Like nearly all "journalists" this guy has no experience or financial education.
Gregg, that's a nice generalization. According to Linkdin, his education was at univ of texas austin, and at harvard ( couldn't find his field of study). His experience is as follows, according to a google search (Journalists--yeah, I'm one--do some research before stating "facts"). Assuming (an un-journalistic thing to do) that this is the same Ezra Gottheil...
Ezra Gottheil
Corporate Alumni Inc.
Ezra Gottheil was at Lotus for almost twelve years, from 1981 to 1993. In fact, the company he joined in 1981 was not even called Lotus; it was Micro Finance Systems, a company Mitch Kapor had formed to market his first software product, Tiny Troll. Ezra met Mitch in high school, and they formed a close friendship at what he calls "nerd camp," a summer science program in the hills north of Los Angeles.
"For years," Ezra recalls, "Mitch was an entrepreneur in search of a medium. He had a background in computing, among other things, but the mainframes and minis involved too much centralization, too much politics. Mitch embraced the personal computer as if he immediately recognized his true calling." Meanwhile, Ezra had developed some computer expertise working as a programmer to put himself through graduate school in Psychology.
Mitch was starting what was to become Lotus at the same time that Ezra was concluding his internship at The Cambridge Hospital. Mitch offered a loosely defined part-time position at the start-up, and Ezra grabbed it. Offices were in a basement in Central Square. Janet Axelrod, later VP of HR, was office manager, and Ezra became employee number three. Ezra says that for a while, he did some programming and prototyping, but it became apparent that there were some real professionals out there, and he looked for other ways to contribute. Finally, he joined the 1-2-3 documentation team, and authored approximately one-fourth of the first user manual.
For the rest of his Lotus career, Ezra played a large number of roles, principally in software design, but also in product management and product planning. He worked on several versions of 1-2-3 for DOS, Symphony, Manuscript, Notes in the very early days, Signal, Metro, Bluefish, and HAL. He was the product manager for HAL, and remembers it as one of his favorite projects. "HAL was an old-fashioned make-it-up-as-you-go-along crunch. I never worked harder or had more fun. Bluefish reignited my passion for software, and Symphony 2.0 was a dream of a project."
Ezra left Lotus in 1993 and joined Delphi Internet Services, one of the first national ISPs. "It was like personal computer software in the early eighties. We didn’t know what we couldn’t do, so we did it. I‘ve been incredibly lucky to be in at the beginnings of both the personal computer and Internet revolutions." Ezra found himself on the editorial side of Delphi, running their community- and content-development team. Delphi was acquired by Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation, and Ezra found himself in the media business. "I was having the time of my life until they moved to New York."
After a stint as an independent consultant, Ezra joined Hurwitz Group, a small industry analysis firm, where he covered Internet software. "Being an analyst is the opposite of being a product manager. A product manager knows everything about one small thing, the product. An analyst knows very little about a vast number of things. Viewing the world at 50,000 feet certainly gives you great perspective, but little contact with reality."
Leaving Hurwitz in 1998, Ezra again worked as an independent consultant in the Internet software world, until he met up with Glenn Kaufman, President and Founder of Corporate Alumni Inc., the company which hosts Axle and other company alumni communities. Ezra’s business card reads "Community Guru." "The Corporate Alumni mission, reuniting real communities using technology, is exactly what I like to do. I enjoy technology, but only in the service of real people."
So the MacBook can't do what you did with the MacBook Air? You're lying to justify your purchase. You could have completed the exact same tasks, and then some with the MacBook as opposed to the Air. And you could have gotten it done faster.
And I do carry my MacBook around with me, so I know what it's like to travel with it.
How is he lying if the Macbook Air mets his needs?
These mockups have a pension for obsessing over handheld tablets ala Star Trek...
Spock would say not pension, but penchant: "a strong or habitual liking for something, or tendency to do something, as in, 'he has a penchant for adopting stray dogs'..."
Apple is not going to release a cheap laptop. They may create a low-cost product offering that would fall into the netbook category, but it will not be a netbook as the term is currently defined. The current definition of a netbook is very broad and encompasses low-cost, low-performance, ultra-portable, and most importantly for Apple, encompasses low-quality. Apple will not release a low-quality offering.
I believe that Apple will redefine the entire netbook category and create something that is not synonymous with cheap, or even laptop. Their product will be something completely different and revolutionary like the iPhone: ?netbook? is just a marketing term after all - there?s a lot of innovation to be had here.
Releasing a cheap notebook would ruin the rest of their product line-up.
Apple is not going to release a cheap laptop. They may create a low-cost product offering that would fall into the netbook category, but it will not be a netbook as the term is currently defined. The current definition of a netbook is very broad and encompasses low-cost, low-performance, ultra-portable, and most importantly for Apple, encompasses low-quality. Apple will not release a low-quality offering.
I believe that Apple will redefine the entire netbook category and create something that is not synonymous with cheap, or even laptop. Their product will be something completely different and revolutionary like the iPhone: ?netbook? is just a marketing term after all - there?s a lot of innovation to be had here.
Releasing a cheap notebook would ruin the rest of their product line-up.
I think they must be counting the 10-foot piles of netbooks that are stacked in every Costco in the country. I don't know if anyone knows what they really are and are buying them, but they sit there like grapefruit. The ultimate position of a commodity. It is pushing the business models to be able to evaluate what sales are.
Even with this, I think Apple can reinvent the form-factor if it can do something real with .mac and MobileMe. That is part of the future, just as much as iPhones are. And the thing is that the infrastructure that supports the iPhone can be the same one for the netbook and THAT is the point. Apple now has been creating ecosystems, not just computer systems so that OSX and .mac and content delivery with iTunes is all in set for any device to fit in.
I'm sure this is 99% a business decision and not a tech decision, but I think now is the time to tweak the business model. I think the eBook with internet is more the way to go myself, but whatever the form, the netbook is a place for the market to meet profits.
As a writer, it would be great to have something small that I could just have with me where ever I go, so that I could take notes, or jot down ideas as they come to me, no matter where I am. So, I have my own fantasy for an Apple netbook/tablet thing:
Basically, something about the size of a paperback novel, perhaps a slightly larger footprint, but small enough to fit inside a large coat pocket, and about a quarter-inch to half-inch in thickness. Machined aluminum, fully weather sealed, no moving parts. No physical ports of any kind. It would be powered via induction, and all communication would be via bluetooth, airport, -- and I heard that induction could also possibly handle data transmission. Basically, this thing would be a tank. I could drop it in my bag, and not worry about bits breaking off, or it being crushed among other gear or books. I could take it to the beach and not worry about salt corrosion, or sand getting into any ports, because there AREN'T any ports. Or, if I was sitting by the pool, and someone splashed water everywhere, it wouldn't be a disaster. I'd just wipe off the screen and continue doing what I was doing.
On the software side, a major upgrade to Apple's "Ink" software, so that it could "learn" my handwriting, which would enable me to jot down quick notes, and it would save the file both as a text file, and as a vector graphic of my actual writing strokes.
A stylus would be important, because, for jotting notes or drawing rough sketches, it would be much better to use a stylus than my finger.
And, of course, it could download movies or games to the SSD, so that I could watch movies on the plane, or stream them from my main computer when I'm at home (although, why would I want to watch movies on my tiny tablet if I'm at home, and can watch them on the main computer, or on TV? Because I could, that's why.)
I was not that impressed with the MacBook Air when it came out, because, while the thinness was amusing and mildly impressive, I didn't like that it had the same footprint as the 13" MacBook, which doesn't help when I have a cluttered desk, or limited space in my backpack word processor, movie player, e-reader, note-taker, photo album, would work great for me. I'd pay $599 to $999 for something like that.
Why not just ask for world peace? It would arrive sooner and be easier to achieve.
It's not as simple as that. How can netbooks who are smaller, lighter, have more features, be cheaper than the MacBook Air?
Put simply - if a netbook was smaller and lighter than the MacBook Air, at the same hardware configuration, it wouldn't have more features. It might be slightly cheaper, but it won't be $500 vs Apple's $1800.
It's a trade off. Computer can get away with being less powerful if you don't push them as hard (eg: use XP instead of Vista). There's nothing wrong with that - it's actually very smart - for a long time the focus has been on pc features not size, and the OS has been designed to run best on the latest hardware (size irrelevant) and the lightest smallest computers aren't the best hardware (in comparison to the desktop chips and even regular laptop chips).
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo
It comes down to quality of materials and profit margins. It may cost them more to build using aluminum instead of cheap plastics, but in the end, it still comes down to margins. Apple simply requires higher, much higher margins on it's products.
Apple is not making a 400% markup on the MBA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo
I'm surprised the MacBook Air isn't positioned below a MacBook. Yes, it's lighter, and slimmer, but is it as feature rich? It's probably too late at this point in it's product life, but the MacBook Air would have really taken off at the $900-$1000 price point.
They DID drop some features to reduce size. But when you're on the cutting edge of lighter/slimmer you either drop a lot of speed etc or the cost goes up.
Your example is probably a good representation of what most people see. They know that smaller size increases cost if you want the same performance, but since the MBA is slower they figure that performance HAS been sacrificed and thus the price shouldn't still be high. The problem is the performance would need to be much further reduced to do that.
I know OSX can run on lesser machines and Apple could produce a netbook with OSX - but factor in the ram, hard disk, battery life, and general performance and the picture equalises a lot.
Like the MacBook Air ultraportable, this future system would be at least as thin and light as others in its category but would potentially have a larger surface area to allow a larger display or more comfortable input. Netbook owners carry their systems "in stacks with papers and books" and care more about thickness than footprint, according to Gottheil
Netbook owners ... care more about thickness than footprint? Mr. Gottheil perhaps you should check out the MacBooks VS the netbooks.
The MacBook and MacBook Pro are 0.95 inches in thickness.
The MacBook Air ranges in thickness from 0.16 to 0.76 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 inch Dell Inspiron Mini 9 ranges from 1.07 to 1.25 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 inch Acer Aspire® One is 1.1 inches in thickness.`
the 10 inch Wind U100 ranges from 1.07 to 1.25 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 inch Dell Inspiron Mini 9 ranges from 0.75 to 1.24 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 Asus - Eee PC Netbook is 1.3 inches in thickness
the 10.2 inch HP - Mini Netbook is 1 inch in thickness.
Hmmm, are you sure that they "care more about thickness than footprint? If so, then the MacBook are clear winners. Perhaps I didn't understand the point.
I agree that $300 - $500 for a netbook is very much less than $999 or 1299 or 1699 or even higher priced MacBooks but then again you are comparing Apples with Oranges (or perhaps prunes).
Seriously, if all you want to do is surf the net then these low-powered, small display PC netbooks are probably pretty good and if all you want to do is basic word processing that is also probably fine.
An iPhone/iPod Touch is also pretty good too and a small display MacBook will blow all these PCs away ... when it comes out.
Apple only cares about it's statistical ranking if they are making money to achieve it. Then they market the crap out of that ranking. Apple is probably making more net profit from that single MB at rank 9 than the combined net profit of the 8 netbooks above it. The real testament here is that Apple is still in the top 10 with an item that is on average more than 3x the cost of the other items.
PS: How many non-netbooks, non-Macs trump out Apple's current product range on Amazon? This is why the Mac segment is half of Apple's profit.
But profit margin is not the only thing that business needs to worry about. Too many MBA types keep thinking of margins or total sales just because it is easier. Having one expensive model in a sea of cheaper ones may be okay for awhile, but the auto industry is looking at problems with business as usual.
The key is where are the new markets opening up? The disaffected Vista customers will not always be there. If you want to increase market share you have to change the mind of at least some of those netbookers and why not try? If netbooks don't take off, then they won't scavenge much of Apple's MacBooks anyway.
Like nearly all "journalists" this guy has no experience or financial education.
All economic slowdowns/recessions have a finite life. In the US the longest recession, since WWII, lasted 18 months. This one is now 12 months old. That means this has only 6 months to go before it too fades into our memories. That duration isn't anywhere near long enough to cause Apple any concern about "cash strapped" consumers.
I hate to break it to you, but this one is just starting. Wait until the horrible 4th quarter to finish, then look at employment numbers the first few months of next year...
Unfortunately, the AA1 is junk. I cringe when I use the touchpad, and the buttons are awful. The keyboard isn't as responsive as I would like, and I miss OS X. Paying 50% more for a well designed, well built, OSX machine is a good value for the consumer, and can have solid margins for Apple.
I think you nailed it on the head as far as where Apple would likely enter this market.
It can use the same basic intermal hardware as other netbooks- ~1.6GHz Intel Atom, 1 GB or so of RAM, Intel 950 integrated graphics- but Apple can spend a bit more on the external parts (mainly casing and keyboard) and charge $599 for a very attractive and USABLE little unit.
I've installed Leopard on a MSI Wind, and it runs very well. It handles Expose and other GUI graphical touches just fine too, considering it has the same integrated graphics as the original MacBook.
Well, the number one thing netbook owners care about is price, which rules out the MacBooks for the general netbook shopper. But as far as FORM FACTOR is concerned, then I think the analyst was right- look at the recent trend towards 10 and even 12 inch netbooks- people are realizing that cramped keyboards and really small screens just don't cut it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juanm105
Netbook owners ... care more about thickness than footprint? Mr. Gottheil perhaps you should check out the MacBooks VS the netbooks.
The MacBook and MacBook Pro are 0.95 inches in thickness.
The MacBook Air ranges in thickness from 0.16 to 0.76 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 inch Dell Inspiron Mini 9 ranges from 1.07 to 1.25 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 inch Acer Aspire® One is 1.1 inches in thickness.`
the 10 inch Wind U100 ranges from 1.07 to 1.25 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 inch Dell Inspiron Mini 9 ranges from 0.75 to 1.24 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 Asus - Eee PC Netbook is 1.3 inches in thickness
the 10.2 inch HP - Mini Netbook is 1 inch in thickness.
Netbooks do not have the best benefit/cost ratio. Their form factor prevents it from being useful for much more than surfing the internet and online communication, and while that's fine for some people, it's hardly a step up from touch screen handhelds like the iPod touch, which can do the same job while being much smaller.
Have you used both extensively? I love the iPod Touch for what it is, but even a netbook is a significant stet up for many general computing tasks- surfing the web, email, office documents, etc.
Quote:
A lower specced notebook with excellent build quality would be a better value, since at least then it could be used for long periods of typing, which is important to far more people than simply being able to access the internet. Netbooks are simply being over hyped by geeks and analysts that know nothing. One of my friends bought an EeePC a few months ago and now it just sits unused next to her iMac and Macbook. Once she got over it's small size, it just became another gadget for random geekery.
I completely agree, which is why I think Apple could take the basic internals from a $350 netbook, and give a bigger screen and keyboard that you could comfortably touch type on. Boom- there's your $600 netbook. The basic netbook now uses a 1.6GHz Intel Atom and Intel 950 integrated graphics, which run OS X surprisingly well.
Quote:
Now, in regards to what Apple can do to better satisfy people who want a more portable notebook, the first step would be to get the price of the Macbook Air down. A lot of the expense is from using Intel's low power notebook processors instead of the Atom, which are more expensive than normal notebook processors. An obvious solution would be to use the Atom, which would reduce the price. However, I suspect the best solution may be to build a thin low cost Macbook around ARM processors, which would allow for much better battery life.
I don't think you start with the Air if you want to build a product than jumps down 3 or 4 price tiers. There's manufactuing and other design decisions that go into the Air due to it's price point, that couldn't be done in even a $999 computer. The Intel Atom is dirt cheap and absolutely fine, and can provide plenty of battery life and would require the least amount of R&D to build around. An ARM CPU would be fine too of course, if there was some signficant advantage to it in costerformance. I think it would be roughly a wash though.
It's a real shame that so MANY people don't see that it's expensive to make things smaller.??. I am not wanting to target you specifically palegolas but really Apple can't just sell it for $600?
Well, yeah I guess it's probably initially more expensive to develop the standards for a tiny computer that runs OSX, but that doesn't mean it must be marketed that way. The Air is super cool, but if it was priced and marketed as a product closer to its actual specs and capacity I'd say it'd sell in big numbers, and when production ramp goes up I think they could price it way lower.
If Apple wanted to develop an AIR for the consumers for $600 I say they could do it without compensating quality. Like they're doing with the new MacBooks. Wow, they look, feel and perform so hi fi pro polished and still selling at a reasonable price.
Well, yeah I guess it's probably initially more expensive to develop the standards for a tiny computer that runs OSX, but that doesn't mean it must be marketed that way. The Air is super cool, but if it was priced and marketed as a product closer to its actual specs and capacity I'd say it'd sell in big numbers, and when production ramp goes up I think they could price it way lower.
If Apple wanted to develop an AIR for the consumers for $600 I say they could do it without compensating quality. Like they're doing with the new MacBooks. Wow, they look, feel and perform so hi fi pro polished and still selling at a reasonable price.
I'll quote Arnold: "Give these people AIR".
The MBA is priced competitively. The others PCs vying for the MBA's market costa right around the same and couple actually cost more. These machines use the same 13" display, 1.8" 120GB HDD, and SFF CPU.
I don't think you are considering that the 1.6GHz CPU that you can get in the MBA and its ilk and the 1.6GHz CPU that you get in netbooks have a $300 (per 1000) price difference. The HDDs are 1.8" v 2.5" the displays are small, cheap TN panels, while the MBA uses what appears to be an LED-backlit IPS panel. Then their is the cost of the case and quality of the keyboard the fact that it now has a GPU capable of powering a 30" display, etc.
Leave it to Apple to wait until after the holiday rush to unveil a new product--millions lost just so Mr. Jobs can run his dog and pony show in January.
I am surprised that Steve Jobs is so out of touch with reality. As mentioned on Engadget not long ago, Amazon indicated that out of their 10 laptop best sellers, 9 were netbooks. The one exception? The 13-inch Mac.
Many people buy netbooks as "a spare" but I suspect that many --especially students-- will make do with these really portable devices, for a good while -- until they get their first job after graduation.
That the iPhone, crippled to death as it is, can be used as a netbook has got to be the joke of the year.
1-The crippled Bluetooth prevents the use of a decent size wireless qwerty keyboard. Foldable keyboards on Berries, Windows Mobile and Symbian are about $75 on eBay.
2-No Cut & Paste (!)
3-No docking station for a larger display or keyboard.
4-Can't be used as a modem.
etc.
As it is, the iPhone is a cure for which I have no known disease. If I had an iPhone I would have to carry a full-size overpriced laptop with me most of the time. That ain't gonna happen as long as I have better options.
The MBA is priced competitively. The others PCs vying for the MBA's market costa right around the same and couple actually cost more. These machines use the same 13" display, 1.8" 120GB HDD, and SFF CPU.
I don't think you are considering that the 1.6GHz CPU that you can get in the MBA and its ilk and the 1.6GHz CPU that you get in netbooks have a $300 (per 1000) price difference. The HDDs are 1.8" v 2.5" the displays are small, cheap TN panels, while the MBA uses what appears to be an LED-backlit IPS panel. Then their is the cost of the case and quality of the keyboard the fact that it now has a GPU capable of powering a 30" display, etc.
The Atom dual core costs $43...just a little different.
Comments
Like nearly all "journalists" this guy has no experience or financial education.
Gregg, that's a nice generalization. According to Linkdin, his education was at univ of texas austin, and at harvard ( couldn't find his field of study). His experience is as follows, according to a google search (Journalists--yeah, I'm one--do some research before stating "facts"). Assuming (an un-journalistic thing to do) that this is the same Ezra Gottheil...
Ezra Gottheil
Corporate Alumni Inc.
Ezra Gottheil was at Lotus for almost twelve years, from 1981 to 1993. In fact, the company he joined in 1981 was not even called Lotus; it was Micro Finance Systems, a company Mitch Kapor had formed to market his first software product, Tiny Troll. Ezra met Mitch in high school, and they formed a close friendship at what he calls "nerd camp," a summer science program in the hills north of Los Angeles.
"For years," Ezra recalls, "Mitch was an entrepreneur in search of a medium. He had a background in computing, among other things, but the mainframes and minis involved too much centralization, too much politics. Mitch embraced the personal computer as if he immediately recognized his true calling." Meanwhile, Ezra had developed some computer expertise working as a programmer to put himself through graduate school in Psychology.
Mitch was starting what was to become Lotus at the same time that Ezra was concluding his internship at The Cambridge Hospital. Mitch offered a loosely defined part-time position at the start-up, and Ezra grabbed it. Offices were in a basement in Central Square. Janet Axelrod, later VP of HR, was office manager, and Ezra became employee number three. Ezra says that for a while, he did some programming and prototyping, but it became apparent that there were some real professionals out there, and he looked for other ways to contribute. Finally, he joined the 1-2-3 documentation team, and authored approximately one-fourth of the first user manual.
For the rest of his Lotus career, Ezra played a large number of roles, principally in software design, but also in product management and product planning. He worked on several versions of 1-2-3 for DOS, Symphony, Manuscript, Notes in the very early days, Signal, Metro, Bluefish, and HAL. He was the product manager for HAL, and remembers it as one of his favorite projects. "HAL was an old-fashioned make-it-up-as-you-go-along crunch. I never worked harder or had more fun. Bluefish reignited my passion for software, and Symphony 2.0 was a dream of a project."
Ezra left Lotus in 1993 and joined Delphi Internet Services, one of the first national ISPs. "It was like personal computer software in the early eighties. We didn’t know what we couldn’t do, so we did it. I‘ve been incredibly lucky to be in at the beginnings of both the personal computer and Internet revolutions." Ezra found himself on the editorial side of Delphi, running their community- and content-development team. Delphi was acquired by Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation, and Ezra found himself in the media business. "I was having the time of my life until they moved to New York."
After a stint as an independent consultant, Ezra joined Hurwitz Group, a small industry analysis firm, where he covered Internet software. "Being an analyst is the opposite of being a product manager. A product manager knows everything about one small thing, the product. An analyst knows very little about a vast number of things. Viewing the world at 50,000 feet certainly gives you great perspective, but little contact with reality."
Leaving Hurwitz in 1998, Ezra again worked as an independent consultant in the Internet software world, until he met up with Glenn Kaufman, President and Founder of Corporate Alumni Inc., the company which hosts Axle and other company alumni communities. Ezra’s business card reads "Community Guru." "The Corporate Alumni mission, reuniting real communities using technology, is exactly what I like to do. I enjoy technology, but only in the service of real people."
July 31, 2000
So the MacBook can't do what you did with the MacBook Air? You're lying to justify your purchase. You could have completed the exact same tasks, and then some with the MacBook as opposed to the Air. And you could have gotten it done faster.
And I do carry my MacBook around with me, so I know what it's like to travel with it.
How is he lying if the Macbook Air mets his needs?
These mockups have a pension for obsessing over handheld tablets ala Star Trek...
Spock would say not pension, but penchant: "a strong or habitual liking for something, or tendency to do something, as in, 'he has a penchant for adopting stray dogs'..."
I believe that Apple will redefine the entire netbook category and create something that is not synonymous with cheap, or even laptop. Their product will be something completely different and revolutionary like the iPhone: ?netbook? is just a marketing term after all - there?s a lot of innovation to be had here.
Releasing a cheap notebook would ruin the rest of their product line-up.
Check out my recent response to this AppleInsider article...
Apple is not going to release a cheap laptop. They may create a low-cost product offering that would fall into the netbook category, but it will not be a netbook as the term is currently defined. The current definition of a netbook is very broad and encompasses low-cost, low-performance, ultra-portable, and most importantly for Apple, encompasses low-quality. Apple will not release a low-quality offering.
I believe that Apple will redefine the entire netbook category and create something that is not synonymous with cheap, or even laptop. Their product will be something completely different and revolutionary like the iPhone: ?netbook? is just a marketing term after all - there?s a lot of innovation to be had here.
Releasing a cheap notebook would ruin the rest of their product line-up.
Check out my recent response to this AppleInsider article...
One definition of Netbook and MID.
Really? Numbers please.
I think they must be counting the 10-foot piles of netbooks that are stacked in every Costco in the country. I don't know if anyone knows what they really are and are buying them, but they sit there like grapefruit. The ultimate position of a commodity. It is pushing the business models to be able to evaluate what sales are.
Even with this, I think Apple can reinvent the form-factor if it can do something real with .mac and MobileMe. That is part of the future, just as much as iPhones are. And the thing is that the infrastructure that supports the iPhone can be the same one for the netbook and THAT is the point. Apple now has been creating ecosystems, not just computer systems so that OSX and .mac and content delivery with iTunes is all in set for any device to fit in.
I'm sure this is 99% a business decision and not a tech decision, but I think now is the time to tweak the business model. I think the eBook with internet is more the way to go myself, but whatever the form, the netbook is a place for the market to meet profits.
iPod or iPhone is NOT a netbook!!
It's no way I use my iPhone for making fast notes in a meeting. I want a netbook priced somewhere between $400 and MAX $600.
Macbook are SO expensive, it's a pricecrap for us with modern needs.
Apple - please do not come with a fancy netbook that are priced over $600!!
Amen, brother.
As a writer, it would be great to have something small that I could just have with me where ever I go, so that I could take notes, or jot down ideas as they come to me, no matter where I am. So, I have my own fantasy for an Apple netbook/tablet thing:
Basically, something about the size of a paperback novel, perhaps a slightly larger footprint, but small enough to fit inside a large coat pocket, and about a quarter-inch to half-inch in thickness. Machined aluminum, fully weather sealed, no moving parts. No physical ports of any kind. It would be powered via induction, and all communication would be via bluetooth, airport, -- and I heard that induction could also possibly handle data transmission. Basically, this thing would be a tank. I could drop it in my bag, and not worry about bits breaking off, or it being crushed among other gear or books. I could take it to the beach and not worry about salt corrosion, or sand getting into any ports, because there AREN'T any ports. Or, if I was sitting by the pool, and someone splashed water everywhere, it wouldn't be a disaster. I'd just wipe off the screen and continue doing what I was doing.
On the software side, a major upgrade to Apple's "Ink" software, so that it could "learn" my handwriting, which would enable me to jot down quick notes, and it would save the file both as a text file, and as a vector graphic of my actual writing strokes.
A stylus would be important, because, for jotting notes or drawing rough sketches, it would be much better to use a stylus than my finger.
And, of course, it could download movies or games to the SSD, so that I could watch movies on the plane, or stream them from my main computer when I'm at home (although, why would I want to watch movies on my tiny tablet if I'm at home, and can watch them on the main computer, or on TV? Because I could, that's why.)
I was not that impressed with the MacBook Air when it came out, because, while the thinness was amusing and mildly impressive, I didn't like that it had the same footprint as the 13" MacBook, which doesn't help when I have a cluttered desk, or limited space in my backpack word processor, movie player, e-reader, note-taker, photo album, would work great for me. I'd pay $599 to $999 for something like that.
Why not just ask for world peace? It would arrive sooner and be easier to achieve.
It's not as simple as that. How can netbooks who are smaller, lighter, have more features, be cheaper than the MacBook Air?
Put simply - if a netbook was smaller and lighter than the MacBook Air, at the same hardware configuration, it wouldn't have more features. It might be slightly cheaper, but it won't be $500 vs Apple's $1800.
It's a trade off. Computer can get away with being less powerful if you don't push them as hard (eg: use XP instead of Vista). There's nothing wrong with that - it's actually very smart - for a long time the focus has been on pc features not size, and the OS has been designed to run best on the latest hardware (size irrelevant) and the lightest smallest computers aren't the best hardware (in comparison to the desktop chips and even regular laptop chips).
It comes down to quality of materials and profit margins. It may cost them more to build using aluminum instead of cheap plastics, but in the end, it still comes down to margins. Apple simply requires higher, much higher margins on it's products.
Apple is not making a 400% markup on the MBA.
I'm surprised the MacBook Air isn't positioned below a MacBook. Yes, it's lighter, and slimmer, but is it as feature rich? It's probably too late at this point in it's product life, but the MacBook Air would have really taken off at the $900-$1000 price point.
They DID drop some features to reduce size. But when you're on the cutting edge of lighter/slimmer you either drop a lot of speed etc or the cost goes up.
Your example is probably a good representation of what most people see. They know that smaller size increases cost if you want the same performance, but since the MBA is slower they figure that performance HAS been sacrificed and thus the price shouldn't still be high. The problem is the performance would need to be much further reduced to do that.
I know OSX can run on lesser machines and Apple could produce a netbook with OSX - but factor in the ram, hard disk, battery life, and general performance and the picture equalises a lot.
Like the MacBook Air ultraportable, this future system would be at least as thin and light as others in its category but would potentially have a larger surface area to allow a larger display or more comfortable input. Netbook owners carry their systems "in stacks with papers and books" and care more about thickness than footprint, according to Gottheil
Netbook owners ... care more about thickness than footprint? Mr. Gottheil perhaps you should check out the MacBooks VS the netbooks.
The MacBook and MacBook Pro are 0.95 inches in thickness.
The MacBook Air ranges in thickness from 0.16 to 0.76 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 inch Dell Inspiron Mini 9 ranges from 1.07 to 1.25 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 inch Acer Aspire® One is 1.1 inches in thickness.`
the 10 inch Wind U100 ranges from 1.07 to 1.25 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 inch Dell Inspiron Mini 9 ranges from 0.75 to 1.24 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 Asus - Eee PC Netbook is 1.3 inches in thickness
the 10.2 inch HP - Mini Netbook is 1 inch in thickness.
Hmmm, are you sure that they "care more about thickness than footprint? If so, then the MacBook are clear winners. Perhaps I didn't understand the point.
I agree that $300 - $500 for a netbook is very much less than $999 or 1299 or 1699 or even higher priced MacBooks but then again you are comparing Apples with Oranges (or perhaps prunes).
Seriously, if all you want to do is surf the net then these low-powered, small display PC netbooks are probably pretty good and if all you want to do is basic word processing that is also probably fine.
An iPhone/iPod Touch is also pretty good too and a small display MacBook will blow all these PCs away ... when it comes out.
Apple only cares about it's statistical ranking if they are making money to achieve it. Then they market the crap out of that ranking. Apple is probably making more net profit from that single MB at rank 9 than the combined net profit of the 8 netbooks above it. The real testament here is that Apple is still in the top 10 with an item that is on average more than 3x the cost of the other items.
PS: How many non-netbooks, non-Macs trump out Apple's current product range on Amazon? This is why the Mac segment is half of Apple's profit.
But profit margin is not the only thing that business needs to worry about. Too many MBA types keep thinking of margins or total sales just because it is easier. Having one expensive model in a sea of cheaper ones may be okay for awhile, but the auto industry is looking at problems with business as usual.
The key is where are the new markets opening up? The disaffected Vista customers will not always be there. If you want to increase market share you have to change the mind of at least some of those netbookers and why not try? If netbooks don't take off, then they won't scavenge much of Apple's MacBooks anyway.
Lord help us from MBA's.
Like nearly all "journalists" this guy has no experience or financial education.
All economic slowdowns/recessions have a finite life. In the US the longest recession, since WWII, lasted 18 months. This one is now 12 months old. That means this has only 6 months to go before it too fades into our memories. That duration isn't anywhere near long enough to cause Apple any concern about "cash strapped" consumers.
I hate to break it to you, but this one is just starting. Wait until the horrible 4th quarter to finish, then look at employment numbers the first few months of next year...
Unfortunately, the AA1 is junk. I cringe when I use the touchpad, and the buttons are awful. The keyboard isn't as responsive as I would like, and I miss OS X. Paying 50% more for a well designed, well built, OSX machine is a good value for the consumer, and can have solid margins for Apple.
I think you nailed it on the head as far as where Apple would likely enter this market.
It can use the same basic intermal hardware as other netbooks- ~1.6GHz Intel Atom, 1 GB or so of RAM, Intel 950 integrated graphics- but Apple can spend a bit more on the external parts (mainly casing and keyboard) and charge $599 for a very attractive and USABLE little unit.
I've installed Leopard on a MSI Wind, and it runs very well. It handles Expose and other GUI graphical touches just fine too, considering it has the same integrated graphics as the original MacBook.
Netbook owners ... care more about thickness than footprint? Mr. Gottheil perhaps you should check out the MacBooks VS the netbooks.
The MacBook and MacBook Pro are 0.95 inches in thickness.
The MacBook Air ranges in thickness from 0.16 to 0.76 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 inch Dell Inspiron Mini 9 ranges from 1.07 to 1.25 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 inch Acer Aspire® One is 1.1 inches in thickness.`
the 10 inch Wind U100 ranges from 1.07 to 1.25 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 inch Dell Inspiron Mini 9 ranges from 0.75 to 1.24 inches in thickness.
the 8.9 Asus - Eee PC Netbook is 1.3 inches in thickness
the 10.2 inch HP - Mini Netbook is 1 inch in thickness.
Netbooks do not have the best benefit/cost ratio. Their form factor prevents it from being useful for much more than surfing the internet and online communication, and while that's fine for some people, it's hardly a step up from touch screen handhelds like the iPod touch, which can do the same job while being much smaller.
Have you used both extensively? I love the iPod Touch for what it is, but even a netbook is a significant stet up for many general computing tasks- surfing the web, email, office documents, etc.
A lower specced notebook with excellent build quality would be a better value, since at least then it could be used for long periods of typing, which is important to far more people than simply being able to access the internet. Netbooks are simply being over hyped by geeks and analysts that know nothing. One of my friends bought an EeePC a few months ago and now it just sits unused next to her iMac and Macbook. Once she got over it's small size, it just became another gadget for random geekery.
I completely agree, which is why I think Apple could take the basic internals from a $350 netbook, and give a bigger screen and keyboard that you could comfortably touch type on. Boom- there's your $600 netbook. The basic netbook now uses a 1.6GHz Intel Atom and Intel 950 integrated graphics, which run OS X surprisingly well.
Now, in regards to what Apple can do to better satisfy people who want a more portable notebook, the first step would be to get the price of the Macbook Air down. A lot of the expense is from using Intel's low power notebook processors instead of the Atom, which are more expensive than normal notebook processors. An obvious solution would be to use the Atom, which would reduce the price. However, I suspect the best solution may be to build a thin low cost Macbook around ARM processors, which would allow for much better battery life.
I don't think you start with the Air if you want to build a product than jumps down 3 or 4 price tiers. There's manufactuing and other design decisions that go into the Air due to it's price point, that couldn't be done in even a $999 computer. The Intel Atom is dirt cheap and absolutely fine, and can provide plenty of battery life and would require the least amount of R&D to build around. An ARM CPU would be fine too of course, if there was some signficant advantage to it in cost
It's a real shame that so MANY people don't see that it's expensive to make things smaller.??. I am not wanting to target you specifically palegolas but really Apple can't just sell it for $600?
Well, yeah I guess it's probably initially more expensive to develop the standards for a tiny computer that runs OSX, but that doesn't mean it must be marketed that way. The Air is super cool, but if it was priced and marketed as a product closer to its actual specs and capacity I'd say it'd sell in big numbers, and when production ramp goes up I think they could price it way lower.
If Apple wanted to develop an AIR for the consumers for $600 I say they could do it without compensating quality. Like they're doing with the new MacBooks. Wow, they look, feel and perform so hi fi pro polished and still selling at a reasonable price.
I'll quote Arnold: "Give these people AIR".
Well, yeah I guess it's probably initially more expensive to develop the standards for a tiny computer that runs OSX, but that doesn't mean it must be marketed that way. The Air is super cool, but if it was priced and marketed as a product closer to its actual specs and capacity I'd say it'd sell in big numbers, and when production ramp goes up I think they could price it way lower.
If Apple wanted to develop an AIR for the consumers for $600 I say they could do it without compensating quality. Like they're doing with the new MacBooks. Wow, they look, feel and perform so hi fi pro polished and still selling at a reasonable price.
I'll quote Arnold: "Give these people AIR".
The MBA is priced competitively. The others PCs vying for the MBA's market costa right around the same and couple actually cost more. These machines use the same 13" display, 1.8" 120GB HDD, and SFF CPU.
I don't think you are considering that the 1.6GHz CPU that you can get in the MBA and its ilk and the 1.6GHz CPU that you get in netbooks have a $300 (per 1000) price difference. The HDDs are 1.8" v 2.5" the displays are small, cheap TN panels, while the MBA uses what appears to be an LED-backlit IPS panel. Then their is the cost of the case and quality of the keyboard the fact that it now has a GPU capable of powering a 30" display, etc.
Many people buy netbooks as "a spare" but I suspect that many --especially students-- will make do with these really portable devices, for a good while -- until they get their first job after graduation.
That the iPhone, crippled to death as it is, can be used as a netbook has got to be the joke of the year.
1-The crippled Bluetooth prevents the use of a decent size wireless qwerty keyboard. Foldable keyboards on Berries, Windows Mobile and Symbian are about $75 on eBay.
2-No Cut & Paste (!)
3-No docking station for a larger display or keyboard.
4-Can't be used as a modem.
etc.
As it is, the iPhone is a cure for which I have no known disease. If I had an iPhone I would have to carry a full-size overpriced laptop with me most of the time. That ain't gonna happen as long as I have better options.
The MBA is priced competitively. The others PCs vying for the MBA's market costa right around the same and couple actually cost more. These machines use the same 13" display, 1.8" 120GB HDD, and SFF CPU.
I don't think you are considering that the 1.6GHz CPU that you can get in the MBA and its ilk and the 1.6GHz CPU that you get in netbooks have a $300 (per 1000) price difference. The HDDs are 1.8" v 2.5" the displays are small, cheap TN panels, while the MBA uses what appears to be an LED-backlit IPS panel. Then their is the cost of the case and quality of the keyboard the fact that it now has a GPU capable of powering a 30" display, etc.
The Atom dual core costs $43...just a little different.