room to grow is much more vast then Nokia's.
As a business owner myself I would take greater profit than volume any day but that's me...
Often labeled the outsider in the corporate world, Apple's iPhone has already reached the top of J.D. Power's satisfaction ranks for business smartphones -- and is simultaneously the second-largest smartphone maker in the world.
Can someone please tell me cos it's niggling me... If Apple is the second-largest, who is the largest?
Can someone please tell me cos it's niggling me... If Apple is the second-largest, who is the largest?
Nokia.
Nokia.
Thanks
First off, I didn't miss that and I never argued that second of all. I was commenting on the Dell comment and I realize I should have made that clear. Also if you would like me to say which company is doing better "biz wise" then I would say Apple, in the long run anyway.
If you look at the deferred revenue from the iPhone and the income from that annually and the fact that Nokia has been in the cell phone business for how long to Apple's 18 months or so... It's almost the same example of Dell's income. Apple's volume is tremendously lower but the income is not far off. Not to mention Apple's room to grow is much more vast then Nokia's.
As a business owner myself I would take greater profit than volume any day but that's me...
Grow in what way. You act as is Nokia employees simply come to work everyday and wait to go home. That is the most ridiculous statement I have heard on this forum to date and believe me there have been plenty. Nokia will continue to do what their core biz is: make phones and cellular network infrastructure, and with that, they will continue GROW...... Apple sells one phone, and does this pretty well.
The one thing that the rest of the Appleistas here fail to realize is that Nokia is not going away. EVER. They will still sell their phones and still be the #1 seller in the biz. Apple will continue to be #2. This can be attributed simply to the fact that not everyone wants an iPhone. There are for sure more people that want Nokia's than those that an iPhone. Not to mention those that have had iPhones and went back to their brand (also people leaving their brand for the IPhone so this is probably zero sum gain.). Then you have those like me who are hybrids. I recognize the failings of the iPhone but still have one as well as a Nokia to fill in most of the gaps the iPhone leaves open.
The one thing that the rest of the Appleistas here fail to realize is that Nokia is not going away. EVER. They will still sell their phones and still be the #1 seller in the biz. Apple will continue to be #2. .
Again it all depends on what you mean by being No.1.
If you mean by profit, Apple will surpass them and then some.
If you mean by sheer number of phones sold, well thats a tough one to call, but I would not be surprised if Apple surpassed them on that front either.
I'm not a gambler (except with shares, but thats not gambling, it's merely deciphering the inevitable ) but I"m willing to put a sportsman's bet on Apple coming true on either of the above (or both) within 1 to 3 years.
Forgive me for being presumptuous but you sound like a european who has a patriotic association with Nokia, Nokia culture is as bad for it's 'blind faith' as Apple, many are proud of their pioneering work within the mobile tech industry, and the thought of a US company walking in and stealing the thunder at the last moment is infuriating , yet inevitable I'm afraid.
Again it all depends on what you mean by being No.1.
If you mean by profit, Apple will surpass them and then some.
If you mean by sheer number of phones sold, well thats a tough one to call, but I would not be surprised if Apple surpassed them on that front either.
I'm not a gambler (except with shares, but thats not gambling, it's merely deciphering the inevitable ) but I"m willing to put a sportsman's bet on Apple coming true on either of the above (or both) within 1 to 3 years.
Forgive me for being presumptuous but you sound like a european who has a patriotic association with Nokia, Nokia culture is as bad for it's 'blind faith' as Apple, many are proud of their pioneering work within the mobile tech industry, and the thought of a US company walking in and stealing the thunder at the last moment is infuriating , yet inevitable I'm afraid.
Wrong on the second part. I am an American that works for an American company that is lucky enough to live and work around the world which gives me insight into many different cultures and prospectives. I do know the Nokia story how they went from nothing and I mean literally nothing and came out on top. So much so, L.M. Ericsson almost bought them. The assumption this forum that many, many make is that Nokia will simply stop competing because the iPhone is just that great. Well it isn't. I have one and its flaws are glaring. Nokia's have flaws as well, but the difference is, I have the common sense to see both sides. Apple will sell a boat load of phones will Nokia will sell a ship load. Apple will not surpass Nokia any time soon. Nokia sells more phones in a month than Apple in six. It ain't gonna happen that Apple will surpass Nokia any time soon. Nor will Nokia drive Apple back into the dark times. I see that there is plenty of market available for everyone to exist while many here are so swollen by drinking Jobs' kool-aid that they can't see their toes. So in my opinion, your entire post is wrong, and by all means you are forgiven as long as you are a Liverpool fan.
Wrong on the second part. I am an American that works for an American company that is lucky enough to live and work around the world which gives me insight into many different cultures and prospectives. I do know the Nokia story how they went from nothing and I mean literally nothing and came out on top. So much so, L.M. Ericsson almost bought them. The assumption this forum that many, many make is that Nokia will simply stop competing because the iPhone is just that great. Well it isn't. I have one and its flaws are glaring. Nokia's have flaws as well, but the difference is, I have the common sense to see both sides. Apple will sell a boat load of phones will Nokia will sell a ship load. Apple will not surpass Nokia any time soon. Nokia sells more phones in a month than Apple in six. It ain't gonna happen that Apple will surpass Nokia any time soon. Nor will Nokia drive Apple back into the dark times. I see that there is plenty of market available for everyone to exist while many here are so swollen by drinking Jobs' kool-aid that they can't see their toes. So in my opinion, your entire post is wrong, and by all means you are forgiven as long as you are a Liverpool fan.
I'm too modest to explain why I'm right and your wrong. But I guarantee you will be joining my 'told you so' list.
And no I hate football
I'm too modest to explain why I'm right and your wrong. But I guarantee you will be joining my 'told you so' list.
And no I hate football
HATE FOOTIE !!!!!!!! Says it ain't so.
We will have to agree to disagree. Nokia will still lead Apple and the world in terms of being the #1 mobile phone seller. Don't forget, they have not released their TS phone yet, but the reviews for it have been very positive and many, many people have been waiting for this over the iPhone. Considering it is unlocked, comes with all the music you can eat, has real VoIP (not just over wifi), and is a real telephone, I will bet you that Apple changes their game to keep up with Nokia sales. Right now, the N85 which was just released is selling quite well, if you can find one.
No my friend, Nokia is not going anywhere, and neither is Apple. They will both co-exist.
I played with the G1 yesterday.
It seemed less polished than the iPhone, but for a first-generation product it was slicker and more usable than any Symbian or Windows Mobile device I have ever seen.
If I were Nokia, I'd dump Symbian and put all my chips on Android.
C.
If I were Nokia, I'd dump Symbian and put all my chips on Android.
C.
And give control of the services layer to Google? That doesn't sound like a winning strategy from a Nokia perspective.
Handing over control of your software platform is great if you're an also-ran. It'll save you a lot of money in the short term and you don't need to build up any maturity in software development yourself. Motorola has probably chosen the right option (for once) but leaders like Nokia would be silly to do the same.
Handing over control of your software platform is great if you're an also-ran. It'll save you a lot of money in the short term and you don't need to build up any maturity in software development yourself. Motorola has probably chosen the right option (for once) but leaders like Nokia would be silly to do the same.
Both Windows Mobile and Symbian are old and outdated platforms. They are not well-liked by software developers. Progress seems to have slowed to a crawl. Apple and Google are moving so fast, Nokia looks like it is going backwards.
Nokia tying their fortune to Symbian is like a swimmer tying himself to an anchor.
C.
Both Windows Mobile and Symbian are old and outdated platforms. They are not well-liked by software developers. Progress seems to have slowed to a crawl. Apple and Google are moving so fast, Nokia looks like it is going backwards.
Nokia tying their fortune to Symbian is like a swimmer tying himself to an anchor.
C.
Maybe you have heard of the words: Open Source. Symbian = Open Source.
Maybe you have heard of the words: Open Source. Symbian = Open Source.
Symbian = Lead Balloon
C.
Symbian = Lead Balloon
C.
Like Maemo right. Nokia will be fine and remain number one while Apple will remain #2.