To me, this seems like fertile ground for cognitive dissonance.
I don't understand why it's not a non-standard jack when most standard plugs don't fit into it without an adapter and added risk of damage that an unnecessary adapter entails.
The jack itself is standard, with respect to electrical connections. The housing around the jack was what prevented many plugs from fitting into it. Specs don't cover that.
No cognitive dissonance here, and I did say it was a stupid design.
I don't see how that follows at all. The 1/8" audio jack has been a standard for over three decades. It stands to reason there would be a plethora of peripherals out there using it and it's incumbent on any manufacturer to ensure their jack works with those existing devices. It's a case of lighting a candle vs. cursing the darkness. I fear Apple has chosen the latter instead of the former, leaving its customers in limbo.
I don't know what the heck you are talking about here.
My point was that out of a group of plugs that all seem on visual inspection to be "standard" plugs, if the socket correctly captures some plugs but other plugs still have some "play" in them after being captured, that it's far more likely that the plugs with the "play" are under-designed for the socket. If the socket itself were under-designed, then it would successfully capture the ones that now show some "play" and the other plugs would not be captured, or not fit at all.
Nothing is certain at this point, but it seems far more likely that Apple's plugs are precisely designed to the spec and that the other plugs are slightly smaller (by microns), or slightly misshaped (rounded edges), and thus after capture still have that "play." This is typical Apple to make their plug have tolerances that are smaller than average, but technically it would still be a case of them sticking to the spec more exactly than the others so it's kind of hard to fault them for it. Generally speaking Apple's customers are picky perfectionists that actually *want* the plugs to be designed with tight adherence to the spec.
Not sure what the candle comment is about at all unless you are suggesting that they make a crappy socket to match all the crappy plugs out there.
OSX anyone? Not that compatible with os9. And "classic" was a farce... so few applications worked when they were needed.
and for the record, Microsoft has compatibility options that work well back to programs from 98. Of course, that makes for a BLOATED OS that has a lot of problems... but that isn't the point. your statement is incredibly off-base.
What a load of crap, technology is about the now and tomorrow. Not the yesterday and last century. Who cares if crap isnt backward compatible, This isnt just Apple, or Microsoft. Its any good electronics company. New products arent there to support products of yesterday they are here to support the products of tomorrow. Thats how products move foward. Really for all the pain people are giving themselves with this headphone issue they could just buy a new compatible pair of Apple In Ear and live happily ever after. Apple is what I see as A perfectly closed Technological Ecosystem made to grow for tomorow not preserve for today. Both in the consumer spending aspect, and in the operations aspect of the business. If you dont like that maybe you need to buy different products.but personaly that is what I like about this company. But seriously whoever is concerned with crap dating over a decade old deserves to go back under their rock, and give apple, microsoft, and all other electronic companies trying to push new things out the door a break because thats the world today. and I embrace that fully
You think that's bad? The iPhone headphones don't fit correctly into the MacBook Air headphone port. They work, don't get me wrong, but they don't go in flush, the door's lip is in the way slightly. An embarrassing oversight. I never liked the idea of that door anyway. A lot of those 3rd party 3G Internet dangles can't plug directly in, you need to carry around a stupid Apple adapter that will cost you money, and inconvenience. Like I said, I got the Air cause it's thin and light, most of its faults were simply bad design. A MacBook was out of the question for me; the screens on those 13" MacBooks are awful.
Actually, the original iPhone jack did adhere to the spec. The problem was that the spec does not cover the plastic bit, just the plug itself.
It would probably be fairer in that case to describe the plugs with the giant plastic housing that would not fit into the iPhone as "non-standard" than it would be to describe Apple's plugs as such even though as I said, I don't think the spec covers the housing.
I agree that such slight variations from the spec are pretty common though and Apple could be faulted for not making allowances for that.
The earphones didn't work with the iPhone and it required an adapter. That is non standard.
I don't give a shit if it's the phone or the plug I still had to buy an adapter.
I routinely connect both an older MacBook and a new unibody MacBook to my stereo via a standard 1/8" phone jack and I've never noticed anything unusual with either.
I have a Late '08 MBP and have used it with a number of headphones... from logitech to sennheiser with absolutely no problems at all. I wonder if this is brand specific problem or if there are other issues. Seriously ALL of my headphones snap in really nice... tight... no wiggle room... just a solid and tight connection.
Same here. NO problems with multiple standard stereo jacks and no wiggle at all.
This is obviously an isolated problem with SOME Macbooks having defective jacks.
I've got this problem too, luckily the speakers at my desk seem to be fine but my non-Apple headphones will pop out at the slightest touch. Not disastrous but nice to know that I'm not alone. Mine's a 2GHz, MacBook5,1, A1278.
Not sure what the candle comment is about at all unless you are suggesting that they make a crappy socket to match all the crappy plugs out there.
Yes, that actually is what I'm suggesting, though I'm not sure "crappy" necessarily applies. It seems to me that perhaps Apple could have made a socket that works with a larger % of headphones. Funny how SanDisk and Microsoft and IBM/Lenovo and all the other portable electronics manufacturers can make such jacks. But somehow Apple is absolved from having to perform the same engineering miracle? Rigidly adhering to specs (cursing the darkness) instead of engineering for the real world and already-in-existence peripherals (lighting a candle) is short-sighted and consumer-hostile. Idealism rarely succeeds over pragmatism.
You're likely thinking of keyboard backlight, not Firewire. Firewire was removed from both MB models.
The MacBook Pro also contains the MacBook moniker, which is what was implied by the comment. Though, to be technical, even the MBP lost FW400, though it does still contain FW800.
The MacBook Pro also contains the MacBook moniker, which is what was implied by the comment. Though, to be technical, even the MBP lost FW400, though it does still contain FW800.
The "only removed from entry level model" remark made it sound like he meant the entry level MacBook. I wasn't aware that the entire MacBook line was suddenly demoted to "entry level".
And the fact that even one adapter that is not made by Apple works as well as the Apple plugs does, kind of puts the lie to the whole premise as well.
The plug is "captured" by means of the knob at the end connecting to embedded leaf springs at the back of the socket. If the socket as designed captures some plugs but not others it kind of implies that the plugs are at fault, not the socket.
Apple's plugs look pretty standard to me, and Apple has a history of exacting adherence to specs in things like this, so what are the odds that Apple's plugs are going to turn out to be exactly on the mark and that the plugs in question that don't work are actually just poorly made?
High IMO.
I have this wretched problem using my high end Sony headphones with it's Sony plug. Now tell me, who do you think has made more 3.5mm stereo plugs and sockets, Sony or Apple? The Apple socket is out of spec. The Sony plug is not poorly made. As is so often the case, you are wrong.
You might notice from the gold having largely worn off the shaft that, this plug has seen a bit of use - over a decade of constant use. No other piece of equipment during that decade has exhibited any problem whatsoever accepting and retaining this plug - except the Macbook with it's hissy headphone output and it's wonderful propensity to loose all output via the speakers if you speed up a video in VLC. Not to mention the inability to connect properly with either of my blutooth phones.
It exhibits the same premature ejection problem with the other plugs I have tried as well.
The Apple bashing in this thread is really pathetic and really shows how little people know what they are talking about.
First, Apple does not make the jacks. Apple is merely assembles parts from various manufacturers into a computer. Going around screaming "Apple breaks standards to screw its customers" is pointless and only shows your ignorance. Apple is likely only one of the many companies using these jacks, even if it's the only one using them in notebook computers.
Second, this problem is not unique to combined microphone/speaker jacks. This has been an issue with headphone jacks on many devices including PC laptops for a long time. No part can be made exactly the same 100% of the time, and sometimes there are instances where a few plugs don't work well with a few jacks. If this happens to you, try using other headphones in the same jack or the same headphone in different jacks and return/exchange whichever product seems to be causing the problem.
That said, that's not to say Apple products are perfect. Remember those discolored Core Duo Macbooks? Manufacturing defects happen and no one is immune to them. Flipping out when they do is counter productive though. Products ship with a warranty for a reason: use them.
@cnocbui: while it is likely the plug was up to spec when it was brand new, a worn plug is almost definitely not. That doesn't mean the jack is perfect, but your argument against it is lacking.
What a load of crap, technology is about the now and tomorrow. Not the yesterday and last century. Who cares if crap isnt backward compatible, This isnt just Apple, or Microsoft. Its any good electronics company. New products arent there to support products of yesterday they are here to support the products of tomorrow. Thats how products move foward. Really for all the pain people are giving themselves with this headphone issue they could just buy a new compatible pair of Apple In Ear and live happily ever after. Apple is what I see as A perfectly closed Technological Ecosystem made to grow for tomorow not preserve for today. Both in the consumer spending aspect, and in the operations aspect of the business. If you dont like that maybe you need to buy different products.but personaly that is what I like about this company. But seriously whoever is concerned with crap dating over a decade old deserves to go back under their rock, and give apple, microsoft, and all other electronic companies trying to push new things out the door a break because thats the world today. and I embrace that fully
You sound like you are in marketing, you display the appropriate level of intelligence. I hope the next Apple wundermachina you buy just goes 'whir -click- whir - beeeep' when you try and insert a CD and displays a message on the screen 'please use iTunes - sucker'.
The Apple bashing in this thread is really pathetic and really shows how little people know what they are talking about.
First, Apple does not make the jacks. Apple is merely assembles parts from various manufacturers into a computer. Going around screaming "Apple breaks standards to screw its customers" is pointless and only shows your ignorance. Apple is likely only one of the many companies using these jacks, even if it's the only one using them in notebook computers.
Actually, I think you will find in this case, it is an Apple apologist who doesn't know what they are talking about. I will give you a clue, think back to the original article at the head of this discussion, there were some trivial utterances about extra contacts and microphones. Have a wild guess as to who specified them and caused them to be manufactured thus.
Quote:
@cnocbui: while it is likely the plug was up to spec when it was brand new, a worn plug is almost definitely not. That doesn't mean the jack is perfect, but your argument against it is lacking.
Au contraire, mes amis. The amount of wear is probably on the order of microns. It works in ipods, DAT decks, in it's unimatch 1/4" fitting, my Powerbook G4, an iMac - everything. It is only the Macbook that rejects it like a shy little virgin. You seem to have missed the bit where I stated that this problem occurs with other plugs as well.
The "only removed from entry level model" remark made it sound like he meant the entry level MacBook. I wasn't aware that the entire MacBook line was suddenly demoted to "entry level".
But I guess that's semantics.
I more accurate statement would have been "only removed from Apple's entry level notebook line" but that seems excessive I doubt I would have stated it in such a way. As for the definition of "entry level", that is very relative. No Mac notebooks are entry level compared to most PC notebooks sold, but when comparing the MacBook to the MacBook Pro, every single one could easily be deemed entry level. Then again, even the term "entry level" is a known fallacy as their is no requirement to start with a lower cost or performing MacBook when switching to Macs, but we all know what is meant since the definition has evolved to include a broader scope.
These earphones were specifically designed to work with the 1st gen iPhone recessed jack. I have n o problem with them on my 1st gen Iphone or my 3G iPhone. When plugged into my Macbook Pro they come slightly unplugged at the slightest touch or movement.
Comments
To me, this seems like fertile ground for cognitive dissonance.
I don't understand why it's not a non-standard jack when most standard plugs don't fit into it without an adapter and added risk of damage that an unnecessary adapter entails.
The jack itself is standard, with respect to electrical connections. The housing around the jack was what prevented many plugs from fitting into it. Specs don't cover that.
No cognitive dissonance here, and I did say it was a stupid design.
I don't see how that follows at all. The 1/8" audio jack has been a standard for over three decades. It stands to reason there would be a plethora of peripherals out there using it and it's incumbent on any manufacturer to ensure their jack works with those existing devices. It's a case of lighting a candle vs. cursing the darkness. I fear Apple has chosen the latter instead of the former, leaving its customers in limbo.
I don't know what the heck you are talking about here.
My point was that out of a group of plugs that all seem on visual inspection to be "standard" plugs, if the socket correctly captures some plugs but other plugs still have some "play" in them after being captured, that it's far more likely that the plugs with the "play" are under-designed for the socket. If the socket itself were under-designed, then it would successfully capture the ones that now show some "play" and the other plugs would not be captured, or not fit at all.
Nothing is certain at this point, but it seems far more likely that Apple's plugs are precisely designed to the spec and that the other plugs are slightly smaller (by microns), or slightly misshaped (rounded edges), and thus after capture still have that "play." This is typical Apple to make their plug have tolerances that are smaller than average, but technically it would still be a case of them sticking to the spec more exactly than the others so it's kind of hard to fault them for it. Generally speaking Apple's customers are picky perfectionists that actually *want* the plugs to be designed with tight adherence to the spec.
Not sure what the candle comment is about at all unless you are suggesting that they make a crappy socket to match all the crappy plugs out there.
OSX anyone? Not that compatible with os9. And "classic" was a farce... so few applications worked when they were needed.
and for the record, Microsoft has compatibility options that work well back to programs from 98. Of course, that makes for a BLOATED OS that has a lot of problems... but that isn't the point. your statement is incredibly off-base.
What a load of crap, technology is about the now and tomorrow. Not the yesterday and last century. Who cares if crap isnt backward compatible, This isnt just Apple, or Microsoft. Its any good electronics company. New products arent there to support products of yesterday they are here to support the products of tomorrow. Thats how products move foward. Really for all the pain people are giving themselves with this headphone issue they could just buy a new compatible pair of Apple In Ear and live happily ever after. Apple is what I see as A perfectly closed Technological Ecosystem made to grow for tomorow not preserve for today. Both in the consumer spending aspect, and in the operations aspect of the business. If you dont like that maybe you need to buy different products.but personaly that is what I like about this company. But seriously whoever is concerned with crap dating over a decade old deserves to go back under their rock, and give apple, microsoft, and all other electronic companies trying to push new
Actually, the original iPhone jack did adhere to the spec. The problem was that the spec does not cover the plastic bit, just the plug itself.
It would probably be fairer in that case to describe the plugs with the giant plastic housing that would not fit into the iPhone as "non-standard" than it would be to describe Apple's plugs as such even though as I said, I don't think the spec covers the housing.
I agree that such slight variations from the spec are pretty common though and Apple could be faulted for not making allowances for that.
The earphones didn't work with the iPhone and it required an adapter. That is non standard.
I don't give a shit if it's the phone or the plug I still had to buy an adapter.
FUCK YEAH.....My 100th Post.
CHEERS EVERYONE!!!!
Well done, you're a legend.
I have a Late '08 MBP and have used it with a number of headphones... from logitech to sennheiser with absolutely no problems at all. I wonder if this is brand specific problem or if there are other issues. Seriously ALL of my headphones snap in really nice... tight... no wiggle room... just a solid and tight connection.
Same here. NO problems with multiple standard stereo jacks and no wiggle at all.
This is obviously an isolated problem with SOME Macbooks having defective jacks.
Well done, you're a legend.
Thanks....your right I am a legend...perhaps in my own mind...but a legend, never the less.
TEQUILA FOR ME AND MY AMIGOS!!!
FW400 taken out of the new MacBook lineup. If you had a FW400 Storage device you would be screwed? Yes or No?
No (only removed from entry level model)
You're likely thinking of keyboard backlight, not Firewire. Firewire was removed from both MB models.
Not sure what the candle comment is about at all unless you are suggesting that they make a crappy socket to match all the crappy plugs out there.
Yes, that actually is what I'm suggesting, though I'm not sure "crappy" necessarily applies. It seems to me that perhaps Apple could have made a socket that works with a larger % of headphones. Funny how SanDisk and Microsoft and IBM/Lenovo and all the other portable electronics manufacturers can make such jacks. But somehow Apple is absolved from having to perform the same engineering miracle? Rigidly adhering to specs (cursing the darkness) instead of engineering for the real world and already-in-existence peripherals (lighting a candle) is short-sighted and consumer-hostile.
You're likely thinking of keyboard backlight, not Firewire. Firewire was removed from both MB models.
The MacBook Pro also contains the MacBook moniker, which is what was implied by the comment. Though, to be technical, even the MBP lost FW400, though it does still contain FW800.
The MacBook Pro also contains the MacBook moniker, which is what was implied by the comment. Though, to be technical, even the MBP lost FW400, though it does still contain FW800.
The "only removed from entry level model" remark made it sound like he meant the entry level MacBook. I wasn't aware that the entire MacBook line was suddenly demoted to "entry level".
But I guess that's semantics.
And the fact that even one adapter that is not made by Apple works as well as the Apple plugs does, kind of puts the lie to the whole premise as well.
The plug is "captured" by means of the knob at the end connecting to embedded leaf springs at the back of the socket. If the socket as designed captures some plugs but not others it kind of implies that the plugs are at fault, not the socket.
Apple's plugs look pretty standard to me, and Apple has a history of exacting adherence to specs in things like this, so what are the odds that Apple's plugs are going to turn out to be exactly on the mark and that the plugs in question that don't work are actually just poorly made?
High IMO.
I have this wretched problem using my high end Sony headphones with it's Sony plug. Now tell me, who do you think has made more 3.5mm stereo plugs and sockets, Sony or Apple? The Apple socket is out of spec. The Sony plug is not poorly made. As is so often the case, you are wrong.
You might notice from the gold having largely worn off the shaft that, this plug has seen a bit of use - over a decade of constant use. No other piece of equipment during that decade has exhibited any problem whatsoever accepting and retaining this plug - except the Macbook with it's hissy headphone output and it's wonderful propensity to loose all output via the speakers if you speed up a video in VLC. Not to mention the inability to connect properly with either of my blutooth phones.
It exhibits the same premature ejection problem with the other plugs I have tried as well.
First, Apple does not make the jacks. Apple is merely assembles parts from various manufacturers into a computer. Going around screaming "Apple breaks standards to screw its customers" is pointless and only shows your ignorance. Apple is likely only one of the many companies using these jacks, even if it's the only one using them in notebook computers.
Second, this problem is not unique to combined microphone/speaker jacks. This has been an issue with headphone jacks on many devices including PC laptops for a long time. No part can be made exactly the same 100% of the time, and sometimes there are instances where a few plugs don't work well with a few jacks. If this happens to you, try using other headphones in the same jack or the same headphone in different jacks and return/exchange whichever product seems to be causing the problem.
That said, that's not to say Apple products are perfect. Remember those discolored Core Duo Macbooks? Manufacturing defects happen and no one is immune to them. Flipping out when they do is counter productive though. Products ship with a warranty for a reason: use them.
@cnocbui: while it is likely the plug was up to spec when it was brand new, a worn plug is almost definitely not. That doesn't mean the jack is perfect, but your argument against it is lacking.
What a load of crap, technology is about the now and tomorrow. Not the yesterday and last century. Who cares if crap isnt backward compatible, This isnt just Apple, or Microsoft. Its any good electronics company. New products arent there to support products of yesterday they are here to support the products of tomorrow. Thats how products move foward. Really for all the pain people are giving themselves with this headphone issue they could just buy a new compatible pair of Apple In Ear and live happily ever after. Apple is what I see as A perfectly closed Technological Ecosystem made to grow for tomorow not preserve for today. Both in the consumer spending aspect, and in the operations aspect of the business. If you dont like that maybe you need to buy different products.but personaly that is what I like about this company. But seriously whoever is concerned with crap dating over a decade old deserves to go back under their rock, and give apple, microsoft, and all other electronic companies trying to push new
You sound like you are in marketing, you display the appropriate level of intelligence. I hope the next Apple wundermachina you buy just goes 'whir -click- whir - beeeep' when you try and insert a CD and displays a message on the screen 'please use iTunes - sucker'.
The Apple bashing in this thread is really pathetic and really shows how little people know what they are talking about.
First, Apple does not make the jacks. Apple is merely assembles parts from various manufacturers into a computer. Going around screaming "Apple breaks standards to screw its customers" is pointless and only shows your ignorance. Apple is likely only one of the many companies using these jacks, even if it's the only one using them in notebook computers.
Actually, I think you will find in this case, it is an Apple apologist who doesn't know what they are talking about. I will give you a clue, think back to the original article at the head of this discussion, there were some trivial utterances about extra contacts and microphones. Have a wild guess as to who specified them and caused them to be manufactured thus.
@cnocbui: while it is likely the plug was up to spec when it was brand new, a worn plug is almost definitely not. That doesn't mean the jack is perfect, but your argument against it is lacking.
Au contraire, mes amis. The amount of wear is probably on the order of microns. It works in ipods, DAT decks, in it's unimatch 1/4" fitting, my Powerbook G4, an iMac - everything. It is only the Macbook that rejects it like a shy little virgin. You seem to have missed the bit where I stated that this problem occurs with other plugs as well.
The "only removed from entry level model" remark made it sound like he meant the entry level MacBook. I wasn't aware that the entire MacBook line was suddenly demoted to "entry level".
But I guess that's semantics.
I more accurate statement would have been "only removed from Apple's entry level notebook line" but that seems excessive I doubt I would have stated it in such a way. As for the definition of "entry level", that is very relative. No Mac notebooks are entry level compared to most PC notebooks sold, but when comparing the MacBook to the MacBook Pro, every single one could easily be deemed entry level. Then again, even the term "entry level" is a known fallacy as their is no requirement to start with a lower cost or performing MacBook when switching to Macs, but we all know what is meant since the definition has evolved to include a broader scope.
These earphones were specifically designed to work with the 1st gen iPhone recessed jack. I have n o problem with them on my 1st gen Iphone or my 3G iPhone. When plugged into my Macbook Pro they come slightly unplugged at the slightest touch or movement.
I'm really disappointed...