Actually, I think you will find in this case, it is an Apple apologist who doesn't know what they are talking about. I will give you a clue, think back to the original article at the head of this discussion, there were some trivial utterances about extra contacts and microphones. Have a wild guess as to who specified them and caused them to be manufactured thus.
Again, Apple isn't the only one using jacks like that. Most camera's have an A/V out jacks that have 3 contacts: one for video, 2 for stereo audio. The jacks are of the same type. They are just mapped to carry different signals when added to the circuit board. They can even carry data. I used to have an old gameshark that used a similar plug to download cheat codes over a USB cable from my Windows PC.
Quote:
Au contraire, mes amis. The amount of wear is probably on the order of microns. It works in ipods, DAT decks, in it's unimatch 1/4" fitting, my Powerbook G4, an iMac - everything. It is only the Macbook that rejects it like a shy little virgin. You seem to have missed the bit where I stated that this problem occurs with other plugs as well.
Doesn't matter. Anything that is worn is likely no longer up to spec regardless if it still works or not. Like I said, it doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with the jack. Everything can be wrong with the jack and your headphone plug is likely still not up to spec. Hell, even if it were brand new, there is still a chance that it would not be up to spec because no manufacturer is perfect. Just recently Seagate had to recall a bunch of hard drives because of a goof up, and they have been making fantastic hard drives for years.
Of course just because there is a manufacturing defect doesn't mean it will be noticeable in appearance or function. Most things manufactured aren't 100% perfect but work anyway. It only becomes a problem when they have to be used with another product that is likely not 100% perfect either. If you're having trouble with all the headphones you have, new or old, sony or no name brand, then it's likely the jack in your Macbook and you should return/exchange it. However, if your favorite headphones don't work but others do, you should return or exchange them. There's no sure way to know who is at fault since not everyone is having a problem, and those who don't have problems are the least vocal. This is just common sense and does not make anyone an Apple apologist.
Doesn't matter. Anything that is worn is likely no longer up to spec regardless if it still works or not. Like I said, it doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with the jack. Everything can be wrong with the jack and your headphone plug is likely still not up to spec. Hell, even if it were brand new, there is still a chance that it would not be up to spec because no manufacturer is perfect.
Nothing is perfect, but the plug / jack are so simple that it shouldn't be a big deal if it's slightly worn or not, slightly out of spec or not. It's nothing like a hard drive. The jacks can be made to accept plugs with plenty of tolerance to operate properly, whether they be high precision high dollar headphones or some cheap no-brand. To not work with a well-designed jack, it would have to be physically damaged or visibly defective. I don't even remember hearing of headphone jacks in a new product that don't work properly with headphones except these two Apple products.
You sound like you are in marketing, you display the appropriate level of intelligence. I hope the next Apple wundermachina you buy just goes 'whir -click- whir - beeeep' when you try and insert a CD and displays a message on the screen 'please use iTunes - sucker'.
Well Im actualy in Mass Communications, but I do have a thing for marketing. As far as your first half of the comment im not sure if im suppose to say thank you or F you. And for the second part im even more confused considering my CD were it to be music would start in iTunes............ so uhhhhh. Thanks or FKYU either or, depending on your intentions.
I have this wretched problem using my high end Sony headphones with it's Sony plug. Now tell me, who do you think has made more 3.5mm stereo plugs and sockets, Sony or Apple? The Apple socket is out of spec. The Sony plug is not poorly made. As is so often the case, you are wrong. ...
Look, you're obviously very upset or something, but I don't think there is any need for this kind of hatred directed my way.
Everything I said, I posed as probabilities and opinions, not facts. Your the one that seems to think you have proof of some kind of gross malfeasance although you do seem to have a grudge of some kind in regards Apple.
If you think you have a case then go right ahead and sue or whatever, I couldn't care less either way.
The "only removed from entry level model" remark made it sound like he meant the entry level MacBook. I wasn't aware that the entire MacBook line was suddenly demoted to "entry level".
But I guess that's semantics.
It's not semantics, although I could have said "entry level notebook" line as mentioned to eliminate confusion. I was replying to the OP though who was (erroneously) talking about the "MacBook lineup" so I replied in kind.
The OP said FireWire was "taken out of the new MacBook lineup."
In fact there are 3 notebooks in the "MacBook lineup" (notebook lineup), only one of which (the cheapest, smallest one) had Firewire removed. I think it's fair to refer to that product as "entry level" especially when the others are labelled "Pro."
The OP was wrong on almost everything he said and was referring to the products more wrongly (wronger?) than me was.
I just tested jiggling the audio jack in every direction and I have it hooked up to my surround sound and nothing happened. It just stayed connected. no random disconnection.
It's not semantics, although I could have said "entry level notebook" line as mentioned to eliminate confusion. I was replying to the OP though who was (erroneously) talking about the "MacBook lineup" so I replied in kind.
The OP said FireWire was "taken out of the new MacBook lineup."
In fact there are 3 notebooks in the "MacBook lineup" (notebook lineup), only one of which (the cheapest, smallest one) had Firewire removed. I think it's fair to refer to that product as "entry level" especially when the others are labelled "Pro."
The OP was wrong on almost everything he said and was referring to the products more wrongly (wronger?) than me was.
Does nobody realize the entry level MB (or the entry level of the entry level MB aka the cheap white one) still has FW400?
What is it with Apple monkeying around with mini jack connections? First the recessed iPhone jack... then the 6th gen iPod Classic messed up 3rd party video cables... now the MacBook (and perhaps the MacBook Pro too)?
While I cringe looking at the usual design of PC laptops and the unnecessary gaggle of connectivity options... It's getting to be ridiculous the number of extra cables and connector the average Apple laptop - sorry, I meant "notebook" needs.
For a company that does so many ingenious things they sure get tripped up by a lot of no brainer stuff like basic mini jack design which has been around for decades.
Apple didn't, the 4 conductor jack was in use long ago and Apple did not invent it. There are many manufactures using the 4 conductor jack. Once that jack went into use it was inevitable that some old 3 conductor jack could fail to connect to the 4 conductor jacks under some conditions. Newer 3 conductor plug won't have the problem since the manufacture will design then in a way that won't cause problems in a 4 conductor jack.
So why is this Apples fault? It's not, if you have a device with an older plug you'll just have to accept the requirement of an adapter. Believe you me that you're going to see this with other manufactures using the 4 conductor jack.
You can complain to the designers but that will do you no good. Technology changes and sometime older devices will fall by the way side. It's the nature of the beast. It's too bad but that's tough.
Apple didn't, the 4 conductor jack was in use long ago and Apple did not invent it. There are many manufactures using the 4 conductor jack. Once that jack went into use it was inevitable that some old 3 conductor jack could fail to connect to the 4 conductor jacks under some conditions.
Can you explain that in better detail? I really don't see how that's possible if even mildly competent people designed the jack.
A few owners of Apple's new unibody notebooks are experiencing backwards compatibility issues with the units' redesigned audio jacks, which offer a snug connection for the company's latest headphones with integrated microphones at the expense of a few legacy stereo headsets and speaker connectors.
Threads about the issue began turning up on Apple's Discussions support boards back in November, shortly after the new unibody MacBook and MacBook Pro began shipping. Customers of both models (1, 2) reported that when wearing non-Apple headphones, even the slightest bump or movement of the cord -- such as turning one's head to the side -- would result in a disconnection that caused audio to be rerouted back through the notebook's built-in speakers.
For those connecting external speakers to their MacBook, the mere act of setting a book down on the desk next to the computer would reportedly disrupt the connection. Upon closer inspection, it turns out that some 1/8th-inch miniplugs are left with a tad more wiggle room while in receptacle, namely those lacking a fourth conductor.
"When a jackplug is inserted into the socket there is a degree of play in the socket," wrote forum user movetolearn. "Fully pushed in...it works. Give a gentle pull, the plug moves back out maybe 0.5mm and, even though the plug stays in the socket, the sound comes out of the speakers."
As time went on and posters tested additional playback devices, they discovered longer plugs with four contacts and three separator rings would sit firmly and securely, while traditional stereo jacks with three contacts and only two separator rings resulted in a loose connection.
"One thing I notice is that my iPhone 3G headset works fine," wrote user Toronto-Ty. "What I am thinking is that since the plug has integrated stereo l/r and mic, there are 3 plastic bands around the metal plug, thus creating 4 metal sections. The fact that the headphone jack on the new MacBook is integrated mic as well, is what I feel the problem might be."
The same poster later reported a secure connection using Apple's in-ear headphones with mic. He also claims to have e-mailed Steve Jobs about the matter, only to receive a response from the company co-founder essentially telling him he was "wrong, literally."
Last year the company transitioned a number of its headphone jacks to quad-conductor jacks with microphone capabilities. Users who are experiencing the loose connection issue with third-party headphones on their new MacBooks may want to explore iFrogz $4 adapter solution suggested by one forum member.
For more on the differences between Apple's various audio and video cable connectors, see the article titled Using iPod & iPhone Video Out: Background and In-Depth Review.
Take this as a tiny part of the lesson we all probably know by now:
DON'T BUY 1st GEN HARDWARE!!!
I know better than to PAY Apple to beta test their hardware. Rev.A Macs ALWAYS have some weirdnesses you have to struggle with, whether it's hardware or software. And yes, I've made the mistake a few times. \\It's better to buy the LAST revision of a Mac with a mature and stable design and use it until the second or third revision of the next version.
My June 2007 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz had a total video failure the week before Xmas (Dec '08) a few days before a big deadline! (Merry Xmas!) I bought a new early 2008 model 2.6GHz MBP and NOT the unibody MBP for exactly that reason. The stupid glossy screen didn't help either.
I just don't get why Apple makes some of these brain dead design decisions, when everything else is so well thought out.
BTW... HDMI supports screen resolutions no higher than 1920 x 1080, so it limits the monitors you can use.
Does nobody realize the entry level MB (or the entry level of the entry level MB aka the cheap white one) still has FW400?
why would they actually find out what they are talking about? The only Apple laptop currently sold that don't have Firewire, is the aluminum Macbook. The white Macbook (even the new one with the Geforce 9400s) and all the Macbook Pros all have Firewire, and can run firewire 400 or both 400/800 devices.
The few people that want Firewire in their Macbook are mad because they have to spend less money to get one with Firewire, and have to put up with a plastic case.
I have tried 11 different stereo plug devices in my Macbook Pro (unibody late 2008) jack now.. mostly headphones, and a few speakers. Only 2 things I've plug in were Apple branded... and they all work just fine, no problems at all in any way... Maybe its a manufacturing defect on some Macbooks?
If this is true, I have a big problem with Steve's response. If this does use a 4-conductor jack as Timon suggests, Apple should have explained this.
What's to explain? Video iPods and iPhone 3G's have used the 4 conductor jack for some time now so it's not new to Apple products. I've not read about any problems with these jacks in the iPods or iPhones.
It could be however that Apple is using a different manufacture/model for the jack in question that has a problem or they just ran into a batch of bad jacks. If this is the case I would think it will get sorted out over time.
Comments
Actually, I think you will find in this case, it is an Apple apologist who doesn't know what they are talking about. I will give you a clue, think back to the original article at the head of this discussion, there were some trivial utterances about extra contacts and microphones. Have a wild guess as to who specified them and caused them to be manufactured thus.
Again, Apple isn't the only one using jacks like that. Most camera's have an A/V out jacks that have 3 contacts: one for video, 2 for stereo audio. The jacks are of the same type. They are just mapped to carry different signals when added to the circuit board. They can even carry data. I used to have an old gameshark that used a similar plug to download cheat codes over a USB cable from my Windows PC.
Au contraire, mes amis. The amount of wear is probably on the order of microns. It works in ipods, DAT decks, in it's unimatch 1/4" fitting, my Powerbook G4, an iMac - everything. It is only the Macbook that rejects it like a shy little virgin. You seem to have missed the bit where I stated that this problem occurs with other plugs as well.
Doesn't matter. Anything that is worn is likely no longer up to spec regardless if it still works or not. Like I said, it doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with the jack. Everything can be wrong with the jack and your headphone plug is likely still not up to spec. Hell, even if it were brand new, there is still a chance that it would not be up to spec because no manufacturer is perfect. Just recently Seagate had to recall a bunch of hard drives because of a goof up, and they have been making fantastic hard drives for years.
Of course just because there is a manufacturing defect doesn't mean it will be noticeable in appearance or function. Most things manufactured aren't 100% perfect but work anyway. It only becomes a problem when they have to be used with another product that is likely not 100% perfect either. If you're having trouble with all the headphones you have, new or old, sony or no name brand, then it's likely the jack in your Macbook and you should return/exchange it. However, if your favorite headphones don't work but others do, you should return or exchange them. There's no sure way to know who is at fault since not everyone is having a problem, and those who don't have problems are the least vocal. This is just common sense and does not make anyone an Apple apologist.
Doesn't matter. Anything that is worn is likely no longer up to spec regardless if it still works or not. Like I said, it doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with the jack. Everything can be wrong with the jack and your headphone plug is likely still not up to spec. Hell, even if it were brand new, there is still a chance that it would not be up to spec because no manufacturer is perfect.
Nothing is perfect, but the plug / jack are so simple that it shouldn't be a big deal if it's slightly worn or not, slightly out of spec or not. It's nothing like a hard drive. The jacks can be made to accept plugs with plenty of tolerance to operate properly, whether they be high precision high dollar headphones or some cheap no-brand. To not work with a well-designed jack, it would have to be physically damaged or visibly defective. I don't even remember hearing of headphone jacks in a new product that don't work properly with headphones except these two Apple products.
You sound like you are in marketing, you display the appropriate level of intelligence. I hope the next Apple wundermachina you buy just goes 'whir -click- whir - beeeep' when you try and insert a CD and displays a message on the screen 'please use iTunes - sucker'.
Well Im actualy in Mass Communications, but I do have a thing for marketing. As far as your first half of the comment im not sure if im suppose to say thank you or F you. And for the second part im even more confused considering my CD were it to be music would start in iTunes............ so uhhhhh. Thanks or FKYU either or, depending on your intentions.
what a bunch of fucking morons, just don't push it all the way in. If you push it in and you fee the 'click' stop pushing it.
My iMac 2.1ghz G5 and iMac intel core duo and my current Alu iMac are exactly the same with some 3.5mm jacks.
Get over it.
Wow. Nice comment. Your series of iMac computers don't have a sound output jack with a 4-pin connector plug. So now who is the fucking moron?
Wow. Nice comment. Your series of iMac computers don't have a sound output jack with a 4-pin connector plug. So now who is the fucking moron?
No they don't but they are non standard as they are also used for optical connections.
People should Read the Manual before moaning about things that dont fit..
I have this wretched problem using my high end Sony headphones with it's Sony plug. Now tell me, who do you think has made more 3.5mm stereo plugs and sockets, Sony or Apple? The Apple socket is out of spec. The Sony plug is not poorly made. As is so often the case, you are wrong. ...
Look, you're obviously very upset or something, but I don't think there is any need for this kind of hatred directed my way.
Everything I said, I posed as probabilities and opinions, not facts. Your the one that seems to think you have proof of some kind of gross malfeasance although you do seem to have a grudge of some kind in regards Apple.
If you think you have a case then go right ahead and sue or whatever, I couldn't care less either way.
The "only removed from entry level model" remark made it sound like he meant the entry level MacBook. I wasn't aware that the entire MacBook line was suddenly demoted to "entry level".
But I guess that's semantics.
It's not semantics, although I could have said "entry level notebook" line as mentioned to eliminate confusion. I was replying to the OP though who was (erroneously) talking about the "MacBook lineup" so I replied in kind.
The OP said FireWire was "taken out of the new MacBook lineup."
In fact there are 3 notebooks in the "MacBook lineup" (notebook lineup), only one of which (the cheapest, smallest one) had Firewire removed. I think it's fair to refer to that product as "entry level" especially when the others are labelled "Pro."
The OP was wrong on almost everything he said and was referring to the products more wrongly (wronger?) than me was.
It's not semantics, although I could have said "entry level notebook" line as mentioned to eliminate confusion. I was replying to the OP though who was (erroneously) talking about the "MacBook lineup" so I replied in kind.
The OP said FireWire was "taken out of the new MacBook lineup."
In fact there are 3 notebooks in the "MacBook lineup" (notebook lineup), only one of which (the cheapest, smallest one) had Firewire removed. I think it's fair to refer to that product as "entry level" especially when the others are labelled "Pro."
The OP was wrong on almost everything he said and was referring to the products more wrongly (wronger?) than me was.
Does nobody realize the entry level MB (or the entry level of the entry level MB aka the cheap white one) still has FW400?
What is it with Apple monkeying around with mini jack connections? First the recessed iPhone jack... then the 6th gen iPod Classic messed up 3rd party video cables... now the MacBook (and perhaps the MacBook Pro too)?
While I cringe looking at the usual design of PC laptops and the unnecessary gaggle of connectivity options... It's getting to be ridiculous the number of extra cables and connector the average Apple laptop - sorry, I meant "notebook" needs.
For a company that does so many ingenious things they sure get tripped up by a lot of no brainer stuff like basic mini jack design which has been around for decades.
Apple didn't, the 4 conductor jack was in use long ago and Apple did not invent it. There are many manufactures using the 4 conductor jack. Once that jack went into use it was inevitable that some old 3 conductor jack could fail to connect to the 4 conductor jacks under some conditions. Newer 3 conductor plug won't have the problem since the manufacture will design then in a way that won't cause problems in a 4 conductor jack.
So why is this Apples fault? It's not, if you have a device with an older plug you'll just have to accept the requirement of an adapter. Believe you me that you're going to see this with other manufactures using the 4 conductor jack.
You can complain to the designers but that will do you no good. Technology changes and sometime older devices will fall by the way side. It's the nature of the beast. It's too bad but that's tough.
Apple didn't, the 4 conductor jack was in use long ago and Apple did not invent it. There are many manufactures using the 4 conductor jack. Once that jack went into use it was inevitable that some old 3 conductor jack could fail to connect to the 4 conductor jacks under some conditions.
Can you explain that in better detail? I really don't see how that's possible if even mildly competent people designed the jack.
Can you explain that in better detail? I really don't see how that's possible if even mildly competent people designed the jack.
I could but don't have time right now but you can do a little research by googling "4 conductor 3.5mm jack".
A few owners of Apple's new unibody notebooks are experiencing backwards compatibility issues with the units' redesigned audio jacks, which offer a snug connection for the company's latest headphones with integrated microphones at the expense of a few legacy stereo headsets and speaker connectors.
Threads about the issue began turning up on Apple's Discussions support boards back in November, shortly after the new unibody MacBook and MacBook Pro began shipping. Customers of both models (1, 2) reported that when wearing non-Apple headphones, even the slightest bump or movement of the cord -- such as turning one's head to the side -- would result in a disconnection that caused audio to be rerouted back through the notebook's built-in speakers.
For those connecting external speakers to their MacBook, the mere act of setting a book down on the desk next to the computer would reportedly disrupt the connection. Upon closer inspection, it turns out that some 1/8th-inch miniplugs are left with a tad more wiggle room while in receptacle, namely those lacking a fourth conductor.
"When a jackplug is inserted into the socket there is a degree of play in the socket," wrote forum user movetolearn. "Fully pushed in...it works. Give a gentle pull, the plug moves back out maybe 0.5mm and, even though the plug stays in the socket, the sound comes out of the speakers."
As time went on and posters tested additional playback devices, they discovered longer plugs with four contacts and three separator rings would sit firmly and securely, while traditional stereo jacks with three contacts and only two separator rings resulted in a loose connection.
"One thing I notice is that my iPhone 3G headset works fine," wrote user Toronto-Ty. "What I am thinking is that since the plug has integrated stereo l/r and mic, there are 3 plastic bands around the metal plug, thus creating 4 metal sections. The fact that the headphone jack on the new MacBook is integrated mic as well, is what I feel the problem might be."
The same poster later reported a secure connection using Apple's in-ear headphones with mic. He also claims to have e-mailed Steve Jobs about the matter, only to receive a response from the company co-founder essentially telling him he was "wrong, literally."
Last year the company transitioned a number of its headphone jacks to quad-conductor jacks with microphone capabilities. Users who are experiencing the loose connection issue with third-party headphones on their new MacBooks may want to explore iFrogz $4 adapter solution suggested by one forum member.
For more on the differences between Apple's various audio and video cable connectors, see the article titled Using iPod & iPhone Video Out: Background and In-Depth Review.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
If this is true, I have a big problem with Steve's response. If this does use a 4-conductor jack as Timon suggests, Apple should have explained this.
Take this as a tiny part of the lesson we all probably know by now:
DON'T BUY 1st GEN HARDWARE!!!
I know better than to PAY Apple to beta test their hardware. Rev.A Macs ALWAYS have some weirdnesses you have to struggle with, whether it's hardware or software. And yes, I've made the mistake a few times. \\It's better to buy the LAST revision of a Mac with a mature and stable design and use it until the second or third revision of the next version.
My June 2007 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz had a total video failure the week before Xmas (Dec '08) a few days before a big deadline! (Merry Xmas!) I bought a new early 2008 model 2.6GHz MBP and NOT the unibody MBP for exactly that reason. The stupid glossy screen didn't help either.
I just don't get why Apple makes some of these brain dead design decisions, when everything else is so well thought out.
BTW... HDMI supports screen resolutions no higher than 1920 x 1080, so it limits the monitors you can use.
Does nobody realize the entry level MB (or the entry level of the entry level MB aka the cheap white one) still has FW400?
why would they actually find out what they are talking about? The only Apple laptop currently sold that don't have Firewire, is the aluminum Macbook. The white Macbook (even the new one with the Geforce 9400s) and all the Macbook Pros all have Firewire, and can run firewire 400 or both 400/800 devices.
The few people that want Firewire in their Macbook are mad because they have to spend less money to get one with Firewire, and have to put up with a plastic case.
If this is true, I have a big problem with Steve's response. If this does use a 4-conductor jack as Timon suggests, Apple should have explained this.
What's to explain? Video iPods and iPhone 3G's have used the 4 conductor jack for some time now so it's not new to Apple products. I've not read about any problems with these jacks in the iPods or iPhones.
It could be however that Apple is using a different manufacture/model for the jack in question that has a problem or they just ran into a batch of bad jacks. If this is the case I would think it will get sorted out over time.